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View Full Version : Think Twice Before Purchasing a Resale - New DVC Policy Set to Take Effect in March



Maleficent's Dad
01-18-2011, 07:48 AM
Just came across this from DVC News...

Disney Vacation Club is set to unveil a Direct Purchase Benefit program in which some destinations will be withheld from those purchasing points on the secondary market.

Under the new program terms, only points purchased directly through Disney Vacation Club sales agents will be eligible for use toward the Disney Collection, Adventurer Collection and Concierge Collection. These ancillary programs feature destinations such as Disney Cruise Line, Adventures by Disney, the Disneyland Hotel and Paradise Pier in Anaheim, Disney's Polynesian and Grand Floridian resorts at Walt Disney World, international hotels at Disneyland Paris, Tokyo Disneyland and Hong Kong Disneyland and more.

In order for resale contract purchases to be eligible for all Member Getaways, the purchase closing must occur by March 20, 2011. As such, all prior resale purchases will also remain eligible for use toward the full slate of Disney Vacation Club destinations.

Resale point purchases which close after March 20 will be ineligible for use toward the Disney, Adventurer and Concierge Collections. Such resale contracts will be valid only for use at the 11 Disney Vacation Club resorts as well as the World Passport Collection which features trading opportunities through RCI and the Buena Vista Trading Company.

Point origination will be tracked down to the contract level. A DVC member with points acquired via a combination of direct and reseller purchases (acquired after 3/20/11) will only be able to use the direct purchase points toward the Disney, Adventurer and Concierge Collection destinations.

All owners will remain subject to the same booking guidelines for Disney Vacation Club resorts. Reservations can be secured 11 months from arrival at one's Home resort and 7 months from arrival at non-Home resorts regardless of whether the points were purchased directly or via a reseller.

Aurora
01-18-2011, 09:10 AM
Yikes! What a lot of added red tape. The secondary market must be that much of an enormous financial loss for Disney if they're willing to increase the administrative cost and aggravation of tracking this stuff.

I don't really know if these programs are enough of an incentive, though, for people to forego the resale market. Are the differences in price per point enough for people to buy from Disney just for the chance at possibly staying at one of these resorts in the future? I have my doubts.

Goofy4TheWorld
01-18-2011, 09:15 AM
Wow! I am SOOOO glad I decided against buying into the DVC! :party2:

DonLefNY
01-18-2011, 10:24 AM
I've been a member for 10+ years and have never traded into the Disney Collection, Adventurer Collection and Concierge Collection.
I purchased to stay in DVC units.

Hammer
01-18-2011, 10:24 AM
Well, guess I'm not going to buy the additional 50 points I was looking at possibly purchasing! No way I'm going to pay over $20 more per point (as incentives don't count for purchases under 100 points) to buy points through DVC. If they would lower the price of contracts for properties to closer match the prices in the resale market, people wouldn't be so quick to go to a reseller.

DizneyRox
01-18-2011, 11:38 AM
My take?

The value of points on the resale market is going to plummet because of these now devalued points. It might pick up now and until the deadline, but afterwards the value of the points will drop further than they have.

This will allow Disney to buy back contracts at even lower rates than they do now, possibly forcing more to then buy points from Disney.

If anyone has any other insight into why these points would not be eligible for these same perks I'm listening. Remember, these were already sold at higher prices once before by Disney. They got their money already and continue to get maintenance fees on those points.

I do agree though the value of the perks being removed really isn't a big deal. Those are a poor use of points in terms of value.

Aurora
01-18-2011, 03:43 PM
My take?

The value of points on the resale market is going to plummet because of these now devalued points. It might pick up now and until the deadline, but afterwards the value of the points will drop further than they have.

This will allow Disney to buy back contracts at even lower rates than they do now, possibly forcing more to then buy points from Disney.

If anyone has any other insight into why these points would not be eligible for these same perks I'm listening. Remember, these were already sold at higher prices once before by Disney. They got their money already and continue to get maintenance fees on those points.

I do agree though the value of the perks being removed really isn't a big deal. Those are a poor use of points in terms of value.

That's a possibility, but in general, I don't think the "added value" of buying through Disney will be enough of an incentive for most people to buy at dozens per point more. RCI is still in the picture, so I think most buyers will see there's not much value lost by buying resale.

DVC Mike
01-18-2011, 06:18 PM
From DVCmember.com



New Policy Announced for Re-sale Purchases
Disney Vacation Club® has announced a new policy that limits access to certain Member Getaways exchanges for Ownership Interests purchased on the secondary market (also known as the re-sale market).

Under the new policy, Members who purchase from anyone other than Disney Vacation Development, Inc., on or after March 21, 2011, will not be eligible to use those Vacation Points to make reservations within the Concierge Collection, the Disney Collection or the Adventurer Collection. Those Vacation Points will instead be valid only for reservations at Disney Vacation Club resorts, as well as for RCI® exchanges, Club Cordial and Club Intrawest.

The affected collections are special Member benefits programs offered by Disney Vacation Development, Inc., and are not part of Members' Ownership Interests. That said, Members who purchased on the secondary market prior to March 21, 2011, may use those Vacation Points for all Member Getaways.

DVC Mike
01-18-2011, 06:19 PM
From the Orlando Sentinel:



In a bid to buttress its own sales, Disney's time-share business said Tuesday it will impose new restrictions on buyers who purchase their time shares from existing owners — rather than directly from Disney.

A Disney Vacation Club spokeswoman said customers who bought their time shares directly from Disney have requested such a change.

"Our members just felt that that they should get more benefits when they purchase through Disney Vacation Club than those who purchase on the secondary market," spokeswoman Diane Hancock said. She added that the change aligns Disney with other time-share operators who impose similar restrictions on resales.

But some company followers said Disney is trying to prop up its own direct sales, which stumbled during the global recession and credit freeze. Disney reported lower vacation-club sales during its 2010 fiscal year, which ended Oct. 2.

DizneyRox
01-18-2011, 06:51 PM
From the Orlando Sentinel:

...
But some company followers said Disney is trying to prop up its own direct sales, which stumbled during the global recession and credit freeze.
Man, I couldn't even get a proper credit! hehe

faline
01-18-2011, 06:55 PM
We bought resale and I don't think it would prevent us from being resale again - the restrictions they're talking about are ways in which we would be unlikely to use our points. Those who haven't done their research may feel like they're losing something - those who have will likely realize that this is not going to be the best use of points anyway and has minimal impact.

Checkers
01-18-2011, 08:47 PM
We bought resale and I don't think it would prevent us from being resale again - the restrictions they're talking about are ways in which we would be unlikely to use our points. Those who haven't done their research may feel like they're losing something - those who have will likely realize that this is not going to be the best use of points anyway and has minimal impact.

We have a combination of both (resale & direct buy) but I agree with faline, this would not prevent me from buying resale again.

Goofy4TheWorld
01-18-2011, 10:55 PM
The reason I continue to be thrilled that I passed on DVC is because I fear "what's next".

What "benefit" is Disney contractually required to allow no matter what?

Will you always be able to book at the 7 & 11 months windows, are those windows flexible or etched in stone?

What about the right to stay outside your home resort at all, is that untouchable?

Is free parking at your resort a right or just a temporay benefit waiting to be removed?

Way to many of the benefits Disney has used to pitch DVC appear to be written with pencil and may be changed at the drop of a hat (or the drop of a stock price).

Hammer
01-18-2011, 11:33 PM
The reason I continue to be thrilled that I passed on DVC is because I fear "what's next".

What "benefit" is Disney contractually required to allow no matter what?

Will you always be able to book at the 7 & 11 months windows, are those windows flexible or etched in stone?

What about the right to stay outside your home resort at all, is that untouchable?

Is free parking at your resort a right or just a temporay benefit waiting to be removed?

Way to many of the benefits Disney has used to pitch DVC appear to be written with pencil and may be changed at the drop of a hat (or the drop of a stock price).

Exactly! What's to stop DVC from saying that only people who buy through them can book at the 11 month window? I could see them doing that. This move in and of itself does not affect me, but who says the next one won't affect me and my resale purchase.

DizneyRox
01-19-2011, 06:57 AM
That they are now going to be able to differentiate between DVC points and resale is the real problem. Once that change is implemented, the sky is the limit on whatever rules they want to put around it.

As others have said, THIS change isn't that big of a deal, but the fact that it's possible is the real problem. Disney has demonstrated if they can, they will. Especailly if it possibly means increasing profits.

Also, the owner comments about wanting this I bet are a 100% COMPLETE LIE! As I said, the points were at some point purchased from Disney, resale points can't appear on the market by themselves. Disney got the cash for those at that time of sale, Disney's job was done! Who's fault is it that people don't find value in Disney's current offerings at their current prices!?

Ian
01-19-2011, 08:20 AM
Overall, let me say first that I find this change fairly disturbing. Not so much for the change itself, but (as others have said) for what it signals in terms of just how much leeway Disney has with these contracts. It really makes me wonder what else is buried deep in the legalese we all signed up for?

Another thing I find very interesting is this ... although they're trying to claim this was a member driven change, we all know that's baloney. They're doing this to try and drive people to buy points directly from them, because the values are just so disparate between the secondary market and direct from Disney (which, really, should tell you something all by itself).

This is telling, though, in this sense ... Disney just raised prices for Bay Lake Tower points under the pretense that sales were too hot and needed to be cooled off some to allow them to retain enough inventory to sell until the next new property is available.

If that isn't true (as appears to be the case) it really leads me to believe that Disney World has become too dependent on this DVC revenue stream. That's kinda scary.

Now all that being said ...


I've been a member for 10+ years and have never traded into the Disney Collection, Adventurer Collection and Concierge Collection. I purchased to stay in DVC units.ITA. I never have used my points for any of these purposes and I probably never will. This change, by itself, would not stop me from buying points resale.

Goofy4TheWorld
01-19-2011, 08:27 AM
Press release from the future...


In response to member feedback, Disney Vacation Club members who purchased directly from Disney Vacation Development, Inc will receive additional perks while staying at a Disney Vacation Club resort using points. Under the new benefit program direct members will be provided Quilted Northern 3-ply toilet paper for use during their stay (scented rolls available upon request). Indirect members may, upon request, receive 2 rolls of Scott’s single-ply toilet paper for each 7-day period of stay. As part of Disney’s Green Initiative members receiving Scott’s single-ply toilet paper will also receive a special dispensing device, developed by Disney Imagineering in conjunction with Jiminy Cricket, which will dispense Scott’s single-ply paper one sheet at a time.

Indirect members wishing to reserve their paper allotment are encouraged to make this request 11 months in advance as supplies may be limited. Direct members need not make any requests unless you prefer scented paper.

Thank you and have a magical vacation!

**(3-ply toilet paper not available within the Concierge Collection, the Disney Collection or the Adventurer Collection)

I really should get to work....

laprana
01-19-2011, 09:55 AM
I'm with everyone else who has said this change really doesn't affect them...it really doesn't affect me either because, so far, we have only ever used our points to stay at DVC resorts. However, we have talked about using them for a trip to DL and staying at the DL Hotel. We've purchased our points directly from Disney, so, for now at least, that's still a possibility for us. But who's to say that won't change in the future? Who knows? :confused: We've also talked about adding a small contract through resale in the future, if we could find the right one. While this change doesn't make me rethink purchasing resale, it does make me pause and wonder what other changes could be coming down the pike that really could make buying resale a bad idea for us.

What bothers me about all of this is that Disney is making this out to be a "benefit" for its members who purchase their points directly. :huh: It's not a benefit to them, it's a punishment to those who purchase resale. There's no extra added benefit to direct purchasers that wasn't there before...it's just that Disney hasn't taken it away from direct purchasers, yet.

I also think that saying this "is what the members wanted" is a load of bull. Are the majority of DVC members really worried and concerned about someone who purchased resale being able to take an Adventures by Disney trip or staying at the Poly? I really highly doubt it. I'm surprised Disney hasn't said that this is a result of one of their "surveys." :rolleyes:

Ian
01-19-2011, 10:16 AM
I also think that saying this "is what the members wanted" is a load of bull. Are the majority of DVC members really worried and concerned about someone who purchased resale being able to take an Adventures by Disney trip or staying at the Poly? I really highly doubt it. I'm surprised Disney hasn't said that this is a result of one of their "surveys." :rolleyes:Yeah, I don't think there's any doubt really. There's absolutey no reason for anyone to care who owns DVC points or how they use them. 200 points bought by someone resale can only go as far as the same points bought by someone from Disney. It's almost absurd to try and claim members wanted this.

The only possible even tenuous connection I could see is that I do believe DVC members have indicated they want more perks ... it wouldn't shock me if Disney twisted those survey results around to support this decision.

Aurora
01-19-2011, 03:39 PM
The only possible even tenuous connection I could see is that I do believe DVC members have indicated they want more perks ... it wouldn't shock me if Disney twisted those survey results around to support this decision.

That is EXACTLY what i was thinking, Ian. I'm sure a light bulb went off over someone's head.

And per your above comment:


If that isn't true (as appears to be the case) it really leads me to believe that Disney World has become too dependent on this DVC revenue stream. That's kinda scary.

You really haven't thought before that WDW has become too dependent on DVC? Between 1990 and 2000, Disney opened 11 regular WDW resorts, 2 DVC resorts at Disney World, a theme park gate and a water park.

Between 2000 and 2010, they opened 2 regular resorts and FIVE DVC resorts at WDW, no theme parks and no water parks. I think they've known which side their bread's been buttered on for quite awhile.

Ian
01-19-2011, 04:07 PM
You really haven't thought before that WDW has become too dependent on DVC? Between 1990 and 2000, Disney opened 11 regular WDW resorts, 2 DVC resorts at Disney World, a theme park gate and a water park.

Between 2000 and 2010, they opened 2 regular resorts and FIVE DVC resorts at WDW, no theme parks and no water parks. I think they've known which side their bread's been buttered on for quite awhile.Wow ... that's pretty shocking when you put it out there like that.

And yeah ... I mean I've known that they've sort of become addicted to the DVC gravy train, but I'm starting to suspect that the house of cards in WDW is becoming unstable. I feel like they've painted themselves into a corner a bit, what with the crazy prices and declining service and merchandise quality. Their struggles pushing food and merch are pretty well documented and they were very dependent on that revenue stream.

DizneyRox
01-19-2011, 04:27 PM
I don't think it's rocket science really...

DVC is geared towards repeat visitors. There are now 4000+ rooms on property for DVC guests, many of which have no urgent need to spend like crazy on souvies and even buy Disney food. They will be back ad probably sooner than later. It's almost 1/6 of the rooms available on property...

I'd be surprised if that doesn't have the potential to make a significant impact on the merch and restaurant sales at any given time. The very nature of DVC affords people the opportunity to not have to spend as much on food, etc. We've found that we can still have a great time just staying at the resort, and others figured that out well before us.

The more they build out DVC, the more of an impact it can potentially have on everything else. Now that I think about it, my spending on property probably went down around the same time we bought into DVC. I can't really say that they are connected, but I wouldn't second guess anyone for saying such a thing.

Maybe this is another case of not thinking things through on Disney's part. They usually really are on top of everything (especially profits), but I can see getting wrapped up in all the potential monies generated and not being able to see this happening. We've got other factors that can be blamed, like 9/11, and now the economy. If/when spending doesn't pick up and there are no more excuses, maybe it will finally sink in.

faline
01-19-2011, 06:08 PM
This is telling, though, in this sense ... Disney just raised prices for Bay Lake Tower points under the pretense that sales were too hot and needed to be cooled off some to allow them to retain enough inventory to sell until the next new property is available.

We were very interested in Bay Lake Tower but couldn't justify the price. In our discussions with Disney, we were told on more than one occasion that, if we wanted to buy into Bay Lake Tower, we would need to hurry because (1) it would be sold out by Thanksgiving (I believe that was in 2009 so didn't happen) and (2) Bay Lake Tower is simply NOT available on the resale market (and I now regularly see Bay Lake Tower points on the resale market).

DizneyRox
01-19-2011, 07:34 PM
These are not the droids you are looking for...

WRWDisney
01-20-2011, 09:42 AM
Originally Posted by Aurora
You really haven't thought before that WDW has become too dependent on DVC? Between 1990 and 2000, Disney opened 11 regular WDW resorts, 2 DVC resorts at Disney World, a theme park gate and a water park.

Between 2000 and 2010, they opened 2 regular resorts and FIVE DVC resorts at WDW, no theme parks and no water parks. I think they've known which side their bread's been buttered on for quite awhile.

While true, remember that, one, you are comparing a two decade period to one; and two (and more significant), you are comparing a time frame in which we have had the biggest economic downturn since the great depression, as well as the pre 9/11 recession combined with the post 9/11 massive travel decline. Those events ate up at least 5 of your second 10 year period.

That all said, has disney become to dependent on DVC? Probably. It allows them to expand capacity with minimal investment; the same cannot be said for park expansions. Do I think a park expansion is needed at this point? Yes, and I think we are starting to see them begin to roll-out (DCA re-work and Fantasyland expansion, the rumors of EPCOT additions and hopefully the eventual land addition at AK). I think we will look at this current decade as a great time of park expansion at Disney. I also think we will continue to see DVC growth (at a slower pace). They need point to sell on property; if they don't have them in a new property (the sexy option), they have to sell at the older resorts (points they acquire through buy-back). Thus, I think there will always be a new property in development (though no rush at the moment with the number of AKV point still out there.

Just my opinion:mickey:

Aurora
01-22-2011, 11:29 PM
While true, remember that, one, you are comparing a two decade period to one; and two (and more significant), you are comparing a time frame in which we have had the biggest economic downturn since the great depression, as well as the pre 9/11 recession combined with the post 9/11 massive travel decline. Those events ate up at least 5 of your second 10 year period.

That all said, has disney become to dependent on DVC? Probably. It allows them to expand capacity with minimal investment; the same cannot be said for park expansions. Do I think a park expansion is needed at this point? Yes, and I think we are starting to see them begin to roll-out (DCA re-work and Fantasyland expansion, the rumors of EPCOT additions and hopefully the eventual land addition at AK). I think we will look at this current decade as a great time of park expansion at Disney. I also think we will continue to see DVC growth (at a slower pace). They need point to sell on property; if they don't have them in a new property (the sexy option), they have to sell at the older resorts (points they acquire through buy-back). Thus, I think there will always be a new property in development (though no rush at the moment with the number of AKV point still out there.

Just my opinion:mickey:

We're not arguing, here. Just wanted to clarify.

I really was comparing one decade to another, not two to one. To be more accurate, I was comparing 1990-1999 to 2000-2009. (I did not include 2010, in which Disney opened ... nothing.) And yes, we did go belly up financially in the latter part of this past decade, but three of the five DVC properties I mentioned above (Wilderness, Beach Club and Saratoga) were opened between 2000 and 2004, two of them post-9/11 and all before the recession.

I do hope you're right about the near future being a time of park expansion. They sure could use some more places to put all these people. :D

lovin'fl
01-23-2011, 07:08 AM
I just hope it doesn't make it more difficult to book non-home resorts. We have a friend who owns DVC (tons of points) and uses it to stay at POLY each year. New resale folks won't be able to do that.

WRWDisney
01-23-2011, 07:51 AM
Aurora--good points,you are right, I can't do math:blush:, and I hope so too:thumbsup:.

Donald A
01-23-2011, 09:11 PM
I traded into the Disney Collection for my second trip as a DVC member to go to the Grand Floridian as I wanted to give it a try. However, I would likely not do that again as it was a terrible value for my points, especially now with Bay Lake Towers available as a Magic Kingdom Resort. I MIGHT consider trading to a DCL cruise but still think it is not a good value for points.

I am concerned as others said on here as well. DVC seems good on the surface but I am starting to realize it is too good to be true. If Disney can manipulate a contract, they will do it to make a profit. I remember when they increased weekday points and decreased weekend points (allowed under contract) and said that it was based on member "feedback." That is a small fib at best.

DVC Mike
01-24-2011, 06:56 PM
Things like the Disney Collection, the Adventurer Collection, the Concierge Collection, and AP discounts are all offered by Disney Vacation Development (DVD), the unit that builds the resorts and then sells the memberships. They are not part of our "ownership interest" and the cost of these programs is not passed on to members and is not included in the annual dues we pay.

They are - pure and simple - sales and marketing tools to entice people to purchase an ownership interest.

I am not defending DVD but I can see how they'd want to differentiate resale versus direct and make it more enticing to purchase direct. They now have an answer to the sales prospect who asks "Why buy direct when I can buy resale for less?"

Since it's really a waste of points to use your points for the Disney Collection, the Adventurer Collection, and the Concierge Collection, it's no great loss to potential resales buyers anyway. It's more symbolic at this point.

It may, however, lead to lower resale values and cost existing members who wish to sell their points, which is the real shame.

DizneyRox
01-24-2011, 08:56 PM
It may, however, lead to lower resale values and cost existing members who wish to sell their points, which is the real shame.
I think this. Disney doesn't buy back points from members except for ROFR. So this preceived loss of value will probably translate into even lower values on the resale market. It will hurt those who buy from Disney, but not really those who buy resale. The value won't drop further if they need to re-sell. Disney will now pay even less for any points they pick up on the resale market, which they can turn around and offer back at even greater profits.

This only hurts members as far as I can see... The old chinese proverb, be careful what you wish for seems to apply!

Everybody needs to stop taking those darn surveys!

Aurora
01-26-2011, 12:37 PM
I just hope it doesn't make it more difficult to book non-home resorts. We have a friend who owns DVC (tons of points) and uses it to stay at POLY each year. New resale folks won't be able to do that.

I don't know the details of exactly how this works, so maybe someone else can expand, but I thought that when you use your points to book a non-DVC room, those points go into the DVC system to be reserved as cash rooms. So if that's true, there would be no more difficulty in booking, because the room wouldn't have been available for DVC points anyway.

lovin'fl
01-27-2011, 04:34 PM
I don't know the details of exactly how this works, so maybe someone else can expand, but I thought that when you use your points to book a non-DVC room, those points go into the DVC system to be reserved as cash rooms. So if that's true, there would be no more difficulty in booking, because the room wouldn't have been available for DVC points anyway.

I thought that was if DVC folks trade into RCI. If DVC folks use their points to stay at POLY, I didn't think their DVC unit went into the 'cash' system. I could be wrong though.

KAT1811
01-29-2011, 07:56 PM
Just thinking a bit here. . .

In the dire economic times we are facing right now I'm sure there are quite a few DVC owners defaulting on their contracts. If you were faced with losing something (ie. house, car, timeshare, etc.) I would think that the timeshare would be first to go. Do we really know how many people trying to sell on the resale market have defaulted on their contracts? According to the Disney finance person we spoke with while in Disney, Disney will finance anyone since they have nothing to lose. You don't pay you don't vacation.

We are still debating DVC and the new restrictions wouldn't have any weight in our decision because, like Ian previously stated, we would buy DVC to stay in Disney and we have taken a very long time to decide which resort is right for us so even booking in another DVC resort other than our home resort doesn't seem like something we would want to do so further restrictions don't really scare me. The resale point contract would pay for itself in about 4 trips (not taking into account annual dues)

As for using DVC point to go on other Disney vacations, never happen. The book I have from a few years ago 2008/2009 has a 9 day/8 night Italy "Viva Italia" - Rome Tuscany, & Venice vacation listed as 430 points (per adult) and 387 points (per child) during the "value season". Seriously do the math. 1634 points for a family of four (not to mention we are a family of 6).

Just out of curiosity, does anyone know what Disney is selling their older units at per point? Do they sell units from OKW, VWL, and other older DVC resorts? If so does anyone have any idea how much more per point Disney v. reslae market?

DizneyRox
01-30-2011, 06:13 AM
Not exact numbers, but when I wanted to do an add-on at BWV, it was going to cost nearly the same as AKLV points (their current resort at the time).

There is a huge disparity between DVC and resale point costs on older resorts.

BTW - I think we are now at the point where Disney can stall the ROFR to the point where all resales now will fall into the ineligible category . I'm curious though if they would do this. I'm guessing they will.

patandtwins
01-30-2011, 03:18 PM
Just out of curiosity, does anyone know what Disney is selling their older units at per point? Do they sell units from OKW, VWL, and other older DVC resorts? If so does anyone have any idea how much more per point Disney v. reslae market?

I checked on this right before Christmas. They sell OKW, BCV, BWV, etc. for $120/point. CRAZY!!! SSR and AKL were up there too...like $115 or $120.

UCJen
01-30-2011, 05:07 PM
I checked on this right before Christmas. They sell OKW, BCV, BWV, etc. for $120/point. CRAZY!!! SSR and AKL were up there too...like $115 or $120.

Are you serious? We would really like to buy into BCV, but $120/pt? :jaw:

I don't want to coerced into buying into Aulani, BLT, or whatever inventory they're having difficulty shifting.

We'll definitely be looking into the secondary market. That is, if Disney doesn't start, exercising ROFR left, right, and center--like DisneyRox suggested.

Every year, Disney does something that chinks away at my fondness for it. This is just par for the course, I guess.

Ian
01-31-2011, 09:10 AM
I checked on this right before Christmas. They sell OKW, BCV, BWV, etc. for $120/point. CRAZY!!! SSR and AKL were up there too...like $115 or $120.I've never priced these direct from Disney, but if this is true it's near outrageous. Those prices are like double what they get on the open market.

Maybe I'm crazy, but this almost seems a bit like price fixing on Disney's part. The true value of what they're selling isn't anywhere near what they are charging for it, so they're using artificial means to prop up prices so they can continue to reap additional, unwarranted profits.

I find that extremely distasteful.

laprana
01-31-2011, 10:39 AM
Just out of curiosity, does anyone know what Disney is selling their older units at per point? Do they sell units from OKW, VWL, and other older DVC resorts? If so does anyone have any idea how much more per point Disney v. reslae market?

I found this pricing info on the DVC News site this morning showing what Disney currently charges for points at older/sold out resorts:

*BCV - $115 per point
*BWV - $115 per point
*HHI - $80 per point
*OKW - $101 per point
*SSR - $120 per point (incentives offered)
*VB - $80 per point
*VGC - $120 per point
*VWL - $101 per point

AKV and Aulani are currently selling at $120 per point and BLT is at $130 (incentives offered), although the site also says that BLT is going up to $140 per point as of March 7, 2011.

A quick look at some resale listings show contracts available for OKW as low as $57 per point, BCV as low as $75 per point, BWV as low as $64 per point, HHI as low as $48 per point, SSR as low as $62 per point, VB as low as $42 per point, and VWL as low as $60 per point. So, in some cases, buying resale would save about half the cost of buying direct from Disney!

DizneyRox
01-31-2011, 10:55 AM
SSR @ $120 with incentives and considered sold out? Something doesn't smell right with that one.

I believe that SSR was part of the whole housing crash however and probably left Disney holding a ton of points now. Considering they were using them as incentives for AKL and I think BLT contract sales, it makes sense.

i think I need to step away form this one before I become even more disillusioned in TWDC. As hard as that sounds possible.

Ian
01-31-2011, 10:58 AM
I found this pricing info on the DVC News site this morning showing what Disney currently charges for points at older/sold out resorts:

*BCV - $115 per point
*BWV - $115 per point
*HHI - $80 per point
*OKW - $101 per point
*SSR - $120 per point (incentives offered)
*VB - $80 per point
*VGC - $120 per point
*VWL - $101 per point

AKV and Aulani are currently selling at $120 per point and BLT is at $130 (incentives offered), although the site also says that BLT is going up to $140 per point as of March 7, 2011.

A quick look at some resale listings show contracts available for OKW as low as $57 per point, BCV as low as $75 per point, BWV as low as $64 per point, HHI as low as $48 per point, SSR as low as $62 per point, VB as low as $42 per point, and VWL as low as $60 per point. So, in some cases, buying resale would save about half the cost of buying direct from Disney!Not to point out the obvious here, but this is insanity. :shakehead:

laprana
01-31-2011, 06:05 PM
SSR @ $120 with incentives and considered sold out? Something doesn't smell right with that one.

I don't think SSR is officially sold out yet. (I lumped it in with the others because it is one of the "older" DVC resorts). I could be completely wrong, but I think SSR was sold out and then they added points when they added the THVs and they have not sold out those points yet. But, again, I'm not positive on that. :confused:

laprana
01-31-2011, 06:09 PM
Not to point out the obvious here, but this is insanity. :shakehead:

Absolutely. Even with the restriction on resale points, it's still well worth the savings to buy a resale contract if you know you're going to use your points at a DVC resort in WDW or VGC. To me, paying double just to use points on things that are a terrible use of points anyway is just plain dumb. :doh:

UCJen
02-01-2011, 10:05 AM
I've never priced these direct from Disney, but if this is true it's near outrageous. Those prices are like double what they get on the open market.

Maybe I'm crazy, but this almost seems a bit like price fixing on Disney's part. The true value of what they're selling isn't anywhere near what they are charging for it, so they're using artificial means to prop up prices so they can continue to reap additional, unwarranted profits.

I find that extremely distasteful.

Yes, it certainly does look like price fixing. Because the only possible scenario I could think of was Disney responding to consumer demand. While not impossible, I find that highly unlikely in the current economic climate.

LilOrmstonViolet38
02-26-2011, 01:18 PM
I don't think SSR is officially sold out yet. (I lumped it in with the others because it is one of the "older" DVC resorts). I could be completely wrong, but I think SSR was sold out and then they added points when they added the THVs and they have not sold out those points yet. But, again, I'm not positive on that. :confused:

this is true. we just bought SSR in jan when we were there from dvdi. but i felt like they were having issues selling. when we bought we went on a tour for the freebies (and have a few times on other trips...) it's just dh and i so we don't need much in points and knew that going in. we always go to wdw in jan (anniversary, and get away from snow!!) and only for 6 nites about every other year. so i told them we weren't interested in 100 points. the guide left the room and came back with a special for us. only 50 points. i thought i would have to buy resale to get that few of point. so i assume they are having issues selling if they are willing to sell so few of points... for first time buyers.. it was crazy.

Brownie54
02-27-2011, 12:07 PM
As someone who has been "setting on the fence" about purchasing DVC for 2 - 3 years now, this thread has been very enlightening. So Disney can RORF a resale at SSR for $70 and then resell it for $120! Gee, if timeshares didn't already have a bad reputation. I better get a cushion because it looks like I'll be on this fence for quite a bit longer.

DizneyRox
02-27-2011, 02:29 PM
As someone who has been "setting on the fence" about purchasing DVC for 2 - 3 years now, this thread has been very enlightening. So Disney can RORF a resale at SSR for $70 and then resell it for $120! Gee, if timeshares didn't already have a bad reputation. I better get a cushion because it looks like I'll be on this fence for quite a bit longer.
Yes... They would pay the $70 to the seller however. Not sure why this would/should have any bearing on your decision however.

Brownie54
03-01-2011, 09:20 AM
Yes... They would pay the $70 to the seller however. Not sure why this would/should have any bearing on your decision however.

It has a bearing on my decision because of the way Disney tries to inflate their value. I understand why Disney does it. It just makes me trust them a little less. Disney wants SSR to sell for $120 when the true value is more like $70. It reminds me of our housing fiasco(somewhat).
Trust is very important because of the way DVC contracts are written. As I understand them Disney has a right to change things a lot. I'm no expert on this so I invite anyone to correct me if I'm off base.

DizneyRox
03-01-2011, 11:48 AM
Oh, if you're talking about trust, then I'm afraid you might be barking up the wrong tree.

I don't "trust" Disney anymore. I don't think they have done anything that isn't spelled out in the agreements that everyone signs when they buy into DVC. The "problem" is, the language is legalease and is mostly open to interpretation. I don't think anyone thought that Disney would do the major restructuring of points they have been doing the past few years (weekends vs weekday point costs) but they are/were completely within their right to do that. It's in black and white with everyone's signature not far behind.

Disney will do whatever they can to shake every last dollar out of every guest's pocket that steps foot on property. That is a 100% fact in my mind. I am on guard during my whole trip to prevent that from happening, and I've been mostly successful.

Understanding that will make your trips more enjoyable. I know a lot of people who have come back from WDW lately with a bad taste in their mouth. It just catches them off guard.

If you feel that SSR is worth $70 a point, then that's what it's worth and buy it at that. If you feel it's worth $120 a point, buy it at that. When I was selling my house, I thought it was worth a lot more than I got for it. That didn't stop me from selling it, and it didn't stop someone else from buying it.

Brownie54
03-01-2011, 06:05 PM
Thanks for your response DizRocs. I just hate to think there are some people who spend hard earned money buying SSR from Disney's inflated price and later learns they could have gotten a resale for much, much, less.:(

DizneyRox
03-01-2011, 07:53 PM
Agreed, and Disney has been able to keep that idea going for a bit. A lot of poepple ask, which makes me think that it's somehow being reported, that Disney points are better than resale points. I don't understand how they think they can maintain the price with the dimished value. For example, AKL points expire the same time if you bought them year one or now. Plus, I've always thought the initial cost of the points was to pay for building the resort, so how could new points go up in cost once the resort is complete? Sounds like Hollywood math to me.

I've alweays seen reslae as a better value, even when the new changes go into effect. Spending your points on anything other than DVC resorts really takes any value out of your membership. While it's nice to be able to get away, the ROI really doesn't make a lot of financial sense.

I just wish my AKL points were available at resale when we purchased.

Zone Stop
03-04-2011, 10:00 AM
Just to clarify, Saratoga DID sell out before they opened the Treehouses.