How far can Disney go and keep you coming back? [Archive]

Mickey91

08-07-2010, 11:13 PM

We've all been a little more disgruntled with Disney's blatant greed as of late. Tell me, where is your threshold as far as how much more you'll take before planning a new vacation destination?

This was supposed to be a poll but it didn't go through. Here were the choices, choose all that apply:

1. If I have to pay to park at a value or any other resort onsite, I'll stay off site and maybe visit other theme parks in the area.

2. If the tickets go over $85 per day per park, forget it!!

3. I always have thought that Disney should be only for the wealthy...bring on the price hikes!

4. I have already stopped going. Just can't justify the cost anymore.

5. I'll never stop going! I would sell my left lung for the magic!!!

Donald's Girl

08-07-2010, 11:52 PM

Do you know anyone who actually buys a one day/one park ticket?

DizneyRox

08-08-2010, 01:22 AM

razor5002000

08-08-2010, 02:19 AM

Its getting very expensive to go to Disney. What people fail to realize that if the one day price go up the price for multiple days does goes up as well. The discount are based off the 1 day price. So even the multi day price goes up. Not to mention the price not to mention all the bells and wistles like park hopper, water park and more, and no expire ticket. So to say just one day price goes up is totally wrong. the price for all tickets go up. Its getting to point were going is expensive. I still love disney but go less and less.

Zippy 1

08-08-2010, 03:55 AM

We only go every three to four years so the price increase does not bother me as much. Yes I could be putting that money toward something else but since we don't go often I don't complain to much.
Although I do have to question rainsing prices when the are having problems filling resrt rooms and offering all the special deals. But Disney seems to be becoming more about the all mighty dollar. What would Walt say?

Joannelet

08-08-2010, 08:58 AM

THe price is definitely a big deal. We are DVC members and if the price tickets keep going up I think we have to start rethinking how many days we spend in the parks. We do not pay for one day tickets (I mean the price increase at $84 is just beyond ridiculous to me) but yes the packages are going up to and it's just getting to be a bit much.
I know since I am a DVC member we are kind of locked into staying there...but I have no problems cooking in my room or going off site to eat either.
There are soo many families that have enough trouble going before the price hikes. I can't imagine it getting any better for these families.

Georgesgirl1

08-08-2010, 09:01 AM

We have already started cutting back on our trips. We go less frequently, spend less days in the park, eat in the room more, and buy less "stuff" when we are there.

Donald'sGirl- We just bought one day tickets the day before the price hike. On this trip in October we are only going into the park for two days. With a 20 month old in tow and me being 25 weeks pregnant, we decided to spend more time relaxing at the pool and resort hopping! We are using our Give a Day, Get a Disney Day tickets for one day and bought one day tickets for the other.

Seasonscraps

08-08-2010, 09:18 AM

Disney already lost a lot of our business. We are DVC so they have that as a lock but our resort days far out number our park days. I went there 3 times in 4 years without stepping foot in a park. Other then Earl of Sandwich, House of Blues and ESPN Club - our meals are pretty much off property. We buy groceries off property. We are not souvenir people.

Tekneek

08-08-2010, 09:40 AM

Aiming to go back in 2013, but I cannot say if we will ever go back after that.

The big problem for me is that, despite the significant price increases over the last few years, the guest experience has taken a step back. I've had some concerns for a while, but then I am jacked into the history of the company and notice more details than others might. However, the experience has declined to the point where my wife was bringing it up on her own during our most recent trip (end of July). When we looked back at the 7 trips we have made since 2002, the worst trips for guest experience were after the rapid price increases started. We evaluated all the trips before I went back and realized the connection.

While we encountered a few wonderful CMs on our recent trip, the vast majority seemed to be so sarcastic, cynical, and rude that it just blew my mind. Some of the comments I heard them making to guests were so amazing that I just stopped in place. I couldn't believe what I was hearing. I was so stunned that I would've believed they outsourced the park CMs to another company. I don't believe it is a July thing, because I've been 3 times in July.

I will always be a Disney fan, even if it is only in a historical context, but the price (and other business decisions) wouldn't bother me so much if I thought they were justified by an increase in quality (or even quantity) of experiences available at Walt Disney World. Instead, it seems like the only thing going up at WDW are the prices.

TheVBs

08-08-2010, 09:47 AM

We typically go every 2 years with a trip to a different destination in between. I suppose if cost became an issue we could stretch that out. We typically go when there's some sort of discount and we'd continue to look for those kinds of savings.

Bethis26fan

08-08-2010, 10:04 AM

If I have to pay to park at a value or any other resort onsite, I'll stay off site and maybe visit other theme parks in the area.

Mickey91

08-08-2010, 10:17 AM

Ksmith75

08-08-2010, 10:32 AM

The price increases have not deterred DH and I . We dont have kids, so I realize it is less expensive for just 2 adults. It is our favorite place and to be honest, we have always had wonderful experiences with CMs (a few were not that great, but not enough to ruin anything). When I think of our Disney trips - nothing negitive comes to mind in our memories...at all. I know prices need to go up...Disney is not a non-profit...and I understand that the material things that they need to operate have gone up in price as well...so therefore they must raises too...

darthmacho

08-08-2010, 10:38 AM

Frequency and length have already gone way down. Spending is WAY down as well.

Honestly, my last trip was an eye opener as well. I've discovered it not really necessary to hit the parks every day either, so I see the cost of our tickets dropping on upcoming trips too!

We've also started cooking in the room more, which is a significant savings for us.

As someone mentioned in another thread, there's only so much money allotted for different things. Just because they raise prices doesn't mean they are getting more money from me.

The part about spending is so true. I'm only going to spend so much on my vacation. I guess The only difference is what I get in return. Charging me more for the room is just going to leave me less to spend in the parks. I guess they'd rather get $15 from me to park my car, rather than having to give me a mug in return. This time I'm getting free food, which is great, but they're taking away a lot of the magic by streamlining all of their merchandise with generic WDW stuff which must be cheaper to produce and
distribute than attraction specific products.
Anyway, as of this post, I feel the value of a WDW trip is still very high. :mickey:

marlyn

08-08-2010, 11:32 AM

I have been going every 2-3 years. I come from far away so I stay for 2 weeks when I do come. That does get expensive, especially with dining.

I buy an annual pass due to my length of stay, and this year due to good rates on rooms I decided to go back for a second visit. With already having my annual passes and TIW card...combined with $63/night room at ASMov, it was too good to pass up.

Do all of you DVC members have APs?

I Love my WDW vacations. I have been to lots of other places with my kids as well (Mexico, Hawaii, cruise, etc...) but the place where I feel the best is WDW. I have seldom had a rude CM. I know they exist, and maybe I am just lucky. Disney has something that you just can't get anywhere else, so yes, I will still keep going.

We have a local fair/exhibition (Pacific National Exhibition in Vancouver, BC) every August and it costs about $65 for a ticket to get into the fair including ride pass...then once inside you have to pay extra (about $5 a shot) for a few of the bigger "thrills" such as Hellavator, Haunted House or Drop Zone. They have shows, etc...but compared to Disney for $20 more there is just no comparison.:mickey:

RBrooksC

08-08-2010, 11:48 AM

We've all been a little more disgruntled with Disney's blatant greed as of late. Tell me, where is your threshold as far as how much more you'll take before planning a new vacation destination?

Why is it when a company raises its prices it is greed? It boils me to read that every time. Disney is a FOR-PROFIT company. Each year everything in their cost centers rise, that includes salaraies, and vendor costs. So, for Disney to make a profit and also pay their employees raises, cost of living and promotional raises, the money has to come from somewhere. Also, when food costs or other costs go up, to keep profits at the same level, what Disney charge has to rise. Couple that with their responsibility to share-holders, and you can see why their prices go up each year.

Whine if you want, and I know anybody who calls profit-making "greed" will, but if you want anything close the fun experience you have come to expect, then prices will rise.

TheVBs

08-08-2010, 11:57 AM

We have a local fair/exhibition (Pacific National Exhibition in Vancouver, BC) every August and it costs about $65 for a ticket to get into the fair including ride pass...then once inside you have to pay extra (about $5 a shot) for a few of the bigger "thrills" such as Hellavator, Haunted House or Drop Zone. They have shows, etc...but compared to Disney for $20 more there is just no comparison.:mickey:

I have to agree. When you go to a destination where you're paying seperately for everything you want to do, it's amazing how much it adds up to. Disney is not an inexpensive vacation, but I really feel we get the most bang for our buck there. That's one of the biggest reasons we keep going back.

PopPhan

08-08-2010, 12:00 PM

Whine if you want, and I know anybody who calls profit-making "greed" will, but if you want anything close the fun experience you have come to expect, then prices will rise.

I am thinking that THIS statement is at the crux of most of the complaints -- guests are NOT getting what they "have come to expect" from a Disney vacation. Notice all the comments on: the state of the attractions/rides/etc.; the attitudes of the CMs; the cutbacks in offerings/'entitlements' for accommodations/packages/etc.

Maybe we have all been "spoiled" in previous visits and want the same, or more, each time, but when customer satisfaction diminishes and costs to the customer continue to increase, there will come a point where the customer takes his/her business elsewhere. It is the same in ANY business.

Darbylew

08-08-2010, 12:03 PM

We love Disney and go at least twice a year. I
was so sorry to hear about the price increase
but it will not stop us from going. We love the
Magic so we will keep on going. We are going
in October and I am waiting on a discount for
our room. I hope it comes out soon. I have not
heard how much the Florida resident ticket is
since the increase. Anyone know?:confused:

DizneyRox

08-08-2010, 12:23 PM

marlyn

08-08-2010, 12:40 PM

thatkindofday

08-08-2010, 12:44 PM

We are DVC members and go once or twice a year. We are planning on buying APs this year and every other year going forward. We will spread the AP out over 2 years. (Like go in October this year, then Feb and Sept of next year. Then buy a new one for the following Oct/Sept and do it all over again.) Price may eventually be a factor in our vacations, but WDW is the only place we really go for longer than a weekend and we don't intend on that changing. We realize that the prices of everything are going up and like many companies (or most successful companies) they have to raise prices to keep up their current profits. It's just business.

Tekneek

08-08-2010, 12:49 PM

Whine if you want, and I know anybody who calls profit-making "greed" will, but if you want anything close the fun experience you have come to expect, then prices will rise.

As PopPhan stated also, if I felt like we were getting the same quality guest experience as before, I might accept the faster-than-inflation increases. Given the rate of the increases, I could accept equal quality, but would prefer higher quality. Instead, I feel like they're offering neither.

Do I think 1 day at a park in Walt Disney World is going to be 73% better in 2011 than it was in 2005? That's how much more they will be charging for that experience, and I cannot see how anyone can suggest it is that much better. The inflation-adjusted price (from 2005-2011) won't go much beyond $65, but it will be $82. What cost increases justify the change? Disney can charge whatever they want to, but I don't see how anything in their supply chain or labor overhead is 73% higher next year than it was in 2005. Please enlighten me.

People can be unhappy about price changes if they want to be. They don't need the permission of anyone else. Just like Disney can change their prices without our permission. Until Intercot decides that we can't post about it here, I expect people will continue to do so.

Tekneek

08-08-2010, 01:26 PM

Tekneek

08-08-2010, 02:01 PM

Argh. I wish I could edit that earlier post. The difference is actually approximately 37%, not 73%.

Do I think 1 day at a park in Walt Disney World is going to be 73% better in 2011 than it was in 2005?

buzznwoodysmom

08-08-2010, 02:17 PM

Our family goes to WDW at least once a year, but we also travel to other places inbewteen our Disney trips. I can remember a time, not very long ago, saying "for what we spent on this other vacation we could have done a nice disney trip". I always told family and friends that thought they couldn't afford a disney trip that its much less expensive than you think, and for the same price of a long weekend in other places you could do a week at Disney in a value resort. Well I'm sad to say that those days are over. In planning and paying for other vacations I'm seeing more and more that disney's price has slowly crept away from the other places we've visited. And that in itself is OK, like other's have said its a business, they are there to make money. But for us its the decrease in so many things that doesn't justify the increase in price. We've found a decrease in almost all areas from merchanise selection to food choices and quality, CM friendliness to upkeep all over property. We still love it and think its a great place for our family to spend time together, but other places are beginning to look better to us lately. I don't think there will ever come a time when we say "that's it we are done with disney for good", but we may start spacing out our Disney vacations in exchange for other places.

SBETigg

08-08-2010, 02:42 PM

I still love it. Though there have been some changes that disappoint, there have been some new great things that make me happy, too. I'm nowhere near disgruntled. I'll keep going to WDW.

barnaby

08-08-2010, 02:43 PM

I am curious where else people will go? Universal has also raised its prices.

That's kind of how I look at things too. Close to where I live we have Moreys' Piers which are amusement parks piers at the Jersey Shore. They charge $48 per day for a two-pier pass, which gets unlimited rides on their attractions. And it isn't cheap to eat and stay there either.
I think WDW is a better value.

eandrsmom

08-08-2010, 02:50 PM

We will continue to go once a year. It's a vacation that works well for us, since I've got older kids as well as preschoolers. I have to admit the the increasing ticket prices have changed the way that we do a Disney vacation. On our last trip, the tickets were more expensive than our villa. (We stayed offsite.) We used to enjoy staying onsite, but I really cannot justify the added expense, especially with the ticket prices increasing.

Mickey91

08-08-2010, 03:20 PM

Why is it when a company raises its prices it is greed? It boils me to read that every time. Disney is a FOR-PROFIT company. Each year everything in their cost centers rise, that includes salaraies, and vendor costs. So, for Disney to make a profit and also pay their employees raises, cost of living and promotional raises, the money has to come from somewhere. Also, when food costs or other costs go up, to keep profits at the same level, what Disney charge has to rise. Couple that with their responsibility to share-holders, and you can see why their prices go up each year.

Whine if you want, and I know anybody who calls profit-making "greed" will, but if you want anything close the fun experience you have come to expect, then prices will rise.
If the experience was at least at the same level as in recent years, I have already stated, as have others, that I would not mind the increase in price. Of course increases will be necessary to keep the status quo. But when the prices continue to increase while the benefits continue to decrease, for example, the MNSSHP/MVMCP. Every year the price goes up and a benefit also disappears. First it was a couple of the freebies. Then the complimentary picture. Now the extra few hours in the park and who knows if the experience will remain the same. If these things disappeared and the price stayed steady, it would not be as big a deal. But now the price is at least $20 more and the offerings are very slim. This is only one example. If you would read the entire thread and see what people are actually upset about, you would know that it isn't just whining that Disney wants to make a profit. Disney has wonderful things and it would be ashame if they couldn't make a profit. But, The Disney Company has a history of putting the guest and guest experiences first. Because of this, they have become the successful company they are. Now that the profit is coming first and the guest experiences second or even behind everything else, I won't be surprised if they begin to fall from their throne. Disney is on top because of their dedication to doing it right. When that is completely gone, there is NOTHING that separates them from any other theme park and thus, why travel so far to get there when there is a theme park in just about every state. A four hour drive within my own state sounds a lot better than 13 hours.

Mickey91

08-08-2010, 03:29 PM

I am curious where else people will go? Universal has also raised its prices. I understand that many are disappointed with the decline in service at WDW...but are places like Universal etc any better?
No. But if Disney doesn't keep above the rest, why not start exploring some of the other places since it won't be any worse. Kind of like I always shopped at Walmart for a better deal. Well, our Walmart's prices have gone up and the offerings have diminished. Therefore, instead of traveling 15 minutes NOT to get a better deal at Walmart, I will go 3 minutes down the road to Kroger. Some things are a little more there but the quality is better and I at least get points toward gas. It is all in what you "sell" your place to be. Disney has always been a cut above the rest. When they become mediocre like everyone else, there is no reason to choose it before the others. And, if I don't feel the value of staying on their property, what's to keep me from going to Universal, Sea World and Busch Gardens? They are losing their touch. Their need for immediate gain is going to hurt them in the long run.

Mickey91

08-08-2010, 03:33 PM

lindique

08-08-2010, 04:05 PM

Kevin Yee, who writes for another website, calls what's going on the Disney Parks "decline by degrees" - meaning little things disappear or are cheapened every few months. Of course, prices continue to either rise or stay the same while this happens. At first, only the most frequent visitor notices the differences, but eventually the changes add up and almost everyone notices.

In response to Disney's "decline by degrees" (thank you, Kevin), I have done the same myself. I will stay at a moderate hotel only if I can get a discount - otherwise, I will stay at a value. I have started making breakfast in the room, as the cost of breakfast in the food courts (plus having to deal with all the teenagers there for sporting events) has become more than I think is reasonable. I occasionally leave the grounds to have lunch and/or dinner as well. And, my souvenir buying is down as well, in response to the decline in quality of most of the items.

marlyn

08-08-2010, 04:33 PM

It is all in what you "sell" your place to be. Disney has always been a cut above the rest. When they become mediocre like everyone else, there is no reason to choose it before the others. And, if I don't feel the value of staying on their property, what's to keep me from going to Universal, Sea World and Busch Gardens? They are losing their touch. Their need for immediate gain is going to hurt them in the long run.

I can see your point here. Lets hope the powers to be at Disney can see it also!

Pirate Granny

08-08-2010, 04:54 PM

BrerGnat

08-08-2010, 04:59 PM

I go to WDW fairly often (either yearly or every other year). I go to Disneyland weekly. This pattern has been going on for the last 10 years or so.

I have yet to go on a trip to either resort and find anything to really, truly complain about. I always have a good time. I don't go with a negative attitude. I don't get caught up in all the articles online, the "opinions" of countless members of discussion boards, etc. I might read them, but I can't help but wonder what people are getting so worked up about most of the time. I mean, someone sees a broken lightbulb, and it turns into "Disney is going downhill."

I think reasonable expectations and a positive mindset can go a LONG way to having a much more enjoyable experience.

I go to Disney for what it does for ME and my family. I don't really care about all the trivial stuff. It's about time spent together as a family, and making happy memories.

For that, I will continue to support Disney by visiting their parks, costs be darned, until I can physically do so no more.

Plex

08-08-2010, 05:23 PM

Inflation impacts everyone and everything. Don't forget that the WDW operating expenses go up every year as well. The price increase isn't really substantial, and with a multi-day pass it's really insignificant. When you take into consideration that you're spending thousands of dollars on a vacation already, an extra $50 for park tickets should barely even hit your radar. The price increase is probably less than 2% of your whole trip.

I'd just like to point out as well, that you're accusing Disney of being greedy, yet you're the one that's all wrapped around the axle about price and money. It's not okay for them to be concerned about paying the bills, but it IS okay for you?

And on another note... why not just start accumulating Disney stock? In that case, their gain is also yours, and it's a hedge against price increases, etc.

And on the "Disney is for rich people" issue.... Ever take a look at the map of where guests are from at the end of Space Ship Earth? There's a really close correlation between clusters of dots on that map and the highest median income areas in the country. I wouldn't say Disney is for the rich, but regularly visiting WDW is certainly for the above average. I'd say that's pretty much how most major vacation destinations go...

Tekneek

08-08-2010, 05:27 PM

I don't go with a negative attitude.

Hah. I don't think I could have had a more positive attitude than I had at the beginning of my trip this past July. The positive attitude helped me deal with computer problems delaying us getting our KTTW and getting to the parks as intended. It kept me from writing down the names of every CM I heard dealing with other guests in a way that I had previously only associated with Six Flags.

I don't begrudge the computer problem, other than not realizing it was an inconvenience and offering the kind of Disney customer service they had in the past (still, I don't beg for "freebies", a place interested in top quality customer service doesn't have to be asked). The whole adversarial thing with a lot of CMs in the 4 parks was a stunner for me. It just seemed out of place in Disney parks based on previous experience. They were never about major issues either. Great customer service sometimes means biting your tongue. I know it can be a challenge, but a reputation for excellent customer service is built on that.

TheVBs

08-08-2010, 06:13 PM

You know, I have to say that we have not experienced any declining quality at WDW. On our 2nd to last visit (3 years ago) we had more fantastic CM interactions then we'd ever had before and never saw anything amiss in the parks. On our last vacation (a year ago), the character interactions were incredible, like nothing we've ever experienced before, we had our first look at Pixie Hollow which was fabulous, again noticed nothing declining in the parks appearance or performance. And thinking back through all the meals of both trips, I can only think of 2 that I thought were poor (from the same place) - other than that our meals were great!

We're just not seeing this decline in service or park quality that everyone's talking about. :shrug: In fact, each vacation there seems to be more amazing than the last.

Tekneek

08-08-2010, 06:30 PM

We're just not seeing this decline in service or park quality that everyone's talking about. :shrug: In fact, each vacation there seems to be more amazing than the last.

I wish I could say the same. I really do. Maybe we just got lucky with the first trips, or unlucky with the last ones. It never pleased us when we recognized things that were perceived to 'never happen at Disney.' They were shocks for that reason.

What you describe sounds like our first 4 or so family trips. I would've loved nothing more than for the trend to have continued on that path.

TheVBs

08-08-2010, 06:46 PM

I wish I could say the same. I really do. Maybe we just got lucky with the first trips, or unlucky with the last ones. It never pleased us when we recognized things that were perceived to 'never happen at Disney.' They were shocks for that reason.

What you describe sounds like our first 4 or so family trips. I would've loved nothing more than for the trend to have continued on that path.

These were our last two family trips out of four. We had one in 1999 before having kids. And we'd been as kids.

I really hope your trend doesn't continue! I can imagine how disappointed you must feel after those experiences.

crltkcagle

08-08-2010, 07:10 PM

I don't know what they could possibly do to keep my husband away. He's more obsessed than the above average obsessed disney fan! LOL However we have noticed little things here and there that are declining. It wouldn't keep us away because its still magical to our family. We can't sit on a beach and watch Tink fly off the castle. Or backpack through Europe and ride the teacups. I hope that things improve a little and I am thinking that the price increase has something to do with this major fantasyland rehaul that they are doing.

PopPhan

08-08-2010, 07:27 PM

I'm disappointed in all the increases...especially the dining plan...it keeps going up and cutting items off...I read a rumor that they will be cutting out the desserts next year. The fireworks buffet has gone up in price three or four time in what, three years...the refillable mugs were under ten dollars to start. TIW Used to be $25 now up to $75. And what's up with charging a premium for all buffets during the summer????

If you check the following thread:
http://www.intercot.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=173663
and check the documentation on the Dining Plan(s) for 2011, you will see that the dessert has NOT been removed, only one of the drinks with a CS breakfast.

As for the rest of your concerns, I hate to say it, but the law of Supply and Demand clearly come into play for these items -- the fireworks buffet is ALWAYS sold out as soon as it opens up; the refillable mugs have become almost mandatory with the cost of individual drinks at the resorts, and they know it; TiW has become a mainstay for APs; and last, the buffets are always big sellers any time of year, but during "summer" months when there are more people looking to eat, they can demand more for them.

Unless, and until, people stop visiting/eating at/staying at Disney properties, this will continue.

What IS ironic is that they KNOW that this is happening, that people are being driven away, otherwise there wouldn't be so many "discounts" being offered throughout the year. The corporate mentality just will not allow them to hold costs to the consumers (visitors) down. Disney corporate should take note of what happened to US automakers -- higher prices for inferior goods drove consumers to lower priced, higher quality foreign automobiles.

badkitty

08-08-2010, 08:30 PM

elephant rider

08-08-2010, 09:00 PM

The price increase won't keep me away. I currently have an AP but if I didn't, I still would spend more than one day at the parks during each trip. It's costs $83 for a one day pass at the ski resort I go to and 10 of 14 consecutive days is $610. At WDW, the price goes down with mulitple days at a greater rate. The value to me at WDW is better the longer you stay in comparision to other recreation choices.

IMO this is key to the discussion. I can see people changing to other destinations for shorter trips due to the increases, but I think its still a good value for a longer stay.

Ian

08-09-2010, 08:28 AM

Surprisingly, I come down on the other side of this debate. Taking out of the discussion the fact that the overall experience has declined in quality significantly over the last 5-10 years for a second, I still think a Disney World vacation is a great value.

The price of a one-day pass has people down?? First off, no one buys those. The most popular pass is the five day park hopper and that's gone up to $291, or around $58 per day. And that's for admission to four theme parks.

When I compare that to other entertainment offerings like sporting events or concerts for example it's an unbelieveable bargain! Nowadays you're going to pay $100 minimum even for lousy seats to a concert or sporting event. And that's for what? Three hours of fun tops? You can get around 65 hours of some of the best themed entertainment on the planet for just three times the price of those tickets to the ballgame.

Heck, you go to the Jersey Shore (which is hardly the greatest vacation destination on the planet) and you'll easily drop $4,000 - $5,000 on a week's family vacation. I don't know about all of you, but I routinely spend a week in Disney World for like half that amount.

Now listen ... I totally agree it's hard to stomach all the cuts, cuts, cuts while at the same time dealing with the prices going up, up, up. But in fairness, I think it's more that Disney World has been a comparitive great deal than it is them trying to raise prices to some outrageous level.

Also let's bear in mind that they are currently pouring like a billion dollars into a huge Fantasyland expansion.

TheVBs

08-09-2010, 08:54 AM

I fully agree with the two PP's. We plan for 10 day trips to Disney now and there's no way we could spend that amount of time somewhere else for the same amount of money and get as much as we do at Disney.

BigRedDad

08-09-2010, 09:31 AM

I think WDW still has a lot to offer and there are so many ways to cut your cost down. I don't go for less than 7-days because it is too cost prohibitive. I also don't buy the Dining Plan because it is a ripoff unless you plan the most expensive meals instead of places you enjoy. We save money by purchasing meals to share. A $9 meal is big enough for my DD or DW to share. That makes the cost less than a McDonald's. Here are our ways to save money on trips:

1. Stay at a Value resort. We do not spend enough time in a room to warrant the cost of more luxurious resorts.
2. Go during a slower season. Lower price for rooms and crowds. I cannot stand crowds.
3. Share meals instead of purchasing one for everybody.
4. Take breakfast foods: bagels, cereals, etc.
5. Bring your own drinks: Soda, alcohol, etc.
6. eBay for pin-trading. We just got 200 pins to trade for just over $100.
7. Tickets: Per day tickets go down drastically the longer you stay. Instead of Park Hoppers, look at the option of purchasing more days. Yes, you may use more than 1-ticket on a day, but the cost is cheaper than the Park Hopper option in many cases.

PopPhan

08-09-2010, 09:36 AM

Mickey'sGirl

08-09-2010, 09:48 AM

Familiarity breeds contempt.

Disney used to be a save up and have that trip of a lifetime experience, now it is common for it to be an annual or semi-annual event for many many many families. Disney has made it too affordable and therefore it is full of people looking for Disney to hand them the magic, give them upgrades, get them to the front of the line. It is my opinion that if you are looking for declining service you are going to find it. Yes prices are going up, but that's part of life ... at least you are having fun at WDW (my gas bill does not give me as much enjoyment)! I am guilty of panning the restaurants at WDW saying that the quality has gone down ... has it, or am I just too familiar with things .... has some of the magic been lost because I am there so darned often that there isn't time to get the magic up to speed in my own mind again?

Just some food for thought.

Tekneek

08-09-2010, 11:06 AM

Disney used to be a save up and have that trip of a lifetime experience, now it is common for it to be an annual or semi-annual event for many many many families.

Cool. I think this is the first time I have heard someone express the view that Walt Disney World *should* aspire to be priced so high that it is a once-in-a-lifetime experience.

Disney has made it too affordable and therefore it is full of people looking for Disney to hand them the magic, give them upgrades, get them to the front of the line.

I don't know who you are referring to. I suppose there are people who do that, but I don't know them. As far as "looking for Disney to hand them the magic", isn't that what they are supposed to be doing? Isn't that what the concept was about? Or is "Have a Magical Day" a wish for you to go out and invent your own magic while paying them a good bit of money to do so?

It is my opinion that if you are looking for declining service you are going to find it.

I suppose so. Or, they could make it readily apparent by putting it right out in your face and ears. I could've tried to ignore and erase from my mind the incidents I overheard with castmembers on my last trip. Despite it happening on each day and in each park, I could've tried to be a robot and pretend they were not happening. Why should I have to pretend that Disney is living up to a higher standard than they actually are? I should also pretend that Wonders of Life is still open, they haven't delivered poor quality attractions, etc. Yep, that vacation was full of the same high quality Disney attractions that they ever had, with CMs delivering the same high level of service they ever did... What good does delusion do?

Yes prices are going up, but that's part of life ... at least you are having fun at WDW (my gas bill does not give me as much enjoyment)!

If you use that gas to generate heat during the winter, it may actually keep you alive. If you use it for your oven, you may cook meals that you enjoy (presumably). Don't sell it too short.

I am guilty of panning the restaurants at WDW saying that the quality has gone down ... has it, or am I just too familiar with things .... has some of the magic been lost because I am there so darned often that there isn't time to get the magic up to speed in my own mind again?

The only way to have avoided the problems I encountered would have been to stay out of the parks. So why was I going there again?

Is it your concept that we should be so blinded by the "once in a lifetime trip" that we aren't concerned about whether Disney is living up to their own historical standard? I suppose that is what they are banking on. I suspect most first timers, based on my own conversations with them, don't know very much about very much going on there. So we should all strive to be naive like the usual first timer in order to improve the magic of the experience? Is that the secret?

Mickey'sGirl

08-09-2010, 11:20 AM

Perhaps it is.... ;) Trips were a lot more fun when we weren't plotting every footstep to get to this ADR or to get over to that EMH. Trips were a lot more magical when we didn't know ... or claim to know as the case may be ... so much. That's what these message boards are all about, aren't they? Getting the skinny on the parks etc?

I appreciate your responses, and while I haven't been delusional for many months now, I do think that oftentimes how I choose to respond to things greatly effects my enjoyment of them. When I go in smiling, things tend to go well. :mickey:

DizneyRox

08-09-2010, 11:29 AM

Seasonscraps

08-09-2010, 11:34 AM

I went to the store the other day to pick up some dog food. I have a couple of large dogs, so I get the big 40 lbs bag, it lasts me a few weeks.

When I got to the check-out line, much to my surprise, it was $5 more a bag than what I remember. Oh well, price go up, gas is going up, I can deal with that.

When I got home, I noticed the 40 lbs bag was only 35 lbs. Now I'm mad!

Same thing!

This pretty much sums up my feelings about Disney prices. I don't mind the price increases - you have to expect them but (for me) the value is not there anymore. Disney has become guilty of over promising and under delivering.

Ironically, I find the price of the tickets to be the best value in relation to the costs of all other aspects of a Disney vacation - even a one day ticket. I can eat better for less just outside Disney property. We are splitting our next trip - 3 days at the Caribe Royale in a king room with a load of ammenities for less then it would cost to stay at one of the mods. The main reason I go back is because we bought into DVC in 2002 so our hotel is essentially paid for and DH loves it there.

There are plenty of other places to have a thoroughly enjoyable vacations where I don't feel like someone has a hand in my pocket 24/7.

ETA - it's not a matter of looking for the negative but when it's presented to you in one way or another over several days it gets more difficult to ignore.

Tekneek

08-09-2010, 11:34 AM

When I go in smiling, things tend to go well. :mickey:

Oh, we kept smiling as much as we could. At the end of the day, though, we had to admit that things just weren't up to what we were accustomed to. I don't feel bad for comparing Disney to itself, though, because it doesn't involve any expectations brought in from the outside.

It may still be a great value in terms of a lot of other destinations, but the price increases lead it to not competing as well with the other choices we would make. I suppose it just depends on who/what the competition is. I'm never going to tell people they should not go, or that it is not worth it. I can only speak for myself and relate the experiences and views of my family. Not trying to rally people to take my same position on any of it.

Tekneek

08-09-2010, 11:37 AM

I've talked to a few people that don't go all the time, but have gone maybe every 4-5 years. Most of them feel like Mickey has their hand in their pocket digging for dimes from the second they step on property.

That wasn't what they remember, and they were quite turned off...

So, not even frequent visitors are making these observations.

Hah. I have only talked to a few people who have gone once per decade since the opening. That is really the kind of thing they told me as well. While they could appreciate how much more there was to do these days, they said virtually the same thing (maybe even exactly the same thing) about Mickey digging through the pockets. I used to try to argue against their take on it...

azcavalier

08-09-2010, 12:09 PM

A few thoughts:

1. If you talk to people who only go once a decade, or every few years....well, people tend to remember things as being better in the past. Apparently, my grandma's biscuits have gotten better every year, even though no one has eaten one since 1972. The good ol' days weren't necessarily that good. In other words, as time passes, those who don't go to Disney very often might remember those first trips as being more wonderful than they really were, because it was new to them. Which brings up my second point...

2. For those of us who are fortunate enough to go fairly often, well, maybe the magic is running out. When my DW and I bought our current home, we really loved it. Now we've been in it for three years, and we notice all of the little quirks and problems with it. This window isn't square with the wall....there's a dip in the floor in the hallway....this stair tread isn't exactly level...etc, etc. We just laugh and say that those part of the house are "the parts the monkeys built". I think that the same can be said of WDW. If you go a lot, then you're going to notice things that you never noticed before. And, you'll tend to think that things are going downhill, when in reality, they've been there the entire time.

3. It could be possible that stuff that surprised you on your last trip or two have happened to other people in the past, and you've now been often enough to where you've seen it all, the good and the bad. I had been to WDW 6 or 7 times before I had a bad experience with a Cast Member. Did that make me think that WDW was going downhill because I met a rude CM? No. I thought, "Wow, that's a rude CM. Someone should set him straight." In the three or four trips since then, not a single problem, and have had wonderful CM encounters. An example of this is politics. I have heard many people complain about how nasty "politics have become", complaining of all the mudslinging and slandering that candidates do. Truth is, there was just as much mudslinging going on in the 1800's during political races. Politics haven't gotten any dirtier. We just have new media to view it on. It's just that they are here and now, and so it's more impactful than memories of past elections can be.

4. I wonder if there are more "rude CM's" during the high times than there are the low times. I would imagine that during those peak seasons, they have a harder time hiring quality CM's. We have *never* gone during a peak season. Maybe that is why we've never had many issues. The CM's that are working when we're there are either more full-timers who have a vested interest in being excellent CM's, or they are college kids on the internship program, who are just stoked to be there.

Mickey91

08-09-2010, 12:12 PM

I don't go for less than 7-days because it is too cost prohibitive.

Here again is one thing Disney has priced out. People who may only have a day or two to spend at WDW. It is just too expensive to do it. We made a one day trip in 2004 and it was one of the best days we have ever had at Disney. Maybe because we went specifically to have a fun DAY instead of trying to cram everything into a week of park hopping, ADRs, and stressed nerves. We were heading to another, closer destination and figured we could do a day at Disney for about the same price if not less. Not the case anymore.

Here are our ways to save money on trips

1. Stay at a Value resort. We do not spend enough time in a room to warrant the cost of more luxurious resorts.
2. Go during a slower season. Lower price for rooms and crowds. I cannot stand crowds.
3. Share meals instead of purchasing one for everybody.
4. Take breakfast foods: bagels, cereals, etc.
5. Bring your own drinks: Soda, alcohol, etc.
6. eBay for pin-trading. We just got 200 pins to trade for just over $100.
7. Tickets: Per day tickets go down drastically the longer you stay. Instead of Park Hoppers, look at the option of purchasing more days. Yes, you may use more than 1-ticket on a day, but the cost is cheaper than the Park Hopper option in many cases.

1. Value Resort - we usually stay here. But sometimes we just want to try something a little nicer.

2. Slower Season - Not always possible

3. Share meals - no longer a possibility

4. Bring breakfast - good idea

5. Bring own drinks - cost less but don't you get tired of carrying them around?

6.ebay pin trading - we have done this as well. But just because the pins we received seem very nice, I am still leery of this.

7. You cannot use an eight day base ticket to get into two parks for four days. And, to even purchase another single day ticket is more than adding the park hopper option.

Familiarity breeds contempt.

Disney used to be a save up and have that trip of a lifetime experience, now it is common for it to be an annual or semi-annual event for many many many families. Disney has made it too affordable and therefore it is full of people looking for Disney to hand them the magic, give them upgrades, get them to the front of the line. It is my opinion that if you are looking for declining service you are going to find it. Yes prices are going up, but that's part of life ... at least you are having fun at WDW (my gas bill does not give me as much enjoyment)! I am guilty of panning the restaurants at WDW saying that the quality has gone down ... has it, or am I just too familiar with things .... has some of the magic been lost because I am there so darned often that there isn't time to get the magic up to speed in my own mind again?

Just some food for thought.

This may have some basis, but where would Disney be without repeat guests? If no one bought an AP nor visited more than once in a lifetime, they would not still be there. Though there are many first timers every day, the parks could not operate without repeat guests. Therefore I believe it is their responsibility to keep the parks up to standard and train their cms to be courteous and professional. I also don't expect the nickle and diming for reduced service yet increased prices. I understand that prices need to go up to maintain the current expectations. But prices keep going up and items and service and quality keep disappearing. If I didn't go as often, I probably wouldn't notice as much. But since Disney can't survive without repeat guests, they need to keep up the standard for which they were always known.

BrerGnat

08-09-2010, 12:24 PM

4. I wonder if there are more "rude CM's" during the high times than there are the low times. I would imagine that during those peak seasons, they have a harder time hiring quality CM's. We have *never* gone during a peak season. Maybe that is why we've never had many issues. The CM's that are working when we're there are either more full-timers who have a vested interest in being excellent CM's, or they are college kids on the internship program, who are just stoked to be there.

I pretty much agree with your entire post, up until this point.

We went during PEAK season this year...the week leading up to Easter, and I cannot tell you how pleasant EVERY CM was. Even the landscapers would smile and wave from their mowers in the mornings!

I really think that you experience "bad CM" behavior when:

1. It's HOT. And HUMID.
2. The GUESTS are behaving "bad" themselves.

These are two very key points. I hardly hear stories about "bad CMs" from trips people take in winter, during value season.

While crowds were astronomical the week we were there this year, the weather was BEAUTIFUL all week. Everyone (guests and CMs) behaved. ;) It was like everyone had taken a happy pill...seriously. I could hardly believe it. I even commented on it in my trip reports.

I think it is easy to be crabby when you're hot and tired. It happens to EVERYONE. I'd challenge anyone who experiences "bad CM' behavior to come back when the weather is more agreeable, and see how agreeable the people as a whole can be as well.

azcavalier

08-09-2010, 12:36 PM

I pretty much agree with your entire post, up until this point.

We went during PEAK season this year...the week leading up to Easter, and I cannot tell you how pleasant EVERY CM was. Even the landscapers would smile and wave from their mowers in the mornings!

I really think that you experience "bad CM" behavior when:

1. It's HOT. And HUMID.
2. The GUESTS are behaving "bad" themselves.

These are two very key points. I hardly hear stories about "bad CMs" from trips people take in winter, during value season.

While crowds were astronomical the week we were there this year, the weather was BEAUTIFUL all week. Everyone (guests and CMs) behaved. ;) It was like everyone had taken a happy pill...seriously. I could hardly believe it. I even commented on it in my trip reports.

I think it is easy to be crabby when you're hot and tired. It happens to EVERYONE. I'd challenge anyone who experiences "bad CM' behavior to come back when the weather is more agreeable, and see how agreeable the people as a whole can be as well.

That's a good point. Since we've never been when it's been that hot and humid (though it was pretty bad last October), I can't comment on that. I was just wondering IF there was a correlation between peak times (so more CMs) and non-peak times (so less CMs), not saying that it was so.

TheVBs

08-09-2010, 12:42 PM

It's funny, but it's actually when we go to other destinations that we feel we're getting taken for every dime we've got. There's nothing like having to pay seperately for every single thing we want to do at a destination to make us feel appreciative of our Disney trips. We practice the great money saving tips BigRedDad listed and it's worked out wonderfully.

Honestly, if we were as disillusioned and disappointed in our WDW trips as some here seem to be, we would definitely vacation somewhere else. This isn't a knock or judgement on anyone else's experience. Just a suggestion that if you're really that unhappy with WDW as a destination, take the opportunity to enjoy some of the other wonderful destinations around.

marlyn

08-09-2010, 12:49 PM

There are many intersting points being brought up in this thread...

I agree that it is possible that the repeat visitors may have lost some of the "magic", but on the other hand, I also think that many repeat visitors see "magic" that goes missed by a first timer because we are looking for it.

I agree with Ian...WDW is still a great value compared to vacations elsewhere. If you plan to go to Mexico and just lie on the beach all day, that could be pretty inexpensive. But if you wish to get off the beach and do a few tours or such...get out your wallet. It is going to cost huge.

I don't necessarily expect Disney magic to be handed to me on a platter. I expect the CM I deal with to be pleasant, helpful and kind. Luckily that is what I have encountered and more. Many people I have dealt with have done more than I could have asked for. In fact, I have observed CM dealing with obnoxious, rude, demanding visitors and keeping their cool and being as pleasant as humanly possible. You know the CM probably wanted to kick their butts back to Rudeville where they came from...but they didn't as they obviously have more self restraint than I. :thedolls: I'm sure my time will come and I will encounter a rude CM. Not everyone is perfect and it must be hard to smile and watch everyone having fun all day ;)

As for the Magic I mentioned...it is always there for me. Most of it is in my imagination. It is how Disney makes me feel that is my magic. No CM has taken that away for me yet...and once I am there I don't think about how much it cost to get there. Yes, there are frequent requests for money, but I can choose NOT to by the photo taken of us when we entered Chef Mickeys or whatever else is being offered.

I am like Jennifer...I go in smiling. I can't help it cause I am so darned happy to be there. Compared to spending a day at the mall or at a local fair, Disney visitors and CM are wonderful to be around. The folks in my local community all seem rude and obnoxious in comparison...hmmm, maybe that is because they think they can't afford a Disney vacation! lol

HackLaSalle

08-09-2010, 12:57 PM

Just some food for thought. My girlfriend and I are splitting our stay in WDW in Decemeber. We have the dining plan and have to fly in.

Total for the trip is about a thousand dollars each. ALL INCLUSIVE. Hotel, park tickets, transportation, food all right there in the price.

We're going to Vermont from Thursday until Sunday this weekend: We already spent over 100 on food, Probably about 100 on gas, 636 on the hotel, and will probably end up spending a little more on adult beverages before we go AND while we're up there. So say that's an even 100 again. 936 dollars. In Vermont, there are no rides, no characters, no magic, nothing out of the ordinary. The only place I've seen that can match Disney's overall value is Vegas.

People are upset over Disney hiking prices but Universal has matched, rumor is Busch Garden is going to do the same. Even on Disney's WORST DAY they beat out those two parks. I love Universal but I can spend a half a day in each park and end up spending most of my time at CityWalk. Disney has free fast pass. If you pay at Universal you can jump the line.

I just don't understand where people aren't seeing the value of Disney. And yes it is growing at a rate a little bit faster than inflation and in my opinion that's not right but it's still a tremendous value.

Stickey

08-09-2010, 01:06 PM

A trip to WDW is not always perfect, however it remains a very good value. Some recent cut-backs are disappointing, but our overall experience at WDW has not been significantly impacted.

As some previous comments mentioned, the cost of other forms of entertainment are not inexpensive. The cost and quality of the experience will determine its value. I believe that a trip to WDW remains at least a very good value.

Now that does not exempt Disney and its management's decisions from scrutiny. Relaxing CM training and performance standards, reducing menus while increasing prices, eliminating character dining locations, the Fantasmic schedule, and poor additions(American Idol, Block Party Bash) have been disappointing. Disney must sharpen its focus on its core ideals in order to satisfy its long-term customers, while securing its future profitability and growth.

It appears that Diney's managing of its CM personnel is the leading challenge to ensuring a superior guest experience. Many look back to 10-20 years ago and see a decline. Unfortunately, society has changed and most individuals do not have the same values and commitment to their job. The need for 50,000+ cm's at WDW is also a problem. An increased emphasis on training and a goal of retaining a greater percentage of full-time/long-term cm's would improve performance as well as guest and cm satisfaction.

My most aggravating experiences at WDW have been caused by the lower caliber guests(those who cut lines, have little regard for WDW property, etc.) that often frequent WDW. We will not return in September after several consecutive yearly trips to WDW. Free dining has been too successful in increasing September volume. Our recent and future trips will be in a different month.

eeyorepoohfan

08-09-2010, 01:23 PM

I will continue to spend my money on a WDW vacation!!! I haven't been a frequent visitor, but my DH and I are trying to make it an annual trip now. We had such a wonderful and magical trip last December, we can't wait to get back there! Every CM we encountered was fantastic! I know a lot could have been because my DH and I were so excited for this trip, we probably never stopped smiling! We were celebrating our 7th anniversary and way belated honeymoon! We do not have a lot of money since we own our own business and pay so much out in taxes and overhead (but we love it anyway). So for us to be able to start taking vacations, we see going to WDW as a great way to spend our money. We have looked at going other places but can't just see sitting on a beach for days. We like to get up and move, go see things, do things, have fun!!! And as PP mentioned, you have to pay for each activity you want to do elsewhere. So for the price we pay to go to WDW, it's really not much more than going elsewhere in the end. We go during value season (early/mid-December) and stay at POP Century. We often share meals and snacks and even pack some of our own snacks to help keep costs down. My DH and I lived near Chicago for a few years and would go to Six Flags about once a year. When I look back to how much we spent there, I could have spent a little more for plane tickets and gone to WDW! Plus the employees and patrons of the park were very mouthy, had horrible attitutudes, and the language used was aweful! Now, I'm not saying that you don't have some of that at WDW, but the frequency at Six Flags was horrible to me!

For my DH to be asking me if we are going to be able to go to WDW this year, means so much to me! He wasn't raised in a Disney-family like I was (we frequented Disneyland with some Disney World thrown in). Last December was his first trip to WDW (besides a one day trip to EPCOT in Jr. High) and he absolutely love it! We may have to go to Disney on a budget, but we still have magical time!! The increase in costs won't deter us. Like a PP mentioned that ticket prices increases and other increases only add a small percentage to the cost of your trip. I am in the process of booking my trip for this December and have found the prices aren't much higher than last year. The actual big increase was plane ticket prices. The rest of the package itself (resort and park tickets) really didn't increase much.

TheVBs

08-09-2010, 01:27 PM

Ditto to that last part above. I priced out an Oct. 2011 vacation and the difference in cost from having priced out an Oct. 2010 vacation was minimal!! :mickey:

azcavalier

08-09-2010, 01:48 PM

Now that does not exempt Disney and its management's decisions from scrutiny. Relaxing CM training and performance standards, reducing menus while increasing prices, eliminating character dining locations, the Fantasmic schedule, and poor additions(American Idol, Block Party Bash) have been disappointing. Disney must sharpen its focus on its core ideals in order to satisfy its long-term customers, while securing its future profitability and growth.

It appears that Diney's managing of its CM personnel is the leading challenge to ensuring a superior guest experience. Many look back to 10-20 years ago and see a decline. Unfortunately, society has changed and most individuals do not have the same values and commitment to their job. The need for 50,000+ cm's at WDW is also a problem. An increased emphasis on training and a goal of retaining a greater percentage of full-time/long-term cm's would improve performance as well as guest and cm satisfaction.

I agree with this. I actually find it fascinating, as I was a corporate trainer for years, and had to figure out ways to effectively train large numbers of employees in various ways (you can't always put them into a classroom). I'm currently working on a Master's degree in just this sort of thing. I would *love* a job working for Disney, if they have some kind of education/training department.

My most aggravating experiences at WDW have been caused by the lower caliber guests(those who cut lines, have little regard for WDW property, etc.) that often frequent WDW. We will not return in September after several consecutive yearly trips to WDW. Free dining has been too successful in increasing September volume. Our recent and future trips will be in a different month.

Admittedly, we have changed our trip schedules to go during free dining, as it just saves us so darn much money. But, my DW tries to be crafty, and shows up on the last day of the offering, and as such we get it for our entire stay. In her mind, the crowds are smaller because for all but the first day of our trip, those guests aren't getting free dining (unless they're as crafty as we were). Now, I don't really believe that is the case. Especially last year and our upcoming trip this October, as Disney has extended the free dining pretty much all Fall. We'll see! I do know that next year, my wife has already decided to skip free dining, and we're going to go in early December. She misses the Christmas decorations.

Mickey91

08-09-2010, 01:53 PM

I do know that next year, my wife has already decided to skip free dining, and we're going to go in early December. She misses the Christmas decorations.

Please note that for your enjoyment you should book the second full week of December to avoid Pop Warner unless their contract is not renewed. Very crowded and people are a little more rude during that first week. But still wonderful if it is all you can do.

MississippiDisneyFreak

08-09-2010, 02:11 PM

I doubt I'd quit going completely, but we can only afford to go once every three years already. We probably just probably add another year on between visits....:(

Tekneek

08-09-2010, 02:13 PM

My most aggravating experiences at WDW have been caused by the lower caliber guests(those who cut lines, have little regard for WDW property, etc.) that often frequent WDW.

I don't know that I would use the term "lower caliber", per se, but I would agree that the worst behavior anywhere on Disney property tends to be from the guests (as you might expect, anyway). On that end, the worst appeared to be good ol' Americans and not the tour group kids that are so maligned on this board and others (at least during the time we were there).

I totally understand the effects of environment on human behavior, even how people untrained in mindfulness find it hard to reset their internal barometer after each encounter and therefore carry some of those negative feelings into the next one. I just expected Disney to work better at it. We've been there in July before and I could never remember hearing the kind of snarky comments the CMs were delivering on this past one. I attributed it to them hiring on a bunch of part-timers who simply don't care or have not been trained to do so. Ultimately, that is a reflection upon Disney.

I never intended to say that there are not great ones out there, nor that they are hard to find. We encountered them often. We just encountered far more of the others than we could ever recall from before.

The only relation these have to price increases is that it seems to fit into the overall trend (which means there will obviously be exceptions) of paying more for less at Disney. I am not really interested in comparing Disney to anyone but themselves. The history of Disney is one of a company that was a leader. Not one that judged itself by its competitors. It wanted to be in a different league and set new standards for quality. To me, going to Walt Disney World is not about a comparison to all the other possible choices. It is about it being the same quality, or hopefully better, than it was the last time we went. In many ways they hold up reasonably well, but the number of ways they fall short seem to be on the increase.

As a result, taking all of it into consideration, we're backing away a little bit. We've got a wealth of life experiences closer to home, and less expensive, that we've not finished exploring. We'll concentrate on getting the most out of those in the years before we go back. With any luck, we will be totally impressed once again and want to be back. If not, we will continue to spend time away. I don't feel like we're losing anything. We're just making other choices.

Dsnygirl

08-09-2010, 02:24 PM

I haven't read every post of this thread, but I think it brings up a LOT of valid points.

We first went as a family in '06, and have been lucky enough to have had 4 trips since then - two short, two long.

We are skipping this year just because the $3K we usually spend, on average, is going into work around the house that we just can't put off and justify into a trip instead. :blush:

Because of the cost of airfare and the decreased cost per day with the park tickets, I foresee many of our trips continuing down the "longer trip" path, as it significantly cuts down on the cost per day. This is particularly true as Disney continues to raise prices -- I can't imagine spending $800 for our family to be in the parks only a few days. OUCH!!

We are also considering a DVC membership - not because we think it's a huge cost savings, but we know we will continue to go over the years, and it will (hopefully) cut down on the cost of inflation on the room prices.

So, yes, I do feel the cost of visiting Disney is high - and yes, this year, it did keep us from going. But, that was a choice we made to spend the money on a different priority - not because we felt we couldn't afford it.

I also think the cost of MOST vacations is high, esp if you have to fly there -- you just don't usually pre-pay for all the things you're going to do like you do at Disney (aka pre-buying the park tickets in a package, etc) and thus it doesn't make the initial outlay seem as high. But, if you're going to go on tours, go to an amusement park one day, a water park another day, spend a day on a boardwalk playing games, riding rides and eating, spend another at the beach renting watercraft/rafts/boogie boards, etc... it's all going to add up in the end very similarly to Disney's park tickets for a week or so.

But -- one thing I agree with here that has been mentioned quite a few times -- visting other parks/attractions, even locally, makes me realize that some of Disney's pricing really isn't that far out of the realm of normality.

We've been pricing out two "long wknd" trips - one to Boston, one to Bar Harbor. For lodging similar to Disney's moderate or deluxe room, we've not found a single room that costs less than Disney's prices, and many that cost more. Some may have a better view, that is true, but other than our stay at AKL (and our honeymoon in Jamaica ;)) I can honestly say I have never really just gazed out the window of my room for more than 5 or 10 minutes and said, "Ahhhh". At Disney, I say "ahhh" just being IN my room! :blush:

As well, on our recent trip to Maine, we didn't find a single place to eat that cost less than Disney - and many with less ambiance.

And last but not least -- our recent trip to our local Renaissance Festival. Yes, it only cost $83 for our family of four to get in. (From 10am-7pm) And yes, we saw fantastic performers and some great shows. But the food?? Crazy expensive, and nowhere near Disney quality, even at the least fave take-out spots.

So... I say it's all in how you travel, what you expect, and what means the most to you. And of course, where & how you find your magic. If you watch for deals, pick your spots and travel times carefully, you can make a Disney trip very comparable to others.

For us, just walking down Main St gives us enough joy to last the time away from our happy place - souveneirs are nice, special meals and nice accomodations are even nicer - but they don't matter as much as just "being there." And there is no price tag on that - maybe just a longer wait at times to get there. :cloud9:

ANG

08-09-2010, 02:35 PM

Not much considering we are DVC members:mickey:

Mickey91

08-09-2010, 04:44 PM

I don't know that I would use the term "lower caliber", per se, but I would agree that the worst behavior anywhere on Disney property tends to be from the guests (as you might expect, anyway). On that end, the worst appeared to be good ol' Americans and not the tour group kids that are so maligned on this board and others (at least during the time we were there).

I totally understand the effects of environment on human behavior, even how people untrained in mindfulness find it hard to reset their internal barometer after each encounter and therefore carry some of those negative feelings into the next one. I just expected Disney to work better at it. We've been there in July before and I could never remember hearing the kind of snarky comments the CMs were delivering on this past one. I attributed it to them hiring on a bunch of part-timers who simply don't care or have not been trained to do so. Ultimately, that is a reflection upon Disney.

I never intended to say that there are not great ones out there, nor that they are hard to find. We encountered them often. We just encountered far more of the others than we could ever recall from before.

The only relation these have to price increases is that it seems to fit into the overall trend (which means there will obviously be exceptions) of paying more for less at Disney. I am not really interested in comparing Disney to anyone but themselves. The history of Disney is one of a company that was a leader. Not one that judged itself by its competitors. It wanted to be in a different league and set new standards for quality. To me, going to Walt Disney World is not about a comparison to all the other possible choices. It is about it being the same quality, or hopefully better, than it was the last time we went. In many ways they hold up reasonably well, but the number of ways they fall short seem to be on the increase.

As a result, taking all of it into consideration, we're backing away a little bit. We've got a wealth of life experiences closer to home, and less expensive, that we've not finished exploring. We'll concentrate on getting the most out of those in the years before we go back. With any luck, we will be totally impressed once again and want to be back. If not, we will continue to spend time away. I don't feel like we're losing anything. We're just making other choices.
Couldn't have said it better. And, more than complaining about how things are, I was just curious how Disney will survive their own short sightedness in believing rising costs and disappearing perks will continue to generate more guests. I feel they have the mentality that "we're Disney, we can do anything and people will still come" and that may be true to a degree. But look at how many posts out of less than 100 that will either cut back their frequency or duration simply because they have to with the rising costs. And there IS more comparison with other venues because Disney has lowered themselves to that point. At one time, you could not have said anything about going anywhere else without me saying " you just don't get the magic of Disney"...Now, I'm actually considering curtailing our trips and trying other places because I can't get the Disney vacation for the same cost or just a fraction more. I think it is hurting them more than they will admit. Because of their discounts they think they have a reason to put up less profit. But we have gone when discounts were a whole lot better and Disney was still claiming they were very well. Time will tell and I hope I am wrong.

Ian

08-09-2010, 05:18 PM

I feel they have the mentality that "we're Disney, we can do anything and people will still come" and that may be true to a degree.I don't think there's any reason to speculate about that. I'd wager just about anything that it's 100% accurate that that's how they feel.

But you need to look no further than GM to see how long that approach lasts. When you have the levels of brand loyalty that a Disney or a GM has you can exploit that for a long, long time and people will still come.

But eventually ... eventually ... circumstances will arise that will bring that home to roost. I won't be shocked if less than 20 years from now Disney World is in really bad financial shape.

BellesRose

08-09-2010, 05:59 PM

I realize that Disney is a business and that they are there to make money. I really do. And I'll be the first to admit that I don't have a clue as to how a business works. But I do know that a business needs to keep customers happy to keep them coming back. I realize that it's impossible to make every single person happy, but when you just stop trying altogether, it affects the majority of the customers you need. If Disney stays on the track of raising prices while declining in customer service, I have no doubt they'll be hurting sooner than you think.

It's strange, because last time I was at Disney, I stopped and looked around and thought, "Will this be here 200 years from now? What about 100?" I've always imagined that it will always be there, but nothing is permanent.

Daisy'sMom

08-09-2010, 06:15 PM

Disney has to pay for their new community for the rich and famous.
We have APs and have found that we have gone less and less than the past few years. The money adds up there and we are saving for Italy. We will still go over for a week in the fall, we still drive over at least once a month, but the last two times, we went to DTD and that satisfied our Disney fix.:mickey:

#1donaldfan

08-09-2010, 06:36 PM

We will go as long as we have the money....we don't overspend, I don't thinkl, but we do like Disney, so if the price is right and we have it, we'll go.....!!:thumbsup:

lovinmesomedisney

08-10-2010, 09:18 AM

We go every year, and sometimes twice a year. Honestly, when you purchase a package, it is waaay cheaper than going to a whole lot of other places. We always go for free dining and stay in a value resort. We are "Park People," who spend very little time at the resort. I see this as an all inclusive vacation, and we have 4 people in a room for six nights, free dining plan, 7 day base ticket, and hotel all for $1500. I just got back from Branson last week and it costs more there. You have to pay for each individual thing you do. I will continue to go to Disney, even if they do raise prices. It is still a better deal than traveling to other destinations.

WDWgoofy

08-10-2010, 09:53 AM

I believe WDW has never recovered from the huge tourist slowdown that followed 9/11. Attendance fell unexpectedly and dramatically and WDW has been reeling ever since. Big layoffs followed and many excellent CMs were lost. Other costs were slashed while attendance prices rose. Not a good combination.

Today the economy is stagnant, corporate support is absent, so WDW is stuck doing what it can. Disney is a mirror of the US and neither are able to right themselves.

As for me, we cannot afford family vacations.

I try to make it by for a day occasionally when business takes me to central FL and when I do get by it is a melancholy experience as the parks do not exude the magic they once did.

TikiLounger

08-10-2010, 10:37 AM

Okay, so...I started out trying to read every post in this thread (it's a very interesting discussion...really) so I'd be sure to have some kind of valid point to add, but, I'm running out of time this morning and I didn't get to them all...so...forgive me if I repeat someone else's point.

I just have to say that yes, over the years we've noticed a major decline in the quality of a Disney vacation. Everything from the maintenance and upkeep of the parks, CM attitude (we, too, have run into a few with some serious attitude), food quality and choice, and value. While it makes us sad and sometimes annoyed that what we came to love and expect is no longer there, we still enjoy our Disney vacations and will continue to go. Like other posters have already stated, our trips to other destinations (Hawaii, Atlantis, and Mexico to be specific) were much more expensive and fraught with ridiculous customer service issues, as well. So, we just roll with it and try to remember that it's the same everywhere. Prices increase and the experience declines. We just try and pick and choose if and when we complain and if we do, we hope that eventually, when enough customers express their displeasure, the message will finally hit home and changes will be made. I know...it's probably not going to happen, but we remain optimistic.

Also, I just want to add this small observation. We've only used the Dining Plan (it was free QS promotion) once out of all of our trips so I'm no expert here, but we noticed an awful lot of wasted food during that trip...wasted by us and, because we were more aware, wasted by many others, too. We saw unopened desserts tossed in the trash cans in every food court and quick service restaurant we dined at. We don't eat dessert with every meal and we finally started refusing the desserts that came with them. I just have to wonder, because we know Disney management has noticed the waste too, if items offered on the Dining Plan get dropped or adjusted because of the absurd amounts of perfectly good food that gets tossed on a daily basis. I have no idea...it's just a thought.

jdpip

08-10-2010, 11:14 AM

I feel like we've been fortunate in that we have been able to experience WDW on a budget through the years by camping at Fort Wilderness. We eat breakfast in the motorhome, maybe take something into the park or go back when we get hungry. We've always done everything at our own pace, no reservations for any dining, eat when we get hungry and it works for us. It's more relaxing that way and definitely less expensive. DH would rather hang out at FtW fishing or riding around on the golf cart! Disney will always make money and its frustrating that they take the perks away.

Tekneek

08-10-2010, 11:35 AM

I just have to wonder, because we know Disney management has noticed the waste too, if items offered on the Dining Plan get dropped or adjusted because of the absurd amounts of perfectly good food that gets tossed on a daily basis. I have no idea...it's just a thought.

Assuming that was the motivation, why would it necessitate a price increase to go along with it? Seems like they would now be saving money on the wasted food items, so the price increase is just increasing the profit over that.

TikiLounger

08-10-2010, 11:41 AM

Assuming that was the motivation, why would it necessitate a price increase to go along with it? Seems like they would now be saving money on the wasted food items, so the price increase is just increasing the profit over that.

You're right...I was just musing about the motivation behind cutting or adjusting the Dining Plans, not necessarily about the price increases. I assumed they'd see the waste, cut out the items to save money, and still raise the prices to make more of a profit.

Plex

08-10-2010, 11:45 AM

Assuming that was the motivation, why would it necessitate a price increase to go along with it? Seems like they would now be saving money on the wasted food items, so the price increase is just increasing the profit over that.

You don't necessarily know what the price increase would have been if they kept the packages exactly the same. It's not a choice of one or the other - they may have just found a happy medium. (Or at least happy for their accounting department!)

There's been some debate on whether or not DDP actually saves people money anyway, so more people might just be opting out now if they feel that it provides less value to them.

Tekneek

08-10-2010, 12:12 PM

There's been some debate on whether or not DDP actually saves people money anyway, so more people might just be opting out now if they feel that it provides less value to them.

Of course, which makes me think it was their long term plan from the start. Introduce this dining plan, which initially is a good value for many. Then you slowly drop things out of it and raise the price. Meanwhile, hoping along the way that people are either now jacked into the convenience of it or mistakenly believing it is the same value that it once was. I know, this is how big business operates, but Disney gets away with it even better than others because of their reputation as a "quality first" enterprise.

I think this standard business approach is going to have hidden costs for a company whose reputation was built on not being just like everybody else.

Mickey91

08-10-2010, 04:52 PM

I think this standard business approach is going to have hidden costs for a company whose reputation was built on not being just like everybody else.
Again, hitting the nail of this whole thread on the head! Quick! We need to find another thread to disagree on! LOL! We have been agreeing entirely too much this week!:mickey:

ravsluvdisney

08-10-2010, 05:25 PM

Ahh, I don't really need 2 lungs....! :)

Up until our last trip we had noticed a drop-off in the quality of the magic with a drop in CS friendliness, fewer CS' as a whole (could explain point #1), some cleanliness issues, etc. which have always been the strong suit of WDW. Our past trip however we seemed to notice a much friendlier environment with CS' always around with a "hi", smile, a mickey high-4 and so on. They do make you pinch and scrimp to get there, but this place could never be confused with buying a fistful of tickets at the local carnival!

Ian

08-10-2010, 08:16 PM

Of course, which makes me think it was their long term plan from the start. Introduce this dining plan, which initially is a good value for many. Then you slowly drop things out of it and raise the price. Meanwhile, hoping along the way that people are either now jacked into the convenience of it or mistakenly believing it is the same value that it once was.I agree with this completely. Actually, this is their model for pretty much everything isn't it?

DVC has been this way, the DDP, the new and "improved" Magic "Your" Way ticket pricing structure ... they lure you in with a good deal, stick some "program subject to change without notice" language in your agreements, and then slowly nickel and dime you to death over the next five years.

Another thing I wanted to note is this ... I've been on the INTERCOT staff for more than a decade now. I've read a lot of posts and threads over the years and I can say without a doubt that when I started negative comments were one in a million. You almost never saw a complaint and if you did it was more of a, "Gee I can't believe this happened to me, because things are always perfect in Disney World!" kind of complaint.

Nowadays, though, it's rare for a single week to go by without multiple complaint threads popping up ... resort rooms not being cleaned properly, rude CM's, cutbacks, price increases ... you name it.

So, at best, I think it's a near certainty that Disney's service has if nothing else become inconsistent. You see people who notice the issues and people who still claim to have world class experiences in Disney World.

IMO, though, for a company like Disney inconsistent is just as bad as being bad across the board. Disney sells the experience and they sell it at a premium price. If people start to learn that you can't count on the experience consistently being great ... well ... I think that spells trouble.

LVT

08-10-2010, 09:58 PM

I was in Busch Gardens, Universal and Disney in May 2009. We were in WDW 15 days, Universal
1.5 days (7 day ticket but no one in family wanted more). We also went to Seaworld. These "other" parks are worth a day each. We are all adults and going back to WDW for 14 days next year. Universal's HP will get a day. The experiences don't even come close for us. 3 guys and the mother.

Dsnygirl

08-10-2010, 10:35 PM

Nowadays, though, it's rare for a single week to go by without multiple complaint threads popping up ... resort rooms not being cleaned properly, rude CM's, cutbacks, price increases ... you name it.

IMO, though, for a company like Disney inconsistent is just as bad as being bad across the board. Disney sells the experience and they sell it at a premium price. If people start to learn that you can't count on the experience consistently being great ... well ... I think that spells trouble.

Ian, I think you're hitting the danger zone for Disney perfectly. People are willing to pay for magic, for an experience, if it is an overall feeling throughout their entire trip. But when you start getting dirty rooms, rude CM's, broken rides, fewer unique souveneirs/foods/shows and a general feeling that everything is being "blended" into being one & the same throughout the parks, instead of feeling like you're getting a unique experience in each, then people are going to be less willing to fork out the extra $$.

And I TOTALLY agree with the thought behind what Tekneek said about Disney introducing something as "new, unique, the best thing since sliced bread, look at all we're giving you" and then slowly, piecing it apart until the product a few years later is a mere shadow of what was first offered. It's part of the reason my DH and I have never bought into the DDP or now even DVC... it sounds so good, but then listening to people who bought years ago and now are disgruntled with everything they've lost, it loses it's luster.

That being said, Disney IS still magic, and we'll continue to go as long as our kids love it and it brings us the joy it always has... but it'll probably be a bit less frequent as time goes by, and once the kids are big? I'm sure we'll still visit, esp. when something new opens, but unless Disney puts the bandages on what's bleeding, I'm not sure it will be as big a part of our future as we used to think it would be.

Tekneek

08-10-2010, 11:19 PM

...we'll continue to go as long as our kids love it and it brings us the joy it always has...

Our next trip is part of a promise made to one of our children. She's the only one that hasn't had a chance to celebrate a birthday there, so we feel obligated to make it happen for her. When we return to WDW after that will have a lot to do with how that trip goes.

Mickey91

08-11-2010, 12:08 AM

Our next trip is part of a promise made to one of our children. She's the only one that hasn't had a chance to celebrate a birthday there, so we feel obligated to make it happen for her. When we return to WDW after that will have a lot to do with how that trip goes.

I agree. But we used to just know we would be planning our next trip before we made it off WDW
property.

Ian

08-11-2010, 08:24 AM

A huge difference in terms of my dynamic with Disney World is this ... when DD was born back in 2002 I was like, "Sweet! Now I have an excuse to go to Disney World more often!"

DW and I went to Disney World together something like a dozen or more times before our kids were born and we really, really loved it. We even honeymooned there.

But to be perfectly honest, I could take it or leave it at this point. If I didn't have kids who loved going, I doubt I'd go back. We used to go like two or three times a year at least. We've been once this year and are going back in December, but only because my brother is getting married down there. If not for that, I'm not sure when the next time would have been.

If it wasn't for my kids, I think I can definitively say that I'd probably sell my DVC and make Disney World a once every couple years kind of thing. I might visit DIsneyland more frequently, but WDW not so much.

Mickey91

08-11-2010, 08:40 AM

I have to admit, my DH and I are the driving forces behind every trip. My DD(12) still gets a little excited but our DS(16) would rather visit a concrete slab with roller coasters on every square inch. I still catch him enjoying himself when he thinks no one is looking, but he complains far more than anyone should when at the World. I sincerely hope he comes back around to seeing the magic.

But, we find it less and less satisfying ourselves. I used to scrimp and save and eat mac n cheese a lot so we could go for a week and really have a great experience. But the experiences have left us feeling a bit deflated the last few years and we wonder why we scrimp so much to go. Now we keep going back hoping to recapture the magic that was lost. My main reason for this trip is to see MSEP. I cannot wait to see it! I hope the changes won't ruin the experience as I have read the music was tweaked a little and that is my favorite part aside from the Eliot float. Plus I was excited to ride TTMM but it is now down for a line refurb...just my luck.

PopPhan

08-11-2010, 09:22 AM

Another thing I wanted to note is this ... I've been on the INTERCOT staff for more than a decade now. I've read a lot of posts and threads over the years and I can say without a doubt that when I started negative comments were one in a million. You almost never saw a complaint and if you did it was more of a, "Gee I can't believe this happened to me, because things are always perfect in Disney World!" kind of complaint.

Nowadays, though, it's rare for a single week to go by without multiple complaint threads popping up ... resort rooms not being cleaned properly, rude CM's, cutbacks, price increases ... you name it.

Ian, do you really believe that the increase in negative posts comes from worsening conditions in/at/around WDW or could it be that not everyone is "drinking the kool-aid" anymore. (BTW - How many people that use that phrase actually know what it refers to? I remember the Jonestown Massacre well, but a lot of the posters here were not even born when it occurred!)

I'm thinking that it is actually a combination -- Things are not as "magical" as they used to be at/in/around WDW, but also people are not feeling like they will be ostracized for less than glowing comments about WDW, and Disney in general.

Also, in this weakened economy, aren't people hoping/wanting/expecting to get more for their hard earned money and are more vocal about it when they don't?

Just my 2 cents....Please take them with a healthy dose of salt!!! :D

Mickey91

08-11-2010, 10:02 AM

Ian, do you really believe that the increase in negative posts comes from worsening conditions in/at/around WDW:D

I certainly think so. My more negative comments are in direct relation to the lessened quality and magic in our vacation. And I don't mean the magic that just happens if there is something special going on and I don't need a towel animal in my room to feel the magic. But the little things. The paint isn't as fresh, the bathrooms aren't as clean, many activities have had little things taken away, less live entertainment at resorts and before shows, CMs who would rather pick their nose than be courteous to guests needing help. Be given a horrible woods view room instead of the garden view you paid for and telling you to be happy you have a room. This is not the way of Disney in the past and used to be a rare occurrence but has become common place. And, since this is a fan site, we are all mostly regular visitors and are all becoming a bit irritated with people messing with our magic!

Ian

08-11-2010, 10:20 AM

Ian, do you really believe that the increase in negative posts comes from worsening conditions in/at/around WDW or could it be that not everyone is "drinking the kool-aid" anymore.I think it's a little of both, actually. I mean where there's smoke there's fire, right?

The dynamic is probably something along the lines of service and quality decline, a few die-hards notice and talk about it on the boards, people pooh-pooh them for being too negative. But then a few more people become attuned to it and notice a decline and then they talk about it. Gradually as it gets discussed more and more it becomes more mainstream and not as easily shouted down.

I can tell you definitively for me, though, that I absolutely notice a significant decline in both service and quality in Disney World over the last decade.

(BTW - How many people that use that phrase actually know what it refers to? I remember the Jonestown Massacre well, but a lot of the posters here were not even born when it occurred!) Sadly, I was born then and I know the origin of that saying, as well.

Ms. Mode

08-11-2010, 10:49 AM

Mickey91

08-11-2010, 11:05 AM

My thought is that they should stop offering the discounts, then they can lower the price overall!

As for the cost, I'm going to WDW as often as I can! We have only stayed at the Deluxe Resort once, if that means I'm going back to POP...well...ok! :mickey:
Sad part is, with the current Disney mentality, the discounts are bound to disappear and the price overall (without discount to start with)will remain the same or go up, all while they continue to make cuts in quality and service.

Bass T-bone

08-11-2010, 11:18 AM

Remember gas wars? haha...

What we need is a good old fashion theme park war!

Yes my friends, this is a sticky wicket and I'm afraid there's no turning back. As for discounts, I think its all an illusion anyway. Free dining is a good example. Yes, the dining might be free, but you're paying rack room rates if you take the dining option.

Jll3Sonex

08-11-2010, 12:36 PM

Ian, I think you're hitting the danger zone for Disney perfectly. People are willing to pay for magic, for an experience, if it is an overall feeling throughout their entire trip. But when you start getting dirty rooms, rude CM's, broken rides, fewer unique souveneirs/foods/shows and a general feeling that everything is being "blended" into being one & the same throughout the parks, instead of feeling like you're getting a unique experience in each, then people are going to be less willing to fork out the extra $$.

And I TOTALLY agree with the thought behind what Tekneek said about Disney introducing something as "new, unique, the best thing since sliced bread, look at all we're giving you" and then slowly, piecing it apart until the product a few years later is a mere shadow of what was first offered. It's part of the reason my DH and I have never bought into the DDP or now even DVC... it sounds so good, but then listening to people who bought years ago and now are disgruntled with everything they've lost, it loses it's luster.

That being said, Disney IS still magic, and we'll continue to go as long as our kids love it and it brings us the joy it always has... but it'll probably be a bit less frequent as time goes by, and once the kids are big? I'm sure we'll still visit, esp. when something new opens, but unless Disney puts the bandages on what's bleeding, I'm not sure it will be as big a part of our future as we used to think it would be.

Disney is still magic - but the magic is a bit on the tarnished and unreliable side. The last time we visited (LOVE the sites at Ft Wilderness, BTW) I was struck by a number of things that just didn't quite do it.

We went to the buffet in FtW - and despite the large number of empty tables we saw were told that there were no seats available... and after a quick perusal of the buffet didn't see it as much of a loss. (Maybe there was another buffet line we didn't see, but what was there wasn't worth the price.) It was disappointing, but for the best, because we got one of their family fried chicken dinners, the "Giddyup and Go" - and had enough chicken and leftovers for lunch the next day. Magic had hit - even though it was unexpected.

Other things weren't quite so. The TTC was, for lack of a better term, grubby. Light fixtures had spots of rust (!) and the skylights were dirty. Various rides didn't seem to be working quite right, and all in all things weren't as 'shiny' as they used to be.

Disney used to be AMAZING. Sparkling clean, incredible tech, I loved Future World, Tomorrowland, the whole experience.

But now? It feels kind of worn around the edges - not quite enough cleaning, not quite enough maintenance or paint - and in all honesty the endless parade of shops selling all sorts of Disney stuff doesn't thrill me. Yeah, it's cute stuff - but... meh. That's not what I go to Disney for.

Last big new ride was Soarin'. Before that was Mission:Space - I've ridden that maybe ten, twelve times since it opened. Soarin'? Once was enough. Cute idea, but...

Not everything will please everyone (The SSE refurb... lost something in the translation.) but it seems like they're taking the 'neat' out. Ice Station Cool was neat - the 'Club Cool' is just another store with Beverly.

I still think it's all a good value - but it's good sliding towards iffy, where it used to be good to exceptional. (And for reference, 'iffy' is about where I put Six Flags.)

Maybe they'll change - maybe there's something totally amazing in the pipeline that will revamp everything within 5 years. (Likely not..:shrug:) But something needs to be done, something needs to change.

Mickey'sGirl

08-11-2010, 01:13 PM

I agree. But we used to just know we would be planning our next trip before we made it off WDW
property.
So did we. We had often already made some kind of reservation before the first trip was even made!

This year was different though -- we did feel like we were paying more for less (and we were staying on DVC points!) during our trip in May. I was overwhelmed by the poor quality of the food at the restaurants (or our perceived poor quality as the case may be) ... and the huge cost for it (and we had the 20% TiW discount). We had only three meals where we said "Yeah! That was GREAT!" (Those meals were at Kouzzina (TS), The Tangierine Cafe (QS) and Wolfgang Puck's Express(QS)). We felt like we were watching every cent we spent, because the cents were slipping through our fingers faster than ever (and we don't buy souveniers).

Don't get me wrong ... we enjoyed our holiday well enough, but we also felt like perhaps we've had enough of WDW for a while. We've decided to take a break for a couple of years (where in the past we were making 2 or 3 trips per year). We might break down and book an earlier holiday, but as it stands now, we are not so keen.

Tekneek

08-11-2010, 01:53 PM

[COLOR="Green"][FONT="Comic Sans MS"]My thought is that they should stop offering the discounts, then they can lower the price overall!

Lowering the price is a last resort. It sends all the wrong messages to the business analysts that essentially don't understand what the business is anyway. They get more credit from those analysts for raising the prices on a regular schedule, even if it is negated by discounts offered later in the year (especially when they do it via dining plan and other packages, which are probably not understood by the influential analysts).

MOJoe

08-11-2010, 01:56 PM

Wow. I am nearly dumbfounded that this question could generate such a huge thread. Obviously all is not well in WDW. Where there is smoke there must be fire, indeed.

While i haven't been on Intercot as long as some, i can remember when reports of poor customer service were met with a mix of surprise and disbelief. Very rarely were there any "me too's" that added to the thread. So when a pooly designed poll (no offense Mickey91) gets people talking like this, you know the Kool-Aid isn't working like it used to.

For my family, we will continue to visit WDW. Although we took a break this year, stayed in our home state, and had a great trip, it didn't compare to our Disney vacations. We are some of the lucky ones, i suppose. The Disney Magic seems to follow us around when we are there. Using Intercot probably has helped, as a poorly planned Disney trip has the potential to be a real headache. But i digress.

I've never had a bad experience with any CM. In fact, many have gone way beyond the call of duty to make our vacations the best ever. Can't say that i've ever noticed anything being really run down or filthy. And since i run a small business, i am acutely aware that the cost of running a business has increased greatly in the past few years. So price increases everywhere, including WDW, don't automatically equate to corporate greed.

Anyway, maybe the Kool-Aid still works on me. Because i still think as i'm spending my hard earned dollars for a vacation, WDW is the happiest place on earth. Although watching my beloved St. Louis Cardinals at Busch Stadium in the middle of an 8 game winning streak is probably the 2nd happiest place on earth. (Sorry all you Dodgers and Phillies fans!) But while our recent Cardinal vacation was perfect, you just can't count on a victory. The magic can't be found every day. Only in WDW is that possible. Until that is no longer true, we'll keep going back.

1goofydad

08-11-2010, 02:31 PM

We returned about a week ago. I have to agree with all points made. We have been going yearly since 1992 and had been noticing a gradual decrease but overall it is still a very magical place. The past few trips we skiped the parks all together and yes only went one day on one trip. we are DVC members, joined in 2005, and enjoy the resorts more than before. The DVC membership has paid for itself.
There have been bad experiences with our stays and Disney does make a very good attempt most of the time and making it up to the guest but not always. One time we were staying at Saratoga, parked unloaded the van, hauled the luggage upstairs and put the room key in, the proceeded to walk in on a family eatting dinner!:blush: we lugged everything back down to the van, drove back up front and rechecked in. I think we got an appology but thats it. I have heard this has happened to others. On this past trip we stayed at AKL (trip reports coming soon). We had a 2 bedroom dedicated and that room was occupied also, by ANTS. Yep, every room, master living and 2nd bedroom. They offered to move us. My wife and McMouses wife walked to the new room with a Disney rep. They came back less than pleased:mad:. They could hear yelling and screaming from the neighbor next store to the new room and even the Disney rep said no way. So we asked for them to spray the room and gave our cell #. 5 hours later we returned, no note, no message and no call to the cell phone. After about an hour we were told they had come and sprayed, but did not check in or out with the front desk. Well if they did come they are still alive. The pest guy came back again, this time arounfd 1115 at nite and sprayed sugar water to attract the ants and carry the bait back to the nest, and explained it is against policy to spray something that would kill them since a guest was occupying the room and it would take 5 days for the ants to be gone. They did not even vaccum the ants up!. We had not choice but to stay in the room that night and were moved the next afternoon. They issued a credit for the first night stay and had done a few other things but if McMouse and his wife had not gone down to do a face to face with someone, I realy don't think anything above moving to a new room would have been done.

I think if they did not have the free dining and free magical express park tickets would not have to continually go up. The money needs to come from somewhere. Frankly if I could go during the free dining period, I would love to take advantage of that, but due to school and band schedules, we can not take advantage of that. The price of meals is pretty much forcing people to buy the dining plan. Seriously to charge extra because of the time of year is ridiculous. Buffet is like $40 per person including a drink. Ouch!:( We like to eat out but it is nice to have the full kitchen. We only ate dinner once this trip, all other meals were in room. Instead of the freebies, maybe they should spend some more on the up keep of the parks and resorts. has anyone notice how worn, dirty and fadded the carpet is at Mickey Philharmagic:sick:? There is no excuse.

It is more cost effective to stay long and get the free dinning. But who can take off 2 weeks at a time form their job or take the kids out of school?

PinKy

08-11-2010, 02:36 PM

We're DVC members - so we'll continue to go..... we only have so much $ to go around though so if prices rise that are out of proportion with our income we will just likely spread out our trips and go less often. (totally agree about all the 'little things' that have been taken away from the parks/packages, etc - I think that is everywhere though - the economy has tanked and times are tough!) As far as CMs go - I dunno - we've had 2 bad experiences (1 awful, 1 just "bad") - I do think that CMs at Disney are still friendlier and more helpful than most hospitality staff at other resorts/parks.

Dsnygirl

08-11-2010, 03:44 PM

I agree. But we used to just know we would be planning our next trip before we made it off WDW
property.

We have been the same way, always talking about when we're going back on the flight home. But this last time, and maybe it was b/c it was our longest trip yet, we weren't. We knew how much the trip had cost us (11 days in October) and weren't anxious to make that kind-of dent in our budget again so quickly.

So, we took this year off.

Now, that's not to say I'm not looking at the upcoming F&W Festival info that's coming out and not feeling the pangs - I sure am.

But - between having kids that are now getting too old to pull out of school for anything longer than a long wknd (thus making a longer, summer trip the only option for awhile), the desire to take them (and ourselves) to a lot of other beautiful places around the country and the realization that no matter how we cut it, our Disney trips cut a HUGE hole in our budget, and we're more accepting of the fact that our countdown b/w trips is just going to be longer these days.

Having not been there as many times as many people on the boards here, although I've noticed a decline in the quality of the food and the merchandise, I can honestly say we've still been impressed with our rooms and most of the CM's... all of our recent trips have been sprinkled throughout with the magic that keeps bringing us back.

But -- the bottom line is, there's only so much each family can afford -- and as much as we love the magic, it won't pay the bills, and that stuff has to be taken care of first.

Bummer. ;)

magicofdisney

08-11-2010, 03:49 PM

has anyone notice how worn, dirty and fadded the carpet is at Mickey Philharmagic:sick:? There is no excuse.
I heard they're getting rid of the cattle ropes so they're using the "path of dirt" as a guide to the show...

Checkers

08-11-2010, 05:23 PM

:mickey:Well, we just returned last evening so my sentiments are fresh in my mind.

We have been going to WDW for about 15 yrs. and joined DVC in 2000. This trip was the most disappointing one we have ever had. Although we met some truly great CMs, we also had some that really made us feel like 2nd class citizens and this coming from someone who thinks the "glass is always half full". I approach each CM with a smile on my face and usually it is just to have a question answered. For example, when asking a CM at DTD if it was possible to renew our APs (they expire on 9/24) while we were down there to take advantage of the 3 mo. extension, you would have thought I was asking for his 1st born! He would do it but he would be breaking the rules and we would have to sign a paper, yada, yada, yada. All he needed to say was no, we would have to wait until 8/24 and renew and that would have been the end of it. Needless to say, we declined and said we would renew with MS when we got home. But he made me feel like I was asking something for nothing. I was so embarrassed and disappointed with his attitude.

We also have noticed the decline in just about everything else, especially the cleanliness of the public restrooms.

I don't want "something to nothing", I just want what I pay for -- quality accommodations, good food selection and some of the "magic" they are selling.

We are going back in Oct. for the F&WF and have a trip scheduled for next March with our family but after that I think we will take a break for awhile especially if these 2 upcoming trips mirror what we just experienced.

Yes, I still love it but it saddens me.

Tekneek

08-11-2010, 07:43 PM

It is all well and good for Disney to compare well with similar operations. The problem is how Disney compares to itself. Maybe they just aren't capable of living up to their reputation anymore.

Victor Kelly

08-11-2010, 10:06 PM

It is all well and good for Disney to compare well with similar operations. The problem is how Disney compares to itself. Maybe they just aren't capable of living up to their reputation anymore.

Sadly I agree with you. I remember going once a year sometimes twice a year until I was 20 and my parents split. Last trip was 05 and it was not as great as my many years as a Disney vet had shown Disney to be.

Disney has gone down to the point that Universal puts on a better show. My fiancee and I have APs to HersheyPark in Pa which is less than 2 hours drive away. Hershey is good for what it is, and over the last few years has improved upon itself. Our honeymoon is in Disney in September. i have no intention to being sour upon arrival, but whatever happens will determine the future of our visits, if any.

I will keep my fingers, eyes and toes crossed that things go better than it has for some people in this thread.

Plex

08-11-2010, 10:47 PM

Lowering the price is a last resort. It sends all the wrong messages to the business analysts that essentially don't understand what the business is anyway. They get more credit from those analysts for raising the prices on a regular schedule, even if it is negated by discounts offered later in the year (especially when they do it via dining plan and other packages, which are probably not understood by the influential analysts).

Most analysts are going to be looking at the profit margin and the park attendance when they're evaluating the company. Specifically on Disney, I've heard quite a bit of talk for the past couple of years about how they're sacrificing margins to keep revenues and attendance up. Specifically what is being discounted or what prices are changing really doesn't make much of a difference except for marketing purposes. Raising prices does send a pretty strong signal that they feel that the market will bear higher prices, which is overall a good sign for the company if their belief about the market conditions is accurate.

This whole thing may just be a marketing stunt to get people to perceive a WDW vacation as being more expensive, meanwhile they offer even bigger discounts to make people think they're getting a great deal when in fact the net effect is unchanged.

Somewhere in the bowels of the unfashionable end of the Disney Corporation (ie, the accounting department), there is probably a spreadsheet detailing exactly what the expected revenue from each guest is under a variety of different pricing and discounting scenarios. There's way more to what a WDW vacation costs beyond just the gate price - there's lodging, food, souvenirs, attractions you have to pay for, etc. I'm sure Disney actively manages the price of everything very carefully to make sure that their average revenue per guest stays exactly where they want it to be.

Just as a prime example - Have you EVER payed rack rate on a room? Ever?

How about park tickets? Do you really think the price goes down each consecutive day because they're being nice? Of course not!

Just like a department store - the price isn't really the price, and the discount isn't really a discount.

TikiLounger

08-12-2010, 07:33 AM

Mark it up, to mark it down...

AgentP

08-12-2010, 09:46 AM

I have always been a huge disney fan. My husband and I got married at the WL and we would visit at least twice a year. Now though, we have to space our trips apart. Our last trip was April 2009. Although I would love to go back, it just isn't possible to go every year on a teacher's salary! We are planning a trip for 2013. This breaks my heart because my children, ages 2 and 4, would love it down there right now (and so would I). For the first time ever, I have been thinking about staying off site or renting a vacation home. This is where Disney is going to get burned. If the resorts on property are not held to a higher standard than the surrounding properties, people will start looking off property. However, I still think that Disney is a pretty good value. When I go to Disney I know that I am going to have a great time. Recently, I priced out a ski trip for this winter. For two days for my family the total was $1000! Compared to that, Disney is a bargain.

magicofdisney

08-12-2010, 11:09 AM

Just as a prime example - Have you EVER payed rack rate on a room? Ever?
I hate to admit it, but I've paid rack rate at least twice (in my younger days). Fortunately, for Disney, there are millions of less savvy Disney consumers (than myself) that do it all the time.

BluewaterBrad

08-12-2010, 04:02 PM

edhunter28

08-12-2010, 05:02 PM

it will take more than just money to stop me from going id have tohave a bad time which i havent nor will ever have

MrPeetrie

08-12-2010, 05:18 PM

Truthfully, over the last couple of years, we've tried to do some "lower priced" vacations. We went to Busch Gardens, Virginia, two years ago. I was shocked to see how much money we spent there. Since they only have one "on-property" hotel and it was pricey, we stayed close by at a Courtyard Marriot. That was very affordable. The tickets were surprisingly affordable, as well. And since we could drive, we saved on airfare. I thought, "This is going to be one inexpensive vacation." Wrong!!! Food, beverage, and gift shop prices FAR EXCEEDED WDW!!! I averaged nearly $400 a day between breakfast, lunch, dinner, snacks, and shopping. (Dinner was always away from the park so that's not really fair. We kind of spoiled ourselves, but that's what vacations are for.) :number1:

Cedar Point this year wasn't much better. $289/night for room vs. WDW's $149. Truthfully, for the quality, i still think Disney is a good value. Have you ever purchased apparrel from other parks? definitely not Disney quality. :ack: :ack:

Mickey91

08-12-2010, 10:31 PM

Have you ever purchased apparrel from other parks? definitely not Disney quality. :ack: :ack:
I will have to disagree with you there. We were at Busch Gardens last year to say happy birthday and goodbye to the Big Bad Wolf. Their prices were very comparable to Disney and I also thought the quality was either on par if not a little better as Disney merchandise has been the victim of the worst of the cutbacks. We also got a meal deal as we went in and saved a little there, especially on drink refills. It was a very enjoyable day.

azcavalier

08-13-2010, 08:28 AM

Just as a prime example - Have you EVER payed rack rate on a room? Ever?

Yes, a few times. But only when we get something else for free, such as the free DDP. So, rack rate +free food > discounted room+paying for food.

azcavalier

08-13-2010, 08:30 AM

I will have to disagree with you there. We were at Busch Gardens last year to say happy birthday and goodbye to the Big Bad Wolf. Their prices were very comparable to Disney and I also thought the quality was either on par if not a little better as Disney merchandise has been the victim of the worst of the cutbacks. We also got a meal deal as we went in and saved a little there, especially on drink refills. It was a very enjoyable day.

I haven't been to Busch Gardens (we're talking Williamsburg, here) since I got married back in 1995. However, in my mind, Busch Gardens is a great theme park...excellent rides, great theming, and I always remember it being clean. I don't know about the food though. That's one thing that makes Disney stand out to us. We went to Kings Island last year and ate in one of maybe two restaurants in the parks. It was a buffet. It was nasty.

Mickey'sGirl

08-13-2010, 08:42 AM

I fondly remember the beer garden in the middle of Busch Gardens .... That's good eating, right? ;)

TikiLounger

08-13-2010, 09:24 AM

I hate to admit it, but I've paid rack rate at least twice (in my younger days). Fortunately, for Disney, there are millions of less savvy Disney consumers (than myself) that do it all the time.

I hate to admit it too, but we've done the same in the past. In our defense, though...as much as we love it, we never really intended for Disney to be our "vacation destination of choice" so a few of our trips in the beginning were planned very "spur of the moment". Now that we've accepted the fact that we're Disney addicted, we're planning our trips much more in advance and figuring things out earlier...more time to find specials and deals.

grumpyguy

08-13-2010, 09:44 AM

I've been watching this post and have held off replying until now.I wanted to make sure i didn't say something that was going to make me "insert foot" into mouth....
I think it is all relative.Disney is a business.The people that have worked their way to the top to be in charge at the corporate
level have inherited many responsibilities.
If i can afford to spend my entertainment dollar on a place that makes me happy,I will.If my financial situation changes to a point to where i don't have the entertainment dollar to spend on disney,I won't.
For now i am very thankful I can:thumbsup:
"As long as we don't lose sight of one thing..."
Love ya walt.

GrmGrninGost

08-13-2010, 11:13 AM

I think the point being made is that Disney is for the family. Not just the rich families, but for the American family. The working man as it where. The whole idea for Disneyland was a place to spend time as a family and for everyone to be entertained. I'm sure Walt wanted to make a profit, but that was not the driving force behind his ideas. He wanted people to be happy. He wanted people to enjoy his park. What has always set Disney above the other parks has been the attention to detail and the story behind things. Nothing there is just a ride, it is an adventure. But, also, part of the detail has been the helpfulness and friendliness of the CMs and the cleanliness of not just the parks, but the resorts. This has been in a noticeable decline in recent years. It is my opinion that WDW cannot continue to operate indefinitely if only the rich can afford it. It is also my opinion that people come to WDW because it is different than other parks. The Disney "Magic" if you will. I don't know what the answers are, but raising the prices and lowering the standards are NOT the answers they should be pursuing (IMHO).

Tekneek

08-13-2010, 11:27 AM

I'm sure Walt wanted to make a profit, but that was not the driving force behind his ideas.

Money was not the end result for him. Money is what allowed them to do more things. It was seen as part of the process, for the most part, rather than the goal of all their work. Walt and Roy could've pocketed a whole lot of money. Instead, they reinvested in a business that later allowed others to come along and rake in the millions.

In a way, it is one of the more disgusting things about the business world. It isn't always the ones who take all the risk that make the most reward. Those who work long days, reinvest into the business as much as they can, etc. It is the manager types who come along later, who are never going to mortgage all their personal assets to build the business, yet rake in the millions off of all the hard work and risk that somebody else dealt with. All with a clear conscience, as if they are really sticking their neck out to do it.

Ian

08-13-2010, 03:59 PM

II'm sure Walt wanted to make a profit, but that was not the driving force behind his ideas.This is a popular notion, but as someone who's read just about every word ever printed about Walt's life, I'll tell you that I think the truth is actually somewhere in between.

I mean, in reality Walt was originally motivated to get into animation by a desire to make a profit. He wanted to "strike it rich", basically. Just like so many other young men in the 20's and 30's. He was kicking off the dust of small town America and heading to Hollywood to find fortune and fame.

It was more his approach that emphasized quality over profits. He believed that the way you become successful was to give the customer more than what they expect, while charging them at their expectation level. He felt like, if you did that, you'd build an extremely loyal client base and the money would flow from there (i.e. volume over high margin).

And look he was obviously right, because despite their best efforts this team of suits has yet to burn off all the brand loyalty Walt created over the decades he ran the company.

DizneyRox

08-13-2010, 06:34 PM

And look he was obviously right, because despite their best efforts this team of suits has yet to burn off all the brand loyalty Walt created over the decades he ran the company.But they are trying as hard as their MBA allows them...

Mogie

08-14-2010, 03:02 AM

Here's the thing in broad strokes...

Where else can you find a vacation destination where you can spend a WEEK there for well under $1000 with constant excitement? Further where else can you find a vacation destination where it's PLAY TIME constantly from the moment Mickey wakes you up for a wake up call, till the moment you collapse in bed thankfully and satisfied? Good food, happy Cast Member faces, Mickey Ice Cream ears at 10am, rides and coasters! Holy I cant believe were having this conversation :) Plug it into my veins!
It's a break from life. It's corporate, I know, but they do it right. Dont think about it, let yourself sink into it like a luxurious bed and let them take you for a ride. Forget about work, money, problems and anything else, if you're able, and...well...have fun!

buzznwoodysmom

08-14-2010, 09:31 AM

Where else can you find a vacation destination where you can spend a WEEK there for well under $1000 with constant excitement?

I don't know about your family, but my family of 4 can't get away with a WEEK for "well under $1000). Even pricing out a value resort during value season, with base tickets (no hoppers) and the QS dining plan comes out at well over $2000. Now this is with no discounts, and I could have left he QS dining plan out, but I'd still have to add in the expense for food, getting there (flights or gas). Once upon a time a family of 4 could have gone for around $1500 and had a fantastic time, but I don't see that happening with current increases.

Mickey91

08-14-2010, 10:36 AM

Where else can you find a vacation destination where you can spend a WEEK there for well under $1000 with constant excitement? Further where else can you find a vacation destination where it's PLAY TIME constantly from the moment Mickey wakes you up for a wake up call, till the moment you collapse in bed thankfully and satisfied? Good food, happy Cast Member faces, Mickey Ice Cream ears at 10am, rides and coasters! Holy I cant believe were having this conversation :) Plug it into my veins!
It's a break from life. It's corporate, I know, but they do it right. Dont think about it, let yourself sink into it like a luxurious bed and let them take you for a ride. Forget about work, money, problems and anything else, if you're able, and...well...have fun!
Under $1000? Please share your discount strategies. I am paying as much this year for my moderate with 7 day park hopper for four and FREE dining plan as I did in 2003 for the Poly with ultimate park hopper (everything was included DQ, WP, PI, WDW recreation etc.)for 5. I know it has been 7 years but if you priced what I had in 2003 to the same thing this year it would make your head spin. And, the Poly has cut some of their little perks that made it special as have most in the WDW resort area.

I guess I am more with Teneek on this one. Disney is a good value if you compare it to other destinations. The point is, there used to be NO comparison. And if you compare Disney today with Disney even 5 years ago, it is a completely different place. Their standards have lowered along with their quality and service. So, the question I have posed isn't about how Disney compares to other places. It is about how the recent increase in prices all over the WDW resort area from tickets and rooms to special events, dining and recreation with the insane amount of decrease in quality, cleanliness, service and magic, affect how you do a WDW vacation today in contrast to recent years or if your even willing to do a WDW vacation today. And how will that affect Disney. People have come to expect greatness in WDW, because Disney, once upon a time, delivered greatness. It has always been an expensive trip. But now, you are paying premium prices for mediocre service, rooms, merchandise and food. Many are having to stop their yearly trek because it is no longer doable. Some are stopping their traditional WDW trips because the magic has dropped and price has increased. The current idea to raise prices while slashing quality is not going to help Disney in the long term. Already we are comparing it to other destinations when there should be no comparison. Disney used to be that far above the rest.

For as long as I can remember, the top 10 list for amusement/theme parks attendance has had eight Disney parks on it and the other Disney parks were close behind. I look forward to seeing the new list. Disney won't stay on top for long if it continues down the path it is currently traveling. And they won't be able to blame it on Harry Potter.

CanadianWDWFan

08-14-2010, 10:56 AM

:cop:Moderator Alert:cop:

OK Folks, I am stepping in here and going to remind everyone to please try to keep the discussion to the OP's topic. This is not a board for political discussions

TheVBs

08-14-2010, 11:39 AM

I don't see how you can rate the value of a Disney trip without comparing it to other destinations. It's not that I don't understand the comparison to itself in previous years, I do. But, the bottom line when you're choosing a vacation destination is deciding where the best place to spend your time and money would be.

I'm just not seeing this massive decline in cleanliness, service and magic. Obviously, there are people who are, I'm not negating anyone else's experience. But there are obviously a lot of people like us too, who still find Disney to be an incredible value and a wonderful destination. There are also new people discovering it every day who are likely to be return guests.

I just think it's illogical to say that you can only compare Disney to itself in past years. Only my :twocents: :mickey:

Rick McCord

08-14-2010, 01:15 PM

Some may refer to it as greed, and others may refer to it is capitalism at work. I just can't believe that we all can't agree that something is out of balance. I am not going to make this some kind of political rant, but this is all a reflection of our society.

I am involved in a business that depends on quality customer service. I don't make as much as the next guy working in my field - because I bend over backwards to see to the satisfaction of my customers. But my customer base is growing and I am still making a living. I can employ more people who will help me to continue growing and earning my customers business.

I think many corporations/organizations are too in touch with their "bottom line" and not in touch with their customer. No offense to accountants, but if all decisions are made to increase the profitability of individual items - you lose sight of the bigger picture.

We are in a very "ME" era. The CEO took a 58% pay loss from 2008 to 2009. Now if I took a 58% pay cut I would be in the poor house BUT THIS GUY'S PAY WAS STILL VALUED AT $21.6M. But it is not just him - how about the CFO, COO, CTO, etc. I believe that people should make a living, and when you work hard you deserve to live well. We are now reaping the rewards of what we have sown and it is a tough pill to swallow.

Other threads indicate that the parks are cutting back hours, cutting extravaganzas in the off season, cutting back in the quality of their products. My own experience showed that many EPCOT attractions shut down at 7:00 p.m. in July (isn't this peak season!!!).

But this cuts down on costs, employee hours, power and electricity, maintenance - these are not only savings for the company but its lost wages for employees.:mad:

I don't believe that was what made Disney so attractive in the first place. Lets make it magical, and they will keep coming - let's make it an experience that they will not forget - and more will come. Not just for the elite, or so-called elite - but for everyone.

It is what made Disney and a lot of other American institutions great. Do I think anyone deserves a free ride the answer is "NO". But rather than making big dollars on few - lets make few dollars on many - and send them home wanting more.

Wow - I have gotten carried away. I love Disney - I believe in the magic, but will my children be able to afford to go with their families. If this keeps going - I am afraid not.:rant:

Tekneek

08-14-2010, 04:00 PM

My own experience showed that many EPCOT attractions shut down at 7:00 p.m. in July (isn't this peak season!!!).

I wonder how many people, going to the parks on a regular basis today, even know the hours used to be different at Epcot. This was yet another one of those budgetary things that just never went away.

Daisy'sMom

08-14-2010, 04:17 PM

I went to the grocery store this morning. Last week I brought a gallon of skim milk for 2.96. Today I paid 3.18 for the same milk. My daughter in law reminded me that I will continue to buy the milk, and didn't blink an eye when I paid the cashier. She said I have been sputtering about Disney's price increase ever since it was announced. She asked me why I am not as angry about the price of milk. She actually made sense to me.:mickey:

DizneyRox

08-14-2010, 07:22 PM

Mickey91

08-16-2010, 01:06 AM

Did you get a gallon of milk though? Or was it more like 1/2 gallon in a container designed to look like it holds a gallon?

This is the real beef! Paying more for less. Even if you keep quality out of it. Party events are now double what they were in 2003. You cannot enter (rumor as of now)before 7:00 instead of 4:00 as in the past(loss of 3 hours), and this year there is premium pricing for Oct 29 and 31! You don't get a button, you don't get a free photo and the trick or treat bag is plastered with advertisements for their movies.
Would you not be angry if bought a gallon of milk for more than normal and got home with 3/4 of a gallon? I sure would.

Cinderelley

08-16-2010, 03:51 AM

I can handle the increase in prices. I can't handle the decrease in customer service. I am still upset over the fact that they closed the Adventurer's Club and took the characters from Liberty Tree Tavern. It hasn't reached the point where I refuse to go back, but it does cause me to look at other vacations. We went on an Alaskan Cruise last summer. It was as wonderful as my last WDW trip. I was seriously debating whether to do another cruise for my bday next year or go to WDW. Since MK will be celebrating it's 40th bday too, I chose WDW. Our family trip in 2012 will definitely be a cruise though - and with Royal Caribbean, not Disney.

CaptainSad

08-16-2010, 09:59 AM

It has effected our family. We have been down 25 times since 1983. We have stopped staying on property years ago. We have stayed off property before we bought in on a timeshare which is on Disney property. (Wyndham Bonnet Creek next to Caribbean Beach Resort) Which is ten times better than DVC. Just look at the accommodations. They have there own kitchens so we don't eat much at the parks anymore. I don't pay the now $15 for parking at the parks. We do have a shuttle that go's to each park and of course you can figure the other way to get to them. Before Wyndham we had to pay for lodging, tickets, food and it added up real fast. Lets just say a family as ours (6) would cost $1980 for 2 rooms at a value resort for 10 days. If I went by today's tickets prices and did the 10 day magic your way plan with the added park hopper add another $1998.18. Now add the tickets for a flight down and back, $2500.00 give or take and then food and souvenirs. You are talking about well over $6000.00. How many people can keep doing that? Now the way I do it I drive down straight through. It's about 1400miles. Takes 21 hours and we have 4 that can drive. It takes 4 fill ups of gas each way. About $320, savings of $2180 on plane tickets. We pack sandwiches and water for the trip so no money spent there. I don't have to pay anything out of pocket for lodging for the trip. Saving of $1998.18. We bring stuff from home to eat at our resort. I can't remember the last time we spent money to eat at the parks. Maybe a water or something. Not much I can do about park tickets. They are what they are. Like I said I don't pay for parking. Not after spending about $480 for the price of tickets for the day give or take. The other stuff is up to the wife and kids on what they want to spend for souvenirs..

Don't get me wrong, I am one of WDW biggest fans. But the price is just to high. Find a better way. Save yourselves cash. Don't be held hostage by Disney prices....

PopPhan

08-16-2010, 12:57 PM

This is the real beef! Paying more for less. Even if you keep quality out of it. Party events are now double what they were in 2003. You cannot enter (rumor as of now)before 7:00 instead of 4:00 as in the past(loss of 3 hours), and this year there is premium pricing for Oct 29 and 31! You don't get a button, you don't get a free photo and the trick or treat bag is plastered with advertisements for their movies.
Would you not be angry if bought a gallon of milk for more than normal and got home with 3/4 of a gallon? I sure would.

You don't expect to get into a park 3 hours before park opening, so why should you expect to get into the park 3 hours before the party starts? It had been allowed as a courtesy, to keep crowds down at the opening of the party. They have figured out that they are losing 'gate' letting people in early, so now it's gone.

As for your gallon of milk analogy, you were paying for a half gallon and getting almost a full gallon....Now you are paying for a half gallon and getting a half gallon. Maybe slightly less due to the loss of the photo and pin....

Dsnygirl

08-16-2010, 03:25 PM

After reading most of the posts here, I think one thing that definitely comes into play is what each person expects from their trip/experience, and what they are willing to reasonably pay (by their own factors) for it.

Many people have mentioned the cost of rooms, the cost/value of off-site rooms, specifically that have kitchens, etc... many have mentioned what's being taken away, like characters at certain meals or the AC... all very valid, and very missed, even by my own family.

But in some respects, what you are looking for vs. what you are getting for your cost comes into play here.

I don't want to cook on my vacation, so having a room with the ability to do that doesn't matter to me. But -- having stayed deluxe now, some of the amenities that go along with that DO matter. Other folks could care less if they're ever in their room or spend time at their resort, so they care even less about their room-- but they might always do character meals, so they feel jipped on that front by what has changed.

I don't believe we are getting a tremendous amount less for our money, but that's just me -- and I haven't been going as long as a lot of folks on here. Certainly, some things have been dropped or changed from how they were put out there originally, so it makes it seem like you're paying more for less. (i.e. the DDP and what it used to include -- which most people actually said was too much food. The included tip would still be nice, but...) But I can say that as a whole, the magic hasn't changed since our first trip -- and if it had that significantly, we wouldn't be returning, as that is what we go for. We do travel elsewhere, and all in all, spend a comparable amount for food and accomodations at other places -- and have had far dirtier rooms, far less care by the staff and worse food.... and far less magic.

I do believe Disney has to cut back in small areas to help their bottom line, and this is always going to bother someone -- it just depends on what you're looking for, and what they've changed.

I'm not thrilled with the price increases -- and I hear what people are saying about the exponential amount of that increase over the past 5 or more years. But gas, groceries, utility bills and everything else has gone up, right along with it, and we keep paying -- because we have to. The most difficult part of accepting a price increase, esp. if things that are important to you are missing, is if it is by CHOICE you are making that purchase. It's a lot harder to spend more when it's not as easy to justify needing to, trust me, I know. :blush:

So... for me, I wish Disney cost less, just like any other vacation, but I still think that for our family of four, for what we get out of our vacation, it is still a good value. Hopefully, that will continue... I'll let you know next year!! :)

Tekneek

08-16-2010, 03:54 PM

Given the amount of people who only find value in things like the Hall of Presidents as nap locations, it's not hard to understand that some people are far less discerning than others about the actual quality of "the show" that Disney puts on at WDW. Perhaps Disney is actually aware that a significant percentage of guests will eat up whatever is given to them and so don't worry too much about the more discerning guest who notices the decline from the past.

Granny Jill A

08-16-2010, 03:54 PM

My next trip WDW is #20, and I'm thinking that this will be it for me. The Disney organization is having the same problems as any other business, and they are squeezing their employees to get more done with less. It's bound to have an effect on attitude and service. My employer is asking us to do more and more, with no raises. It's hard to maintain an attitude of gratitude.

Belster

08-16-2010, 04:12 PM

I'll never stop going! I would sell my left lung for the magic!!!

I guess that we are the minority but it is the one place that we go and we all love it!! We truly speng the best quality family time at the most magical place on earth.

As far as teh parking...we do not rent a car when we go to WDW....we let them do all of the driving.

I do love hearing all of teh different opinions...it is opening my eyes to some new thoughts.

Dsnygirl

08-16-2010, 04:58 PM

I do not believe that it is only the "discerning" who are finding fault with Disney and it's value... trust me, just ask my DH my track record for picking apart vacations and what they're worth. :blush: And I do believe for that people who have been going regularly for 10 or 20 years, there is probably a decline in service for the cost. We've become a society of "the customer is always right" and people are much more demanding for their dollar b/c of it... we expect a lot for what we spend. And that isn't always a bad thing -- people have a right to get good value, and expectations make companies work harder.

But just because some of us are enchanted by nothing more than walking down Main St and can overlook a few grouchy CM's and find pleasure in the far greater number of helpful and "magic-filled" ones doesn't mean our experience is less than those that want "more" - or expect every nuance to be perfect.

Some people may find the HoP to be worthy of a nap, others may find AK a bore, others may have no interest in the shows. Does that mean they are any less aware of when they are having a good time on their vacation?? If you go down with a happy attitude, treat people well, enjoy who you're travelling with and come home refreshed and you bring back some of the magic with you, have you gotten less or more for your dollar than the person who went down expecting it all and got less than that, and is thus unhappy?

The OP is asking how far Disney can go and still get you to return... I guess for most of us, as long as the magic is there, we will find a way to go, and if we're lucky enough to know how to find the deals, we'll happily pay less. But we'll still go, regardless, if Disney is still magic for us. What creates that magic is up to each individual person to determine.

Mousefever

08-17-2010, 07:37 AM

What Blythe says...:thumbsup:

And I'm spent.

Amy

TheVBs

08-17-2010, 08:39 AM

:ditto: I think PopPhan and Dsnygirl have summed it up perfectly. :mickey:

VWL Mom

08-17-2010, 09:26 AM

The OP is asking how far Disney can go and still get you to return... I guess for most of us, as long as the magic is there, we will find a way to go, and if we're lucky enough to know how to find the deals, we'll happily pay less. But we'll still go, regardless, if Disney is still magic for us. What creates that magic is up to each individual person to determine.

Well said :thumbsup:

mermaidmarian

08-17-2010, 01:45 PM

Mickey91

08-17-2010, 04:47 PM

You don't expect to get into a park 3 hours before park opening, so why should you expect to get into the park 3 hours before the party starts? It had been allowed as a courtesy, to keep crowds down at the opening of the party. They have figured out that they are losing 'gate' letting people in early, so now it's gone.

As for your gallon of milk analogy, you were paying for a half gallon and getting almost a full gallon....Now you are paying for a half gallon and getting a half gallon. Maybe slightly less due to the loss of the photo and pin....
I MIGHT could see your point if the price to go to a party was still $32.00 including tax. But now it is a whopping $60 plus tax with premium prices for the 29th and 31st. That's $11.80+ per hour per person to be in a park where not all the rides are open, not all the food places are open and the party offerings have diminished over the last few years. At least an early entry helped justify the cost.

But the parties aren't the only place where cost has increased and quality decreased. I will end my rant by saying this, Disney has many, many visitors that come as often as possible, my family included. But, the path they are heading on WILL catch up to them. A company can only survive so long diminishing the product and raising the prices. I would think an entertainment company would see a drastic decline sooner than most other companies. Eventually, those of us who live a long drive or plane ride away, are going to decide there isn't enough magic or the magic is just too expensive in comparison to other entertainment or vacation choices to justify traveling so far and paying so much when there are X things we can do closer to home for less $$ or a longer more enjoyable stay for the same $$. Obviously we haven't hit our threshold yet because we leave in two days. I cannot wait! But, I also know not to expect the same magic and value that I once expected. And that makes me a little sad.