DDP Overcrowding/ADR Solutions?

[Phantod]

Okay, we've all been reading about the problems getting ADRs unless you call the very first day you can, whether that be 90 or 180 days out.

So what happens when you decide at the last minute, say 45 days out, and every TS restaurant is booked and you call and you call and you still can't find ANY dinners, and maybe some or no lunches.

On another thread it was discussed that if you try to get a rezzie the day of, you are going to be flat out of luck. So here you are, you've paid for some number of TS meals, and the only thing you can get is your local resort (maybe).:ack:

I don't know about you, but this is getting to be a real pain. If it was me, and I paid that money for the DDP and couldn't get ANY TSs, I'd be unhappy and complaining big time.

Okay, so that's the background. But what's the solution? My DW and I have been wracking our brains trying to figure out a resolution. I'm guessing this DDP program came about because the TS restaurants weren't filling up. Now, you flat out can't get into any of them on any kind of short notice, so the pendalum has swung the other way. How do we find that happy medium where you can still find a dinner at at TS restaurant a day or 2 in advance?

My idea is to limit the number of DDPs given out for any period of time. Once the limit has been reached, you can go Quick Service with discounted rooms or something else, but you can't get the DDP. There might be some complaints, but I think people are going to start rethinking the whole DDP thing if they can't get any TSs. When we did if for the first time back in 2006, it wasn't too big of a challenge. Now it's a nightmare...especially if you ever want to change things after the 90 days. For example, we ended up adding 2 days to our trip several weeks after the 90 days. Do you think we could get any TS for dinner? Not on your life. If we ever have to do a short notice trip (less than 180 days?), we'll probably forgo the DDP or get the Quick Service....we did that before and we can do it again.

But does anyone else have any ideas toward addressing the issue?

[FriendsofMickey]

I think a partial solution would be to start requiring a credit card hold for all dining ressies and charging a small fee per diner if they are a no show.

I think a large part of the problem is that there a so many people out there that are making ressies to 'save' a spot for themselves (just in case). This would eliminate a lot of this and free up dining ressies for those who want them.

[Seasonscraps]

They could open more restaurants that take the dining plan. I believe that's part of the re-vamp PI plan.

FWIW, ESPN and Beaches & Cream take the DDP but not ADRs so you can get into one of those places even during free dining periods.
And maybe Big RIver Grill but I am not sure.

[MistressGracey]

It wouldn't hurt if the person taking your ressies asked at the end of the call, "Are there any dining reservations you need to cancel?" About 10 days after I made our DDP ressies, I switched our plans around just a bit and had to change two reservation times. I did this over the phone, but (as always) logged into the internet later to verify that they had gotten them right. They did, but they also left on the original 2 reservation times that I no longer needed. Keep in mind, I was pretty specific on the phone that I was *changing* reservations. I ended up calling back and cancelling the two I didn't need, thus freeing them up for someone else. I couldn't help but wonder though, how many reservations are being tied up this way.

As a side note, I called the very first day allowed to make our ressies and didn't have too much trouble with any except Ohana. All they had was a 9:30PM, so I took it with the idea that I could try to get it bumped up closer to the trip. Well, we are 30 or so days out now from leaving, and STILL nothing earlier at Ohana. I guess we're eating at 9:30 at Ohana!:mickey:

[MistressGracey]

[QUOTE=FriendsofMickey;1939450]I think a partial solution would be to start requiring a credit card hold for all dining ressies and charging a small fee per diner if they are a no show.

I think this is an EXCELLENT idea! Not only would it keep people from making reservations they are not really sure they even want, but it would give them some motivation to cancel them when/if they change their mind!:thumbsup:

[Seasonscraps]

That seems unfair to people that can't or don't use credit cards. I can understand having credit card holds for the extremely popular places to prevent double booking, but a place like Boatrights?

[Disney Doll]

I think the main problem is free dining. Tons of people take advantage of that offer making dining in September a real hassle. We had no problems last October when we decided the day of that we wanted dinner at Boma. In fact making the ADRs for October was a breeze compared to the hassle we've had for this September. We're not even using the free dining plan so it's extra irritating to me.

I don't really have a solution though. Free dining does what it's meant to do, entice visitors right about the time the back to school lull starts. Plus, since Disney gets rack room rates for every person using free dining it's pretty good for business. People feel like they are getting a super bargain, but Disney isn't loosing much.

Personally, I just plan to avoid September in the future.

[TheRustyScupper]

1) There are only two solutions
. . . WDW stops the DDP
. . . Guests stop being greedy
2) Neither are probable.

3) WDW is making too much money from DDP
. . . most people lose money when buying DDP
. . . fixed costs (burden) are over-absorbed
. . . net profits are way, way up in each eatery
4) Guests want to pig-out
. . . they don't care about quality of food *
. . . they don't care about the uniqueness of the food *
. . . they don't care about atmosphere *
. . . they want to just shove down the food

5) So, count on future ADR problems.
6) To quote that famous comic strip philosopher, Pogo
. . . we have met the enemy, and it is us

* I accept flames for the statement, but WDW has changed menus and food items, and the buying public doesn't care. They think they got a bargain, so they just chow-down. Meanwhile, the eateries dumb-down the menu items, reduce the atmosphere, and generally lower the dining experience. And, now, not only is WDW increasing the cost of DDP, they are increasing it for busy seasons. As WDW, politicians and PT Barnum have known for some time, never overestimate the intelligence of the public.

[It'sWDW4me]

I think a partial solution would be to start requiring a credit card hold for all dining ressies and charging a small fee per diner if they are a no show.

I think a large part of the problem is that there a so many people out there that are making ressies to 'save' a spot for themselves (just in case). This would eliminate a lot of this and free up dining ressies for those who want them.

This is the exact solution that I was thinking too - your card gets charged for a no-show. Thinking on this deeper, though, I can think of some potential issues:

1. Guest calls to cancel extra ressies and either the CM doesn't complete the cancel or there's a glitch and the ressie somehow doesn't get canceled. I can only imagine how many irate calls Disney would get from people insisting that they did cancel that ressie but they were charged the "no-show" fee. Possible solution - ressie confirm/cancellation emails? And it goes on and on with "I didn't get the email...."

2. Guest waits until last minute to cancel extra ressies based on where they feel like going that day. The no available ressie problem remains until the very last minute. Possible solution - tier the "no-show" fee. Ressies canceled within 24 hrs are charged premium fee which is reduced the farther out cancellation occurs (days, weeks). And I still see problems within this possible solution.

What if Disney charged a fee to make a ressie and that fee was then refunded to your cc or credited to your TS bill when you did show? Credit/refunds could also be given if a ressie was canceled within a reasonable timeframe - say, a week before the ADR time? Would a $10, $20 fee per ressie whittle down the double and triple ressies? Probably. It would probably also cut down on ADR's made at-all since some people wouldn't be willing/able to afford to pay for DDP and the ressie fee in advance.

[Seasonscraps]

* I accept flames for the statement, but WDW has changed menus and food items, and the buying public doesn't care. They think they got a bargain, so they just chow-down. Meanwhile, the eateries dumb-down the menu items, reduce the atmosphere, and generally lower the dining experience. And, now, not only is WDW increasing the cost of DDP, they are increasing it for busy seasons. As WDW, politicians and PT Barnum have known for some time, never overestimate the intelligence of the public.


We don't even consider the dining plan because of this reason.

We may eat in one or two disney restaurants but for the most part seek out places that don't take DDP on property like Shula's or House of Blues. Or we just go off property to eat. It probably takes less time to do that then it does to take a bus to another restaurant on property and get seated.

[green ranger]

I'm a little confused because whether you are on the DDP or not, you need to make ADR, right? So why is the DDP being pointed at for the problems of not being able to get into restaurants? When we were not on the DDP in 2006, we still had problems with getting into places. Doesn't it just have to do with the way they accept reservations so far in advance?

[Seasonscraps]

I'm a little confused because whether you are on the DDP or not, you need to make ADR, right? So why is the DDP being pointed at for the problems of not being able to get into restaurants? When we were not on the DDP in 2006, we still had problems with getting into places. Doesn't it just have to do with the way they accept reservations so far in advance?


The DDP has drastically increased the volume of people that eat in TS restaurants. Now that so many of the guests are paying for their meals in advance they are of course going to make sure they get their money's worth.

I read tons of posts where people said they didn't eat in TS restaurants before getting the plan since it made it affordable especially back when the plan was less expensive and the tips & appys were included. Or they would only have one or two TS a trip but now go every day because of the plan.

[goofysbabe]

How do you check your dining rezzies on line? I went to the wdw website, but I couldn't find anything there

[redleg96]

1) . . .
* I accept flames for the statement, but WDW has changed menus and food items, and the buying public doesn't care. They think they got a bargain, so they just chow-down. Meanwhile, the eateries dumb-down the menu items, reduce the atmosphere, and generally lower the dining experience. And, now, not only is WDW increasing the cost of DDP, they are increasing it for busy seasons. As WDW, politicians and PT Barnum have known for some time, never overestimate the intelligence of the public.

Couldn't agree with RustyScupper more. Last summer we sat in Boatwright's for dinner, and a family next to us was forcing the kids to eat everything on their plate. Toward the end of the meal, one of the young boys in the party (aged 7 or so) got up, braced himself against a wooden beam and threw up several times. His parents stayed at the table and continued to keep filling themselves instead of taking the child to the bathroom after the first time he threw up. The boy sat down and started eating again. These people left the staff at Boatwrights to pick up the vomit, and it was right next to the hostess poidium. The parents acted like nothing had happened. I have never witnessed anything like it before. I guess they wanted the most value out of their dining plan at the expense of their child and all the dinners that witnessed the event. And because they were on the dining plan they didn't leave a tip. (We shared the same waiter.) :sick:

[MNNHFLTX]

1) There are only two solutions
. . . WDW stops the DDP
. . . Guests stop being greedy
2) Neither are probable.

3) WDW is making too much money from DDP
. . . most people lose money when buying DDP
. . . fixed costs (burden) are over-absorbed
. . . net profits are way, way up in each eatery
4) Guests want to pig-out
. . . they don't care about quality of food *
. . . they don't care about the uniqueness of the food *
. . . they don't care about atmosphere *
. . . they want to just shove down the food I'm not flaming you, Rusty, but I don't totally understand the logic. How are guests being greedy? They were offered an incentive for booking a package (especially if it's free dining). Room-only discounts are similar incentives. This is all because Disney wants to fill up their inventory of rooms. And you also state, on the other hand, that Disney is making loads of money on the DDP, so isn't it Disney that's being greedy? As far people getting their money's worth with the DDP, I think it's a toss-up since they changed the program (eliminating the appetizer and not including the gratuity). I, for one, am not a dessert eater, so am far less likely to come out ahead on the deal. I do concede that the quality of the food may suffer due to Disney management wanting to maximize their profits, but I ask again--how does this actually make the guest greedy? I use coupons at the grocery store. Does that make me greedy because I want to try and get a good deal?

Eventually I do think guests will get wise to the actual benefit of the dining plan, especially with the difficulty in getting an ADR. Then I guess Disney will have to use another tactic. :shrug:


Couldn't agree with RustyScupper more. Last summer we sat in Boatwright's for dinner, and a family next to us was forcing the kids to eat everything on their plate. Toward the end of the meal, one of the young boys in the party (aged 7 or so) got up, braced himself against a wooden beam and threw up several times. His parents stayed at the table and continued to keep filling themselves instead of taking the child to the bathroom after the first time he threw up. The boy sat down and started eating again. These people left the staff at Boatwrights to pick up the vomit, and it was right next to the hostess poidium. The parents acted like nothing had happened. I have never witnessed anything like it before. I guess they wanted the most value out of their dining plan at the expense of their child and all the dinners that witnessed the event. And because they were on the dining plan they didn't leave a tip. (We shared the same waiter.) :sick:Unless you heard for a fact that they forced the boy to eat due to the dining plan, I would have my doubts. I would think most parents would have more of a problem with a kid not finishing their meal if they were paying the regular price for it. Plus, I don't think there was even free dining offered until the very end of summer and beginning of fall, was there? Anyway, my guess (and it's just a guess, of course) is that this was probably typical behavior for this family, even at home. But I doubt it represents the average person utilizing the dining plan at Disney World.

[liz12303]

I think...
They limited the number of TS reservations to the number you are allowed on the plan. So if you are staying 6 nights you cannot make more than 6 TS ADRs. If you need to change then you need to cancel one first.

Also, they should require a credit card for people who are not using the Dining Plan.

I think anyone can just sign on and get an ADR even if they are not staying in Disney, so maybe they should require some sort of reservation number if you want to make an ADR.

[green ranger]

I think...
They limited the number of TS reservations to the number you are allowed on the plan. So if you are staying 6 nights you cannot make more than 6 TS ADRs. If you need to change then you need to cancel one first.

Also, they should require a credit card for people who are not using the Dining Plan.

I think anyone can just sign on and get an ADR even if they are not staying in Disney, so maybe they should require some sort of reservation number if you want to make an ADR.

The problem with limiting the number of TS reservations to the number you are allowed on the plan is that some people do more than one TS a day and may pay out of pocket for some. Believe it or not, there are some days that we do a TS breakfast and a late TS dinner putting us over the limit of our TS per night. Disney makes us hungry!

[luvDaMouse]

This may not work but...What about eliminating ADR’s all-together?? When we went back in 2004 (my first time since my honeymoon in 1986) I did not have all the information about dining, park passes, fast passes etc that I do now. When we checked in the CM at the front desk asked us if we wanted to make any dining/tour reservations at that time. We made them then. Unless you are a huge party of 10 or more couldn’t you just make your reservations when you are checking in??:confused:

[Seasonscraps]

I think...
They limited the number of TS reservations to the number you are allowed on the plan. So if you are staying 6 nights you cannot make more than 6 TS ADRs. If you need to change then you need to cancel one first.


This won't work since not everyone that eats at Disney restaurants are on the dining plan and some people have more then on table service meal a day.




Also, they should require a credit card for people who are not using the Dining Plan.

I think anyone can just sign on and get an ADR even if they are not staying in Disney, so maybe they should require some sort of reservation number if you want to make an ADR.

What kind of reservation number? Are you saying that only disney resort guests should be able to make ADRs?

[MNNHFLTX]

Why yes, thank you...I do know it for a fact. Thank you for asking. The parents continually verbally reprimanded the child for not eating faster and finishing everything. I can also confirm that they were on the DDP. You can safely put your doubts aside. I never made any claim that they received free dining as you imply. This goes back to one of the posts regarding greedy eaters. You reinforced my claim I have no doubt that this was probably average behavior at their home as well. The parents were also unfotunately victims of the global obesity epidemic and due to forced eating, no matter what the reason, have their children on this path as well. Regardless if they paid out of pocket or on DDP, it is not appropriate to continue to fill your face as your child vomits between tables.I meant no offense and I apologize if it came across that way. I made the comment about free dining only because I have a hard imagining that most people buy into the dining plan at the regular prices--I know I wouldn't. And I agree that their behavior was atrocious. I look at it as not so much greedy but gluttonous.

I can imagine it was a very distasteful situation (to say the least) to be in the middle of.

[nicster]

How do you check your dining rezzies on line? I went to the wdw website, but I couldn't find anything there
On the WDW web site, click on the far right where it says My Disney Vacation; then at the bottom of the list is Dining Reservations. You will need your confirmation # & the phone # you used for the rezzie.

[ibelieveindisneymagic]

Hmmm, this is a bit of a hard one.

I wouldn't want to get rid of ADR's, as I would hate to get to Disney and not be able to get anything 'cause the people arriving before me have taken them all.

I also don't get people complaining that they have the DDP, but can't get any TS places. You have to make ADR's (90 days or 180days) well before you have to make the final payment for your package, so if you can't get the TS places you want, don't get the DDP (even "free" it costs you).

I know Disney doesn't really care, since the restaurants are all full, but it would be great if 90% of the ADR's could be booked 180-days out, but the last 10% were saved for release 7-days before, kinda a "last chance" booking chance?

[SBETigg]

I think it's a problem blown out of proportion. Granted, at free dining time it can be more of a problem and free dining periods have been extended. But it is seriously rare that you can't get anything if you call in advance, even just a day or a few days out but especially 45 days out. There are openings, maybe not for a handful of the super popular places and maybe not for all the locations and times that you want. But if you're calling at 90 days (or now back to 180) even without plus 10, the chances are excellent that you'll get most of what you want.

I've never had a problem. Never. Seriously. And I'm not just lucky. Most of the people I know (and I know a lot of Disney fans) have better luck than not calling in advance and getting most, if not all, of what they want. Not to say that there are people who have called in a reasonable time frame and totally struck out. It happens, but it's not the norm. The system works. And if you find that it's too big a risk and you can't get what you want, you can opt against the dining plan or cancel it in a reasonable time frame (two weeks prior to check in, I think). So really, I don't see that it's a huge problem that needs working out.

[nicster]

I am beginning to think that another option for DDP, besides the Quick service & Deluxe should be offered. I know that with DDP we are doing many more TS that we would normally do, sooooo why not have an option that gives you-say- half the # of TS & the rest CS... something like that. The trip we will be taking at the end of Sept is 11 nights, we really only wanted 6 TS but have rezzies for most of the other nights (and will be there for them), but we would be just as happy with CS if doing that didn't 'devalue' the free DDP. :blush: just my two cents.

[TheVBs]

I have to be honest, I've never had a problem booking ADRs even during free dining. I think there was one time when I couldn't get a reservation on the day I wanted, so I just changed our schedule a bit and made it work. And, I never call right at the opening of our ADR window, I've never been organized enough so I've had this success calling as much as a week or two into it.

We have even done walk up TS dining, maybe once per trip. Granted, we don't try for Le Cellier walk up, we go for something less popular, but there always seems to be a walk up option.

If I paid for the DDP and couldn't get any ADRs I would cancel the DDP portion of our package. If I got the free DDP and couldn't get any ADRs I would keep trying every few days, try at check in, try walk ups and as a last ditch resort use our TS options for CS options (which we've done before). I would NOT give a credit card for every ADR. I'm totally fine with doing this for special meals as they have it set up now, but not for every reservation.

There will be a trip when I'm not able to get what we want as far as dining goes. It won't ruin our trip. We're not likely to ever puchase the DDP because we usually don't eat desert at every meal, the girls sometime share meals, sometimes we just want a salad, etc., so it doesn't hold it's value for us.

The current set up works fine for us! :mickey:

[Marilyn Michetti]

I'm soooooo glad that we don't deal with the DDP. First off, we don't qualify because we stay at SOG, but aside from that, it seems like so much work. We make two or three ADR's, (two of them are in resorts this year,) and just eat where we are when we get hungry. It works for us. We eat out in Phoenix once or twice a month, so it just doesn't matter much at WDW. :mickey:

[JPL]

If you ask me the solution is simple go back to the way things use to be done. There was a time when only 80% of a restaurant was available for ADRs and the remaining 20% was available for walkups. Add to that a mandatory credit card hold for all ADRs and I think the problem would be solved. If you decide not to show up for your ADR you get charged $10-$20 per person depending on the restaurant whether you are on the DDP or not. This would certainly discourage double bookings and encourage cancellations. I also believe leaving the ADRs at 90 days will help the situation. I also think Disney should limit the amount of Dining Plans sold for any given day by this I mean calculate restaurant capacity and sell only about 70-75% of capacity.

[swampfox28]

Well, after all the panic and complications with ADR's, I fully expected to have some trouble today when I called to make our ADR's.

Further complicating things was the fact that I was so worried I wouldn't wake up in time (complete spaz!), that when I DID wake up I was so groggy it took me longer to finalize all our plans so I COULD call.

Instead of calling at 6:00 CST, I called at 6:30. I thought for SURE I'd have problems, but figured I'd do better with a live person than with the online reservations system, so I went ahead and called.

Lo and behold, I got a person IMMEDIATELY (after the automated menus of course). Marissa was VERY nice and helpful - AND, the biggest "change" I had to make was a 6:05 spot instead of 6:00 pm for one of our ressies!!!

Yes, we tried to pick some offbeat times (one dinner is at 4:45), but mostly we have pretty regular times.

We got ressies at CRT (dinner, though, not breakfast), the Princess breakfast, LeCellier, Whispering Canyon, Yak and Yeti, 1900 Park Fare, etc. - EVERYTHING we wanted.

So, to those who are freaking out, maybe you WON'T have problems... just BREATHE and wait and see!

-Sarah

[allentownguy]

1) There are only two solutions
. . . WDW stops the DDP
. . . Guests stop being greedy
2) Neither are probable.

3) WDW is making too much money from DDP
. . . most people lose money when buying DDP
. . . fixed costs (burden) are over-absorbed
. . . net profits are way, way up in each eatery
4) Guests want to pig-out
. . . they don't care about quality of food *
. . . they don't care about the uniqueness of the food *
. . . they don't care about atmosphere *
. . . they want to just shove down the food

5) So, count on future ADR problems.
6) To quote that famous comic strip philosopher, Pogo
. . . we have met the enemy, and it is us

* I accept flames for the statement, but WDW has changed menus and food items, and the buying public doesn't care. They think they got a bargain, so they just chow-down. Meanwhile, the eateries dumb-down the menu items, reduce the atmosphere, and generally lower the dining experience. And, now, not only is WDW increasing the cost of DDP, they are increasing it for busy seasons. As WDW, politicians and PT Barnum have known for some time, never overestimate the intelligence of the public.

no flame from me! that could not have been stated better!:thedolls:

[miprender]

OK, I must be in the minority because I love the DP.:cloud9: And I am one of those people that call at the exact moment I can. :woohoo: I can now do it at 180 days.

I feel people's fustration that try at the last minute to make ADRs and cant get what they want and I would have no problem using my CC to hold my reservations. I know alot of people that do double book. But I don't think limiting the amount of people on the DP would help. People still need to eat and unless they cancel all ADRs people are still going to book.

[VWL Mom]

We do not use the DDP so I would have no problem giving a cc# to secure a reservation. For those on the DDP they could put a hold on the number of credits needed for the reservation. When all your credits are gone, you need a cc# to book. I think this would help alleviate the double bookings and free up some space.

[nicster]

We do not use the DDP so I would have no problem giving a cc# to secure a reservation. For those on the DDP they could put a hold on the number of credits needed for the reservation. When all your credits are gone, you need a cc# to book. I think this would help alleviate the double bookings and free up some space.
Well thought out, I like it:thumbsup:

[Phantod]

IDEA:

I think a partial solution would be to start requiring a credit card hold for all dining ressies and charging a small fee per diner if they are a no show.

WOULD IT HELP?:
I don’t think so. I don’t really believe that the canceling of reservations is that big of an issue. It may be an issue when trying to get a rezzie, but try to get into one of the popular restaurants the day of. If cancellations were a big issue, people would be able to get in, but that doesn’t seem to be the case.

WILL IT HAPPEN?
Highly unlikely. This would be a nightmare for Disney to manage. As expressed elsewhere, errors in processing the cancellations would be an additional burden that I’m sure they are not interested in taking on.

IDEA:

They could open more restaurants that take the dining plan. I believe that's part of the re-vamp PI plan.

WOULD IT HELP?:
Yes, it certainly would, but only if the restaurants warranted high enough quality to entice people away from their current favorites. Leaving a park to go to DTD would involve a fair amount of time. I for one don’t know that this would be something I’d be interested.

WILL IT HAPPEN?
Apparently that is the plan. I’m curious though how all of the other restaurants at DTD feel about this, in particular those not on the DDP. Will this just take away some of their business, or do they depend more on the locals?

IDEA:

It wouldn't hurt if the person taking your ressies asked at the end of the call, "Are there any dining reservations you need to cancel?" :

WOULD IT HELP?:
I think it would help for people making ADRs in advance. I don’t know that it would really help the day of overcrowding though.

WILL IT HAPPEN?
It could. I think it should happen. Anything to free up ADRs in advance is a good thing.

IDEA:

I think...
They limited the number of TS reservations to the number you are allowed on the plan. So if you are staying 6 nights you cannot make more than 6 TS ADRs. If you need to change then you need to cancel one first.

Also, they should require a credit card for people who are not using the Dining Plan.

I think anyone can just sign on and get an ADR even if they are not staying in Disney, so maybe they should require some sort of reservation number if you want to make an ADR.

WOULD IT HELP?:
Again, I believe this would help open up more rezzies for people prior to their arrival. I’m not sure that it would help the actual overcrowding on any particular day.

WILL IT HAPPEN?
I doubt it. I kind of like this idea, but I think it needs to be more sophisticated. The system would need to keep track of the number of people in a reservation and map that to the TS reservations. For example if there are 6 people in the reservation, then you could put 4 in one TS at one restaurant and 2 at another. You could still do multiple reservations in a day, but they’d need to be separated by at least 2 hours (or something). If you were including some friends from another reservation number, then that would have to be included as well to exceed the number of people in you party, so that their TS would be accounted for. I think there would still be issues if you are including some local Orlando area friends, though.

IDEA:

This may not work but...What about eliminating ADR’s all-together??

WOULD IT HELP?:
Only in making ADRs. It would be a nightmare trying to figure out where you would be eating each day.

WILL IT HAPPEN?
I can’t even imagine this.

IDEA:

I know Disney doesn't really care, since the restaurants are all full, but it would be great if 90% of the ADR's could be booked 180-days out, but the last 10% were saved for release 7-days before, kinda a "last chance" booking chance?

WOULD IT HELP?:
I think it would just make it a panic on the 7th day before. And it doesn’t really resolve any overcrowding. Probably just be more frustrating to people who book the DDP in advance.

WILL IT HAPPEN?
Unlikely. While we perceive ADRs being a little frustrating, when we can’t get exactly what we want, I suspect Disney’s perception is that it’s all great, and all of their restaurants are getting filled to capacity.

COMMENT:

I think it's a problem blown out of proportion. Granted, at free dining time it can be more of a problem and free dining periods have been extended. But it is seriously rare that you can't get anything if you call in advance, even just a day or a few days out but especially 45 days out. There are openings, maybe not for a handful of the super popular places and maybe not for all the locations and times that you want. But if you're calling at 90 days (or now back to 180) even without plus 10, the chances are excellent that you'll get most of what you want.

I've never had a problem. Never. Seriously. And I'm not just lucky. Most of the people I know (and I know a lot of Disney fans) have better luck than not calling in advance and getting most, if not all, of what they want. Not to say that there are people who have called in a reasonable time frame and totally struck out. It happens, but it's not the norm. The system works...So really, I don't see that it's a huge problem that needs working out.

RESPONSE:
Well, that’s interesting. We just added a couple of days to our trip, now beginning 9/20. So we have two more TSs. I tried (via online) to make a reservation on 9/28, a Monday. Shouldn’t be the hardest day of the week. For two adults, I requested 5:00 PM at Epcot (we don’t like to eat late). Here are my choices: Nine Dragons at 4:45. That’s it. Out of all of the TS restaurants at Epcot, that’s the sole choice for an early dinner. MK was even worse. Only availability is Plaza Restaurant at 3:25. And there is no way we’re going to wander around on that date trying each and every TS restaurant. At 7 PM at MK, there is nothing. At 7 PM at Epcot, there is Nine Dragons. At 8:55, Liberty Tavern at MK, and at 8:50 – 9:10 at Epcot there is Nine Dragons, Tokyo Dining, and the 2 French restaurants. Pretty pitiful pickings for a date 42 days out. And I can only ask, what’s wrong with Nine Dragons that it is available every time we requested? We’ve been there twice before, and the food was okay, nothing to write home about, but we were very disappointed in the service, so maybe I already know the answer.

So I don’t see how you can say there isn’t a problem? We had no problems when we booked at 90 days out either, but there sure is a problem, unless you are willing to “settle” when you try at 42 days.

IDEA:

I am beginning to think that another option for DDP, besides the Quick service & Deluxe should be offered. I know that with DDP we are doing many more TS that we would normally do, sooooo why not have an option that gives you-say- half the # of TS & the rest CS.

WOULD IT HELP?:
I would think so, if the cost difference was enough to make it worthwhile.

WILL IT HAPPEN?
Doubt it. Giving people too many options is just too confusing. The regular DDP is about $40 per person per day, while the Quick Service is about $30 a day. Splitting the difference would be $35 per person per day. So if a family of 2 stayed for 10 days, that would be a difference of $100. So, then, you would be losing 5 table services to save $100. So for a small group, problem not very cost effective. It might work though, for larger groups.

IDEA:

If you ask me the solution is simple go back to the way things use to be done. There was a time when only 80% of a restaurant was available for ADRs and the remaining 20% was available for walkups. Add to that a mandatory credit card hold for all ADRs and I think the problem would be solved. If you decide not to show up for your ADR you get charged $10-$20 per person depending on the restaurant whether you are on the DDP or not. This would certainly discourage double bookings and encourage cancellations. I also believe leaving the ADRs at 90 days will help the situation. I also think Disney should limit the amount of Dining Plans sold for any given day by this I mean calculate restaurant capacity and sell only about 70-75% of capacity.

WOULD IT HELP?:
I think portions of this suggestion would definitely help. But my point is that the restaurants are all full up regardless. You can’t do a walk up at all as it stands today, cancellations or not. I’m not sure how the 80/20 ADRs worked, so I can’t speak to that. All I know is that I would hate to have to wander around to every TS restaurant in Epcot looking for one that had not already filled up the additional 20%.

WILL IT HAPPEN?
Probably not. They’ve already changed the ADR days in advance back to 180. The problem with trying to limit the amount of dining plans only works for reservations made with advance notice of the DDP. If you just called up (say you were local), how would that distinction be made?

So in my feeble brain, the only way to prevent all of the premier TS restaurants from being booked solid is to cut back the number of DDP plans sold. And that’s not very likely. OR, they could improve the quality of all of the rest of the TS restaurants, like some at the resorts that are ranked pretty poorly.

All I can say is I’m glad we got the bulk of our rezzies made early, and we only have to worry about 2. Can you say breakfast? And certainly not a character one.

[Mickey91]

1) There are only two solutions
. . . WDW stops the DDP
. . . Guests stop being greedy
2) Neither are probable.

3) WDW is making too much money from DDP
. . . most people lose money when buying DDP
. . . fixed costs (burden) are over-absorbed
. . . net profits are way, way up in each eatery
4) Guests want to pig-out
. . . they don't care about quality of food *
. . . they don't care about the uniqueness of the food *
. . . they don't care about atmosphere *
. . . they want to just shove down the food

5) So, count on future ADR problems.
6) To quote that famous comic strip philosopher, Pogo
. . . we have met the enemy, and it is us

* I accept flames for the statement, but WDW has changed menus and food items, and the buying public doesn't care. They think they got a bargain, so they just chow-down. Meanwhile, the eateries dumb-down the menu items, reduce the atmosphere, and generally lower the dining experience. And, now, not only is WDW increasing the cost of DDP, they are increasing it for busy seasons. As WDW, politicians and PT Barnum have known for some time, never overestimate the intelligence of the public.
I'm disappointed but not surprised that Disney deals weren't any better this year with the economy so bad. And, I was shocked to see the comments on how great the deals have been. When comparing them to deals in the not so distant past, I can't believe shallow they are. We are booked for free dining in Sept. but for the short time we are going to be there,we still paid a tidy sum just to stay at the Pop. Our week long stay at the Poly for 5 people in 2003 was not much more. It makes me sick!

As for the dining problems, the DDP has created a hardship for getting ressies. Everyone now has a table service to use for every night of their stay. In the past, most people just wouldn't spend that kind of money or take that much time to dine. I agree that it is ashame that Disney restaurants have changed their menus. The value of the DDP has plummeted as the prices have soared and the menus are far from what they used to be. But, the prices and menus will remain the same even if you are not on the plan and the value still lies in whether or not as an individual family you are paying more or less than you would without it. When going to the Outback is the highlight of the year, most Disney TS restaurants are still on top! Disney's lack of guest consideration is beginning to dampen the magic though.

As for eating at the TS restaurants, the game rules for now are first come first serve. We all just kind of know that our chances shrink as time gets closer to the date. You must call the moment the lines open for the Castle. It is the reality we live in right now. I guess I don't understand why everyone is so upset about making dining ressies early. We were also late making our plans this year. We had to rearrange our park plans to accomodate where we wanted to eat and we are eating very early dinners. We were thrilled to be able to even get in! Had we not been able to eat at the places we wanted, I would have been disappointed, but I wouldn't be blasting the system. Where we enjoy eating there has always been difficulty in getting in, even back when you made ressies the day of. So, as I tell my kids, you might not think it is fair, but you have the play the game the way it is set up.

[SBETigg]

Phantod, you're going during the free dining period. I started with "granted, during free dining it is more of a problem," which you then chose to ignore in order to disagree. A previous poster already admitted you had her scared to make ADRs and in the end, she had no problems. I've also changed plans on the very day of an ADR and have been able to find openings for new ones without "settling." But of course, I've never gone during the Free Dining promotion.

Maybe the real solution, in that case, is to stop offering the free dining plan promotion (which they do already limit by offering only a certain number of packages per resort). They could offer room or package discounts instead of giving away the dining plan-- but I think this would actually disappoint more people than just the ones who called late to make ADRs and couldn't get what they wanted. They keep repeating the offer because it works. It draws people to WDW. It makes them money. So why would they stop? They have, in fact, increased it this year.

The real solution for you, then, is to make your ADRs ASAP or just know you might be out of luck, which isn't a problem for Disney and is only a problem for you if your enjoyment of your trip hinges on where you can eat. And again, you could always change your schedule and go when it isn't Free Dining, thus finding more ease and freedom in making ADRs and getting mostly what you want, even if you make the ADRs late in the game.

[blondeinbrandon]

This is why we stopped eating TS on site. I don't plan that well! Also I just can't see taking 2 hours to eat a meal. I have yet to have a TS meal that didn't need at least 2 hours to complete. We are more of a grab and go family.
But I did like making ressies in the morning at the park you were in. I do miss the video conferencing with Disney in EPCOT. Anyone remember how HIGH TECH it was ? Very cool.:thumbsup:

[Phantod]

Phantod, you're going during the free dining period. I started with "granted, during free dining it is more of a problem," which you then chose to ignore in order to disagree. A previous poster already admitted you had her scared to make ADRs and in the end, she had no problems. I've also changed plans on the very day of an ADR and have been able to find openings for new ones without "settling." But of course, I've never gone during the Free Dining promotion.

Maybe the real solution, in that case, is to stop offering the free dining plan promotion (which they do already limit by offering only a certain number of packages per resort). They could offer room or package discounts instead of giving away the dining plan-- but I think this would actually disappoint more people than just the ones who called late to make ADRs and couldn't get what they wanted. They keep repeating the offer because it works. It draws people to WDW. It makes them money. So why would they stop? They have, in fact, increased it this year.

The real solution for you, then, is to make your ADRs ASAP or just know you might be out of luck, which isn't a problem for Disney and is only a problem for you if your enjoyment of your trip hinges on where you can eat. And again, you could always change your schedule and go when it isn't Free Dining, thus finding more ease and freedom in making ADRs and getting mostly what you want, even if you make the ADRs late in the game.

SBETigg, I apologize for missing your original statement about the free dining period. I was rolling thru the posts pretty quickly and missed that. I meant no disrespect.

And you are totally correct. We're going to end up just trying to get some ADRs for the last 2 while we are there. We'll see how it works out.

When we originally did DDP back in 06 and 07, it included an appetizer and no tips were involved. That really was too much food, but I wish we had the option to choose between the appetizer and dessert.

This year, I'm going to document every meal we have...counting actual meal cost, how much we spend on tips, and how much time we spend at each restaurant. We're going to do this for both TS and counter. When we get back, I'll post the results. But bottom line, that evaluation will dramatically affect any future decisions to go to WDW. Since we live in Calif., it's a major undertaking and expense to begin with. We'll likely wait till our first grand child (almost 6 mos old now) is old enough to appreciate WDW before going again. Especially with the closure of Adventurer's Club which still really ticks us off.

But we likely will just do what you suggest, and not go during DDP time, but rather wait for one of the other special offers, like the one they had during the spring.

We have to make the decision as to whether or not we are going to WDW for food or the parks. I realize both are part of the experience, but we enjoyed WDW just as much before we ever TRIED the DDP.

Again, I apologize for not reading your original post accurately.

[CanadianWDWFan]

I have to agree with SBETigg on this one. Honestly we never have had any trouble getting any ADR that we have wanted. In fact just this week we booked two more ADR's for next week and got exactly the time that we wanted.

We don't try for the obscure places but some of the more popular ones. Granted for the really popular ones we try to book far in advance, but in general we book quite a few ADR's just a few weeks out.

I think that the key though is to be flexible in your times and dates. After all think about the huge number of folks visiting the parks. Are you really surprised that the restaurants are all booked? It's all in the numbers, small number of seats to huge numbers of guests.

[my2whirlies]

I think Disney should limit the number of TS reservations to the number of days on the trip (unless you bought the premium plan). We were planning on buying the plan again, but I am planning to double check the math after seeing that appetizers are now gone and tips not included. I'm not sure it's such a bargain. Also, if we can't get in at a TS meal, what's the point? I did take a look at the menus for some of our faves, and am really disappointed. They are lacking in quality of food offered. I mean, how many PB&J's should my kids have to choke down? I loved the creativity at the Castle a couple visits back. I had Filet and mashed potatoes with root veggies as well as asparagus. I see nothing comparable now. :(
Even LeCellier seems to have lost its good menu.

[Mickey'sGirl]

I think Disney should limit the number of TS reservations to the number of days on the trip (unless you bought the premium plan). We were planning on buying the plan again, but I am planning to double check the math after seeing that appetizers are now gone and tips not included. I'm not sure it's such a bargain. Also, if we can't get in at a TS meal, what's the point? I did take a look at the menus for some of our faves, and am really disappointed. They are lacking in quality of food offered. I mean, how many PB&J's should my kids have to choke down? I loved the creativity at the Castle a couple visits back. I had Filet and mashed potatoes with root veggies as well as asparagus. I see nothing comparable now. :(
Even LeCellier seems to have lost its good menu.
Not everybody gets the Dining Plan, or stays on site, so they could not limit reservations in the manner you suggest (although it would be a good idea). We opt to use the Tables In Wonderland card instead of purchasing a Dining Plan. We find the Plan too restrictive for how we eat. My kids will NOT eat PBJ or Mac and Cheese etc, so the TIW card allows them to order food from whichever menu appeals to them -- sometimes for our youngest, just an appetizer and a side of something. We also do not care to eat dessert at every meal (Ice cream is our thing). We will be down on Saturday for 14 nights at WDW. If we were on the plan, we would have 14 TS credits to use, as it is, we have made a couple of signature ressies in with our regular ressies, and we have the equivalent of 16 TS credits booked.

I agree that the Dining Plan has changed the menus offered at many establishments, and it's a shame.

As my DH stated just a couple of posts back, we have never had an issue getting the ADR's we want when we want them, making some just days before arriving. That said, we have so many favourites at WDW, that we rarely have our hearts set on any particular place. If we didn't get in this time, we would choose an alternate....but we have not had to do this.

[SBETigg]

We have to make the decision as to whether or not we are going to WDW for food or the parks. I realize both are part of the experience, but we enjoyed WDW just as much before we ever TRIED the DDP.

Again, I apologize for not reading your original post accurately.

Absolutely no problem. I do enjoy the food at WDW, and I honestly preferred the pre-dining plan days, too, when you didn't need to plan far ahead and the menus were generally more interesting. But I think the plan is here to stay, or at least for quite a few more years.

[LauraF]

Honestly, I've never had major problems getting a ADR anytime I've ever gone to WDW, even during free dining or surprise rehabs. I've had to juggle times or locations to make it work, but we do just fine.

I sometimes can't eat at EVERY place I want to in a trip, but I know I'll be going back again, so I'll try again next time. So many restaurants are good, it really doesn't matter to me.

The pleasure of my trip is *never* dependent on where I'm eating.
(Thankfully you don't need ADRs for a Dole Whip or I'd have to add a caveat here!)

[Goes4FastPass]

We don't really have big ADR problems when we book a WDW stay - even when we need to fill a "free" dining schedule.

We have places we like and with a little flexibility we usually get all or most of our choices.

People who approach the process with, "If I don't get Le Cellier for Tuesday at 6pm my life will

:ack::rant::humph:RUINED:ack::rant::humph:
need something more important to get wound up about.

I hope ADRS never go away. I certainly don't want to spend my WDW days sitting in the lobbies of restaurants holding one of those flashing coaster things.

There are two kind of restaurants in the city I live in: Those that take reservations and those where the cattle wait for the gum chewing 16 year old hostess to get to their page of waitlist names.

[DisneyWFan]

I'm not flaming you, Rusty, but I don't totally understand the logic. How are guests being greedy? They were offered an incentive for booking a package (especially if it's free dining). Room-only discounts are similar incentives. This is all because Disney wants to fill up their inventory of rooms. And you also state, on the other hand, that Disney is making loads of money on the DDP, so isn't it Disney that's being greedy? As far people getting their money's worth with the DDP, I think it's a toss-up since they changed the program (eliminating the appetizer and not including the gratuity). I, for one, am not a dessert eater, so am far less likely to come out ahead on the deal. I do concede that the quality of the food may suffer due to Disney management wanting to maximize their profits, but I ask again--how does this actually make the guest greedy? I use coupons at the grocery store. Does that make me greedy because I want to try and get a good deal?

Eventually I do think guests will get wise to the actual benefit of the dining plan, especially with the difficulty in getting an ADR. Then I guess Disney will have to use another tactic. :shrug:

.


I belive what The Rusty Scupper was referring to is the GREEDINESS of the people making multiple ADR's for the same time frame and not canceling them until the last minute if at all:mad:

[Goes4FastPass]

...the GREEDINESS of the people making multiple ADR's for the same time frame and not canceling them until the last minute if at all:mad:

And that kind of greedy selfishness is, I'm sorry to say, increasingly common.

[dyin tago]

al least if worst comes to worst and you can`t get enough ts seatings you can use a ts credit for a counter service and they give you a coupon for 2 extra snacks when you want them.

dining outdoors at caribbean beach or por on a nice rotisserie chicken or roast beef dinner is pretty good also!:eat:

[dyin tago]

oh,maybe they only do this for the free dining period because things get so booked up.

[rflorek]

RESPONSE:
Well, that’s interesting. We just added a couple of days to our trip, now beginning 9/20. So we have two more TSs. I tried (via online) to make a reservation on 9/28, a Monday. Shouldn’t be the hardest day of the week. For two adults, I requested 5:00 PM at Epcot (we don’t like to eat late). Here are my choices: Nine Dragons at 4:45. That’s it. Out of all of the TS restaurants at Epcot, that’s the sole choice for an early dinner. MK was even worse. Only availability is Plaza Restaurant at 3:25. And there is no way we’re going to wander around on that date trying each and every TS restaurant. At 7 PM at MK, there is nothing. At 7 PM at Epcot, there is Nine Dragons. At 8:55, Liberty Tavern at MK, and at 8:50 – 9:10 at Epcot there is Nine Dragons, Tokyo Dining, and the 2 French restaurants. Pretty pitiful pickings for a date 42 days out. And I can only ask, what’s wrong with Nine Dragons that it is available every time we requested? We’ve been there twice before, and the food was okay, nothing to write home about, but we were very disappointed in the service, so maybe I already know the answer.

So I don’t see how you can say there isn’t a problem? We had no problems when we booked at 90 days out either, but there sure is a problem, unless you are willing to “settle” when you try at 42 days.




I had a similar issue when changing some ADRS for late October. If I put in 6pm, nothing came up at my restuarant anywhere near my request time, and I was given bad alternatives. But when I changed it to 6:15 or 5:45, suddenly I hade options (usually 6:05 or 5:55) at the restaurant I originally wanted, plus a ton of others. I don't know if the time trick works all of the time, but it worked at least 3 times for me.