Is this Cheating the FP system????

[Imagineer1981]

So I was thinking about our upcoming trip and thought of a FP saving idea since we have a small child with us, but kinda feel like its cheating the system. At the same time, it will help us maximize our time with a young child, so what are your thoughts

For Example only: family of 4 = 4 park tickets = 4 FP

One child is only 3 and can't ride any of the major E-ticket attractions so if both parents want to ride, you need childswap typically. Heres the thought though, you still have potentially 4 FP options. Husband and Child 1 get FP for RnR, and Wife and Child 2 use their tickets for FP for ToT. Husband and Child 1 ride RNR using FP, then use child swap for Wife and Child 1 to ride RNR. Then go to TOT where Husband and Child 1 ride ToT with FP and then Wife and Child 1 ride ToT with child swap. Essentially by doing this you are able to get 2 attractions in by using FP and Child swap together and never had to wait in standby at all.

So like I said it kinda feels like cheating the system because you could all 4 get FP to RNR and then Child 1 just uses 2 FP to ride with different parents, but is it?? Don't judge me, I didn't do it, just something that I thought of. :confused:

[Iluvpooh]

I'm sure you will get several opinions on this, but here is mine...
No, I don't think this is cheating. If you have tickets then you are allowed fast passes for each of those tickets. So, it really doesn't matter who rides.
We went in February on a large family trip (13) and we got FPs for everyone for every ride. Sometimes the kids rode and some times they didn't and an adult rode twice. It is your choice what you do with your family's FPs.

Be prepared for and open to other opinions because you will probably get them. :blush:

[Gooftroop5]

If you get a fast pass to get thru the line then you need might need one for the 3 yo. However if you tell them at the beginning of the FP lane you are using the babyswap you might not need it for the 3yo. You will need one for each person riding not just one per adult & child to use the FP lane while another adult joins you to do the baby swap.

If you use the baby swap child #2 gets to ride again with the 2nd adult with or without another FP. At least that is how I undertsand the baby swap to work. Disney doesn't expect anyone to ride by themselves & the extra person has the option of riding again with the person who waited with the baby.

I might be wrong understanding babyswap. DH & I only used it once & that was when dd was little & long before the boys came along.

[Aurora]

I agree with IluvPooh about getting a FP for each ticket, but I'm confused about the scenario.

If Parent 1 and Child 1 get FPs to RnRC and Parent 2 and Child 2 get FPs to ToT, how do both parents get through the first FP line for the child swap? What I mean is, I could be wrong, but I believe you would need 3 tickets to get into the FP line, even if you're using child swap. But you would have only 2.

If you mean getting FPs consecutively (rather than at the same time), then it would work. But you wouldn't need the 4th FP. You would have 3 FPs for each ride, and Child 2 could ride twice with each parent with the child swap.

[ibelieveindisneymagic]

Although I'm sure others will feel differently, we do a variation of this every trip!

DD and I don't like thrill rides, so we use our tickets to get DH FastPasses to the rides he wants, and then he can ride them quickly, and we're not stuck waiting for him for a long time.

I'm OK with it, since we aren't increasing the number of FastPasses we're getting, or making anyone else wait longer.

I don't know how this works with ChildSwap though, if you'll be allowed it the FP line without a valid FastPass for everyone?

[chefmickey3]

You have it exactly right! We have done this with our family of 5 for several years. It works especially well in DHS. I run and get a FP for RnRC. Then we usually ride ToT with childswap (no line if it is early in the day, but you could get FP). Both of those attractions you get the childswap at the front entrance so everyone does not need to wait in line. (Side note, the only attraction that everyone waits in line is StarTours - when you are done riding the others in your party load right away.)

Side note, this is the first year that my youngest will be 40 inches. When they ask, What will you celebrate? My answer is Being 40"! It makes the vacation so much easier and requires less strategizing! Enjoy your upcoming trip!

[DizneyRox]

If I read this correctly, you are getting 2 Fast Passes for RnR and 2 Fast Passes for ToT. Only 2 people will be able to enter the RnR line and two poeple will be able to enter the ToT line. If you claim baby swap, each capable person riding it will need a FP. Otherwise the adult that doesn't enter the line keeps all the children that won't be riding.

So, yes, if you were able to do this, it's cheating the system, but I suspect you won't get all the riders into the FP line without valid FPs.

[eeyore27]

I don't think this is a violation of any rules of the FP system. Disney offers the child swap service so families can enjoy their vacations.

We have done this in the past for Soarin. Got the FP and told the CM at the entrance to the FP queue that we would be using child swap. He handed us a pass for the second party to use. The first party, DH and niece went through the FP queue, only needing 2 FP, while I waited with our son. When husband and niece were done, I then went with niece and gave the CM the child swap pass and we went through the FP queue. We only needed the initial 2 FP. I don't know if this scenario works for all the rides but it did when we rode Soarin.

59 days till I am in my happy place again. :mickey:

[KAJUNKING]

yes it works when you go to the line and tell the cm you are doing a baby swap they will give you a baby swap ticket which is basically a fast pass that lets up to 4 people go through the fast pass line, so then you and ds give up your fp tickets and when your done your dw and ds can ride using the baby swap ticket and then repeat at tot. pp is right about star tours because they don't give you a baby swap ticket, you wait at the ride entrance and hand the baby off as you swap

[chefmickey3]

[QUOTE=DizneyRox;1926024] If you claim baby swap, each capable person riding it will need a FP. Otherwise the adult that doesn't enter the line keeps all the children that won't be riding.
[QUOTE]

When you child swap using a FP, you get a child swap ticket that is good for you and up to three others. You don't need a FP to use child swap, but you go through the FP line. So in this scenerio you need 2 FP for each attraction for two people to ride and you child swap each. (Actually on child swap, both kids could ride meaning that one of the children gets to ride twice!) Not sure if that makes any more sense - but it works. :mickey:

[Imagineer1981]

Sorry, I thought I explained it well, but the scenario is this:

Dad goes to RnR with 2 tickets, gets two FP and then says he needs a child swap pass. Mom at the same time goes to ToT, gets two FP tickets and then says she needs a child swap pass. Now you have 2 Fp and a child swap for each attraction and go back at the given return time. Since the 2nd child is too small to ride, Dad and child 1 ride RnR through FP (using the 2 passes), come back out, and Mom and Child 1 ride RnR with the child swap. Same for ToT afterwards using the 2 FP and then the childswap. Essentially you rode 2 e-ticket attractions and never had a wait because you used the 2nd child's ticket for ToT and the 1st child rode each ride twice!

[KAJUNKING]

Sorry, I thought I explained it well, but the scenario is this:

Dad goes to RnR with 2 tickets, gets two FP and then says he needs a child swap pass. Mom at the same time goes to ToT, gets two FP tickets and then says she needs a child swap pass. Now you have 2 Fp and a child swap for each attraction and go back at the given return time. Since the 2nd child is too small to ride, Dad and child 1 ride RnR through FP (using the 2 passes), come back out, and Mom and Child 1 ride RnR with the child swap. Same for ToT afterwards using the 2 FP and then the childswap. Essentially you rode 2 e-ticket attractions and never had a wait because you used the 2nd child's ticket for ToT and the 1st child rode each ride twice!

i think most people don't understand that when using child swap they give you a ticket that is basically a fast pass good for 4 people

[DizneyRox]

i think most people don't understand that when using child swap they give you a ticket that is basically a fast pass good for 4 people
Correct, I didn't understand that. This appears to be a gaping hole in the FP system, in effect turns 1 FP into 4 people potentially riding. The Child Swap ticket should be good for the number of FP tickets used to get in. Something tells me this will (or should be) fixed.

I could ask the CM and point to a baby I don't even know waiting out in the shade, or whatever. Having child swap tickets and a Sharpie is all that's necessary to fix this.

[Imagineer1981]

Correct, I didn't understand that. This appears to be a gaping hole in the FP system, in effect turns 1 FP into 4 people potentially riding. The Child Swap ticket should be good for the number of FP tickets used to get in. Something tells me this will (or should be) fixed.

I could ask the CM and point to a baby I don't even know waiting out in the shade, or whatever. Having child swap tickets and a Sharpie is all that's necessary to fix this.

They have done it this way since I worked there 5 years ago. When you go to a CM you just have to ask for the child swap, 90% of the time you don't even need to have a baby or small child with you. My basic scenario is just gaining essentially an extra FP because of childswap, your only wait time is for the 1st group to get through the ride. You could do this every 2 hours, getting FP for attractions that have child swap, basically 2 attractions for the price of 1.

[Disney Doll]

I don't think it's really cheating. We have taken more fast passes than we really needed on a few occasions. In our case someone usually chickens out and then someone else volunteers to wait with the chicken so they aren't alone. We end up just giving away the extra 2 passes.

[georger]

I don't think this is cheating the system. I think that families with young children need this so both parents can enjoy riding with or without children.

[Mickey'sGirl]

They have done it this way since I worked there 5 years ago. When you go to a CM you just have to ask for the child swap, 90% of the time you don't even need to have a baby or small child with you. My basic scenario is just gaining essentially an extra FP because of childswap, your only wait time is for the 1st group to get through the ride. You could do this every 2 hours, getting FP for attractions that have child swap, basically 2 attractions for the price of 1.
We always had to appear with our child for the swap. DH had to call me over if I was lagging behind.

That said, the original poster's proposal would absolutely be above board according to the rules of the swap as they are now.

[pook@wdw]

Not cheating. Just inventive planning! :D

[wdwfansince75]

To the OP; It is not cheating, but it may not work....We used the Child Swap on our last trip (6/2008)....For most attractions, if there were 3 individual riders, even if only 2 rode at a time, the person who sat out the first ride swapped the FP for the Swap Pass...and the two riders entered the FP line, surrendering the FP in the usual way...upon exiting, one of the first riders joined the Swapper, and entered the FP line for a second ride...So in that scenario, it would take you 3 FP's for each ride....

However, on several rides, including Splash and Test Track, the Child Swap ticket was given without surrendering the FP of the person who sat out the first ride.....I was usually the beneficiary of the extra FP, using it for a third ride while the others headed for the next FP attraction.


Seems as if there is some confusion...It may work, but you may be asked to surrender an FP for the non-rider in order to receive a Child Swap ticket.

Note that you can get a Child Swap ticket for the Standby line....For an EMH morning at AK, we got FP's for EE....then got a Child Swap pass, and rode using the standby line.....allowed me to do EE four times before breakfast...the standby line, then CS (using the FP line), then the FP line with DS#2, DGS#3, and DGD#3, and then, for my fourth ride of the morning, using the CS ticket with DDiL#2, DGS#3, and DGD#3. Got the front seat twice, and the back seat once.....

[buzznwoodysmom]

Correct, I didn't understand that. This appears to be a gaping hole in the FP system, in effect turns 1 FP into 4 people potentially riding. The Child Swap ticket should be good for the number of FP tickets used to get in. Something tells me this will (or should be) fixed.




I doubt anything will be done to "fix" this. My kids are now 9 and 7 and we've been going to WDW with them since they were 2 years old and 9 months old and this is how baby swap has always been. However, the baby swap is for up to 3 people, not 4. The reason it allows 3 people is so that the parent who stays behind with the "baby" the first time doesn't have to then ride by themselves. Why its 3 people and not 2 I have no idea, but the reason above is what I've been told on countless occasions. The baby swap has nothing to do with any fastpasses the family already has. There is no way for a CM to know if or how many fastpasses a family has when they get the baby swap passes.

To the OP, what you are planning to do is what we've done plenty of times. I don't feel that we are cheating the system in anyway. We are getting a baby swap for a child who isn't tall enough to ride a ride, and we are getting fastpasses that are allowed with our park admission. In some cases you have to show the child that is too young to ride in order to get the baby swap, but there have been many times I didn't have to have the child with me to get the baby swap. It just depends on the CM. Also, you can get a baby swap for a child that is tall enough to ride a ride, but too scared too. We've never been told no when asking to get a baby swap for my son who refuses to ride TOT and EE. Have fun and good luck!

[magicofdisney]

I don't think this is cheating because I think this is exactly how it's intended to work. Unfortunately, people were abusing this system (don't let the shock scare you) and getting child swaps (gasp) without a child! Suddenly, child swap tickets, in the form of Fast Passes, showed up on eBay and were going for outrageous sums. So now, the CM asks to see the child (and sometimes the other adult) for which the child swap ticket will be used.

[crazypoohbear]

I don't think it's cheating. You bought the ticket, you can use it to get a fast pass. Simple.
You have a child, you can use the child swap.
No harm, no foul

[Sneaky Pete]

Where do you get the baby swap pass, from the CM taking the FP?

[DizneyRox]

It's just amazing how easy it would be to work this system.

Almost sounds like each FP can get a child swap pass, and with CMs alternating positions often, it has to be pretty easy to stretch this into a chain of FP rides, ala double the amount of normal FPs.

If someone can answer one question, are the child swap tickets specific to each attraction, I hope so...

Hopefully the close this loophole soon, now that the cat is out of the bag. Granted it seems others already know about this...

[buzznwoodysmom]

It's just amazing how easy it would be to work this system.

Almost sounds like each FP can get a child swap pass, and with CMs alternating positions often, it has to be pretty easy to stretch this into a chain of FP rides, ala double the amount of normal FPs.

If someone can answer one question, are the child swap tickets specific to each attraction, I hope so...

Hopefully the close this loophole soon, now that the cat is out of the bag. Granted it seems others already know about this...

Yes the baby swap pass is specific to the attraction from which you got it, as far as I remember.

You keep mentioning that each FP can get a baby swap pass, but the two really have nothing to do with each other. You don't have to have a FP to get the babyswap pass. They are two completely different things. And the babyswap ticket is not identical to the FP. You get one ticket that looks a bit like a FP, but if I am not mistaken says babyswap on it. You get only one babyswap ticket per child who can't ride. When you return with that one ticket the CM will allow up to 3 people in your party to enter the fastpass lane, but all must go on at the same time. Its not like having 3 fastpasses which can be used at different times. I am not sure you are understanding exactly how the babyswap works. I don't think its a "loop whole" that needs to be fixed, and I don't think enough people are "working the system" (selling them on ebay or whatnot) that it is affecting other guests.

[Imagineer1981]

Yes the baby swap pass is specific to the attraction from which you got it, as far as I remember.

You keep mentioning that each FP can get a baby swap pass, but the two really have nothing to do with each other. You don't have to have a FP to get the babyswap pass. They are two completely different things. And the babyswap ticket is not identical to the FP. You get one ticket that looks a bit like a FP, but if I am not mistaken says babyswap on it. You get only one babyswap ticket per child who can't ride. When you return with that one ticket the CM will allow up to 3 people in your party to enter the fastpass lane, but all must go on at the same time. Its not like having 3 fastpasses which can be used at different times. I am not sure you are understanding exactly how the babyswap works. I don't think its a "loop whole" that needs to be fixed, and I don't think enough people are "working the system" (selling them on ebay or whatnot) that it is affecting other guests.

Correct FP and Child Swap are not related. You can go up to the CM and ask for a Child swap and just walk away and come back 3 hours later, doesn't matter. You just enter through FP when you return (not saying do this, but you could).

By using the child who can't ride's FP wisely, as I stated in the OP, you get to ride 2 E-ticket rides without the usually 2 hour waiting period between FPs.

[wire0monkey]

I don't think it's cheating. We did something like this on the last trip, without the child swap.

Example: We got 4 FPs for Soarin'. When our FP window arrived, DS#1 (age 5) and Dad rode Soarin, while DS#2 (age 3) and I went on Living with the Land. Then DS#1 and I rode Soarin', while DS#2 and Dad walked over to the Seas and rode Nemo and friends. Then we met in front of the Nemo statute and went on to the next thing.

This procedure was greatly helped by the fact that it was the week after Labor Day and crowds were light. We were walking onto Living with the Land and Nemo.

We paid for 4 tickets and we got 4 fast passes. It shouldn't matter who uses the fast passes.

It's a great time for the kid who gets to ride twice, BTW.

[DizneyRox]

I was trying not to spell it out, but maybe I'm not reading this right. I'm going to try to simplify this and please tell me if I'm not understanding this.

Basically, what I see is, one adult is getting a FP for RnRC, and the other is getting a FP for ToT.

Parent 1 uses their FP for RnRC and gets a child swap pass. When done they give the child swap pass to parent 2 and they ride RnRC.

When parent 2 is done with RnRC, they get into the FP line for ToT and get a child swap pass. When they are done, they give the child swap pass to Parent 1 and then that person rides, ToT.

So, as you can see, they in effect held TWO FPs at the same time and rode two attractions. Parent 2 would have needed a FP to enter the line for RnRC if they didn't have a kid. Parent 1 would need a FP for ToT if they didn't have a kid.

The same couple without kids would only be able to ride RnRC or ToT, as both people would need a FP to ride. And they would not be able to get a FP for say ToT until 2 hours after they got one for RnRC.

Am I wrong in how this is being used? If the above is true, they I do see this as an abuse of the FP system, and maybe currently follows the rules, but if you have a family of 4, it can get way out of control.

[buzznwoodysmom]

The above senario is one way to do it. The thing is that the couple with the child who can't ride won't be able to ride together anyway. It would be stupid of them to both get a fastpass for the same attraction when babyswap exists for them. I don't see it as abusing the system at all, I see as good time management. It takes a lot of time for parents to ride any attraction that their kids can't ride, because even with a fastpass and baby swap you still have to go through some sort of line twice. The whole reason for babyswap is to make it easier on both the parents and the child who has to wait while the parents ride.

The couple without children, not only get to ride together and only have to "wait" through the line once, but if smart can utilize fastpass to minimize their wait time as well. If a couple without kids is smart they can enter the park,go straight to RNRC to get fastpasses then hop in the TOT standby line with a very little wait time. Then when they get off ToT their fastpass window will be about to open up. The couple without kids can ride both rides in the same or less time as the couple with the kid who used fastpass and babyswap. To me everyone should be happy!

Here is how we do it. I have a child who is tall enough for ToT, but scared to ride, and a child who isn't tall enough for RNRC. We enter the park and go straight to TOT all together and are always given a babyswap for that attraction so that my husband can come back and ride it later, me and DS get in the standby line. My husband then goes and gets fastpasses for all of us at RNRC. He and my other son get in the standby line at RNRC and always ask for a baby swap since DS that is with me isn't tall enough to ride. Most times they are given the babyswap. When they get off RNRC I get to go with DS with the babyswap and DH goes on ToT with other DS with the babyswap. So my two son's get to ride their favorite attraction twice using the babyswap, which is not abusing any system because babyswap is good for up to 3 people. Then we have our fastpasses for RNRC to use incase the CM won't give a babyswap since DS who is not tall enough isn't with DH when he gets in the standby line. If we do get both babyswap and the fastpasses we either let DS ride again with one of us or if we've had enough we give the fastpasses away to a family of 4.

Either way I don't see how any of this is cheating the system. No one has multiple fastpasses at the same time, because fastpasses and babyswap are two different things for different reasons.

[Imagineer1981]

I was trying not to spell it out, but maybe I'm not reading this. I'm going to try to simplify this and please tell me if I'm not understanding this.

Basically, what I see is, one adult is getting a FP for RnRC, and the other is getting a FP for ToT.

Parent 1 uses their FP for RnRC and gets a child swap pass. When done they give the child swap pass to parent 2 and they ride RnRC.

When parent 2 is done with RnRC, they get into the FP line for ToT and get a child swap pass. When they are done, they give the child swap pass to Parent 1 and then that person rides, ToT.

So, as you can see, they in effect held TWO FPs at the same time and rode two attractions. Parent 2 would have needed a FP to enter the line for RnRC if they didn't have a kid. Parent 1 would need a FP for ToT if they didn't have a kid.

The same couple without kids would only be able to ride RnRC or ToT, as both people would need a FP to ride. And they would not be able to get a FP for say ToT until 2 hours after they got one for RnRC.

Am I wrong in how this is being used? If the above is true, they I do see this as an abuse of the FP system, and maybe currently follows the rules, but if you have a family of 4, it can get way out of control.

Correct, you are holding FP for two different attractions at the SAME by utilizing all 4 tickets, 2 for one, two for the other and then baby swap for each ride.

As to the post above, I am with you, even though you are holding FP for 2 attractions at the same time, you are still going through the FP line twice at each attraction.

[DizneyRox]

Correct, you are holding FP for two different attractions at the SAME by utilizing all 4 tickets, 2 for one, two for the other and then baby swap for each ride.
This is where I have a problem. You (not YOU, but anyone doing this) have 4 people riding as fast pass holders with only two physical fastpasses. And, you're doing this for two different rides.

Yes, you are going through the FP queue line twice, but without the baby swap, 2 people would be going through the FP queue (short) and two people would need to go to the standby (long).

And, since the child swap would get you 4 people, in theory, each of the 4 people could go to an attraction and get a FP (at the same time) and one person would use that FP, get a child swap, and then those 3 that got FP else where use the childpass to ride. In effect all 4 are holding 4 fastpasses.

That's all I'm saying, if it's legal, then sign me up, and I'll use this to the fullest extent possible! Honestly this is nothing short of a constant front of the line pass (almost better than a GAC). With that 2 hour window, it's not only possible but probable that you could do this all day and not have to wait in a single significant ride line. SCHWEET!

[Mickey'sGirl]

It is important to note that Rider Switch passes are NOT available for all rides, only those with a height restriction. So one could not use this strategy for Peter Pan, or Pirates or HM or anything like that ... but for the "big rides".

[TheVBs]

Excellent strategy! :thumbsup: We'll definitely use this suggestion next time we go. :mickey:

[Imagineer1981]

This is where I have a problem. You (not YOU, but anyone doing this) have 4 people riding as fast pass holders with only two physical fastpasses. And, you're doing this for two different rides.

Yes, you are going through the FP queue line twice, but without the baby swap, 2 people would be going through the FP queue (short) and two people would need to go to the standby (long).

And, since the child swap would get you 4 people, in theory, each of the 4 people could go to an attraction and get a FP (at the same time) and one person would use that FP, get a child swap, and then those 3 that got FP else where use the childpass to ride. In effect all 4 are holding 4 fastpasses.

That's all I'm saying, if it's legal, then sign me up, and I'll use this to the fullest extent possible! Honestly this is nothing short of a constant front of the line pass (almost better than a GAC). With that 2 hour window, it's not only possible but probable that you could do this all day and not have to wait in a single significant ride line. SCHWEET!

The key point to my OP is that the 2nd child is too small for any of the E-tickets, so only 3 of the 4 people are riding each ride. I assume, however you could do this with all 4 riding too, just ask for the swap saying the child is too scared and come back later to use it?

[DizneyRox]

Yeah, I hear you... I've used other people's FP that didn't want to ride, etc. That's different than using a FP to get a swap pass to get others in that didn't get a FP for the same attraction...