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WDWdriver
06-04-2009, 07:48 AM
From the Daytona Beach News-Journal

ORLANDO, Fla. (AP) -- Activists for the disabled brought their Segways into a federal court Wednesday to urge a judge to reject a settlement between Walt Disney World and three visitors restricting the use of the personal transporters at the resort.

Two-dozen activists parked Segways in the back of the courtroom where U.S. District Judge George Presnell is considering whether to approve the settlement between Disney and three visitors who were prohibited from bringing the vehicles into the theme parks.

The agreement allows Disney to continue placing restrictions on the use of Segways at its theme parks. The resort prohibits the unsupervised use of Segways for safety reasons, even though employees use them and Disney operates supervised tours for guests using the two-wheel, upright scooters. Under the January settlement, Disney patrons can rent electric standup vehicles, but can't bring their own Segways.

Disney agreed to pay each plaintiff $4,000 and two of the plaintiffs' attorneys fees of $70,000. One of the plaintiffs used a Segway because of multiple sclerosis, another because of an partially amputated foot and a third because of Lou Gehrig's disease, according to the original lawsuit.

Many people who can stand but can't easily walk prefer Segways to wheelchairs.

The U.S. Justice Department filed an objection to the settlement in March in a friend-of-court brief, claiming the settlement violates the Americans with Disabilities Act. Florida Attorney General Bill McCollum also filed an objection, along with attorneys generals in 22 other states.

"The Department rarely objects to the voluntary settlement of ADA claims between private litigants," according to the Justice Department filing.

Kerry Scanlon, a Disney attorney, said the vehicles available for rent at the parks provide adequate access. They cost $45 a day to rent, Disney spokeswoman Andrea Finger said.

"We are providing real access to the parks in the same way everybody else has access," Scanlon told the judge.

Hearings on the settlement are expected to last several days.

One of the plaintiffs in the original lawsuit, Dan Wallace, said he thought the settlement was fair. Wallace, 32, of Chatham, Ill., sued after he learned while planning a family vacation that he would not be able to bring his Segway. He has a partially amputated foot.

"I would prefer to have my Segway," Wallace said. "But I really do think this is the best option that I could come out with. It's a great compromise."

mrbghd
06-04-2009, 09:09 AM
Where to begin. Its bad enough getting run over by the scooters and now we have to be on the lookout for Segways. At least the ones Disney rents have speed limiters as opposed to personal ones that can reach speeds of around 20mph. Think of the potential dangers of soemone trying to go 20 mph while leaving the MK at the end of the night. Where are my rights to not get run down?

Scar
06-04-2009, 11:34 AM
Sign me up! I'll take $4,000.00 and agree to never bring a segway to a park.

ElenitaB
06-04-2009, 01:45 PM
While I think that the two previous posters were blatantly insensitive to the needs of those who brought the lawsuit (as someone who now has to use a scooter due to physical limitations, I can guarantee that these are not people out for $4k or wanting to run down people while taking a Segway out for a joyride), I do worry about people renting Segways who have no previous training to use them, just as people have rented wheelchairs and scooters to obtain what they perceive as "special privileges." As careful as I am with the rented scooters, I am aware that I'm not the world's best driver with them, particularly when someone walks right in front of me and stops, etc. (but that's a topic for a different thread). And that's a scooter...

I fear that inexperienced Segway users could wreck havoc on themselves and other park goers. Due to the rules put in place by the ADA, Disney employees cannot ask for proof of a disability. And I'm guessing there is no Segway driver license. I really wonder if the court ruled correctly in this matter. I can see allowing people to bring their own Segways as that would curtail people wanting to rent a Segway just so they can try them out, but can also see Disney's wanting to have the speed limiters in place. This will be interesting.

Scar
06-04-2009, 04:32 PM
I was not being insensetive to their needs. They can bring their own (or rent) wheelchair or scooter. Just like anyone else who has physical limitations.

My sarcasm was directed at the fact that they felt they deserve more liberties than is necessary. And if their cause really was to be able to use the segways, why did they settle without being able to use them?

EeyoresBestFriend
06-04-2009, 06:37 PM
I'm not sure about this one.

I understand the disability side of it, but the didn't seem to be a reason why they could not just rent an ECV.

And I also worry that there is no way to govern their behaviour once in the park. I should hope that they would set them on a slow or limited speed for the safety of others (speaking as someone that has been run down by ECVS before ~ like I'm sure we all have once or twice).

I guess Disney could revoke (not refund) their WDW pass if they are dangerous / inconsiderate on them. I'd like to think that the ones who would use the Segways would do so responsibly.

Time will tell if this was a good court decision or not, I guess . . . :confused:

ElenitaB
06-04-2009, 08:47 PM
I really don't want to enter into debate here, however, there are some points to be made:

The people who brought the suit maintain that they function best when in a standing position and use Segways in their everyday life to assist and enable their mobilty. Their point was that not everyone is best served by an ECV or a wheelchair. (In my case, a wheelchair would not be of use because, as a single mom, I only have my son to push me. We tried it when he was 12 because all the ECVs were rented by the time we arrived at the MK. The experience was a disaster. Did this same debate take place when ECVs were introduced in the parks?) When I was originally reading about this case, I believe that one of the plaintiffs' conditions involved his back and that sitting for any period of time was extremely uncomfortable. Without knowing greater details of each person's case (which is between them and their medical team), it's not for me to say what is best for them.

Like refillable mugs and holding tables at CS restaurants, the topic of ECVs —and now Segways— always seems to elicit great debate and, unfortunately and ultimately, judgment of those who use them. Many of us have a chronic condition or invisible disabilty, and therefore are deemed to just too lazy to walk (or stand, in the case of Segways). I, for one, am not asking for special privileges. I pay the same airfares and restaurant prices and DVC dues and souvenir prices as anyone else who vacations at Disney. Without the use of the ECV (or Segway for those who use them), a vacation would be impossible. I would give ANYTHING not to have to use it and return to my former (then unappreciated) state of health. I would bet that, if possible, the man with the partial amputation would pay far more than four thousand dollars to get the rest of his foot back as would the person with MS or the person with ALS.

They did not settle without being able to use Segways; they will be able to rent them in the parks. "Under the January settlement, Disney patrons can rent electric standup vehicles, but can't bring their own Segways." (Emphasis mine.) The settlement was that they could not use their own personal Segway. Whether that was the right or wrong decision we most certainly can —and probably will— debate. However, I do not believe that I personally have the authority to dictate that they should use an ECV or wheelchair.

As for being run over by ECVs or wheelchairs, I must say that when I was mobile and able to get around on my own two feet, I was run over more than once by strollers. You can find inconsiderate people all over the place (as are those who walk RIGHT in front of my ECV and then stop... I don't think you'd appreciate that even when walking, but you more than likely don't even notice because you can step aside without even thinking about it).

Like others here, I worry about the safety of people using equipment that they are unfamiliar with, and that of those around them. And the "people" I refer to are not the people involved in the case as they do use them on a daily basis, but Joe or Jane Parkgoer who will do some math and realize that they can rent a cool Segway for an entire day for only $45 when the tours cost more and you only get to use the equipment for an hour or two.

That's my :twocents: I'm going to go sit down on my soap box now... I'm sure the debate will ensue.

:popcorn:

JPL
06-04-2009, 09:32 PM
As careful as I am with the rented scooters, I am aware that I'm not the world's best driver with them, particularly when someone walks right in front of me and stops, etc. (but that's a topic for a different thread). And that's a scooter...


My toes can back this statement up ;)



I will say that as long as Disney has speed regulators on them and ensures that the operator has training on a segway.I would have no problem with them. However I can imagine people renting them for $45 a day since it's much cheaper than the Segway Tours just to get the thrill of it all.

Scar
06-05-2009, 11:29 AM
They did not settle without being able to use Segways; they will be able to rent them in the parks. "Under the January settlement, Disney patrons can rent electric standup vehicles, but can't bring their own Segways." (Emphasis mine.) The settlement was that they could not use their own personal Segway.Hmmm... When I read that I was thinking some sort of modified scooter, like with raised handlebars and a butt rest or something. If they do supply Segways, then I am wrong. If it is Segways, I hope they put a governor on them.

Scar
06-05-2009, 11:32 AM
Oh, and I knew someone who had ALS. Not exactly the kind of condition with which I would want someone using a Segway.

EeyoresBestFriend
06-06-2009, 01:13 AM
I was not saying that they should not have some form of assistance, just that for the ones that do need it there will surely be a percentage of 'system beaters' out there that will abuse the system "just cuz they can".

Before I get jumped all over ~ I also have a major disability that can and does often interfere with my vacationing (including WDW trips). It's not something that I care to broadcast because I feel when I choose to vacation ~ it is my responsibility to choose a spot that I can safely vacation. Sometimes, because it is not easily visible, folks make "assumptions".
But I also don't demand that Disney jump through hoops to accomodate me. I see nothing wrong with that ~ they provide services enough to make sense for the majority of their customer base. With my "issue", as much as I would love to, I will never be able to fly to Europe to see Tuscany, but I don't expect the airlines to make a special plane just for my situation.

I guess what I mean is sometimes you just have to accept that there are some things you either have to compromise on or just not do.
'Kay, off my :soapbox:

casey@bat
06-06-2009, 08:56 AM
Idea:
People who own their on segways could drive them to the stroller/wheel chair rental place, leave it their, and rent one of Disney's segways that is hopefully governed down. Then they could only allow people who own one to rent one. And they would be used to driving them.

ElenitaB
06-07-2009, 04:27 PM
Oh, and I knew someone who had ALS. Not exactly the kind of condition with which I would want someone using a Segway.
That's about as precise as saying "I know someone who has Alzheimer's." Unless you're their doc, you have no idea what stage of the disease they're at. My point is that without more information about a person's condition, you can't make assumptions. And WDW cannot ask...

Casey, I like your idea but the whole thing really does seem kind of silly. After all, I can bring my own ECV; why shouldn't they be allowed to bring their own Segways (and not pay $45 a day)?

brownie
10-07-2009, 07:53 AM
From Bloomberg News:

Disney Wins Dismissal of Suit Over Segways, Settlement Voided

By Sophia Pearson and Doris Bloodsworth

Oct. 7 (Bloomberg) -- Walt Disney Co. won dismissal of a lawsuit claiming a ban on personal two-wheel transporters at its facilities violates federal disabilities laws, after a judge rejected a proposed settlement in the case.

Two Illinois residents and one from Iowa sued Disney in November 2007 after the company barred them from using the Segway Personal Transporter on family vacations at four theme parks in Florida. As an alternative to Segways, Disney agreed in December to acquire at least 15 newly designed electric stand-up vehicles to settle the case.

U.S. District Judge Gregory Presnell in Orlando yesterday voided an earlier decision granting preliminary approval to the settlement and threw out the case. The plaintiffs, who are all able to use wheelchairs or scooters, failed to show that Segways were “necessary” to access the park, Presnell said in the decision.

“Although some individuals may, with good reason, not want to use those devices and instead prefer to use a Segway, that preference -- standing alone -- is not essential to accessing Disney’s Parks,” Presnell wrote in the opinion.

Bernard Dempsey, an attorney for plaintiff Mahala Ault, and Jason Medley, representing plaintiff Stacie Rhea, didn’t immediately return phone and e-mail messages seeking comment yesterday. John Baker and J. Phillip Krajewski, attorneys for plaintiff Dan Wallace, also didn’t return phone messages.

“This ruling is consistent with what we’ve advocated all along in this case that we have appropriately balanced the need to maintain a safe environment for everyone while at the same time meeting our legal requirements to provide access to those with mobility impairments,” Andrea Finger, a spokeswoman for Disney, said in a phone interview.

7,000 Riders

The Segway, a two-wheeled, self-balancing transportation device, allows riders to remain upright and steer with body movements. The device, first sold in 2002, is used by as many as 7,000 people in the U.S. with mobility-related disabilities, according to court documents.

Disabled people who objected to the settlement argued at a court hearing this year that the Segway was their preferred choice of transportation. The Justice Department argued that the settlement agreement would compromise its ability to regulate the theme park industry.

Aaron Bates, an attorney for many of the objectors, said yesterday’s decision was a “win” for people with disabilities.

“This leaves the door open for others to file suit, and the government may soon recognize Segways in the same way they do wheelchairs and other mobility devices,” Bates said in a phone interview.

Disney’s new vehicles, called ESVs, would replicate in dimension and operation a wheelchair while allowing users to stand upright, the company said in court papers. Under the terms of the settlement, the vehicles would have been rented on the same terms as sit-down electric vehicles.

The case is Ault v. Walt Disney World Co., 07-01785, U.S. District Court, Middle District of Florida (Orlando).

Last Updated: October 7, 2009 00:01 EDT

wire0monkey
10-09-2009, 10:38 AM
My sarcasm was directed at the fact that they felt they deserve more liberties than is necessary. And if their cause really was to be able to use the segways, why did they settle without being able to use them?

Because Disney agreed to make a different kind of stand-up scooter available to visitors who need them. Disney compromised a little and the plaintiffs compromised a little. It's how adults work out disputes.

If the plaintiffs didn't have a bit of a point, why would Disney make stand-up scooters available?