Pooh-sized passengers paying more?

[Granny Jill A]

"For the comfort and well-being of all customers aboard United Airlines..." If you "are unable to fit into a single seat in the ticketed cabin; are unable to properly buckle the seatbelt using a single seatbelt extender; and/or are unable to put the seat's armrests down when seated," then you may be subject to extra charges or required to re-book your trip.

I am no skinny-minnie and have always struggled with the old poundage issue, so I am very sympathetic to all who have similar issues. But I am of the opinion that if I purchase one seat, then I am entitled to sit in that seat - all of it.

Is the airline justified in making this rule?

Keep it nice, please. Thank you. :D

[conwayjohn71]

I used to be a person of some size so I think I can understand both sides of this issue

As for why the airlines do this.......

When someone sits nest to a person of size on a plane and the larger person is past the armrest it is invading on the other persons space that he/she paid for, that person complains to the airline after the flight they generally give that person flight vochers for thier next trip

Bottom line, it cost the airlines money

[BigRedDad]

It depends on your definition of "fit" into the seat. If the people next to you cannot put their arm rest down because of the person's size next to them, is that fair? The made a very clear, easy to follow set of rules that they will abide by. What could be more viable is have a "seat fitting section at the airline in a secluded room. For those larger passengers, they can pre-certify that they fit so there are no awkward encounters on the plane.

I sat next to a hefty person once. They flabbed completely out of their seat and over into my seat, the aisle, and there was no room for anything. It took 20 minutes for the person just to get out of the seat to let me up. If it is that big of an issue for those that cannot fit, then 1st class is their option or purchase two seats. Fortunately, I was moved to 1st class because they could not have the guy tie up the aisle for 20 minutes trying to get back in.

[Ed]

But I am of the opinion that if I purchase one seat, then I am entitled to sit in that seat - all of it.

Is the airline justified in making this rule?

Keep it nice, please. Thank you. :D

I agree - let's play nice on this topic, folks.

Jill, I agree that plus-sized passengers are entitled to occupy the seat that they paid for. But looking at it from the airline's perspective, if that passenger is also occupying a significant portion of the adjacent seat as well, they can't expect the passenger who paid for that adjacent seat to only have the use of half of it. Therefore, that seat has to go unsold, resulting in lost revenue for the airline.

In the past, that was not usually a big deal because most flights were only 70-80% sold (some flights much less) because the airlines used to run a lot more flights to the same destinations every day. Fuel was cheaper and big, spacious airplanes were the norm. But in the last few years, almost every airline has cut back on their daily departures to the same destinations, using the logic that it makes a whole lot more financial sense to fly one full plane than to fly two half-empty ones. Many airlines are also using smaller aircraft in keeping with the realities of their passenger loads. Every empty seat counts (in a negative way) when it comes to the bottom line.

So, although it creates a PR black eye for them, the airlines are caught between the old famous "rock and a hard place". In a time when every dollar is critical to an airline's continued viability, they are looking for every possible source of revenue to try to stay in the black; hence the higher fares, charges for checked baggage and on-board snacks, and (as in this case) seats that they cannot sell to another customer.

The options for larger passengers are, unfortunately, rather limited. On those airlines that have such seating, perhaps purchasing one of the more spacious seats in first class or business class would be one option. They could also do some research and book their flight on an airline that does not follow the policy adopted by United. Beyond that, there are really very few options other than 'biting the bullet' and paying the additional charge.

[Ian]

My opinion is that if you can't fit comfortably within the confines of one seat ... i.e. between the armrests without spilling over ... then you need to buy a second ticket.

As someone who has spent a cross-country flight with only half a seat to sit in, I can speak first-hand to how uncomfortable it is.

IMO, you're not buying passage for your body from point A. to point B. You're buying space on the plane. If you can't fit in that space, then you need to pay for additional space.

[MMFreak]

I agree with the airlines. If I am paying for an entire seat I should be able to use the entire seat not have to share it with someone that is spilling over.

Oooo jeez thats right I do that anyway. When I travel with my kids they always flip the arm up and postion themselves so they can lay in my lap in complete comfort.:D

make a note...have the airlines make the arm rests stationary LOL

[GAN]

What exactly are the "extra" charges? I was under the assumption that most airlines were allowing plus-sized passengers to book 2 seats in order to make the flight more comfortable for everyone for a while now. Of course, if someone hasn't flown in a while then how would they know the seat size might be an issue? I fit just right, but if someone were to sit next to me that needed some extra "elbow" room, we'd be in trouble. Like Tigg mentioned, it wasn't such a problem before when flights weren't as full. I think if a person might not fit, they should offer to pay the extra charges(or buy 2 seats) out of respect for the other passengers -even if it may be a financial inconvenience. While this is probably unrealistic, but if the airline knew the flight wasn't fully booked they should try to accommodate the passenger by not assessing the extra charge.

[dmosher]

I have to agree with the airlines on this one. Not trying to be harsh, but we do live in a society where people accommodate a bit too much. I tis nice (regardless of the reason) to see a company saying no, despite they lobbyists (yes they are trying) trying to get seats replaced with larger versions. This has been on the plate for a few years now and while some airlines have bent over backwards to accommodate them, others realize that these measures will not save them but cost them money.
Also be aware that if you have no flown and are unsure of the size requirements, many airlines have discrete test seats where you can check you seat/comfort rating. This will ensure your comfort as well as keep you from the embarrassment you may feel when asked to debark the plane for a few minutes and pay for an additional seat. Also, this may cause you to miss you flight if the plane is oversold.
:pipes:
D

[Disneymom1995]

OK - so I need extra room - what if I am sitting in a row three across the plane with my husband and daughter and they do not mind lifting the arm rests to give additional space - should I still have to pay for an additional seat?
Does United actually provide the passenger with the additional seat or do they just charge more? Won't be flying United in the future or any other airline that charges extra.
My biggest problem is that this will not be handled with any tact - just the usual nasty superior attitude.

[BrerGnat]

Totally justified.

This in no way is discriminatory against overweight people either. The rules are very concrete. A very large bodybuilder-type could just as easily be asked to purchase an additional seat. It's about a person's WIDTH, not weight.

This rule is put in place for EVERYONE'S comfort and safety. It should be mandatory on EVERY airline, not just the ones who aren't afraid...

But, this is why I fly Southwest. At least, this way, I have SOME control over where I sit and who I sit next to...

[Ed]

OK - so I need extra room - what if I am sitting in a row three across the plane with my husband and daughter and they do not mind lifting the arm rests to give additional space - should I still have to pay for an additional seat?
Does United actually provide the passenger with the additional seat or do they just charge more? Won't be flying United in the future or any other airline that charges extra.
My biggest problem is that this will not be handled with any tact - just the usual nasty superior attitude.

In a situation such as that, I would point out to the agent that your fellow passengers are relatives who do not mind 'sharing' the space; if the agent balks, firmly ask to speak to a supervisor or manager. If they've got ANY sense of customer service, they should waive the charge.

If they charge you for an extra seat, that seat space becomes yours for the flight.

[Granny Jill A]

Here is the policy straight from United's web site: Passengers requiring extra space
For the comfort and well-being of all customers aboard United flights, we have aligned with other major airlines' seating policies relating to passengers who:
are unable to fit into a single seat in the ticketed cabin;
are unable to properly buckle the seatbelt using a single seatbelt extender; and/or
are unable to put the seat's armrests down when seated.
If unused seats are available on the ticketed United or United Express flight, then a customer meeting any of the above criteria will be reaccommodated next to an empty seat.

If no unused seats are available on the ticketed flight, then the customer must either purchase an upgrade to a cabin with available seats that address the above-listed scenarios, or change his or her ticket to the next available flight and purchase a second seat in addition to the one already purchased. If a customer meeting any of the above-listed criteria cannot be accommodated next to an empty seat and chooses not to upgrade or change flights and purchase a ticket for an additional seat, he or she will not be permitted to board the flight.

This policy applies to tickets purchased on or after March 4, 2009, for travel on or after April 15, 2009.

Please understand that we care a great deal about all of our customers' well-being, and we have implemented this policy to help ensure that everyone's travel experiences with United are comfortable and pleasant.

Fares
If an additional seat is purchased, the fare for that seat will be the same as the fare paid for the original seat, regardless of whether the additional ticket is purchased along with the original ticket or separately. This applies even if the additional ticket is purchased on the day of departure, when fares are normally higher.

Availability
If purchasing on the day of departure and an additional seat or upgraded seat is not available on the ticketed flight, then the customer will be required to rebook on the next United flight that has adequate seating available. Any fees that would normally be associated with this type of change will be waived in this circumstance. If adequate seating is not available and the customer decides not to travel, the ticket can be refunded without penalty, even if it is a nonrefundable ticket.

I agree that the matter should be treated with utmost discretion by the airline personnel. No one wants to be publicly humiliated.

[Ed]

For anyone who's interested, here's Southwest's policy. (http://www.southwest.com/travel_center/cos_qa.html)

SWA will refund the cost of the second seat if the flight ends up not being fully booked, and in some cases the cost for the extra seat is the same as a child's fare.

I'd recommend the policy for each airline be researched fully before booking your reservation. Policies vary greatly among the various airlines.

[DizneyRox]

Seems fair enough. With the limited space on planes as it is, I don't wants to give up any more room than I have to. And of course, if two seats are purchased, both seats are available to that person.

[thrillme]

The big requirement is that they can put the arm rest down. Many pooh sized people can do this.

I'm not thin myself but I can do this and so can my pooh-sized hubby (but we like the armrest up so we can cuddle a bit :D). HOWEVER on the other side of the fence I did have to sit next to a gentleman of very very big size to where he could not fit in the seat eat all when the arm rest was down. I was dumbfounded when he pulled the arm rest up and sat down without even asking.

I admit I SHOULD have said something but I was just so shocked as he took up a good chunk of MY seat. He got up a couple of times when he did...I'd put the arm down hoping he'd get the hint...he didn't. Alas...it was a short flight...I just tolerated it because I figured he got enough hassles in life. The flight was FULL and no place to move. This fella was just rather rude.

But I know I'd be annoyed about having to buy a second seat. It would be so much better if airlines could make them just a "little" bigger...but then we usually fly Southwest and those seats seem pretty big to fit a quite a varity of people.

[Magic Smiles]

I was under the impression that this 2 seat policy was in effect for many of the airlines. I personnally agree with the policy. Just like charging for luggage. The more you take the more you pay. It is my choice to take 2 bags, so why not pay for it. I am however flying this summer on an airline that still doesn't charge for the luggage, but on our last trip with Northwest, we did pay.

[NotaGeek]

I am over-weight, but I am pretty realistic when it comes to traveling. I fly regularly, but I can put down the arm rest, I don't use a seat extender, but honestly, if I didn't fit in 1 seat I wouldn't expect my neighbor to squish against me (or WANT them to, really. Ugh). I also know which planes are smaller (CR-Js for instance, tiny seats on those Canadian Jets) and try to choose my planes wisely.

For some reason the term "pooh size" just sits badly with me, let's not romanticize the problem ... being obese and taking up 2 seats should require payment of 2 seats, as that's the least of the person's problem. I don't think the airline should be expected to shoulder the responsibility for a person's body size fitting into a seat. They have $$ to make and the seats will never get bigger to allow for more room in coach without the fares going up as well.

[Ed]

It would be so much better if airlines could make them just a "little" bigger...

It sounds like it would be relatively simple to make the seats a "little" bigger, until you consider this:

Using just Southwest as an example, they fly 536 planes, each one seating about 135 people. That's 72,360 seats to replace! And, if they make the seats wider, that makes the already-narrow center aisle even narrower, creating a whole new problem! :eek:

No simple solutions, unfortunately.

[DizneyRox]

Unless they went to 2x2 seating, in which case they lose what? 50 seats per plane and all the revenue from those seats... In which case they raise the prices for everyone.

I'd rather those that take two seats just pay for two seats. It's an easy fix.

[DisneyPrincess21]

"For the comfort and well-being of all customers aboard United Airlines..." If you "are unable to fit into a single seat in the ticketed cabin; are unable to properly buckle the seatbelt using a single seatbelt extender; and/or are unable to put the seat's armrests down when seated," then you may be subject to extra charges or required to re-book your trip.

I am no skinny-minnie and have always struggled with the old poundage issue, so I am very sympathetic to all who have similar issues. But I am of the opinion that if I purchase one seat, then I am entitled to sit in that seat - all of it.

Is the airline justified in making this rule?

Keep it nice, please. Thank you. :D

My grandmother the other day was just telling me about a guy on an airline that was forced to buy an extra seat because he was "too pooh sized" but the only problem in the airline justifying that it is for comfort of everyone involved to give him more room, Because the extra seat was in a different area of the plane. So how exactly did they plan on backpediling out of the one?:confused:

[MNNHFLTX]

Jill, I agree that plus-sized passengers are entitled to occupy the seat that they paid for. But looking at it from the airline's perspective, if that passenger is also occupying a significant portion of the adjacent seat as well, they can't expect the passenger who paid for that adjacent seat to only have the use of half of it. Therefore, that seat has to go unsold, resulting in lost revenue for the airline.

In the past, that was not usually a big deal because most flights were only 70-80% sold (some flights much less) because the airlines used to run a lot more flights to the same destinations every day. Fuel was cheaper and big, spacious airplanes were the norm. But in the last few years, almost every airline has cut back on their daily departures to the same destinations, using the logic that it makes a whole lot more financial sense to fly one full plane than to fly two half-empty ones. Many airlines are also using smaller aircraft in keeping with the realities of their passenger loads. Every empty seat counts (in a negative way) when it comes to the bottom line.That is exactly my understanding of the current situation with United (and some other airlines) and I have to say that it makes sense from a business point-of-view. It's just an unfortunate fact of life right that the weight of the average American keeps increasing while the size of airline seats keeps decreasing.

Ironically, I usually have more problems on planes with "regular" sized people (most typically men) that like to expand into my space. So often I have to sit with my arms hunched together in my lap while they monopolize the armrests and leg room. But that's another story. :D

[Tinkerfreak]

My grandmother the other day was just telling me about a guy on an airline that was forced to buy an extra seat because he was "too pooh sized" but the only problem in the airline justifying that it is for comfort of everyone involved to give him more room, Because the extra seat was in a different area of the plane. So how exactly did they plan on backpediling out of the one?:confused:

If they are charging you for 2 seats because they feel you need the extra room then the seats should have to be together.

[NotaGeek]

If they are charging you for 2 seats because they feel you need the extra room then the seats should have to be together.
Something smells fishy about that ... I hardly think that could be the case, looks like some Googling is on order!

[Ian]

Unless they went to 2x2 seating, in which case they lose what? 50 seats per plane and all the revenue from those seats... In which case they raise the prices for everyone.

I'd rather those that take two seats just pay for two seats. It's an easy fix.Right ... you should pay for what you use, not what others use.

[DisneyPrincess21]

If they are charging you for 2 seats because they feel you need the extra room then the seats should have to be together.


Something smells fishy about that ... I hardly think that could be the case, looks like some Googling is on order!

As ridiculous as it sounds, it's true. They tried to charge him for two seats and the other seat was in a different part of the plane.

[NotaGeek]

I found info about this, and it was a woman that weighs over 350 lbs -- the airline was Jetstar, an Australia domestic carrier.


Tuesday, February 3, 2009
The Cairns Post

A Cairns woman says there is fat chance she'll fly with Jetstar again after she claims she was discriminated against for being overweight.

Samantha Scafe (pictured) , an IT expert who weighs 160kg, said she was forced to pay for a second seat for herself "for other people’s comfort" when she flies from Cairns to Coolangatta today.

After making the initial booking on January 15, she claims she was then told twice on January 18 by Jetstar not to worry about paying for a second fare because "we can get around the policy of charging a big person for two seats".

"I was told by Jetstar to phone the night before my flight to book excess luggage and not to worry about paying for the second seat," Ms Scafe told The Cairns Post yesterday.

"Then on Saturday, they advised me to book and pay for a second seat for other people’s comfort because of my size … and, would you believe, they then made a further mistake which I later noticed on the web by splitting up my seats so they weren’t next to each other."

Jetstar late yesterday apologised to Ms Scafe but said it was not policy to provide overweight customers with a two-for-the-price-of-one deal.

Ms Scafe said she had cited in discussions with Jetstar a Canadian court ruling last November that overweight people could have two seats for the price of one.

She said she had filed a complaint with Anti-Discrimination Commission Queensland.

[Pagan]

Have to agree with the airlines. I flew from NY to Cali last year with a rather large gentleman next to me. Longest 5 hours of my life.

He fell asleep and what little control he had over spilling into my seat disappeared.

Call me strange, but if I don't know you I don't want you touching me or leaning on me for 5 hours.