Got a question for y'all...

[tyandskyesmom]

I am on by-law committee for Tyler's football league. We had a suggestion of an addition to the by-laws to read...

"No anonymous complaints will be entertained."

Meaning...do not send a letter to the board without signing your name. Now, the two people on the committee with me that were in favor of this are on the board and there were some issues last season with parental complaints to the board without being signed.

Now, I have been on the side of logging a complaint with them (four years ago) where I did not feel comfortable signing my name. It was clear who I was though as I sent it via e-mail and made references to Tyler and such. After that, lots of chain of command type rules were put into the by-laws (because it was a huge deal and I got accomplilshed what I wanted to and woudl do it again if necessary) that are not really followed. And since then, I have some people who still do not like me because of that but my husband and I now are very involved in the organization (my husband is on the board).

Unfortunately, as with a lot of organizations, the parents who usually show up to board meetings (who are who get to vote in by-laws) and generally the same few and a lot of those are related to board members or eachother or are buddies and that means they vote they way someobne else wants them to.

I came out against this. My fear though is that it will get voted in because most of the people who will probably show up will be friends or relatives of one of the guys who was for the addition. The reason I have a problem is that I think in a non-for-profit, community organization you are weeding out a good chunk of people. I think in an organization of close to 300 kids (so an additional maybe 600 parents), the people...ie. parents of all the kids, should have a voice and should be able to bring something to the board's attention any way they feel comfortable and without fear of retributition. In a perfect world, we would not have to worry about that but in the real world, we know it happens. Even now, there might be reason that I, even being who I am within this organization, that I would not feel comfortable giving my name.

I see their argument. They say that if it is important enough to bring to the board then the board should be able to contact that person for questions and answers and further info if needed. But I think that if someone sends a letter without a signature, it is probably something that they do not expect to be direclty responded to. Maybe just a head-up kind of a thing so that maybe someone other than that person will keep an eye out for that issue happening for a little while and see if the see it the same way. I fear that by making it manditory to sign your name they will be eliminating a bunch of parental opinion from people who could make a difference. I mean let's face it, not everyone is comfortable in that kind of situation. Maybe it is a friend of yours or someone you work closely with that is the offender and you don't want it to get back to that person that you were the one who pointed it out. And let's face it, no matter how well meaning the board may be, someone will let it slip who submitted the complaint (I have always been able to find out anything I have wanted to know and hit has not been through my husband). And no matter how well meaning, coaches (which is who most of these complaints come up against) are human and they may not mean to take it out on the kids but I think a lot of times it does happen. And also, it was brought up that they had some really crabby bogus complaints about one coach last year that they should not have entertained. So if they had known whose complaint it was they might have known that. But, why is that the judge of the validity of the complaint? Me giving you my name allows you to place validity upon that complaint based upon your feelings towards me or my reputation or my relationship with that coach. Yes, it may be bogus and I may be just trying to start trouble but by the board investigaing by observation, they would be able to prove or disprove my story. And isn't that in the best interest of the children. I mean even if you are my best friend on the whole world but you are doing something I think is deteimental to the kids, shouldn't I be able to broach the subject with someone else without having to give my name and possibly/probably ruin a frinedship?

So interest of keeping this a community organization and not a dictatorship (by the board) and in keeping with the best interest of the kids, I think it is wrong to take away that freedom. I think we might miss some important issues if this is allowed to be voted in.

I don't know why, but I am really having a hard time with even letting this go to vote.

It is kind of like voting...it is your opinion and you are not to be judged by how you voted. It is your right to tell or not to tell...and I think we parents deserve that same right when it comes to our children.

What do you guys think...am I completely off base with this one???

[Stitchahula]

I think you have a point. There are times when the coach "takes it out on the kid" because the parent complained. I think that if it was a really big thing of course the parent would sign his or her name but you never know they might be shy. I think that just because you're not comfortable signing your name you should be ignored. Good luck

[gwfx1031]

I do understand the fear of retaliation. The concern I have is that someone may hold back something very important dealing with a child and the league's well being because they did not want to have to put their name down just as you do. It should be optional, IMHO.

[SBETigg]

Sherry, I understand your concern and would normally agree with you. But in this case, from what you say, it seems fairly pointless to send an anonymous statement because someone will know who you are anyway. I do think that people are more comfortable speaking if they don't have to sign. On the other hand, people are then also more likely to lodge frivolous complaints. It's a tough call.

But considering the fact that you added everyone knew who you were even though your complaint was anonymous, and you find out who people are anyway, it seems better to just concede to those who want people to identify themselves. It seems like you may be clinging to a point that is rather pointless if there is no such thing as true anonymity. But considering if there was actual anonymity, I do think the board has a point. People can be nasty and vengeful, and it's just as likely that someone makes up a complaint just to hurt someone else or get someone else taken out of the game or in trouble. Things happen. And yes, the validity of the complaint is then left in the hands of the board. But if someone was complaining about you or your child, wouldn't you rather know who it was so that you could take appropriate action or at least make sure this was an actual complaint and not just some anonymous nastiness? I think allowing for anonymity actually opens a whole load of problems rather than just keeping the lines of communication open for people too afraid to voice a concern. If you have a concern, I think you should be willing to stand behind it with your name revealed and deal with what comes your way (which is hopefully a positive outcome and not spiteful retribution).

[kakn7294]

I do see both sides of it and tend to agree that if it's mandatory to sign your name then some parents may not offer up their complaints. However, it would be helpful to have contact info for being able to get further information if needed. Perhaps you could designate one trustworthy person who would be able keep info for the complaints anonymous if requested and could act as a go-between for the board and the complaining parent.

[stitchaholic]

i am the vp of our soccer league,we have close to 1700 kids playing in our league and around 300 volunteers,we are a board of 9 people.
and although we have had our share of arguments and disagreements,we all have 1 common goal,the well being of the kids and improvement of our club.
i truly beleive that if you are sitting on the board,that you need to be able to speak your mind freely,as you are there to better the club.
we have had many discussions on coaches,and the way we have solved it is to draw up a coaching contract with rules of conduct and have our coaches sign it,that way,if it is in the by-law,there is no discussion. unfortunatly,we have had to ask cetain people to step down from their coaching responsabilities as they refused to respect the rules,how unfortunate this is when it is supposed to be about the children learning the game and respect,and not be pressured by the competition.
good luck to you,please speak your mind freely!

[VWL Mom]

I just stepped down as president of our local little league. I had served for 9 years in various positions so I know about valid vs. invalid complaints.

I think there is a need for the party to sign their name otherwise you will get some ridiculous complains and time will be wasted. Parents with justified complaints will still step forward. Also, if it's anonymous there is no way to investigate the claim.

A committee can be formed within the board that takes complaints. It can be comprised of the president, player agent, coach, and referee (if they are volunteers). All complaints are addressed to the and they decide if they are valid and should be brought before the board.

The board is meant to control the masses. They are responsible for 300 kids not just their 1. Some people liked me and would say what a good job I was doing and others would hate me , I survived it all. My responsibility was the kids - not the parents.

Good luck, hang in there!

[wdwfansince75]

Not to trivialize your point.....Serving on a board is the easiest job in the world....Just ask anyone who has never done it! Instead of Football League....substitute:
Neighbor Association
Little League
Band Boosters
Church Council
Cub/Boy Scouts
Girl Scouts....

Issue of complaints, anonymous or signed, real or imagined, comes up again and again.....

Particularly in the days of email, im's, and blogs, there are lots of ways to complain...and it is hard to seperate the real issues from personal tastes.....And there are real issues...But from my own experiences, on both sides of the table, boards of all kinds tend to ignore anonymous complaints......anonymous complaints rarely solve problems....rather, they can become the problem. If you feel there are systemic problems, perpetuated by rotating board members, consider suggesting an ombudsman....research it, get additional parents to support the approach, and be prepared to suggest someone for the position.....and keep it in the community. Boards and communities, ect, that solve real problems become stronger.

No man is an island (gee...what a great title for a literary piece).....Most organizations are governed by other organizations...If the problem or local conditions dictate, check whether the governing body has conflict resolution proceedures....but be prepared to do the work! As president of our church, I used this approach, and suddenly discovered I had a second full time (plus) job....but we solved a problem that had been present for some time.

Oh, and about those coaches who have favorites, or who punish the kids of the complainers....DS#1 loved baseball, but hated the organization, and decided to try soccer instead....played it through youth, high school, college, and an occasional adult league....and never regretted his (not my) choice.

[brownie]

I think you need to look into all complaints and issues that are brought up, however the procedure you follow should be different for something that is submitted anonymously.

[MickeyMousse]

I feel that all complaints, anonymous or not, should be taken into consideration. I think that some people view the anonymous ones as either the squeeky wheel or maybe that person just has a personal problem with a specific person/etc..... and yes, sometimes that is true but overall you need to pay attention to these as much as the ones that are signed.

I was on the board of my DS's school PTA and there were many anonymous complaints (suggestions too) that were of value-reason why they didn't sign their names was fear of retaliation. Lets face it, people can get really nasty and ugly!

[SBETigg]

I was on the board of my DS's school PTA and there were many anonymous complaints (suggestions too) that were of value-reason why they didn't sign their names was fear of retaliation. Lets face it, people can get really nasty and ugly!

But that was my point as well. Anonymous commenters can be ugly and nasty, too, maybe moreso because they have the freedom of anonymity and not being held accountable for their statements. It courts trouble as well as it allows for the timid to have a voice.

If the fear of retaliation over a comment is that bad, I would also be questioning my and my child's involvement in the group.

[tyandskyesmom]

Thank you all for your opinions...I appreciate it! It sounds like in general, most people disagree with me except for probably other parents like me.

I just think that people on a board often times do not realize that it is not easy for a lot of people to approach people in a position of knowledge (or power as some see it!). I come from a place where I am shy and it takes me a while to openly talk to people in general but out me in a new place or situation, or is a difficult one (which I would assume it is if you are taking the situation to a board level) and it can be a mess. I do not do well talkingin public...even in a group of my friends...my eyes start watering and my voice starts cracking as if I am crying. It is just how I am...but give me a letter to write and I'm good. I think that there are a lot of people who have some version of that "stage fright" and to suggest something is wrong or even just to suggest a maybe better or different way to do something is exactly that...and often times, even the most well meaning parent offering up suggestions is taken as a dig at someone else. It has unfortunately become human nature these days to attack first and ask questions later. I just think in a community organization the Board is there to guide and make financial and league decisions but they should be driven by the community...not their own adgendas. And I am afraid that by elimination the ability to suggest or complain or bring something to someone elses attention but everyone...not just the people comfortable in that situation...we could be, no WILL BE losing some valuable input.

And I am not saying that all anonymous letter should be entertained any more than signed ones should...if a complaint is not presented in a constructive way, then THAT should be the reason it is not taken into consideration...not because it was not signed. And just because something is presented as a complaint, does not mean it is not offering up some valuable info even if the complaint is not found true. Maybe, something that was never even thought about will now be.

For example, because of my complaint 4 years ago...which was a 3 or 4 page e-mail that was written in my son's second year of football when there were almost 40 kids on his team alone and only maybe 15 of them ever got to do anything EVEN AT PRACTICE...yes, they were sitting on the grass, about 25 six and seven year old boys, left to sit and watch PRACTICE for most of two hours...there is now a chain of command. When I sent this e-mail, we were second year parents. We were not very involved yet. We would spend two hours a day out watching our child and many others sit in the grass and get in trouble for screwing around...they are 6 and 7 year old boys for god's sake! Lou and a couple of other dad's offered to help out during practices and at least run drills with the left overs. Nope, did not want it. All the parents of the leftovers were complaining everyday and I was the only one who actually did anything about it. Tyler has had the same head coach/director of football (on the board)/assistant coach/equipment manager (on the board) team (who are also cousins) for two years...and had had some version of them every year since and probably always will. It really took a lot of me, being who I am, to write that letter. A real lot. After the letter was e-mailed to the president (who is still the president) it was given to the coaches. In addition to the issue above I also mentioned that one of them was pretty cold to the kids too...which when you are 6 and 7 is a huge deal! At the next practice an informal parent meeting was called ina circle while the kids warmed up where the two coaches acknowledged the letter and provided some explanation...and some info as to how/what they were planning to do to correct the problem. In that meeting I let it be known that it was me (the coaches knew but they had not told the parents yet) because the starter kid's parents were then attacking the leftover kid's parents because their kids were just better and it was about winning. "Why would the best players not play?" It caused a big issue between parents...and I was not saying they should not but this was practice and how were the kids going to learn to be good if they did not even get to proctice (and actually Super Pee Wees is not about winning it is not even sanctioned it is supposed to be a learning level). So out of that, they really did do better. Everyone practices. And there is a noticable attempt to get everyone at least the minimal playing time. And the chain of command was written into the by-laws. Which is first to your coach, then to the Director of football, and then on up...but what about my case where my coach is the director of football? And if I am complaining about him to him and he does not fix it and he knows it is me, will my kid not suffer for it? He's a great guy but everyone is human. And for me, I think this is not a problme because I am now the big mouth mom. The one that caused "the issue" as it is known in polite conversation. There are still parents that won't give me the time of day because of this...and I was never saying that their kids should not play.

Since all of this we're all ok. Me and the coaches are not best buds but we're ok...I even think in a drunken state one night I was hugged by one of them! ;) But is it still around me...following me everywhere. And these are people that I will have associations with for at least the next 6 years that Tyler plays with them. And one of the coaches is not going to be Tyler's baseball coach because we left our neighborhood run baseball league because of a horribly run league and board.

And unfortunately, while this is not what I came here for (I really just wanted people's opinions so I could judge if I was just simply making too much out of this because I have been on the other side of things) it is responses like the one from wdwfansince75 that really burn my britches. These kinds of responses..."Serving on a board is the easiest job in the world....Just ask anyone who has never done it!" are so condecending and unnecessary and unfortunately why people are afraid to approach anything. NO ONE SAID ANYTHING ABOUT BEING ON A BOARD BEING EASY! Never. But if you accept the position, you shoudl be accepting it to do the best job you can...for no other reason than that...if you are not doing it for that reason then DON'T DO IT! No one said, 'hey, join this board, it'll be a piece of cake." If they did, they were lying. And just to clarify, my husband and I are very involved. He has been a Den Leader for Boy Scouts, on the Borad of the horrible Baseball league (because he was told if he did not like what was going on or if he wanted more info then he should join the board and do something about it) for one year, had coached or managed Tyler's baseball team for the last 5 years,has been an assistant coach for Tyler's football team for going on three years now (with the coaches we complained aboutand has been asked to be an assistant coach ), has been the co-field maintenance manager on the board for football, and he has been on various committees for football. I have been a room mom every year of Tyler's life, participate in PTA, helped manage Tyler's baseball team, run the homecoming committee last year, and have been behind the scenes with Lou in everything else. I ran for VP this past year...and lost. We spend every game day at the field (all of us...even Skye and she could not cheer until this coming year) in the sun, rain, heat, and cold (we even had hail last year and Tyler was already done playing by then so we could have just gone home but didn't)from 8am until after the last game is done and everything is cleaned up at around 7 or 8pm working to help. Last year I practically ran the Parent Participation Committee because we had a board member resign her position. And not only is being on a board of something difficult, but it also is difficult on the families. We have had to re-arrange or lives at times for lou to be able to do something for one of his boards...a lot of times latst minute. My kids don't get to bum around with their dad on football day...cause he is working! So the kids and I also give in order for him to sit on that board. So maybe it is the people on a board that get too defensive and cannot appreciate that the parents in an organization do everyday also. I don't think there is a parent around that has any sense who would say sitting on a board is easy...and certainly, I never said that!! So, since I have heard that statement before by some ill-intentioned board members, it apparently is popular belief that parents do not have a clue. You know what? A lot of us do. A lot of us...even those of us who are extremely shy, would love a board position. And not so we could eat cake either...but so that we could work hard to bring about the best organization that we can. I am not saying there are not people who complain just to complain but more often than not, I think almost every concern, from the littlest to the biggest, should be entertained.

Anyway, thank you all for your opinions and I may just ley it ride and not contest the addition into the by-laws. I am going to offer my two sense whether anyone wants it or not so i guess it does not directly affect me anyway...see as a parent, I am still just tryiong to creat the best organization we can be.

BTW, keep it coming if anyone else has an opinion about it...I appreciate it!

[wdwfansince75]

After I made you mad, did you read the rest of my post? I tried to offer approaches that have worked for me in the past.....Was involved in a local, non-little league affiliated baseball league in MD that was (informally) whites only....was part of the solution.....Inherited an ethics problem when I became president of our church council....resolved a problem that had been whispered about for at least 10 years.....

I don't always take sufficient care when choosing my words....sorry if I offended you....I said practically the same things to DD#2 when she had problems with the way a little league coach treated her son.....she forgave me, eventually.

[tyandskyesmom]

I forgave you and did read the rest. And your suggestions are welcomed. It is just that statment makes me nutz! And I think that a lot of times board members throw that around without really thinking about it.

We do not have major issues in general but in trying to review by-laws (which is done every year by the committee I have sat on for the second year in a row) and make some suggestions as to improve them to be voted on by the whole organization (if they feel like taking the time to come to the next two meetings) this issue came up. They did have one cheer coach that parents just loved to pick on. Mostly a personality clash but some real issues of when a coach is within her right to do something (in which cases she was and that should have been the end of it but wasn't) that the parents did not like. This is what I think sparked this suggestion because the board was just tired of hearing these complaints. But instead of them standing behing their coach they appeased the parent and slapped the coach on the hand. This was for things like being in complete uniform for a 5 minute half time routine (ie. take off the pink jacket or pants that might mke a flyer more difficult to catch) or if their kid was allowed to call a cheer that day....things like that.

I think I am just going to chalk this one up to that I am overly sensitive to this issue being how I am...and who I am...and let it ride. If the organization votes it in...fine. If not, even finer...after all no body likes to be wrong!

Thanx for your ideas.

[kakn7294]

You know Sherry, I have a story from work last night that illustrates your point quite well. A co-worker's son is being singled out by his teacher in class. This teacher constantly belittles and yells at the boy, calling him names and such, in front of the class. He's told the boy to "go ahead and tell your mother - she can't bail you out of this one". He's also failing a boy who has had no lower than a B in any other classes in his entire school career - he's in 6th grade. The boy does not want his parents to talk to the teacher for fear of further retaliation from the teacher. The mom is torn about what to do and I think this is what you fear will happen with parents in your league - they won't speak up for fear of retaliation from board members, coaches, and other parents if they can't remain anonymous. I think if you feel so strongly about it, you should make a list of all of your concerns and present it at your next meeting. They may vote in anyway, but at least you will have had your say.

BTW, the boy's mom has decided to request a meeting with the teacher and principal together and plans to arm herself with evidence of what's been happening. She's going to take his past report cards, other teachers' comments about her son, and his papers from this teacher's class. Sorry for stealing your thread!!!