Wheel chairs/ECVs and busses

[GrumpyFan]

I would like to preface this by saying, I have no animosity or ill will to those in wheel chairs and/or ECVs. I'm just curious how it would work or be perceived if Disney offered separate bus/queue that was just for wheel chairs, ECVs and those needing special assistance. I'm not trying to be prejudiced or anything, I'm just thinking that it might be a way to better deal with those needing special assistance. I'll be honest too, it would also make the bus lines for those not needing special assistance smoother. But, it could potentially make things smoother for the guests with special assistance too.

Here's my thought. They could have at each park and resort, a separate queue line just for special assistance guests. Then they could have a bus that would be specially set up just to handle these. The busses would have only a few seats, so the guests in the wheel chair/ECV would only be allowed to bring 1 person with them on this bus. But, because they are special busses, they would be able to carry a larger number of guests needing special assistance. The rest of the people in the party would have to get on a regular bus. The busses would be dispatched electronically, and have a driver as well as attendant to help with loading. To make it efficient, the busses might also have to make multiple stops before getting to a final destination.

Again, I'm not trying to be prejudiced or offend anyone, I'm just wondering out loud if something like this would work, and whether or not it would help things with bus transportation or just cause more issues.

[biodtl]

I think is one of those in theory/in practice things. In theory, it could be OK, but I think that in practice, it would be a nightmare - you would have buses coming to one and not the other and people in the line without a bus mad because they couldn't get on the bus that came. And there would always be exceptions - what if you had a parent in a wheelchair/ecv with more than one child? They certainly couldn't abide by the 1 guest rule.
Plus, it would cost a lot more money run, requiring more employees, more buses and more gas. Not to mention the space for separate stops.

[Sunshine1010]

I'm trying to figure out what kind of bus would be able to handle a bunch of wheelchairs.

[Marilyn Michetti]

They do have a special line for ECV's and WC's. The bus can accomodate 2 or three, and the rest wait for the next bus. The reason it takes extra time is because the driver is required, by law, to load handicapped passengers first, and it takes a few moments to tie down the chair. It's not a perfect system. Think of the flip side. Say the bus comes and there are four ECV's waiting, and only 20 passengers. Even though the bus isn't full, two HC riders have to wait for the next one. We hate it too!:(

[cal5755]

I would like to preface this by saying, I have no animosity or ill will to those in wheel chairs and/or ECVs. I'm just curious how it would work or be perceived if Disney offered separate bus/queue that was just for wheel chairs, ECVs and those needing special assistance. I'm not trying to be prejudiced or anything, I'm just thinking that it might be a way to better deal with those needing special assistance. I'll be honest too, it would also make the bus lines for those not needing special assistance smoother. But, it could potentially make things smoother for the guests with special assistance too.



Honestly the only thing that would be smoother for those in wheelchairs is that they would not be subject to the rude guests who make comments. They still would have to be strapped in and all that would still take time, actually it would be more time to have to wait for several to be strapped in.

If you are asking how it would be perceived...I will tell you I would be offended if Disney said we had to separate Aunt Apple from her family because she is in a wheelchair.

I have been 10 times to WDW and have never found it inconvenient letting w/c people on the bus first. Getting on and off the bus is not smoother when there is no w/c... I still step up the step and find a seat or stand... It just means standing outside the bus for 4 or 5 minutes while the wheelchair is loaded.

What bothers me the most about ideas like this... you have no idea what could have put each person in the wheelchair. With Aunt Apple it is obvious.. she is 96 years old... but how about those with cancer and other diseases...or a generally healthy looking young man... How do you know he didn't end up in that chair fighting a war for his country. Or a young woman confined because she covered her children during a storm .... How dare we ask them to take a separate bus because they now have special needs and the line will be smoother for those of us who are ambulatory. Again I am saying that because there would be no real benefit to those in w/c.... well except maybe they wouldn't have to deal with nasty guests that find it inconvenient to wait for them.

I know you said you didnt mean to offend but I do feel strongly about this subject.

[ibelieveindisneymagic]

We went to Disney this last year with my Mom who needed an ECV due to her knee surgery. The hardest part of the trip was most definately the busses, especially the rude comments we kept getting from other guests. We tried as hard as we could to be fair, not to jump on a bus just because we could, but it was still hard.

Although the idea is interesting, there is no way that Disney could separate families by making the person in an ECV/wheelchair go on a separate bus. In our case, there would have been one of us and Mom on one bus, and DD and the other of us on another bus, just too crazy.

Having been on both sides of the coin, both with and without someone needing assistance, I think that Disney does a pretty good job of getting everyone around where they need to go.

[DawsonAR]

It would be a terrible thought that my family would have to seperate due to my DD (9) having a disability and requiring a wheelchair. Her hero is her brother who is 7. The thought of making the seperate is unbearable. People with disabilities should be treated just like everyone else and have access to everything everyone else enjoys.
I understand wheelchairs and EVC's can slow down the buses, but it is only a few minutes out of someones day.
Please forgive any anger in my response, but I'm very protective of people with disabilities and I feel they should be treated just like anyone else.

[Hayden's Dad]

Gotta agree with most everyone on this thread. My son is 2 and a half and in a wheelchair, so only either me or my wife could ride with him and with the "regular" lines there is no telling when the other one would get to either the hotel or the parks, what if he had an emergency, which has happened while we were on a bus, that required both of us.

It's threads like this that I learned on our last trip that it is so much nicer and less stressful to just drive, that way you aren't inconvienenced by us taking a few extra minutes to make sure my son is safe on the bus and we won't be inconvienenced by your dirty looks and rude comments. Plus now we don't have to argue with any bus driver's that my son is actually in a wheelchair.

[GrumpyFan]

I should probably just be quiet and not cause any more controversy, but, something in me just can't. So, feel free to flame or bust my chops.

I understand the whole separation argument, and that might could be remedied by having more seats on the "special assistance" bus so the family wouldn't have to take a separate bus.

I also understand the point about treating people with special needs the same and giving them the same access everyone else has. However, I think you're missing the point. The point is that people with special needs, have "extra" requirements (if you will) outside of the normal guest. After all, they are already treated differently because they have a special entrance on the "normal" buses and they enter first. So, they're not exactly treated the same.

The whole idea is about making it quicker, easier and safer for everybody. A specially designed bus that has a driver and operator/assistant could more quickly and easily load passengers with special needs. And, since the bus was designed with the sole intent of handling these guests, it would inherently be safer and easier on the guest than a regular bus.

Also, and this isn't an excuse, but I know that many school systems have a few special assitance buses, mostly because they can't afford to outfit every bus with lifts. So, proposing that Disney do the same thing, isn't really all that different.

I think that Disney does an absolute fantastic job at trying their best to accommodate all guests. And, I really don't mind waiting for a wheelchair/ECV to load before I do. However, I've seen some times where it wasn't handled very well by the bus driver as well as those needing assistance. Good example, we were waiting for a bus once, and had been for a while, there was one person needing assistance, so the driver loaded them first, but then two others came up needing assistance at the last minute and he went ahead and loaded them too, well ahead of all the people who had been waiting in line. I've seen the opposite played out too, where the ones needing special assistance, were demanding that they be treated special and were ugly to the driver for making them wait for the next bus. I'm sorry, but just because you're in a wheel chair shouldn't give you the right to jump ahead of everyone else who has been waiting.

As for the rude guests, hopefully I'm not one. I always try and go out of my way to help those needing special assistance. However, I think part of this attitude that some guests express, may be due to the people who are using ECVs and have the aforementioned attitude of expecting special treatment. Everybody pays the same when going to Disney, and everybody expects to be treated the same and that means waiting the same amount of time.

I'm going to duck and run for cover now, so feel free to start the attacks.

[DawsonAR]

I would never attack you. I hope you didn't take my other post as an attack. It is only my point of view as a parent of a special needs child.

I respect your view and can also see your side. Prior to having a special needs child, I would have completely agreed with you. I don't totally disagree with you now.

Voiceing my view on this with Disney really comes from other areas of society. (such as a classroom in the very back cornor of the school, special buses, seperate lunch times etc) Disney does an excellent job of accomodating special needs.

I truly respect your view and don't want you to think I was attacking your point, just pointing out the other side too.

Now, I will run for cover too.

[ElenitaB]

Since 2001 I've had very few visits that I haven't needed an ECV during my visits to WDW. Since last year, here at home, I have access to an assisted-transportation service. So I've had the opportunity to experience both Disney's "inclusive" approach to transportation and the municipal service which is limited to the person with the disability and up to two guests. The municipal service (called Access-A-Ride) has vans that can accomodate two wheelchairs or ECVs and has seating for five passengers. I generally use the service for an average of three round-trips a month.

Do I think it would work for WDW? To be perfectly honest, I'm not sure. One of the sticking points could be revolve around party size. (As a single mom, I'd sure hate to be separated from my children if I had more than one or two.)

Prior to needing an accomodation (and no, I do not see this in terms of entitlement but as enabling me to continue to visit WDW), I had no problem with waiting for those using wheelchairs or ECVs to load. Now that I'm the person seated in an ECV, I can tell you that it is often not pleasant. I've seen the dirty looks and heard the hurtful comments (unfortunately, so has my son). When going back alone to the resort to rest, I've been left behind by drivers.

The system in place is not perfect. However, no system ever is 100%. I'm sure this issue is revisited on a regular basis by the powers that be.

I also wanted to thank everyone for the very civil discussion being held about what is often a very inflammatory topic! :thumbsup:

[Hayden's Dad]

I apologize if I seemed to attack earlier that was not my intention, but you have to understand those of us with children with special needs who are already excluded from so much because of their limitations we tend to get very defensive when you suggest something along the same lines.

I usued to think the bus system was pretty good and until this last trip when we had a handicapped accesible van and we drove everywhere, and I have to say that is the way we will be doing it from now on. It just seems more convientent and easier for everyone.

I have had my share of arguments with bus driver's about whether my son is even in a wheelchair or not, and we have had to wait several times for a bus that didn't already have all the handicapped seats taken. So I think for now unless something changes we will be driving to and from or riding the monorail. It's just better in our opinion.

[ElenitaB]

For parents who are caregivers, driving might well be the best option. In our case, as an out-of-town parent who's the person with the disability and who rents equipment locally, it's just not a practical option. So I'm afraid our family is "stuck" with Disney transportation. Like I said earlier, it's not a perfect system, but it enables us to continue to visit our "happy place."

[mickeefan]

We rent 2 ecv's so you can imagine the dirty looks, rude behavior and spiteful comments that creates. Personally, I dislike very much having to go through that loading process. Our solution has been that we avoid using the buses unless absolutely necessary. We are fortunate enough to stay at a monorail resort where we have never had a problem with using ECV's. In fact people have always been extremely considerate which is a complete opposite from the buses.
When we go to the studios we go to Epcot and then out through the international gateway and either take a friendship or the path to the studios. It does take considerably more time, however, it eliminates taking a bus. We rarely go to the Animal Kingdom.
If it wasn't for using them we would be unable to enjoy Disney at all unless we went to stay at the resort only.

[TheDuckRocks]

I also understand the point about treating people with special needs the same and giving them the same access everyone else has. However, I think you're missing the point. The point is that people with special needs, have "extra" requirements (if you will) outside of the normal guest. After all, they are already treated differently because they have a special entrance on the "normal" buses and they enter first. So, they're not exactly treated the same.


I think I would quite safe in saying that all of us that have to use a WC or ECV and those of you are caretakers for a person who uses a WC or ECV would dearly love to be "the same" or a "normal guest". As all is not fair in this world, I for one just feel blessed that there is a place such as Disney that I can go and they help me feel "normaler".

[Jenemmy]

I think I would quite safe in saying that all of us that have to use a WC or ECV and those of you are caretakers for a person who uses a WC or ECV would dearly love to be "the same" or a "normal guest". As all is not fair in this world, I for one just feel blessed that there is a place such as Disney that I can go and they help me feel "normaler".

Bingo! You know, I grew up with a sister who was unable to walk and now have a son who is physically fine, but disabled with autism. Never will I ever complain, moan or groan about someone with a disability getting on a bus, getting ahead of me in line or receiving some special treatment. People free from disabilities affecting them or loved ones just don't stop and think about how very un-magical the rest of life can be. No one with a disability chose that life -- they aren't out to scam the world at large and look for special treatment. But, hey if they get a chance for special treatment then that is OK by me! I guarantee that no one is as inconvenienced by a wheelchair as the person sitting in it!

As far as a special bus....I can see where the idea would have merits, but it sure would be difficult to synchronize. You would just have a bunch of people mad when a "special" bus pulled up for only the disabled.

[Marilyn Michetti]

I'm trying to picture your idea in practice. Suppose four people in ECV's are waiting, and the HC bus pulls up, loads the four, and say, two family members for each. There's a line of pedestrians waiting, but not allowed to ride on the bus even though it's mostly empty? I don't think anyone would be happy at that point.:confused:

[GrumpyFan]

I'm not saying this would be a perfect solution, I know it's far from it. However, I do think it would be a better and maybe even safer solution for those in wheel chairs/ecvs.

I think most pedestrians would be understanding and maybe even appreciative of the fact that they didn't have to wait for the bus to "kneel" and load those needing special assistance. It would mean more room is allowed on the bus for more passengers. And, for those in wheel chairs/ecvs, it might mean that nobody is standing with their rear-end pointing at their face.

Again, It's not a perfect solution, and from the sound of it, most people wouldn't appreciate the segregation aspect, so I don't really see any chance of it happening.

[sndral]

I must say that some of the bus drivers seemed to be much better at loading than others - I watched one have to reposition the bus 2x, actually kneel the bus, unkneel it, move it, then repeat to load just one wheelchair, meanwhile the bus behind waited as did everyone in line @ closing @ epcot. So I think there's a lot disney could do to speed things up with the one bus system.
That said, I also think a lot of the rudeness could be cured with knowledge. I believe people are much more compassionate and patient if they understand.
People riding the buses are staying on site - so why not a special on one of those disney never ending looping TV programs profiling a few special needs people enjoying WDW - something detailing their struggles and their courage, how much visiting disney means to them and their families.
Seems to me something along those lines would be as valuable as wdw timeshare infomationals.

[PETE FROM NYC]

DW has needed an ECV for her last 3 trips due to two knee replacements.She has her own.Last trip ,last year,I needed an ECV to due to my knees being shot.We had 6 of us ,so we rented a large van,and were able to load her scooter onto it w/o too much trouble.One day ,we went to the parks separately,with me taking the van,and her taking the bus later.At our resort,there were a few other ECVs waiting ahead of her,but,when she was allowed to board,there were no problems.
One problem that we did have is that there were people who were using the medical parking lot who I feel had no business there.I am talking about parents with large strollers that they did not want to fight with on the trams.I was walking with a cane at the time,and the extra walking from the far side of medical parking almost did me in a few times.My knees are getting progressively worse lately and I cannot walk much more than 100 yards without needing a rest,so next trip ,I will be forced to use the buses with the ECV that I will rent from an outside source.
Another somewhat related problem is that it costs about triple the price to rent a handicapped van than any other vehicle.

[Granny Jill A]

I'm trying to picture your idea in practice. Suppose four people in ECV's are waiting, and the HC bus pulls up, loads the four, and say, two family members for each. There's a line of pedestrians waiting, but not allowed to ride on the bus even though it's mostly empty? I don't think anyone would be happy at that point.:confused:

Once the special-needs passengers are on board, the logical thing to do is offer up the empty seats to the people standing in line.

[Granny Jill A]

I must say that some of the bus drivers seemed to be much better at loading than others - I watched one have to reposition the bus 2x, actually kneel the bus, unkneel it, move it, then repeat to load just one wheelchair, meanwhile the bus behind waited as did everyone in line @ closing @ epcot.

It's not just the bus drivers that need some practice loading and unloading. I watched one evening while someone in an ECV tried to back up the ramp into the bus. They went backwards, then forwards, then backwards, then forwards, then almost off the ramp itself. The driver tried to help by suggesting he turn this way or that.

We almost cheered when he finally got up the ramp and into the bus.

[LHodell]

As the parent of a child who uses a wc I am a little bit offended by the suggestion of a "separate" bus. Do you think that my son wouldn't love to be able to leap up the steps of a bus? Do you think ANYONE likes requiring wheels because they can't uses their legs effectively? I would guess not. My 6 year old would much rather be able to run jump and play like most other children his age then to get "special treatment" or a shorter line for the bus. Please, think about how you would feel if you or someone you love were the person requiring extra assistance and then tell me if you would want to be stuck on a bus with the rest of the people "like you". That is nothing short of discriminative. :soapbox: Stepping down

Lori

[TheDuckRocks]

It's not just the bus drivers that need some practice loading and unloading. I watched one evening while someone in an ECV tried to back up the ramp into the bus. They went backwards, then forwards, then backwards, then forwards, then almost off the ramp itself. The driver tried to help by suggesting he turn this way or that.

We almost cheered when he finally got up the ramp and into the bus.

The person in that ECV was more than likely required to back on to that bus. On the older buses for some reason there is a law that makes you back in and the Disney driver is only doing this to keep his job. Believe me I have tried many times to charm a driver into letting me go in forward.:blush: It is a no go.
I have found that I have no problems getting on the bus backward or forward if I can focus in on what the driver is telling me, not listen to the hecklers and take my time to line up straight before starting back.
I did "snap" one day when 3 younger, in shape men stood and shouted that it was unfair that they had to wait for me to get on the bus. I'm sorry to say I asked them which one of them would like to step up and be a man and load the thing for me, since they knew they could do it better and faster. It was odd I had no takers.
Truely if you have never loaded an ECV on a bus yourself, I wouldn't be cheering at the misfortune of someone that is having trouble trying to do it.

[Granny Jill A]

The person in that ECV was more than likely required to back on to that bus. On the older buses for some reason there is a law that makes you back in and the Disney driver is only doing this to keep his job. Believe me I have tried many times to charm a driver into letting me go in forward.:blush: It is a no go.
I have found that I have no problems getting on the bus backward or forward if I can focus in on what the driver is telling me, not listen to the hecklers and take my time to line up straight before starting back.
I did "snap" one day when 3 younger, in shape men stood and shouted that it was unfair that they had to wait for me to get on the bus. I'm sorry to say I asked them which one of them would like to step up and be a man and load the thing for me, since they knew they could do it better and faster. It was odd I had no takers.
Truely if you have never loaded an ECV on a bus yourself, I wouldn't be cheering at the misfortune of someone that is having trouble trying to do it.

I had to grin when I read about your offer to the hecklers. It's tough to drive those things. I do know that they have to be backed in so they can be properly positioned in the bus.

Unfortunately, the delay in boarding causes a lot of tension and unkind remarks to be made.

Good for you on your snappy remarks, though.

[Granny Jill A]

Truely if you have never loaded an ECV on a bus yourself, I wouldn't be cheering at the misfortune of someone that is having trouble trying to do it.

I was re-reading your post and wanted to assure you that we were HAPPY for the man on the ECV. Everyone was smiling as he got his vehicle up the ramp and on the bus.:thumbsup:

[TheDuckRocks]

I was re-reading your post and wanted to assure you that we were HAPPY for the man on the ECV. Everyone was smiling as he got his vehicle up the ramp and on the bus.:thumbsup:

Sorry Granny Jill, I truely took that as everyone was cheering because they were put out with having to wait. I'm sorry that I jumped to this conclusion but so many have stated on this thread such negetive remarks that I was thinking, "Here we go again!"

[Granny Jill A]

Sorry Granny Jill, I truely took that as everyone was cheering because they were put out with having to wait. I'm sorry that I jumped to this conclusion but so many have stated on this thread such negetive remarks that I was thinking, "Here we go again!"

I can see where you would get that idea from my clumsy post. Actually, our crowd was quite civilized and sympathetic to the guy on the ECV. I used that example as a way of explaining why I think people might become hostile and unkind. It takes patience to enjoy Disney World, and some folks forget to pack theirs. :wait:

[ElenitaB]

I do know that they have to be backed in so they can be properly positioned in the bus.

Unfortunately, the delay in boarding causes a lot of tension and unkind remarks to be made.
I've always been under the impression that you must back in on the older buses so that the greater weight be on the lift part (i.e., the person's weight, the batteries and the motor) and not on the "extension" part.

I find it utterly nerve-wracking to have to back on to the ramp and then parallel park the ECV. I don't even like parallel parking my car to the left, much less an ECV with a gazillion people watching. :blush: It's kinda like a really weird driver's test!

[Granny Jill A]

I've always been under the impression that you must back in on the older buses so that the greater weight be on the lift part (i.e., the person's weight, the batteries and the motor) and not on the "extension" part.

Ah ha! I was not being very observant, but of course that makes perfect sense. I thought it was a direction thing where they had to back in each time and nose out when exiting the bus. Thanks for the clarification.

[tinkerbellybutton]

First off let me say that I know that the intent of this thread was not to offend and I truly am not trying to flame anyone but I, like Lori, am also offended at the thought of being made to use a different bus than "normal" people. I am able to use my legs but not for long and not for much. I also get tired quickly due to my disease. I will not go into a long explanation but let's just say that I ALWAYS wait my turn in the bus line and don't allow myself to be loaded first. There is already so much that I can't do because of my disease and spending 5 minutes on a bus with "normal" people, sharing excitement about where we are and what we are doing is one of the few things that kind of makes me forget that I'm not like everyone else. So many of the "normal" things in life have been stolen from me because of my disease, that making us take a special bus just adds insult to injury. Simple pleasures that so many people take for granted like holding your children or grandchildren (which a lot of times I cannot do) are blessings that you don't even see, so waiting 5 extra minutes for a w/c to be loaded onto a bus should make you grateful that you can step off the bus when it stops. I'm not trying to be a smart alec but should there also be a different bus for the elderly because some walk slower? Or maybe a seperate bus for families with children because you have to wait for the parents to move the strollers before you can get off the bus? Where does it end? No, the system is not perfect but at least it gives a little normalcy to those who aren't always afforded that luxury.

[We3]

I cannot believe that people are so disregarding of people who need wheel chairs. Maybe I have my head in the sky or I am naive, but I have never thought to get mad at someone who has to be loaded on or off the bus that is in a wheelchair. I remember thinking this last time (November 2008)how everyone I saw in a wheelchair was grateful to the bus driver and their parties tried to make it easy for the bus driver and how wonderful the bus drivers are and how much work it is for all involved and that everyone does it because everyone wants to share the magical world of Disney. When did our world become the wheelchair police? If someone is in a wheelchair, I assume they are supposed to be in one, not that they are trying to get on rides faster. I am sure it happens, I am not that naive, but truthfully, when I am at Disney I am concentrating on having fun, being in line is part of the experience and I don't waste my time trying to catch someone doing something they shouldn't. I do not feel that anyone who has to be in a wheelchair should have to be in a separate line. That is my lengthy 2 cents.