EBay sellers promise expired FastPasses are key to shorter Disney park lines

[caryrae]

Not sure if this has been posted or if it should be in the News section but thought it fit good here. Move it if you need to. I like the little quote in the last paragraph where the person says
"You might be better off asking someone with a little more experience. If Disney didn't scam ME every time I blinked, I wouldn't feel it necessary to try to make a little money back from our trip. You can put that in your write up". I guess Disney forced him to go there on vacation.


EBay sellers promise expired FastPasses are key to shorter Disney park lines

Scott Powers | Sentinel Staff Writer
July 8, 2008

Pssst! Wanna buy some old FastPass tickets that will supposedly get you around the long lines at Walt Disney World's most popular attractions?

Despite Disney's insistence that old FastPasses are worthless, a brisk after-market exists on Internet sites such as eBay.

Disney World wants to stop the trade, and a spokeswoman said the company has complained to eBay in particular. But business is business, leaving customers to take their own chances.

"Since there are no laws prohibiting the sale of expired tickets, listings for expired tickets are allowed," eBay spokeswoman Catherine England said. "eBay does not enforce third-party contracts, so it's up to whoever issues the tickets [in this case, Disney] to enforce the terms and conditions they've defined for their tickets."

Disney spokeswoman Zoraya Suarez said Disney tries to enforce the terms, though many of those who resell FastPasses insist it's not happening.

On most days, eBay features more than two dozen separate FastPass auctions, some for dozens of tickets. Some claim to offer VIP FastPasses good anywhere, anytime. Requested bid prices start at less than a dollar but can run into the hundreds of dollars.

FastPasses are the little paper tokens printed by Disney World kiosk machines for many of the resort's most popular theme-park rides and other attractions. Once inside a park, visitors can pick up the passes and then return at the designated time to avoid the long waiting line for the general public. Instead, those with FastPasses are sent through an "express" entrance with a shorter wait.

The passes are free, though there are limits on their availability each day. Disney World has offered various versions over the years, with different rules for ride entry, including a VIP FastPass introduced last fall for politicians and celebrities traveling with entourages.


Disney tries to head off bogus tickets

All recent FastPass tickets are stamped with a time and date, and with the warnings "NOT FOR SALE," "Valid only on date printed" and "Nontransferable." Suarez said Disney World ride and attraction attendants are instructed to reject any FastPass not stamped with the current date and time, as well as any tickets that are so old that they are not stamped with a date at all.

"What we typically do, we have the cast member politely explain the FastPass is only valid for the date and time issued, then we invite the guest to get a valid FastPass or go to the stand-by queue," Suarez said.

Disney also has taken steps to intercept counterfeit FastPass tickets. All valid FastPasses are cut by machine at the kiosks, resulting in perforated edges. Suarez said ride attendants are instructed to feel with their fingers for perforated edges and reject any tickets that don't have them. Disney also has been experimenting with more automated FastPass technology, adding bar codes to the tickets and installing bar-code readers at some attractions.


Online pitches offer assurances

In their online-auction pitches, those selling FastPasses openly debate Disney's diligence in monitoring the passes.

"Cast members do not bother looking at the date. I am so sure of this I offer a money-back guarantee," one recent FastPass seller on eBay stated in his auction description.

A different seller offering undated FastPasses countered: "Despite what other sellers on eBay claim, Disney IS checking dates and they ARE turning people away." But this seller argued, in his auction description, that would not be a problem with the passes he was selling because "none of these tickets has any expiration date whatsoever."

Many of the sellers appear to be trying to sidestep potential trouble from eBay by promoting the FastPasses in their offers, but then stating in fine print that they are actually selling a plain envelope, or a Disney park map, or some other object of minute value, and are throwing in a few free FastPasses for the winning bidder.

England said such sleight of hand is pointless.

"These sellers think they are skirting an eBay policy when, in the case of expired tickets, no such policy applies," she said.

The Orlando Sentinel attempted to contact several sellers, including one in Deltona who sold the Sentinel eight March 9 FastPasses to the Winnie the Pooh ride in Magic Kingdom for $6.50. But only one seller, from Georgia, responded.

"This is the first time I've ever sold any FastPasses," the unidentified seller stated in an e-mail. "You might be better off asking someone with a little more experience. If Disney didn't scam ME every time I blinked, I wouldn't feel it necessary to try to make a little money back from our trip. You can put that in your write up. :) Thanks for asking."

[Young@Heart]

I don't like this practice at all, and I really hope CM's start checking dates.

However, it wouldn't be so good for us if they start enforcing the times, too. I don't see how the time could effect sales on ebay, so I don't see why they'd care. We often don't make it back during the time window. We leave the parks for a rest in the afternoons, and often our return time falls then. If this happens, we use our FP when we get back to the park. Or, we might be in line for another attraction and not make it back to the FP ride in time.

[scoot241]

"You might be better off asking someone with a little more experience. If Disney didn't scam ME every time I blinked, I wouldn't feel it necessary to try to make a little money back from our trip. You can put that in your write up".


:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::funny::funny::funny:

I may not agree with everything Disney does, but to call WDW a scam? Get real...

You can always go vacation somewhere else.

[KAJUNKING]

i agree that disney should really enforcing the dates, and as far as couterfiet passes is it really worth getting tossed out the park to get on an attraction a little quicker?

[caryrae]

You would think to stop counterfeit tickets couldn't they have the FP machines print some kinda symbol or small icon on the FP ticket and they can change the symbol that's printed everyday or week or something. I guess maybe it would be to tough to make sure all the CM checking the FP's know and remember what the symbol or the day is.

[ThanxForNoticin]

i agree that disney should really enforcing the dates, and as far as couterfiet passes is it really worth getting tossed out the park to get on an attraction a little quicker?

I could not agree more. How ridiculous is it that people even think about selling something like this - let alone think about buying something like this? And their example of the FP for Winnie the Pooh? That is a kid's ride the last time I looked. What are they teaching those kids? It's OK to lie and cheat to save 15 minutes in line - ONCE? Amazing. Hopefully, this situation will only require the CMs to make sure the date on the FP is the current day. I'm not even worried about folks coming back beyond their time that day. There are a fixed number of FPs each day - as long as they're not allowing folks through with a purchased 6-month old FP, the system will continue to work fine. Maybe they'll just have to have an official policy of what happens to the family that tries to use the expired FPs - like a guided tour to the front of the park with a Disney security guard....

[Von-Drake]

We have had a similar discussion in the past, but if they move to enforce the date, they should move to enforce the time period printed on the fastpass as well.

[tink'72]

You know I was on ebay the other day looking for WDW trading pins for my DD and saw someone selling a white envelope with 4 fast passes in it that were for sometime in June! I couldn't believe it! How can they do that? I do hope the CM's start checking dates.

[CaptainSad]

From what I have been told. You can't buy Fastpasses. The people that sell them are scam artists. I know of people who have gotten these ( Plain white envelope) and tried to use them and were told they were no good. If you buy them BEWARE.... Disney does not sell Fastpasses to any single ride. What you see are internal. And only can be used on the date printed on the ticket.

[TINKERBELL_82]

Money back guarantee that CM's dont look at the date, huh? Well, they sure looked at the date when I accidentally pulled a FP from a visit the previous month out of my AP sleeve and handed it to them.:blush:

Thankfully, I had actually obtained real FP's and was good to go! :thumbsup:

I feel bad for anyone who gets duped by these scam artists. And I can't beleive Ebay would not pull the listings when Disney asked them to. Thats why my Ebay purchases are very few and far between. Too many scammers out there trying to make a buck.:(

[crazeedizneefinatic]

Crazy that Disney allows fastpasses to be used past the date or time IMO. When I take a fastpass I make sure that I am able to return between those times otherwise I do not take one, it's not fair to those who do. If my time is approaching I don't get on a ride or stop to eat. Disney is defeating the purpose by letting peole do this. It's not a whenever you get around to it pass. Maybe a grace period of 15 minutes is okay but days or hours is ridiculous.

On the other hand it does not surprise me that people are selling these, is it right no, but not surprising. Just like people who sell clipped coupons and such. People are getting away with selling these free things by saying they are being paid for their time for collecting these items. I think that is where the loophole is, Ebay does allow you to sell services, and technically this is a service. The only people who are going to stop this is Disney.

I do not agree with selling these at all, it's terrible. Who I really feel bad for is the people that buy them and don't know they are free or people that are buying them and Disney will decide to finally make things fair by enforcing the dates and times.

I can see a solution to this, Disney starting to sell them themselves, LOL. It seems people are willing to pay (not me!) for front of the line privledges. I hope I am totally wrong on this but I do agree that in the past several years it seems Disney is blatently about the money. Won't stop me from going though, we love Disney and always will, I guess I will be in the back of the line.

[FlaTinkRAMESAM]

I agree that the practice stinks...

Cast members checking that date and time is not always a guarantee... I have used old fast-passes from previous trips (not on purpose, but they all stay in my wallet if I don't use them, so if I see a Buzz Lightyear one, I think it is the one we have just gotten, not one from 2 weeks ago that I forgot was in there)... some do, some don't. It'd be nice if they did check, because it would certainly curb this practice of selling and buying...

[CaptainSad]

Disney will let you use the Fastpasses for the day it is used. But you have to go during the time you are to return or later during the day. They do that because they know that you may be at another area of the park and will not make it back during the time. You can't use it before the time or any day after what is stamp on the ticket. The Cast Members that I have seen have always looked at the ticket for the time and day. And I have seen myself that they will refuse entry if the ticket has the wrong date and time.

[em-n-mia's-mommy]

I personally am disgusted that sellers are taking advantage of people who probably do not know any better. I went on ebay looking up fast passes and could not beleive that these were being sold for some $150 on buy it now. I took it upon myself to email some sellers and tell them shame on them. I wish they could let you know the buyers identity to email them and let them know they are being frauded. I read one sellers feedback and this lady said that they were fake and that it caused her family a lot of embarressment on a ride. I hope this practice stops soon.

[BigRedDad]

The solution to the problem is so simple that I cannot believe WDW has not figured this out yet. You have to stick your park ticket to get a FP. The kiosk should load the FP on your park ticket and only print out a time for you to return (as it does now). When you get to the FP line, you insert your park ticket. At that time, the turn-style has your biometrics and park ticket. If you have a valid pass, it lets you in. Otherwise, you don't get access. Everyone can use the argument that "I could not make it back at the time it said", but that is too bad. You know the time when you go request it and you know the time frame when you have to get back to it. If you don't get there during that 1-hour window, you missed your FP opportunity.

This solves the sale of FP, it solves the issue of people taking an entire tour groups to one FP line, waiting for the exact time to load in another 500 cards, it stops people from using en expired FP, and makes it entirely fair to the rest of us there.

I guess the Imagineers never thought of that one. Maybe I should patent the idea and sell it to them. At least it is now documented publicly and I could patent it after they implement. Then I can get the royalties.

[Seasonscraps]

I just looked at a couple of listings - a few of them are selling souveniers so Ebay is in the clear. If people are willing to buy passes that are expired, let them. Shame on them for trying to get around the system.

This will (I hope) get more CMs to enforce the return windows. If Disney was consistant with that, there wouldn't even be a market for expired FPs.

[caryrae]

Maybe the barcode idea they talk about in the article is a good idea. Once you get the FP it has the barcode and you scan it at the FP ride entrance and will say if the ticket is accepted or not.


I personally am disgusted that sellers are taking advantage of people who probably do not know any better. I went on ebay looking up fast passes and could not beleive that these were being sold for some $150 on buy it now. I took it upon myself to email some sellers and tell them shame on them. I wish they could let you know the buyers identity to email them and let them know they are being frauded. I read one sellers feedback and this lady said that they were fake and that it caused her family a lot of embarressment on a ride. I hope this practice stops soon.

Probably wouldn't help but we could all e-mail Ebay and ask them to stop.

[McGoofy]

You know I was on ebay the other day looking for WDW trading pins for my DD and saw someone selling a white envelope with 4 fast passes in it that were for sometime in June! I couldn't believe it! How can they do that? I do hope the CM's start checking dates.

I don't know about the particular one that you saw, but I have seen the same thing in listings, and if you read carefully, they often make it clear that it is the envelope that is for sale. That sort of creates a loop hole to get around the fact that it is really the fastpasses are for sale. The fastpasses just happen to come for free inside the envelope.:sick: That just disgusts me when people try to cheat the system like that.

[CaptainJessicaSparrow]

I can tell you that I've personally received expired FP from leaders as comp for things (or when family visits) FROM THE LEADER. Not by much, just a day or two but they will still accept them because the attendants know those ones are from leaders.

Not months, however.

I personally, will be checking the dates and making sure they are correct. Height requirements too.

[Stickey]

Unfortunately, there is a scam for almost anything. Those who purchase these bogus/expired FP's should receive no pity and Disney security should escort the offenders out of the park.

Disney FP policy states that a FP is only valid on the DATE that it is issued. The return time serves as a guideline. There is no reasonable comparison between utilizing a FP after the printed return time(in compliance with Disney policy) and the attempt to use a fraudulant FP.

[McGoofy]

Unfortunately, there is a scam for almost anything. Those who purchase these bogus/expired FP's should receive no pity and Disney security should escort the offenders out of the park.

Disney FP policy states that a FP is only valid on the DATE that it is issued. The return time serves as a guideline. There is no reasonable comparison between utilizing a FP after the printed return time(in compliance with Disney policy) and the attempt to use a fraudulant FP.

I agree. The user of the expired tickets, whether innocently or purposefully, is cheating the system as well. If expired tickets did not work when they were attempted to be used at a later date, I guarantee fraudulent sales would most likely come to a hault when that word got out!

[Von-Drake]

Disney FP policy states that a FP is only valid on the DATE that it is issued. The return time serves as a guideline. There is no reasonable comparison between utilizing a FP after the printed return time(in compliance with Disney policy) and the attempt to use a fraudulant FP.

I do not have one, but is it also noted in the FastPass policy that the printed return time is only a suggested guideline? If not than it is only an assumption that it is a guideline. It is a well known fact that CM's will not let you on the ride prior to the stamped time. Probably even after informing them the printed time is only a guideline and is not a hard fast requirement.
I am just sayin.... but since there is another thread already existing for this specific discussion no need to continue on this one...

[Disney Doll]

Makes E-Bay look bad to be condoning this kind of thing. I understand that E-bay wants to allow for the sale of expired tickets because I know there are serious collectors out there for every obscure thing, BUT they should make sellers be more clear about the expiration dates and should explicitly state that the tickets are for collectible purposes and cannot be used.

[DonaldDuck1117]

If this makes Disney start enforcing the RETURN TIME as well then I'm all for it. Those who show up past their return time screw up the whole system resulting in longer waits for both Fast Pass lines AND the stand by lines.

[caryrae]

I think they should just enforce the date and times on the FP. It is possible but probably wouldn't happen, that everyone who got a FP for a certain ride, held onto them til the end of the day there would be quite the FP line. I and I am sure most people can get to the ride within the hour on the FP. If I didn't make it either we get another FP for the ride or get in the stand-by line.

[MississippiDisneyFreak]

:mad: I just cannot believe that people would actually stoop to this

[BelleCiavo]

They're even selling Honey I Shrunk the Audience FPs. :funny:

[Seasonscraps]

They're even selling Honey I Shrunk the Audience FPs. :funny:

That's awsome :rotfl:

(in the shame on you for taking advantage/trying to beat the system way. :blush:)

[dizknee531]

The solution to the problem is so simple that I cannot believe WDW has not figured this out yet. You have to stick your park ticket to get a FP. The kiosk should load the FP on your park ticket and only print out a time for you to return (as it does now). When you get to the FP line, you insert your park ticket. At that time, the turn-style has your biometrics and park ticket. If you have a valid pass, it lets you in. Otherwise, you don't get access. Everyone can use the argument that "I could not make it back at the time it said", but that is too bad. You know the time when you go request it and you know the time frame when you have to get back to it. If you don't get there during that 1-hour window, you missed your FP opportunity.

This solves the sale of FP, it solves the issue of people taking an entire tour groups to one FP line, waiting for the exact time to load in another 500 cards, it stops people from using en expired FP, and makes it entirely fair to the rest of us there.

I guess the Imagineers never thought of that one. Maybe I should patent the idea and sell it to them. At least it is now documented publicly and I could patent it after they implement. Then I can get the royalties.Love this idea!!!:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:
It's such a shame it takes a few people to ruin it for everyone!!:mad::mad::mad:

[CaptSmee]

This is interesting...last vacation we had at WDW my brother was ill and we had to leave the parks and we had the same debate. I insisted we would have no problem using our fastpasses for the day we left the parks on a subsequent date because CM's never look that closely at the tickets.

[lilmick]

I'm going to defend both Walt Disney World and Ebay (I'm an Ebay PowerSeller...of clothing, not Fast Passes) and say that the people who are BUYING the tickets hold the key to ending this ridiculous and greedy situation. DON'T BUY FAST PASSES ON EBAY! Why would ANYONE even do this?!!! If there were no buyers, the swindlers on Ebay would have no reason to try to sell them and WDW wouldn't have to worry about people using them.

[garymacd]

"There's a sucker born every minute."

"This way to the egress, folks."

P.T. Barnum

[LauraleeH]

I can't believe people would waste their money on this! By the way, Disney DOES check fastpasses. Last time we were at AK, we got a fastpass for Expedition Everest, stood in the regular line, and by the time we got off the ride, it was basically time to redeem the fastpasses. Well, the guy wouldn't even let us get in line yet because we had 1 minute to go. There were 4 of us and we had to wait on the side for a full 60 seconds (Not a big deal) but then the CM let another family go because they only had two people. The other CM saw us waiting and asked why he did that, and he said, "It was just two people."
I agree that Disney (Like the rest of the world) can be a little unfair sometimes, but I'm not going to sell expired tickets on ebay, just because I think I could get away with it.

[Seasonscraps]

I can't believe people would waste their money on this! By the way, Disney DOES check fastpasses. Last time we were at AK, we got a fastpass for Expedition Everest, stood in the regular line, and by the time we got off the ride, it was basically time to redeem the fastpasses. Well, the guy wouldn't even let us get in line yet because we had 1 minute to go. There were 4 of us and we had to wait on the side for a full 60 seconds (Not a big deal) but then the CM let another family go because they only had two people. The other CM saw us waiting and asked why he did that, and he said, "It was just two people."
I agree that Disney (Like the rest of the world) can be a little unfair sometimes, but I'm not going to sell expired tickets on ebay, just because I think I could get away with it.

I have always heard the start time of the return window is strictly enforced. A similar thing happened to us with Soarin'.

It seems the end time is up for debate - I have seen posts saying they used FPs later in the day (well after the end time of the return window) and others saying they were accepted on later days of the vacation.

[disneyfan1124]

Let me get this straight...some nasty person goes up to the FP kiosk and gets a bunch of tix, not intending to use them-therefore reducing the number available to others for the day-then they try to sell them online? How else are they getting the tix? When we use FP, the CM always checks date/time, and then collects the pass! There is nothing to take home with us to sell on eBay--not that we would ever do such a horrid scheme! The whole thing is sick! What a shame...

[luvdiznee]

But this reminds me of a site that sells coupons for Las Vegas. Because after we came back from our trip, some friends of ours went and I kept telling them not to order these coupons, basically for "by 1 get 1 free" type food stuff, because it is in those "Vegas" magazines/booklets that are in each and every hotel lobby, including the airport. But they did and then after not only did they not even use them all but most of them were in those booklets. Oh well...;)

[Stickey]

To further clarify, Disney enforces the start time for a FP. The return window is not enforced, as long as you return in the same day.

Disney CM's often confirm this utilization of the FP return times as acceptable. Disney must periodically analyze FP useage and has likely determined that the current practice works.
Thus, returning after your FP window is not considered to be a violation of FP policy, dishonest, or fraudulant.

[Imagineer1981]

I'm sorry, I know that most CM's do like there job...I worked there long enough to know that most CMs just take the tickets and let you go...trust me I took them for 4 years, and I never looked at the date, just the time...mainly because CM's don't want confrontation with the guests. We were told to watch for this and that, but only CMs who were hardcore cared, generally half the CMs are college program and what do they care

[Young@Heart]

To further clarify, Disney enforces the start time for a FP. The return window is not enforced, as long as you return in the same day.

Disney CM's often confirm this utilization of the FP return times as acceptable. Disney must periodically analyze FP useage and has likely determined that the current practice works.
Thus, returning after your FP window is not considered to be a violation of FP policy, dishonest, or fraudulant.

Thank you for confirming this. We certainly don't make a practice of returning past the time of the FP window (on the same date), however it does happen now and then. I know last trip we got FP's for the Jungle Cruise and couldn't go b/c a huge storm started right before our return time. We waited it out in a gift shop, but after 45 min, we had to give up and make a run to the gate through the rain. I didn't want to miss our first ADR, so we came back after dinner, the rain had stopped, and we used our FP. The funny thing is, there was literally no one in line for this when we returned, but we had the FP's in my pocket, so I figured I might as well use them. ;)