Are the food offerings at EPCOT World Showcase filling your need for authenticity?

[animalkingdomguy]

Are the food offerings at the EPCOT World Showcase area filling your need for authenticity? I have a non-Disney friend who refers to EPCOT as faux-culture. His opinion is that the experiences we receive by visiting a Disney version of any of the country pavilions at EPCOT is a poor substitute for the real thing. Until recently, I argued against his point of view that is until I sampled a favorite desert I originally tasted in 2000 when visiting the China pavilion. In 2000, the red bean ice cream had a different and foreign flavor that I enjoyed and relished due to this Un-American nature. In 2007, this same menu item is strawberry ice cream with a few red beans.

I would value your experiences and opinions. Should Disney Americanize the menus at world showcase or should they have a limited number of authentic menu items that really speak to the culture of each country? Like me, have you lost a little piece of the magic when you bite into a culture only to taste an Americanize cuisine?

[TheRustyScupper]

. . . I have a non-Disney friend who refers to EPCOT as faux-culture. His opinion is that the experiences we receive by visiting a Disney version of any of the country pavilions at EPCOT is a poor substitute for the real thing.

1) A little harsh, but not too much off the mark.
2) If WDW did not Americanize, the eateries wouldn't make money.
3) OK, so that is also a little harsh.
4) But, the eateries would not be as popular in their national/native form.
5) I am not saying this is wrong - it is just good business.

NOTE: I have spoken with many of the off-duty foreign CM's, and they complain often that their country's food is not well represented at their pavilions.

[DDuck66]

I would have to agree 100%. While a lot of foreign cuisine is not to my taste, I think one of the major attractions for Epcot is the originality offerred by the different lands. A lot of people may never get the chance to eat at a Morroccan or German restaurant in the "real" world, but Epcot should give them the opportunity for a small taste of originality.

[animalkingdomguy]

To clarify slightly, I am certainly not advocating a radical departure from the norm. I understand for example that Coca Cola is sold in each country. What I was really trying to convey was a hope that there would be one or two unique menu items available at each county that really captured the culinary culture of that country. These could be along side the staple American fare. As an example, the item that is available and I think really hits the nail on the head is lefsa in Norway. Having lived near Norwegians lefsa is an iconic Norwegian food.

It would be great to have the culinary management at Disney to get serious input from the visiting foreign castmembers. These people really have a pulse of their country and could bring a delightful culinary dimension to each pavilion.

Thanks for the input. Please keep it coming.

[Mufasa]

I'm reminded of some (disturbing) comments I remember reading in a New York Times article over 20 years ago regarding Chefs de France (and of particular note were the comments by Paul Bocuse- one of 3 legendary French chefs along with Roger Verge and Gaston Lenotre that oversee the restaurant) that seem to sum up the approach with regards to authenticity.

''We try to give guests a good impression of French cuisine,'' explained Michael Neuner, the general manager of Chefs de France. ''We're not talking about high-class cooking, but cuisine bourgeoise, the day-to-day food of France.''

And later in the article:

''We have had to cut down on seasonings because of the clientele we get at the restaurant,'' Mr. Bocuse explained. ''We are not cooking exactly like we do in Lyons, or if we were cooking for New Yorkers. People come here from all over America and they have different preferences.''

... Visiting the French pavilion at Epcot Center is no more a substitute for a dining pilgrimage to France than a Disney World jungle cruise is for an expedition up the Amazon. But then, as Mr. Bocuse noted: ''We don't aim to be the best restaurant in all of Florida. Just the best at Epcot Center.''

I think that last statement says quite a bit- what can you expect if you don't have pride in your cooking to represent the best it could possibly be but to just be good enough.

With restaurants like Nine Dragons- arguably, it should be the finest example of chinese cuisine at least on par with the better examples found in major cities and can make it's mark by showcasing the regional authentic specialties and diversity found in Chinese cuisine but instead the criticism is often that it isn't even any more memorable or authentic than your local take-out eatery back home.

I also find it very ironic that the American Adventure only features the Liberty Inn- a quick service establishment when they are missing an opportunity for a real dining experience that could feature regional highlights/dishes for a true taste of Americana- especially if they would feature some of the wonderful seasonal products from around the country to share with guests that would offer a unique experience that is more appealing than the standard theme park chicken strips and burgers.

With all of the choices in World Showcase, I don't see things improving either with the expansion of the DDP- if anything it probably encourages establishments to simplify and dumb down their menus to both increase service yields/profits as they try to offer familiar items so as to not alienate diners and lead to complaints.

[BelleLovesTheBeast]

2) If WDW did not Americanize, the eateries wouldn't make money.
4) But, the eateries would not be as popular in their national/native form.
5) I am not saying this is wrong - it is just good business.

I agree! Americans eat different than most countries so a lot of the food has to be Americanized. Also I think it is easier for some of the countries to have more authentic food than others. Some places eat so different from the US that I don't think most people would want to eat it if it wasn't Americanized. However I would like to see a couple of dishes that are really authentic at each of the restaurants.

[Aggie97]

I agree that the food offerings at Epcot's WS restaurants have been Americanized. I guess it's similar to what I've experienced when dining at "American" restaurants in other countries, where the dishes also are modified to accommodate local tastes.

It is nice that the WS restaurants offer some uniqueness compared to other theme park eateries. But with that said, it would be great if they did have a few more authentic dishes. If nothing else, I agree that the Liberty Inn could offer more than the usual burgers and chicken strips without alienating guests! :mickey:

[MickeyandTink]

I would have to agree 100%. While a lot of foreign cuisine is not to my taste, I think one of the major attractions for Epcot is the originality offerred by the different lands. A lot of people may never get the chance to eat at a Morroccan or German restaurant in the "real" world, but Epcot should give them the opportunity for a small taste of originality.

:exactly:

[KineGirl]

I agree as well. Sometimes I find it disappointing that the fare isnt more authentic. The menu in Japan for example is totally American. The Japanese would hardly eat so much red meat and my entire time in Japan I never even saw a "hibachi/teppanyaki" style restaurant. Same thing regarding Mexico - which I am partly - they generally eat their food much more spicy than whats served in Epcot. And I find that Chefs de France lacks some of the true French flavors & ingredients (the Bistro incorporates a little more). Cafe Tangeriene IMO is more authentic than Marrakesh in regards to flavor and is my FAVORITE restaurant in WS. All that being said I think the restaurants do a good job to try to introduce an "idea" of what their countries food is like for those who may not have opportunity to travel abroad or dine at more refined or authentic dining establishments and I normally enjoy my meals at WS regardless of "true authenticity".

[Septbride2002]

I'm happy with the resturants and the selection of foods. I honestly don't go to Epcot expecting the authenticate experience - I go to get a much cleaner, cheaper sampling of authenticity. The fact that the people are from their respective countries is the real value of Epcot as we actually stop and talk to many of them.

~Amanda

[Tinkerfreak]

I agree that the American pavillion could do a better job than just serving chicken strips, burgers, fries etc. I would love to see some nice homestyle food, not just fast food type food.

[Gator]

One of the reasons I love Epcot is because of all the international food choices. They all taste pretty good (except for San Angel :ack:). I can't wait to go back and eat there. Just relax. Nobody believes Epcot is the real place - but we still appreciate the international feel.

[TheRustyScupper]

. . . With all of the choices in World Showcase, I don't see things improving either with the expansion of the DDP- if anything it probably encourages establishments to simplify and dumb down their menus to both increase service yields/profits as they try to offer familiar items so as to not alienate diners and lead to complaints . . .

1) Alas, I have to agree.
2) I have posted many times the DDP is dumbing down the menus.
3) Unfortunately, the WDW public no longer demands good food & service.
4) They just want to pig-out.
5) Give 'em lots o' grub, and they don't care about quality.
6) How else can one explain the popularity of certain "TS" eateries?
7) Alas, the Lemmings flocking to mediocrity.

[Septbride2002]

1) Alas, I have to agree.
2) I have posted many times the DDP is dumbing down the menus.
3) Unfortunately, the WDW public no longer demands good food & service.
4) They just want to pig-out.
5) Give 'em lots o' grub, and they don't care about quality.
6) How else can one explain the popularity of certain "TS" eateries?
7) Alas, the Lemmings flocking to mediocrity.

I have to agree - I told my family next time we go I'm wearing a button that says "Boycotting the DDP!" That way maybe I wouldn't be asked every 5 seconds.

Also due to the dumbing down of the menus we tend to now eat more counter service.

~Amanda

[#1donaldfan]

1) Alas, I have to agree.
2) I have posted many times the DDP is dumbing down the menus.
3) Unfortunately, the WDW public no longer demands good food & service.
4) They just want to pig-out.
5) Give 'em lots o' grub, and they don't care about quality.
6) How else can one explain the popularity of certain "TS" eateries?
7) Alas, the Lemmings flocking to mediocrity.

I don't agree with point # 3 .... as a part of the WDW public I have to say that I expect my dinning experiences at Disney to be over the top and unlike any other. I expect great food and service, and so, with any place I go, even an Outback, Chili's, etc....

...... I have been all over the world and some of the dishes offered at, say Mexico, are not even close, they are just bad... authentic does not have to mean bad. I've had very, very good food in other countries...actually, I sorta miss some dishes that we cannot "duplicate"....

.....over all I feel EC does the best they can to make us return eaters.......I'm not a fan of the DDP either, it just doesn't make economical sense for us...:mickey:

[LauraF]

The menu in Japan for example is totally American. The Japanese would hardly eat so much red meat and my entire time in Japan I never even saw a "hibachi/teppanyaki" style restaurant.
Exactly.
I was eating in Japan one time many years ago and I noticed the restaurant was full of Japanese people. I asked a couple of families why they ate there and not other restaurants where they could try unfamiliar cuisines. They told me (to a person) that didn't have food like this at home, but it was close enough to be familiar but different enough to be new. Kind of like going for a salmon burger for us - the form is right but the taste is unusual.

I understand marketing to the lowest common denominator (I do it all day long at work), but there comes a point when you need to stop trying to make everybody happy and be the best you can be, not "just good enough." I understand American palates are not accustomed to some things, but that's not to say more authentic dishes can't be on the menu for those who want them. (I don't think haggis would be a big seller in the UK, so don't take it too far, okay?):D

I am always impressed when a restaurant is authentic to its regional cuisine, even if the tastes are my preference. I don't expect authentic Italian at WDW like I can get in the North End of Boston, but I'm sure Tutto Italia isn't bad. Just not like walking into Italy itself.

[biodtl]

I really enjoy authentic international food, but my family doesn't. So WS gives me an opportunity to have a "taste" of cuisine that I enjoy, while still being able to eat with my family - because otherwise, they would be elsewhere.

Also - even if it is just a "hint" of authentic - for non-adventurous eaters (like my family), it's a kind of "gateway" - if they like it, then they are more willing to try the more authentic stuff.


I agree that the American pavillion could do a better job than just serving chicken strips, burgers, fries etc. I would love to see some nice homestyle food, not just fast food type food.

Definitely - It would be nice to see some great KC BBQ or some Southern greens (or even a good philly steak or buffalo wings), etc.

[BelleLovesTheBeast]

I don't agree with point # 3 .... as a part of the WDW public I have to say that I expect my dinning experiences at Disney to be over the top and unlike any other. I expect great food and service, and so, with any place I go, even an Outback, Chili's, etc....


I completely agree! I want great service and food. I decided to get the deluxe DDP on our next trip because I want to try some of the signature restaurants and it financially makes more sense to do this DDP. The problem with the DDP is that they are offering it for free as a promotion. It should be set up for people who want to enjoy the experience of the TS restaurants.


Definitely - It would be nice to see some great KC BBQ or some Southern greens (or even a good philly steak or buffalo wings), etc.

I think it would be great to see a place that severed BBQ, cheese steaks, wings, chicken and biscuits or waffles, cajun/creole, etc. I think for a CS it's fine to have hamburgers, funnel cakes, etc. but the American pavilion needs to have a TS that offers true American cuisine from all regions of the country.

[MickeyandTink]

IThe problem with the DDP is that they are offering it for free as a promotion. It should be set up for people who want to enjoy the experience of the TS restaurants.

:mad: I hope I'm misinterpreting your comments, but they certainly smack of elitism. Not all of us can afford to stay at moderate or deluxe accomodations for our Disney vacation and many of us might not be able to justify the trip (including the TS experience) were it not for such promotions as free dining, which is only available for about four or five weeks a year anyway.

For some families, AAA, AP, military or some other discounts may be what they need to do the trip, for us its free dining. :eat:

Ok, I'm getting off the soapbox. :soapbox:

[Friend of Figment]

I'd just like to see more variety overall. It seems like the TS menus are getting to be the same. I really enjoy dining on vacation, but not if it is the same menu just different decorations.

[BelleLovesTheBeast]

:mad: I hope I'm misinterpreting your comments, but they certainly smack of elitism. Not all of us can afford to stay at moderate or deluxe accomodations for our Disney vacation and many of us might not be able to justify the trip (including the TS experience) were it not for such promotions as free dining, which is only available for about four or five weeks a year anyway.

For some families, AAA, AP, military or some other discounts may be what they need to do the trip, for us its free dining. :eat:

Ok, I'm getting off the soapbox. :soapbox:

To clear this up for everyone - I didn't mean anything towards anyone. I used the free DDP last year and I'm staying in a value so I can get the DDP deluxe this year.

I'll send you a PM to address your comments. I don't feel this is the place to do so.

[Jasper]

To try to get back to the original intent of this thread I can say for sure that the Mexico and Germany pavilion foods are not very authentic at all. While I have never actually been to Mexico we have recently made friends with a family that moved here from northern Mexico about two years ago and when they cook authentic Mexican it is nothing like what you get at Epcot. Among the surprising things is how spicy the American version of Mexican is compared with how they actually cook. Another thing is that what we call a taco is nothing like what they would call a taco.

Then as to the German food, my community is largely of German extract and we have a large German festival every August. For at least the last 10 years my sister-in-law and brother-in-law have hosted the same German family for the festival and they will cook us an authentic German meal each time they come over. Again it is not at all like what we serve or what is served at Epcot. One of the biggest differences is all the emphasis on sausages in the American version of things. In reality, they don't use nearly the amount of sausages as we do. The mother of the family that stays with them is actually an anthropologist who specializes in the Germany-Austrian region from which many of the people in this area come from so she is knows very well what she is talking about. Actually rabbit and venison (deer) are the two most common traditional meats of that region. In an interesting side note she says that in the last 20 years or so they are seeing a huge increase in sausages being eaten because they like the American version of German food so much!

As another aside it is also important to remember that every country also has their regional foods just like we do in America. For example, there is pizza in America and then there is the Chicago pizza. There is also the whole Cajun thing that happens down south that is often times not at all like what you find elsewhere in America. Thus, unless you have traveled extensively in each region of each country in question you may or may not have run into the versions served at Epcot. And then as we have all mentioned already there is the American impact on all these dishes to make them sell in Florida!

[katzctkpt]

as a part of the WDW public I have to say that I expect my dinning experiences at Disney to be over the top and unlike any other.



I'd just like to see more variety overall. It seems like the TS menus are getting to be the same. I really enjoy dining on vacation, but not if it is the same menu just different decorations.

:ditto: The food better be above and beyond. Especially for what it cost to eat.

[KineGirl]

To try to get back to the original intent of this thread I can say for sure that the Mexico and Germany pavilion foods are not very authentic at all. While I have never actually been to Mexico we have recently made friends with a family that moved here from northern Mexico about two years ago and when they cook authentic Mexican it is nothing like what you get at Epcot. Among the surprising things is how spicy the American version of Mexican is compared with how they actually cook. Another thing is that what we call a taco is nothing like what they would call a taco. ......
As another aside it is also important to remember that every country also has their regional foods just like we do in America. For example, there is pizza in America and then there is the Chicago pizza. There is also the whole Cajun thing that happens down south that is often times not at all like what you find elsewhere in America. Thus, unless you have traveled extensively in each region of each country in question you may or may not have run into the versions served at Epcot. And then as we have all mentioned already there is the American impact on all these dishes to make them sell in Florida!

As you stated there are different regions to each country and with that comes different flavors. Half of my family is from Mexico and consider American "mexican" very tame spice wise. Theres hardly a meal in their homes that isn't accompanied or enhanced by chilies and habaneros. I cant even hardly touch a habanero while my uncles eats them likes pickles. Theyre from central Mexico & the Yucatan.

[Crow]

I vote for more authenticity? i have said before that i think the selections are more sanitized & id like more spice.
and if anyone would like to send me to the respective countries Id be happy to do a study;)
i eat at Epcot the most for diff foods, CMs from other countries...and:beer::marg:
I think the dish or so at least added to menus is a good idea

[Disnamic Duo]

As you stated there are different regions to each country and with that comes different flavors. Half of my family is from Mexico and consider American "mexican" very tame spice wise. Theres hardly a meal in their homes that isn't accompanied or enhanced by chilies and habaneros. I cant even hardly touch a habanero while my uncles eats them likes pickles. Theyre from central Mexico & the Yucatan.

I think the point about different cuisine in different regions of countries is an important point to remember when critiquing/criticizing the food at EPCOT WS. I worked with a guy a couple years ago - a German engineer (from Germany) - who recommended a local German restaurant because of its authenticity (LOTS of sausage). The food at Biergarten is VERY similar to the food at this restaurant.

My wife and I ate at Alfredo's once and we were seated right next to an Italian couple (from Italy), and they LOVED Alfredo's because of its authenticity.

I now work with a guy from Mexico, and he took me to a local Mexican restaurant he recommends, and he's also cooked for my wife and I, and the food I ate at San Angel Inn was very close to the same.

I'm sure there are more authentic foods from different regions that they could offer, but I'm sure many (especially some Asian things) would NOT go over too well with many Americans.

[Mickey'sGirl]

I'm sure there are more authentic foods from different regions that they could offer, but I'm sure many (especially some Asian things) would NOT go over too well with many Americans.Exactly. I have said before that Le Cellier is sooooooooo NOT Canadian (in my urban Canadian opinion) ... but it covers off many regional "ideas" and plates them for the American palette. I think that the WS does a pretty good job -- They don't want to authenicate themselves out of business...... :mickey:

[JasonH]

Exactly. I have said before that Le Cellier is sooooooooo NOT Canadian (in my urban Canadian opinion) ... but it covers off many regional "ideas" and plates them for the American palette. I think that the WS does a pretty good job -- They don't want to authenicate themselves out of business...... :mickey:

I agree on this point. And I can prove on that b/c I had the opportunity to go to Canada several months ago for "job training". While I was there, I had asked several people if they ever had Cheddar Cheese Beer Soup, a favorite that is at Le Cellier. Everyone I asked looked at me, sometimes strangely, and say they have never heard of it. And this coming from people that live and work close to a Molson Beer plant!! So yes, I agree, most food you will find at WS will be Americanized, but hey, it's the closest I'll get to the real deal. :thumbsup:

[TheMartellFamily]

We go in with the idea that it the idea of what their food is like. We know that it is infact not exactly what a countries food is like.