Song of the South

[HairyBear]

Does anyone know if there is any recent information about re-releasing this movie? I checked several years ago and it could still be purchased in Europe but it was a different format so it wouldn't work here on my machine. My daughter wanted to know who Brer rabbit was I told her he was from a movie.... A movie not available in the US.:coaster:

[Strmchsr]

There's always rumors flying about, and Iger did make a comment about the possibility of revisiting the issue, but, no, there's no plans to release it.

[Wells]

I have been told that there are some excerpts from the animated segments of Song of the South included on the Masterpiece Edition of Alice in Wonderland. I don't own this DVD so I can't tell you where or how much of the animation is included. Maybe someone else can elaborate on this...???

[NotaGeek]

Moderator Alert

Wow! It has almost been a whole year since anyone brought up this topic.

Song of the South is a VERY touchy thread here due to its subject matter. There are past threads about it and you are free to search for them.

There are presently no plans to release the DVD in the USA, and Disney execs have been vocal about it in the past recent years.

Please keep discussion of this film on topic, and remember INTERCOT is a huge family with people from all socio-economic and racial backgrounds, and even though you may want to show this film to your families, Song of the South is widely viewed as being offensive and racist and even though its indisputably a film of historic significance for Disney, it's not generally one of the presently "loved" films due to its content.

[Scar]

... it's not generally one of the presently "loved" films due to its content.
Although I, for one, would like to view it and make up my own opinion about whether or not I would love it. :thumbsup:

[DizneyRox]

SotS has been avaialbe on DVD for a long time now. Not an official release, BUT if you do a search online, I'm sure you'll dig up a couple of sites that have it. I have a few different copies and while it's not a real remastered version, it is very much watchable. It is either a VHS transfer or one from a laser disc.

1/2 of me says that doens't sound right, but they have been around for a while. Either Disney doesn't care, or however they are doing it is legal.

You CAN buy the European version and have it converted to work with your current equipment. The European version is in PAL format and you will need to convert it to NTSC. You can put that on DVD or on VHS.

[NotaGeek]

Although I, for one, would like to view it and make up my own opinion about whether or not I would love it. :thumbsup:

And you can do that, by purchasing it on Ebay and having it converted to NTSC. You missed the point of my post.

[Scar]

You CAN buy the European version and have it converted to work with your current equipment. The European version is in PAL format and you will need to convert it to NTSC. You can but that on DVD or on VHS.


And you can do that, by purchasing it on Ebay and having it converted to NTSC. You missed the point of my post.Is this definitely legal? I may sound like a prude, but I am totally against copyright infringement and I refuse to watch or listen to anything that has been downloaded or copied illegally.

[Strmchsr]

Is this definitely legal? I may sound like a prude, but I am totally against copyright infringement and I refuse to watch or listen to anything that has been downloaded or copied illegally.

The European versions are legal. The sites DisneyRox referred to are definitely not legal as it involves someone making copies of copyrighted material and selling at a profit. As they are so easily found I'm very surprised Disney hasn't shut them down or sued them.

[BelleLovesTheBeast]

My DH found a website that sells an edited version of the movie that can be played on American/Canadian players. I don't know if it is legit.

I really wish Disney would release this. I have never seen it. I'd like to see the story behind Splash Mountain. If you search for it on amazon you can enter your email address for when it is released. They let the studio know how many people they have waiting for the release of the movie.

[SBETigg]

The Uncle Remus books from which Disney gets the Brer Rabbit stories may be available for those who want to know the tales. That's how I knew Brer Rabbit long before I saw Song of the South. You might want to check book sources and if you can't find the movie, you could read books. I'm guessing the problems from Song of the South may also be in the books, so not sure of availability and use caution to check them out before sharing them with kids (and keeping in mind that Uncle Remus may be an offensive term, I apologize- which also highlights why Disney would have such a time re-releasing this movie). The stories are basic morality tales not unlike the Aesop Fables.

[goofysbabe]

I have a copy (DVD) which I purchased from EBay. It's a hard to see at first -the picture is kinda dark, but other than that it's great. My children love this movie & so do I - it's the first Disney movie I can remember seeing at a theatre. I really do wish they would rerelease it.

[NotaGeek]

Here is a link to our INTERCOT partner Amazon.com's UK site (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Song-South-Ruth-Warrick/dp/B00004RO2K/ref=pd_bbs_1?ie=UTF8&s=video&qid=1204226076&sr=8-1). You can purchase a legal, Disney certified PAL version on VHS and easily have it transferred to NTSC DVD or VHS at most camera or at many electronics stores. If you own the original VHS you can transfer it yourself, for your own use and it"s not illegal.

[Strmchsr]

The Uncle Remus books from which Disney gets the Brer Rabbit stories may be available for those who want to know the tales. That's how I knew Brer Rabbit long before I saw Song of the South. You might want to check book sources and if you can't find the movie, you could read books. I'm guessing the problems from Song of the South may also be in the books, so not sure of availability and use caution to check them out before sharing them with kids.

You can actually get the Uncle Remus books at WDW. I know in the Splash Mountain gift shop, but I believe I saw them a couple of other places, too. I don't know why they think it's okay to release the books, but not the movie but there you are. So, if you want the book you can get it from WDW Merchandising.

[DizneyRox]

The European versions are legal. The sites DisneyRox referred to are definitely not legal as it involves someone making copies of copyrighted material and selling at a profit. As they are so easily found I'm very surprised Disney hasn't shut them down or sued them.
Which is why I don't understand why/how they haven't been shut down. Since they have been around so long and are so easily found, it makes we wonder if there is some sort of acceptance by Disney. Maybe there's some agreement so keep Disney's image clean, but still get a cut of the profits.

Doesn't make sense, but yes, converting a legal copy of a European VHS tape to DVD or NTSC VHS is totally legal. You need to own a real copy however and keep that real copy. If you lose the PAL version you must lose the NTSC version as well.

[d_m_n_n]

OMG, we just bought a DVD of SofS this weekend!! We were at a travel show and imagine my surprise when I saw Uncle Remus playing on a TV. :jaw: We ended up with 2 copies :blush: . Carrying them around you wouldn't believe how many people asked us where we found them. The guy selling them said they were purchased in England and converted. We couldn't wait to get home to watch it (it looked fabulous on our little TV in the car)!

[DisneyDudet]

In fact, the books sold at WDW are not the original Uncle Remus stories. They are adapted by other authors. If you want REAL Uncle Remus stories (which appeared in newspapers during their time), pick up a book by Joel Chandler Harris, who was the author.

I have, actually, done a lot of research into these stories, as most of my American Literature class, was a project and long paper on these stories, as well as Joel Chandler Harris. The Tales of Uncle Remus are considered modern fables, portraying life lessons for children to learn. Harris grew up during slavery (in the South), and spent time with many slaves, listening to stories and lessons they would say. Harris then wrote them in the same dialect used.

A lot of the "problems" found and criticized in the SotS movie would be the way Uncle Remus (and slavery in general) is depicted, as well as the verbiage used by the characters. I will not go into the specifics, but a lot of some of the same criticisms can be found in other movies by Disney. Take the crows in Dumbo. Same criticisms. While the crows are not as obvious as Harris' Tar Baby, I do think a lot of people take this a little too far. The idyllic nature of the master-slave relationship that some find far fetched is most likely not so.

From what I understand, most of the protesting of the movie came while the movie was in production. The NAACP has its thoughts on the movie, but they have not attempted to have the movie banned. Disney made this choice themselves.

It is hard for people who have not seen the movie to make their own judgments about it. It is hard to make real arguments for both sides based on the lack of access to the primary documentation, the movie itself. I highly doubt that Disney re-releasing the movie will make them "approve slavery." In fact, if you look at many of the Disney movies, there are a lot of common themes found, that if people really thought about it, they would not agree with, and hopefully think that Disney does not promote them.

I hope I did not offend anyone with this post. It was not my intention. I just merely wanted to give my opinion on this matter.

[HairyBear]

To tell you the truth I have never seen the whole movie. I have seen snips on the Wonderful World of Disney when I was a kid. So, I really don't know what is offensive about it. I understand some or all people may be offended by certain things that someone may say or do. My problem is that someone else decided that I shouldn't see it and made it nearly impossible to see. I believe the history books I read and studied in school talked about leaders that burned books and banned certain teachings and the world united against some of these same people. Today most people, myself included have diverse backgrounds and just want to get along with everyone. The problem is that some figureheads profit from the outrage( real or imagined). I probably could offend someone by simply taking another breath.

But I would have totally forgot about this movie if it weren't for the Splash Mountain ride. I guess that is Walt Disneys fault. I don't know if I would even like the movie seeing it as an adult. I had heard that at its time it was very advanced technically film mixing animated and live action shots.

[NotaGeek]

To tell you the truth I have never seen the whole movie. I have seen snips on the Wonderful World of Disney when I was a kid. So, I really don't know what is offensive about it. I understand some or all people may be offended by certain things that someone may say or do. My problem is that someone else decided that I shouldn't see it and made it nearly impossible to see. I believe the history books I read and studied in school talked about leaders that burned books and banned certain teachings and the world united against some of these same people. Today most people, myself included have diverse backgrounds and just want to get along with everyone. The problem is that some figureheads profit from the outrage( real or imagined). I probably could offend someone by simply taking another breath.

But I would have totally forgot about this movie if it weren't for the Splash Mountain ride. I guess that is Walt Disneys fault. I don't know if I would even like the movie seeing it as an adult. I had heard that at its time it was very advanced technically film mixing animated and live action shots.

The figure head that is not allowing this movie to be released is Disney. It's their decision.

[HairyBear]

You're right Michael but you have to admit they may have had pressure from one political group. Well I think it odd that they would authorize the construction of a new ride using key characters from the movie and book. When I ride Splash Mountain I enjoy it for what it is a ride. During the ride I get the impression that all the animals although they are different can live with each other and celebrate life and happiness together. Not as sappy as Small World but similar.

[NotaGeek]

You're right Michael but you have to admit they may have had pressure from one political group. Well I think it odd that they would authorize the construction of a new ride using key characters from the movie and book. When I ride Splash Mountain I enjoy it for what it is a ride. During the ride I get the impression that all the animals although they are different can live with each other and celebrate life and happiness together. Not as sappy as Small World but similar.

Why would you assume they have pressure from one political group? Splash Mountain opened in 1989 ... and although the ride is themed after he animted portions of Song of the South with Zip a dee Doo Dah as the theme ... that is NOT what is considered offensive about Song of the South. Here is an article that I posted the last time this thread came along:


Originally Posted by PirateLover
from snopes.com:
Song of the South, a 1946 Disney film mixing animation and live action, was based on the "Uncle Remus" Song of the South Video Cover stories of Joel Chandler Harris. Harris, who had grown up in Georgia during the Civil War, spent a lifetime compiling and publishing the tales told to him by former slaves. These stories -- many of which Harris learned from an old Black man he called "Uncle George" -- were first published as columns in The Atlanta Constitution and were later syndicated nationwide and published in book form. Harris's Uncle Remus was a fictitious old slave and philosopher who told entertaining fables about Br'er Rabbit and other woodland creatures in a Southern Black dialect.

Song of the South consists of animated sequences featuring Uncle Remus characters such as Br'er Rabbit, Br'er Fox, and Br'er Bear, framed by live-action portions in which Uncle Remus (portrayed by actor James Baskett, who won a special Oscar for his efforts) tells the stories to a little white boy upset over his parents' impending divorce. Although some Blacks have always been uneasy about the minstrel tradition of the Uncle Remus stories, the major objections to Song of the South had to do with the live action portions. The film has been criticized both for "making slavery appear pleasant" and "pretending slavery didn't exist", even though the film (like Harris' original collection of stories) is set after the Civil War and the abolition of slavery. Still, as folklorist Patricia A. Turner writes:

Disney's 20th century re-creation of Harris's frame story is much more heinous than the original. The days on the plantation located in "the United States of Georgia" begin and end with unsupervised Blacks singing songs about their wonderful home as they march to and from the fields. Disney and company made no attempt to to render the music in the style of the spirituals and work songs that would have been sung during this era. They provided no indication regarding the status of the Blacks on the plantation. Joel Chandler Harris set his stories in the post-slavery era, but Disney's version seems to take place during a surreal time when Blacks lived on slave quarters on a plantation, worked diligently for no visible reward and considered Atlanta a viable place for an old Black man to set out for.

Kind old Uncle Remus caters to the needs of the young white boy whose father has inexplicably left him and his mother at the plantation. An obviously ill-kept Black child of the same age named Toby is assigned to look after the white boy, Johnny. Although Toby makes one reference to his "ma," his parents are nowhere to be seen. The African-American adults in the film pay attention to him only when he neglects his responsibilities as Johnny's playmate-keeper. He is up before Johnny in the morning in order to bring his white charge water to wash with and keep him entertained.

The boys befriend a little blond girl, Ginny, whose family clearly represents the neighborhood's white trash. Although Johnny coaxes his mother into inviting Ginny to his fancy birthday party at the big house, Toby is curiously absent from the party scenes. Toby is good enough to catch frogs with, but not good enough to have birthday cake with. When Toby and Johnny are with Uncle Remus, the gray-haired Black man directs most of his attention to the white child. Thus Blacks on the plantation are seen as willingly subservient to the whites to the extent that they overlook the needs of their own children. When Johnny's mother threatens to keep her son away from the old gentleman's cabin, Uncle Remus is so hurt that he starts to run away. In the world that Disney made, the Blacks sublimate their own lives in order to be better servants to the white family. If Disney had truly understood the message of the tales he animated so delightfully, he would have realized the extent of distortion of the frame story.

The NAACP acknowledged "the remarkable artistic merit" of the film when it was first released, but decried "the impression it gives of an idyllic master-slave relationship". Disney re-released the film in 1956, but then kept it out of circulation all throughout the turbulent civil rights era of the 1960s. In 1970 Disney announced in Variety that Song of the South had been "permanently" retired, but the studio eventually changed its mind and re-released the film in 1972, 1981, and again in 1986 for a fortieth anniversary celebration. Although the film has only been released to the home video market in various European and Asian countries, Disney's reluctance to market it in the USA is not a reaction to an alleged threat by the NAACP to boycott Disney products. The NAACP fielded objections to Song of the South when it premiered, but it has no current position on the movie.

Perhaps lost in all the controversy over the film is the fact that James Baskett, a Black man, was the very first live actor ever hired by Disney. Allegedly, though, Baskett was unable to attend the film's premiere in Atlanta because no hotel would give him a room.

[LauraleeH]

I absolutely love this movie and I wish that Disney would release it, but I don't think they ever will.

[HairyBear]

Why would you assume they have pressure from one political group? Splash Mountain opened in 1989 ... and although the ride is themed after he animted portions of Song of the South with Zip a dee Doo Dah as the theme ... that is NOT what is considered offensive about Song of the South. Here is an article that I posted the last time this thread came along:

My opinion is that some type of pressure caused Disney to withdraw the offering. Although you have a previous posting for an example that contains facts there is also opinion in your example. I am not really that familiar with the total history of the film. It does seem that they went back and forth on the use of the film. Your history of the film says that the ride was made in 1989. The filmed was re-released in an anniversary edition before then. Since they were having so many problems coming to a congruous decision regarding the film.It would have been easier to bury it and choose another theme for the ride. It isn't a surprise that current and future fans of Splash Mountain are curious about the movie.
:thumbsup:

[NotaGeek]

Actually, I think that the average park goer has no idea what Splash is themed for and has no idea that Song of the South even exists.

[dlpmikki]

I bought the UK version when it was out over here one time. The animated portions of the film are very good but are really the only bits worth watching. Disney not releasing it only makes more people want to watch it. Wish they could release the animated parts on their own - now that would be worth watching.

[Wells]

You can actually get the Uncle Remus books at WDW. I know in the Splash Mountain gift shop, but I believe I saw them a couple of other places, too. I don't know why they think it's okay to release the books, but not the movie
The original versions of the Uncle Remus books by Joel Chandler Harris are in the public domain now and can be freely downloaded from the Project Gutenburg web site….:)

[HairyBear]

I do remember reading the Uncle Reamus books in elementary school.I guess that's why I thought that they seemed familiar.Very true, it seems to have sparked conversation. I had thought that Disney had created some of 'classics' I' think that Snow White, Pinnochio and others were based on stories written which Disney purchased rights to. There is probably something that could be offensive about some of the 'classics'. But the same could be said of many stories. I'm sure somebody else probably knows a lot more about this subject than I do.

Thanks to everyone providing information on the Song Of The South. I guess I'll go watch the Disney Kidsongs tape that shoes the Zip A Dee Dooh Dah bit, since this seems to be the most notable part of the film.

:mickey:Remember Everybody needs a laughing place!:)

[SBETigg]

There's a vast difference between censorship and a company simply deciding to stop marketing their own product. Disney has a right to decide not to further promote the film. That's not censorship, it's marketing. You can easily do some research to decide how you feel about the contents of the film. I support Disney's decision and I sincerely doubt there is pressure from any one group bringing about that decision.

[ChipnDaleGal]

I think that the original question of this thread has been answered. I want to thank everyone for handling this subject in a very calm, and reasonable way. This has been a "hot button" thread in the past and we moderators in this forum always get a little nervous when we see a new thread started on this topic. At this point I don't know what any further discussion could do, so I am going to close it down now. Thanks to all who participated