Disney Dining Experience Program Changes

[pugslave]

Hi All - I just recevied an email from Disney and there was a dining change I thought was interesting:

We would also like to inform you that the Walt Disney World® Resort will be implementing an across property policy change regarding gratuity at all food and beverage locations. Effective January 1, 2008, 18% gratuity will be added to all transactions, regardless of party size. Thank you for your continued support.

Cheers!


The Disney Dining Experience Team

[Goofy Pluto]

That's not right! You shouldn't automatically be required to leave a tip of that %. It should be up to the customer to decide what the tip is based on the service they received. Granted, that's about the norm for me, but it's still not right.

Thank goodness we're going before January. (TWO WEEKS!!! :D )

[brewcrew26]

Does that also include if you're on the Dining Plan?

All these changes lately to something simple like food has my head spinning... :dizzy:

[sleepingbooty]

I'm curious why they sent this to you. Was this in response to an email question from you, or was this apropos of nothing?

[DVC Mike]

The email was sent to everyone who has the DDE card.

I always tip 20%, or more if the service is exceptional.

I guess I'm going to save 2% and complain to the manager if I get poor service.

[faline]

Is this only for folks using the Dining experience card or for everyone?

[mudpuppysmom]

I didn't get the email and I'm not sure I like this change!!!

[epcot3]

I received the same email. I wonder if this just applies to places where the DDE card can be used, or if it applies to counter service also.
I have never used the Dining Plan, so how will this work on that? Will you have an 18% "bill" given to you when you are finished with your meal?:confused:

[mudpuppysmom]

According to this 18% will be added to ALL transactions that you use the DDE card on.....which means that at some CS locations you'll be tipping WHOM?!?!??!

Disney is telling us now that they'll give us a 20% discount on our bill, but 18% will now go to the servers!! Sort of negates the whole idea of having the card!!

I didn't get an email telling me this, nor have I received anything in the mail. I know that terms are subject to change at any time, but I think that they need to tell EVERYONE who has the card!!

I'm not happy........:mad::mad::mad:

[crazykids]

I received the same e mail & it states the 18% will be added to all transactions, not just DDE. This means for all that use the dining plan - the servers will still get the 18%, but now YOU have to pay it out of pocket!

[faline]

Actually, this move saves me money. I've always looked at the card as getting the tip "for free". Now, the tip will actually be a little less than we normally tip and we don't need to play with the math.

[KylesMom]

Actually, this move saves me money. I've always looked at the card as getting the tip "for free". Now, the tip will actually be a little less than we normally tip and we don't need to play with the math.
Us too, Linda. We've always put the 20% back into the tip, rounding so that the bill is an equal amount. Now we'll save a few bucks per meal if they're going to automatically include it.

I am curious what they are going to do for CS-type locations such as Value food Courts, etcetera . . .

[Figment!]

The Disney Dining Experience Team has announced to its members a new policy change for obtaining membership cards, as well as, a new property wide gratuity policy that applies to all Guests.
Greetings from the Disney Dining Experience Team!

As 2008 quickly approaches, you will begin to see some exciting new developments for the Disney Dining Experience Membership Program. You asked and we listened! Effective November 11, 2007, you will no longer have to wait 3 – 6 weeks to receive your permanent membership card(s).

Guest Relations locations at Epcot®, MAGIC KINGDOM® Park, DISNEY’S ANIMAL KINGDOM® Theme Park, Disney-MGM Studios, DOWNTOWN DISNEY® West Side, and DOWNTOWN DISNEY® Marketplace will now be able to print permanent Disney Dining Experience membership cards for immediate use. This service is designed for existing and new members. Cards produced at the Guest Relations locations will be printed on paper stock similar to the annual pass tickets.

The Disney Dining Experience office will still be available to take applications for current and new members, via the phone, fax or mail for those who do not want to take advantage of the in-park service. Membership cards ordered through the Disney Dining Experience office will be received within 2 - 3 weeks of purchase.

All Guests who have ordered their Disney Dining Experience membership cards prior to November 11, 2007 date will have to pickup their temporary cards at the main entrance Epcot® Guest Relations. Your permanent card will be sent through the mail and arrive in 3-4 weeks from the date of purchase.

We would also like to inform you that the Walt Disney World® Resort will be implementing an across property policy change regarding gratuity at all food and beverage locations. Effective January 1, 2008, 18% gratuity will be added to all transactions, regardless of party size. Thank you for your continued support.

Cheers!


The Disney Dining Experience Team

Although the announcment was not clear, Reservations Cast have confirmed that the new automatic Gratuity policy only applies to Table Service locations.

[pugslave]

I'm not sure if it applies to just the DDE or not.it says "across property policy change" but is not more specific than that. I would assume if they were going to do this with the Dining Plan, they will probably raise the prices - to be applied to guests who purchase it after 1/1/08.

[Jared]

I don't understand why Disney would eliminate the automatic tip from the Disney Dining Plan and add it to the Disney Dining Experience card. Didn't Disney remove it from the plan because it wasn't a good strategy?

Let the party decide the tip, and make the server work for the cash. I truly believe servers are more attentive to tables not using the Disney Dining Plan, and now folks with the Disney Dining Experience card will be stiffed.

[Dsnygirl]

Actually, this move saves me money. I've always looked at the card as getting the tip "for free". Now, the tip will actually be a little less than we normally tip and we don't need to play with the math.

I agree... Dan & I have always done 20% for good service... so this actually saves us a bit at some locations! But, I'm hoping this doesn't apply to those of us who don't use DDE - I like to choose the tip myself, and will certainly leave less than 18% for poor service. To think they will force everyone into an 18% tip, regardless of service, is poor form. I realize some people never tip, and that certainly isn't fair by any means to the servers - but what about folks on a budget? Some families may not be able to affore 18% on every meal - and it's unkind to force them to. I think more and more folks are going to bring granola and trail mix into the parks...

[LibertyTreeGal]

I'm a big tipper too, and I hate this!! I prefer to reserve the right to tip more or less based on the quality of service...

[Tink&Goofy]

I don't get it. They must have a really strong servers union or something. I have never heard of an automatic tip for even small parties. So...they eliminate the tip under the DDP and lower the price $1. Then they make the 18% an AUTOMATIC addition?
We were considering the DDE or DDP on our next visit, but we may just go cheap, and skip it all together. I tip well for good service, but don't want to be forced to tip for poor service. What incentive is this for the servers to provide good service when they know they will get a decent tip automatically? I'm kind of disgusted with the whole dining issue at WDW at the moment....can you tell?

[Dsnygirl]

I don't get it. They must have a really strong servers union or something. I have never heard of an automatic tip for even small parties. So...they eliminate the tip under the DDP and lower the price $1. Then they make the 18% an AUTOMATIC addition?
We were considering the DDE or DDP on our next visit, but we may just go cheap, and skip it all together. I tip well for good service, but don't want to be forced to tip for poor service. What incentive is this for the servers to provide good service when they know they will get a decent tip automatically? I'm kind of disgusted with the whole dining issue at WDW at the moment....can you tell?
Yup - and I agree, as you can tell above!! I just sent Disney an e-mail about this... I wonder if enough of us complain, they may think twice... sigh... :(

[LibertyTreeGal]

Ditto, this is placing WDW further and further down the list of future vacation spots. It's like they are purposefully pushing people away :mad:

[Tinkerfreak]

I just had my first and only dinner at California Grill last week and the service was horrible. The minute I answered yes we are on the dining plan the waiter totally ignored us the entire time. We went a half hour without anything to drink and my DH had to call his name to get him to come to our table. In the mean time he was very attentive to all the other tables around us. He acted upset with us because we did not order wine. Some people are on medication and can not drink. He made us feel like we did not belong there. My young daughters kept asking us "Mommy why is our waiter ingnoring us"? He made my daughters feel so out of place that my youngest did not even dare to get up to go watc fireworks on the viewing area. We just could not wait to get out of there. I did speak to the manager and he refunded us our 2 ts credits a piece. I really think it was because we were on the dining plan and he was guaranteed a good tip. We had all looked forward to this dinner ever since I had booked it and the girls were so excited that we all got really dressed up and he totally ruined the experience for us.

[IloveDisney71]

I'm a big tipper too, and I hate this!! I prefer to reserve the right to tip more or less based on the quality of service...

I totally agree. We are big tippers for good service. However, if the service is bad I adjust the tip accordingly.
Thank goodness we are going in December!!!

[Hammer]

I don't get it. They must have a really strong servers union or something. I have never heard of an automatic tip for even small parties. So...they eliminate the tip under the DDP and lower the price $1. Then they make the 18% an AUTOMATIC addition?
We were considering the DDE or DDP on our next visit, but we may just go cheap, and skip it all together. I tip well for good service, but don't want to be forced to tip for poor service. What incentive is this for the servers to provide good service when they know they will get a decent tip automatically? I'm kind of disgusted with the whole dining issue at WDW at the moment....can you tell?

This move is all Disney, not the union. The union deal was struck a couple of months ago and the issue which they had was with Dining Plan tip and that non-Disney owned restaurants on the Dining Plan were not giving the full 18% gratuity to their staff, as this was a loophole in the old contract.

What I think is going to happen is while we will be charged an 18% gratuity, this is not what the wait staff will receive (minus taxes being taken out). As the new contract has been ratified, management can pull this maneuver and use it to appease the non-Disney restaurants to recoup the "lost revenue" of accepting the Dining Plan.

It's a real shady move by Disney management, in my opinion.

[DVC Mike]

I think servers were getting stiffed their fair tip for several reasons:

some folks were calculating their tip on the discounted DDE cost, and not the cost before the discount
some folks are from other countries where the tip is automatically included, and thus were not leaving a tip

[TheRustyScupper]

Ditto, this is placing WDW further and further down the list of future vacation spots. It's like they are purposefully pushing people away :mad:


1) Just another case of nickel-and-dime from Roger Ogre.
2) I can't believe what I am about to say.
3) I want Eisner back.
4) He might have been overbearing, but he cared about the guest!

[SurferStitch]

According to this 18% will be added to ALL transactions that you use the DDE card on.....which means that at some CS locations you'll be tipping WHOM?!?!??!

Disney is telling us now that they'll give us a 20% discount on our bill, but 18% will now go to the servers!! Sort of negates the whole idea of having the card!!

I'm not happy........:mad::mad::mad:

The DDE card can ONLY be used at TS restaurants...not CS. And no, the tipping policy is only for TS restaurants, not CS.

As for the 18% auto tip, no biggie. Even if you got the 20% DDE discount, you STILL need to tip your servers like always. The DDE card doesn't cover your tip, so to us, the DDE card basically meant a free tip to us. It's a great deal, especially since alcohol is included. You are still saving 20% on the bill....nothing is negated.

I mean, you're more than welcome to pay full price for the meal PLUS a tip, or you can pay 20% less for the meal plus a tip. Which sounds better?

We always tip on the full meal price, though, not the discounted DDE price.

Really, there's no reason to be mad about it.

[KylesMom]

The DDE card can ONLY be used at TS restaurants...not CS. Not entirely true. The DDE is good at resorts which do not have "sit down" eateries (think Value resorts). I'm sure it will change with the addition of Tusker house as a TS, but because there was no TS in AK, you used to be able to get the DDE discount at Pizzafari.

[Tink&Goofy]

As for the 18% auto tip, no biggie. Even if you got the 20% DDE discount, you STILL need to tip your servers like always. The DDE card doesn't cover your tip, so to us, the DDE card basically meant a free tip to us. It's a great deal, especially since alcohol is included. You are still saving 20% on the bill....nothing is negated.

I mean, you're more than welcome to pay full price for the meal PLUS a tip, or you can pay 20% less for the meal plus a tip. Which sounds better?

We always tip on the full meal price, though, not the discounted DDE price.

Really, there's no reason to be mad about it.
I agree....IF you have good service. But what if the service is poor? I am STILL required to leave the full 18%! I always base the tip on the FULL price (without discounts), so that is not the issue, but now I am required to tip the same for good service, or for poor. That makes no sense.

[IndianaDisneyFan]

I just called WDW dining. We are going in January and if the gratuity is included at all TS restaurants I will not go with the dining plan. Imagine the bad service if the servers get an automatic tip from every table. I have no problem tipping 18-20% if the service is good. The gentleman on the phone said that gratuity is only included with parties of 6 or more. I hope that this rumor is not true. It is already bad enough Splash Mtn and Spaceship Earth are closed. I am trying to be positive. I love Disney, but it has to be affordable.

[mudpuppysmom]

I fully understand how the card works--you get 20% off your full bill. My point is that Disney is now telling us that use the DDE that we HAVE to tip out 18%.

As some people have said, what if you don't get good service?

We are good tippers (20-25% ....25 if DH is really feeling generous and the servers have been exceptional), but now for DIsney to tell us they are going to get an 18% tip no matter what is just not what I like.

[pooh0601]

They are probably doing this because people were tipping on their "discounted" meal price on the DDE card, and not on the price of the bill BEFORE the 20% was taken off.

But think about it..you as a server are now GUARANTEED 18% tip. What motivation is there for you to do a better/worse job? Seems to me like our service is going to diminish GREATLY at the TS restaurants. I know the server we had a Cape May in Oct. left a LOT to be desired.

Can anyone confirm that this "automatic" 18% tip is ONLY for DDE card members, or is it for EVERYONE who dines at a TS restaurant, even if you are "self-paying"?

Needless to say if this only applies to DDE cardholders than I will not be renewing next year. My current card is good thru Dec. 2007.

[Deesdisney]

Well I guess there will be more room at the sit down rest. If this is true I will not do sit down meals that much. 2 will be the max. I went last Dec. and used the ddp and enjoyed it. This time in Feb. we will not be using it due to the fact that we never finished our meals. But if they start the automatic grat. then I will be using the cs more often. I would rather use the money that I would be tipping for terrible service for something that would make me happy. However if there was some way to get my tip money back after the bad service I would think about it again.

[TBY2225]

I am not happy about this as well, but I was concerned in Jan when the new Dining plan goes into effect how many unhonest people would "forget" or act like the didn't know about the changes and not leave a tip at all. It is all so confusing and I was wondering what Disney was going to do about all the people who wouldn't tip or wouldn't tip the 18%. I think they should have left it alone personally!

[Tygger7]

I just called WDW dining. We are going in January and if the gratuity is included at all TS restaurants I will not go with the dining plan. Imagine the bad service if the servers get an automatic tip from every table. I have no problem tipping 18-20% if the service is good. The gentleman on the phone said that gratuity is only included with parties of 6 or more. I hope that this rumor is not true. It is already bad enough Splash Mtn and Spaceship Earth are closed. I am trying to be positive. I love Disney, but it has to be affordable.

I too just called WDW dining and asked if this applied to everyone (not on the DDE plan/card). The CM checked with a supervisor, and the answer was, "Yes. Each TS meal will be charged 18%, regardless of party size. If you are on the Dining plan, you will have to pay this amount out of pocket." I asked what would happen if we received bad service, and was told that those situations would have to be handled on a case by case basis with the restaurant manager. This *****. If they wanted to "automatically" include the tip (again), why not just raise the price of the dining plan?? Instead, they "drop" the price by a whopping $1, exclude the gratituity, then turn around and re-add the gratituity!! So, we're seriously considering dropping the dining plan all together now and just doing counter service meals...yuck. I'm not a happy camper. :mad:

[Hammer]

Can anyone confirm that this "automatic" 18% tip is ONLY for DDE card members, or is it for EVERYONE who dines at a TS restaurant, even if you are "self-paying"?

Needless to say if this only applies to DDE cardholders than I will not be renewing next year. My current card is good thru Dec. 2007.

From Jason's post:


We would also like to inform you that the Walt Disney World® Resort will be implementing an across property policy change regarding gratuity at all food and beverage locations. Effective January 1, 2008, 18% gratuity will be added to all transactions, regardless of party size. Thank you for your continued support.

Although the announcment was not clear, Reservations Cast have confirmed that the new automatic Gratuity policy only applies to Table Service locations.

This sounds like all table service restaurants will be automatically charging a 18% gratuity. Now that does not mean the wait staff will see the full gratuity (see my example above).

[DisneyTwinsMommy]

That is definitely not right! They are basically raising the price of each meal by 18% and there is nothing you can do about it. If that is the case they might as well really raise prices by 18% and eliminate tips, it's the same thing they are doing now! Tipping should be determined by the diner, not the management. Also, I do NOT feel that tipping should be 18% at buffets where I have to get my own food, sure I appreciate you getting my drink, but really... I got up and got my own food! The nickel and dime-ing that is going on at Disney is getting out of hand. :mad:

[DisneyTwinsMommy]

The post that Figment added does NOT say it is only TS locations, is this charge going to be applied to CS and even quick-service locations?????

"We would also like to inform you that the Walt Disney World® Resort will be implementing an across property policy change regarding gratuity at all food and beverage locations. Effective January 1, 2008, 18% gratuity will be added to all transactions, regardless of party size. Thank you for your continued support. "

[WheresWalt]

Let me say, I heard about this little bombshell this last trip but was sincerely hoping my server was off base. She apparently knew exactly what she was talking abt.. and she didn't like it either. She KNOWS this will mean fewer butts in seats at her restaurant at the end of the day and that means fewer in tips.

We are excellent tippers and in the end, this will probably mean less in tips to our servers since we won't want to fiddle with the end total.

But then we will also be giving 18% to the terrible servers too.. like the one we had at Tony's when hubbie had to get up TWICE to refill his own drink. Really burns me that THAT server will get the same tip as some of the fantastic server's we have had!! And we have had some fantastic servers.

sO.. if you would normally pay your bill in cash and thus leave the tip for the waitperson on the table at the end of the meal separate from the bill, meaning of course that the ENTIRE tip is meant for the server, could it be that now Disney could easily skim off a percentage of the server's tip from the transaction since the gratuity is included in the bill no matter the size of the party.

I guess this little boondoggle was just easier than raising the price of food and the servers will get the blame.

[DVC Mike]

I bet the DDE team is going to feel the heat for their poorly worded communique -- I guess they didn't think how it might be interpreted and that it would go beyond DDE card holders.

The boards have been buzzing all day over this one email, and I'm sure the phone lines to Disney dining were busy too. The CM's on the dining line may not have even known about the DDE email!

[Figment!]

The post that Figment added does NOT say it is only TS locations, is this charge going to be applied to CS and even quick-service locations?????This is actually answered at the bottom of the same post.


Although the announcment was not clear, Reservations Cast have confirmed that the new automatic Gratuity policy only applies to Table Service locations.

[magicofdisney]

This complaint about automatic gratuity has been around for awhile (at least with DDP customers). But now that it's effecting DDE users, it seems to have taken on a new life. I'm not accusing everyone, but some have either had their head buried in the sand, or they just didn't care until it effected them. For the lucky few who've never had their service effected by an automatic gratuity, YAY for you, but for the rest of us, it stinks.

[SurferStitch]

Sorry, I forgot about places that don't have TS restaurants...we did use the DDE card there (like at Pop), but not in AK. We were actually turned down there (Tusker House and Flame Tree) and couldn't use our DDE card in 2005.....not sure why. :shrug:

I looked at a couple other very informative Disney info sites, and they stated the automatic gratuity will be applied at TS locations only.

I've never had bad service at WDW, so I guess that's why I don't really care about the automatic 18% gratuity. I honestly can't EVER remember having bad service at all, even last year in the midst of the DDP when many here complained of bad service. So, I was more than happy to give 18% on the plan plus additional if the server really deserved it, and probably still will be.

I'm one of the lucky who has not seen any downturn in service or food quality since the advent of the DDP, so I just can't complain. Guess that's a good thing.

[azdisneymom]

I just read on another site that beginning 1/1/08 Disney will automatically add 18% gratuity to all TS meals, regardless of party size. Is this true? If so how does that affect the Dining Plan? :confused:

[Hammer]

I'm going to close this thread as this is already being discussed here (http://intercot.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=119983).

[Figment!]

See Disney Dining Experience Policy Change & New Property Wide Gratuity Policy (http://www.intercot.com/discussion/showthread.php?p=1469963#post1469963) where this topic is already under discussion.

To keep discussion in one place, let's all follow along there.

Thank you.

[CleveSJM]

FACT: It's not a gratuity if it is automatically added. It is a service charge.

Disney, don't call it a gratuity. You insult our intelligence.

Seems like it's going to be much simplier to get an ADR in 2008... I won't be taking any...

[WheresWalt]

I called into Disney Dining to ask some questions. I was very respectful but firm.

1) Does the automatic 18% gratuity apply to only TS or CS as well?

TS only.

2) If the service from the server is unsatisfactory, what recourse does a diner now have?

Talk to the manager

3) And the manager can fix this problem?

Yes.

4) Will the servers receive all of the 18% gratuity?

I would assume so but they haven't discussed this with us.


I then voiced my complaint concerning the fact that gratuity by it's very nature should be determined by the person paying the bill and receiving the service and that more than likely some of the excellent servers at Disney will actually realize less in tips due to the facts that those who are more generous for excellent service will not wish to go through the extra hassle of adding more to a completed bill.

I then thanked her for her time and told her to have a good evening.

[ElenitaB]

Let the party decide the tip, and make the server work for the cash. I truly believe servers are more attentive to tables not using the Disney Dining Plan, and now folks with the Disney Dining Experience card will be stiffed.
I honestly don't feel that I've ever been "stiffed" by a CM when using the DDP (though I am still waiting for my second lemonade :rolleyes:).


Ditto, this is placing WDW further and further down the list of future vacation spots. It's like they are purposefully pushing people away :mad:
It's going to take a lot more than an 18% gratuity or "service charge" to keep me away! I normally tip at least 15% so this won't be a problem for me nor will it make me think twice about yearly visits to WDW.

[caryrae]

We should also look at how this will make the wait staff that do an excellent job everyday feel, now they see that the wait staff members who don't do as good can get the same in tips as they do. Isn't it possible that the ones that do a great job may sluff off a little more since there is no insentive to do a great job anymore unless people give the great ones another few % more tip?

What if our everyday neighbor resturants (i.e. Applebees, Red Lobster, ect) did something like this, would you still go to that resturant? I know some do with larger parties but what if they did it for any size party too?

[KylesMom]

I would assume that if you are receiving stellar service, you can tip more than the 18% automatically added on. That is just the starting point of where the "tip" (and I use that definition loosely) begins.

Not so much for the DDP folks, but more for the DDE people . . . money is changing hands regardless, so it wouldn't be difficult to bump that 18% up to 20-25% on the final bill for excellent service.

Last trip, we received nothing but the best of servers and we usually tipped 20-25% at each TS location. I should also add that good service is incredibly important for us to enjoy our meal - it also determines in a big way if we will repeat that dining location again next trip.

[JPL]

A Tip is a motivator for good service.

How does an automatic 18% gaurantee me good service??

To me this is taking all the power out of guests hands when it comes to dining and service. I am on vacation and don't want to waste my time talking to a manager to get my 18% back if the service was awful. And the answer you are going to get from the manager is sorry this is Disney's Policy nothing I can do for you.

I for one will be looking at heading off site more for dining options when I can. At least I know it wasn't booked solid 6 months in advance and server is still working for a tip not getting a gauranteed 18% for doing as little as humanly possible.

What's next pay for the dining plan and Disney tells you where and when you have to eat.

[WishingStar2006]

I agree that they have just changed gratuity into a service charge....and it's just another bad "vibe" that we are getting from Disney.

But I still have not seen a difinitive answer....does this just apply to those using the DDE or will those using the "new DDP" have it added as well? What about the people who are not on any dining plan...maybe not even staying on site....they go to a restaurant to pay out of pocket and THEY WILL AUTOMATICALLY HAVE AN 18% Gratuity added???? That is really, really, really poor buiness for Disney...I mean really, most of us tip 18%+ anyway, it's just a matter that the server will not be "serving" to earn the tip....he or she just has to be breathing to earn the tip.....why don't they just pay them a decent wage and do away with tips all together!!!

I won't stay away from WDW....that would never happen......BUT, it will be counter service for us if not just on principal alone!

Glad we're going in December...the last of the "good dining plan" that not only included gratuity but dessert AND an appetizer....those were the days, hugh?

[dlpmikki]

If the 18% 'gratuity/service charge' is just DDE I will think twice about whether to get it next year.

If the 18% 'gratuity/service charge' is all Table service locations I will be eating a lot less in Disney. The service I have had over the last few years has been getting a lot worse from Disney restaurants and does not warrant their price levels let alone an 18% tip on top. Maybe always renting a car will be a cost saving in future!

[Hammer]

I called into Disney Dining to ask some questions. I was very respectful but firm.

1) Does the automatic 18% gratuity apply to only TS or CS as well?

TS only.

2) If the service from the server is unsatisfactory, what recourse does a diner now have?

Talk to the manager

3) And the manager can fix this problem?

Yes.

4) Will the servers receive all of the 18% gratuity?

I would assume so but they haven't discussed this with us.


I then voiced my complaint concerning the fact that gratuity by it's very nature should be determined by the person paying the bill and receiving the service and that more than likely some of the excellent servers at Disney will actually realize less in tips due to the facts that those who are more generous for excellent service will not wish to go through the extra hassle of adding more to a completed bill.

I then thanked her for her time and told her to have a good evening.


First, thank you for posting the contents of your call! Regarding question 4, I don't think the Dining reservation CMs will be provided with that much information on tip calculation differences for WDW owned vs. non-WDW owned restaurants (most World Showcase restaurants, Wolfgang Puck, etc.), so he/she gave you the best answer she could. To get that answer, we probably need to ask the actual wait staff. From when I spoke with waiters on my trip in October, you have to ask them the question point blank (just like the poster did to the reservations CM) as they can not volunteer the information.

[ljv1975]

Wow, I am really bothered by all of this as well. I worked as a server in college and DH is a chef so we always tip around 20% unless the service is absolutely horrible. I just don't appreciate anyone forcing me to tip 18%. The word tips basically means "To Insure Prompt Service". When someone knows they are getting the moeny regardless of how they treat the customer how does that insure prompt and friendly service??

I have a trip booked in March 2008. It just so happens to be our very first trip to Disney and I don't want it to be spoiled by a series of miserable dining experiences. Hopefully the service won't be as bad as I fear, but when people know they're getting a fairly decent tip regardless of the work they put in, what else can you expect??

Should I try to cancel our deluxe dining plan, or just cross my fingers and hope for the best?

[mickeysworld]

I'm a big tipper too, and I hate this!! I prefer to reserve the right to tip more or less based on the quality of service...

:ditto: Don't like this at all! We typically tip at least 20% (before the discount) at TS meals and we typically have good service, however on that rare occasion when we have bad/poor service, to be "forced" to pay a gratuity we feel is undeserved just feels wrong! Will make me rethink my TS ressies on principle alone!

I should probably know this but can someone
post an email/snail mail address where we can write to voice our complaints?

[January-2007]

I don't think I could have ever been more glad than I am right now that we had our wonderful annual pass year this past year, and not going forward. This is outrageous. If this is still policy in a couple of years when we take another trip it will definately change how many meals we pay for and how many we will eat at the villa. It's nuts. Won't stop me from going to 'Ohana though! :secret:

[amorillo]

Wow! This really blows my mind! First, I'm a DDE card holder... and did not receive this email?? Wonder why? I am also a big tipper... especially when in Disney! My DH has to tell me to stop! :) but somehow it just doesn't seem right to HAVE TO tip big. :unsure:

Will this new "gratuity policy" effect those using the dining plan also?

[Piglet822]

The email was sent to everyone who has the DDE card.

I always tip 20%, or more if the service is exceptional.

I guess I'm going to save 2% and complain to the manager if I get poor service.

I did not receive this email either and I am a DDE member.

And I agree with you Mike, the server is going to be cheated out of 2% because I also usually tip 20% or more but it's doubtful I will add a few extra bucks now unless the service goes above and beyond.

[Maleficent's Dad]

Now I know that Disney has an army of attorneys to handle all legal aspects of their operations. However, I seriously question the legality of this move.

There was a case in New York City about 3 years ago where a man refused to pay the mandatory 18% because his party size was large (10 people or so).

The restaurant had him arrested as he left the establishment and refused to pay the entire "bill." The case went to court and HE WON. In other words, the courts sided with the customer - a gratuity is to be left at the customer's discretion. It is NOT up to the restaurant to pre-determine the amount of tip.

There were some legalities involved, namely the "naming" of the so-called gratuity. If it's called a "tip" or a "gratuity," it cannot be legally added to the bill. If it's called a "service charge," then it can be added at the restaurant's discretion - as long as advertised beforehand.

It will be interesting to see how this plays out in WDW. :unsure:

[Samtastic]

I might be a jerk for saying this, but if that's the "tip" they want me to add, then I won't add a penny more. I know this may be punishing the servers but I'm a good tipper and tips are meant "to insure proper service." I don't enjoy being forced to tip a standard amount. It should be up to the individuals. I don't know how else to make a statement than by what disney understands, with my money.

[crazykids]

just read on another popular site that it has been confirmed that the automatic gratuity will be added on at all TS restaurants regardless if you are using the DDE card or not.

[Maleficent's Dad]

I just emailed Disney expressing my dissatisfaction.
For those of you who wish to convey your thoughts, here's the email address:

[email protected]

I figure the more they hear from us, the better our chances...

[lovedisneyworld]

I have a reservation already made for August 2008 and have received my total amount that is due including the basic dining plan. With this new 18% "service charge" added, where will this show up on my bill? Will it be added to my room and I will pay it at check out or what? Or will I be getting a new bill?

[JPL]

The service charge will be added to each individual check at the TS restaurants.

[Dsnygirl]

Okay, I have read through this entire thread, even posted on it earlier - and one thing still does not stand out as clear to me. Is it only the DDE and possibly DDP that is being affected, or are they going to charge a cash-paying guest an automatic 18% at TS spots as well? The post by Jason makes it sound like it's every TS spot... but the letter only went out to DDE folks, and was worded as a DDE issue. We've never done the DDP, as we're happy w/ brkfst in the room, trail mix and yogurt in our backpack and the occas. CS meal - but we've always enjoyed a good TS meal in the evening. So, it never made sense to pay for the DDP - we'd never get our $$ out of it. But to think they'd automatically make it mandatory across the board?? Does anyone know the definitive answer to this? :(

[JPL]

From my understanding it will be at every TS restaurant no matter how you are paying for it.

[Dsnygirl]

From my understanding it will be at every TS restaurant no matter how you are paying for it.
Well then, I guess it doesn't really have anything to do w/ getting the DDE or DDP or not... it's all about service. And although I don't mind tipping 20% or more for good service, I sure don't like the idea of tipping 18% across the board, regardless of the service. All I can imagine is that service will definitely suffer, unless the managers really take a firm stand, and that's too bad. :(

[FlaTinkRAMESAM]

when I made my ressie for CRT last week I was charged 43.68 (or something like that... it was 43 something) and I was like, that is a lot of tax on a $35.99 lunch. So I called and the rep said that gratuity was already applied... soooo, it is for anyone, not just DDE.

I am like a few others on here, while I don't like the fact that I am automatically being charged for a tipped service before the service has been performed, it is going to save me a few bucks as I am a fairly generous tipper if the server is deserving... but believe me I will be the first to complain if I don't feel a server has earned that 18%...

[hubbyofadisneyholic]

I wonder how the servers feel about this?
Not only is this likely to result in smaller tips in many cases, but since the tip is being documented the servers won't be able pocket any tips without claiming them as taxable income.

I just don't see how this is to anyone's benefit in the long term...:confused:

[thejens]

I'll bet you anything that the union representing the servers had something to do with this. It really is making Harry Potter land seem more appealing to me. It seems Disney considers customers to be merely wallets to be looted. As long as we put up with it they will continue to increase the prices and lessen the benefits. I am beginning to root for the competition.

[Hammer]

While it may seem like this is the union's fault, but management made this change after the union ratified the new contract. If this had been in the new contract, the Sentinel would have reported it. I think this was a management decision, done after the contract was ratified so there could not be any opposition. Disney wants people to blame the union.

I confirmed while there last month that many restaurants were not giving the 18% gratuity that was charged, but only a percentage of it. After taxes, this came out to be about 10%. The restaurant pocketed the difference as a way to recoup money from the Disney Dining Plan. I am not sure that the wait staff will actually get this 18% gratuity. All Disney is saying is that they are charging it.

[JPL]

I confirmed while there last month that many restaurants were not giving the 18% gratuity that was charged, but only a percentage of it. After taxes, this came out to be about 10%. The restaurant pocketed the difference as a way to recoup money from the Disney Dining Plan. I am not sure that the wait staff will actually get this 18% gratuity. All Disney is saying is that they are charging it.

Great so now we will listen to Server sob stories on top of the extra 18% :rolleyes:

[WheresWalt]

If I am being charged an extra 18% and Disney is calling it a "tip" or "gratuity" FOR THE SERVER, I sure as heck expect them to give all of it to the server (minus taxes) and not skim some off the top as a means of producing another income stream to "offset" this or "upgrade" that at the expense of both their guests and their employees.

[Catwillow]

Well, Unless there is some special reason as to me eating dinner "in the park" (ie..Candlelight Dinner Pkg)I will most likely find other eating arrangements. I for one refuse to pay out a "tip / gratuity" for services that most likely will not meet that standard. In all the dining experiences I have had @ WDW there have been very few times I would have left an 18% tip -- and it had very little to do with the quality of food. Rather it had to do with the quality of service, drinks not being refilled, portions of orders not being put on the table, condiments not brought when asked for multiple times, attitudes given, place settings not provided, the list could go on.

It's a shame that they feel they need to resort to 'forcing' people to pay this "tip / gratuity" instead of leaving it up to their own discretion.

And I'm sorry but a dinner that runs $80 (that's 2 meals at $25 each plus a drink each and dessert each) would be a tip of about $15. You had better be doing some GREAT serving to warrant that!!! Especially if there is only 2 of us.

[JPL]

Another thing I thought of is buffets where tips are traditionally lower than full service restaurants. Why should someone who brings me a drink and then leaves get 18%.

[CPT Trips]

I'm not thrilled with this. Still I wonder if we are all such good tippers and WDW normally provides excellent service, where is the problem.
My plan is to always inform the manager if there is poor service, before the meal is over. No sense waiting and stewing . . . plus I think that will correct poor servers quicker than them just thinking some of us are cheapskates.
Waitstaff at Disney buffets do a lot more than provide beverage service. But I do question them getting the same percentage tip as full service waitstaff.

[Ian]

Now I know that Disney has an army of attorneys to handle all legal aspects of their operations. However, I seriously question the legality of this move.

There was a case in New York City about 3 years ago where a man refused to pay the mandatory 18% because his party size was large (10 people or so).

The restaurant had him arrested as he left the establishment and refused to pay the entire "bill." The case went to court and HE WON. In other words, the courts sided with the customer - a gratuity is to be left at the customer's discretion. It is NOT up to the restaurant to pre-determine the amount of tip.

There were some legalities involved, namely the "naming" of the so-called gratuity. If it's called a "tip" or a "gratuity," it cannot be legally added to the bill. If it's called a "service charge," then it can be added at the restaurant's discretion - as long as advertised beforehand.

It will be interesting to see how this plays out in WDW. :unsure:You're absolutely correct. You cannot legally force people to pay a gratuity. You can add on a service charge, if you choose, but it must be labeled as such.

You can rest assured that my first meal at Disney where they attempt to force me to pay an 18% "tip" will result in a scene. I'm going to refuse to pay it and see what happens.


Another thing I thought of is buffets where tips are traditionally lower than full service restaurants. Why should someone who brings me a drink and then leaves get 18%.I will never tip someone 18% at a buffet. Period.

They can send the Mickey Police to drag me out of their resort and I'll be at the offices of the Orlando Sentinel quicker than you can say the words "bad press."

[luvdiznee]

So, if you are one of the ones who got on the Bounceback offer, where you are already getting the DP for free, then it would make sense to upgrade to the DDP to avoid all this and get a lot more for your money? :mickey:

[Dsnygirl]

I just emailed Disney expressing my dissatisfaction.
For those of you who wish to convey your thoughts, here's the email address:

[email protected]

I figure the more they hear from us, the better our chances...

Thanks for the link - I just did, as well. I wish they could understand that it's not the tipping we mind - it's the fact that our right to decide who deserves 18% is being taken away from us, and that since many of us already receive less than stellar service on occasion, what we foresee is even worse service, at a higher cost. Not what Disney wants, I would think! :(

Here is the letter, if anyone is interested...

[To Whom It May Concern:

I am writing in response to the news that has come out regarding your change in the tipping policy at Table Service locations throughout your parks.

I think it is very wrong that you are now forcing your guests to pay the waitstaff an automatic 18% gratuity, regardless of the service rendered. We have often had wonderful service, and have rewarded our server with a 20% gratuity, or more. But similarly, we have had poor service at times, and have felt justified in leaving the server 10% or so, based on the fact that drinks were never received, condiments forgotten, etc. I think this choice should be left to your guests, and that it is presumptuous of Disney, as a company, to assume that every service rendered deserves an automatic tip to be involved.

I have heard that if we feel that service is below the standard, we can certainly complain to the manager and have it taken care of. But who, really, wants to do that on vacation? Do you really think your guests want to stand in line and complain about something while they're enjoying a "magical" vacation? Kind-of puts a damper on the mood, so to speak. Mind you, we'll do it - but we'd rather have the choice of making our opinion known directly to the server through the tip we choose to leave.

Please re-consider this new policy change - I belong to a very large Disney fan-based website, and this is the biggest news on there right now. People who truly LOVE Disney and travel there 2-3 times/year are angry, feeling dis-illusioned by Disney right now, and I think it is very telling that folks are feeling "used" by this new policy, and are considering off-site locations for their meals now. People who are good tippers, who love the Table Service locations, and would normally be more than happy to tip well for good service. No one is upset by the idea of tipping - just the fact that Disney feels it can reserve the right to force our hand, and take away our choice in who deserves what.

Somehow, the fact that your staff deserves more power and respect for work not even done yet than the guests you say you love to have - that does not seem to have been Disney's way in the past. And I'm hoping, won't become Disney's new standard for the future.]

[LibertyTreeGal]

Here's mine....

To Whom it may Concern,

My family have been faithful Disney customers, we are about to take out third Disney trip in four years (and we always bring relatives), we stay at the Deluxe Resorts (Poly, Wilderness Lodge, Beach Club), we buy Park Hoppers, we do special events (like the Christmas Party), and we have always purchased the meal plan (silver plan or DDP).

I have already written to voice my opposition to the 2008 Dining Plan, where a $1 discount gives me the "advantage" of paying for my tip out of pocket, and takes away my appetizer but leaves me with a dessert I cannot eat for health reasons. I have also voiced my displeasure with the children's choices at many of the Table Service and all of the Counter Service locations, and having children be forced to eat junk food disguised as healthy meals. Now, I see the release that an 18% gratuity is being forced on me as well if I eat at a Table Service restaurant.

Rest assured, my husband and I are both in agreement that this is not only our last Walt Disney World Vacation, but also our last trip to the Orlando area as well unless significant changes are made to the way you are doing business (and yes I understand that it is a business). Airfare alone for our family costs a minimum of $1500, and frankly we can no longer afford your upgrades, especially when the goods rendered are in fact being downgraded.

I am not against tipping, in fact I tip a minimum of 20% unless service is bad, but as a customer, I reserve the right to withhold that generous of a tip if the service is bad. A gratuity is for good service in this country, the last time I looked, and is not a guarantee.

IT SIMPLY IS NOT MY JOB TO PAY YOUR EMPLOYEES OUT OF MY OWN POCKET.

If you cannot afford to pay your employees a sufficient wage, then you need to figure something else out, but expecting me to do it by adding onto my bill at the end is dishonest. Either do away with all meal plans, or the free dining, or whatever you have to do, but your recent courses of action smack of a dishonesty and disregard for the guest that shame the memory of Walt Disney.

[Ian]

I wrote them, too. This is one of the biggest PR disaster moves I've ever seen them make.

Who the heck thought THIS was a good idea? And if so, have they been fired yet??

[Tekneek]

Good luck with this. The skeptical side of me says this is just another method they came up with to please Wall Street. Wall Street only wants to know that revenue and profits continue to grow. They don't really care how anymore.

[LibertyTreeGal]

*sigh* Didn't I see somewhere that they had record profits last quarter??

[NJDad]

Just back from France, where they have this policy at some eateries-a little confusing when you don't speak the language to figure it out, wonder if Disney will have several languages explaining or naming the charge on the bills.

[Tekneek]

*sigh* Didn't I see somewhere that they had record profits last quarter??

And if they don't get bigger next time, I bet Wall Street drops the stock a bit. I won't bet much, because I don't gamble, but that seems to be the trend. Record profits mean you should just keep breaking the bank. There's not much logic or common sense used in this economy. The concept of 'enough' is lost on many.

Basically, I don't think it is out of kindness towards the CMs that they are changing this policy. There is some other reason for it. My first thought is that the need to feed the Street is requiring them to find other ways to squeeze some money out. I suspect that, in the mind of somebody internally, they are "losing money" on every discounted meal.

[ljv1975]

I have also sent an e-mail. I'm not sure it will do much good, but it's worth a try!

[wonderalice23]

Thanks for the email address, I sent one as well. This really burns me up....I really want to choose what tip I give. Usually I do tip about 20%...but I want the choice back! I want to be in control of this and not told what to tip. I really hope they reconsider this.

[Tekneek]

I really want to choose what tip I give. Usually I do tip about 20%...but I want the choice back! I want to be in control of this and not told what to tip. I really hope they reconsider this.

Bypassing the issue that regardless of what they call it, it isn't really a "tip" or "gratuity" unless it is given voluntarily and absent of any demand. This looks like a surcharge on all DDE holders disguised as something else in hopes you will just accept it.

[d_m_n_n]

I dropped Disney a "friendly" little note this morning. :thedolls: Now I'm rethinking my dining for December. I better visit the restaurants now because I don't think we'll be eating TS on future visits. :(

[jodijo]

I read somewhere that tips was an acronym for
TO INSURE PROPER SERVICE.

I understand this to mean that if the server insures proper service, they will be rewarded by the customer at the end of the meal.

By adding tips in, I guess Disney does not want to insure that its customers receive proper service at TS restaurants. I will not be eating at any TS restaurants on our next trip. It will be CS all the way.

[CPT Trips]

If tips is "TO INSURE PROPER SERVICE," then why do you give it at the end of the meal? We all know you can't insure your car or house after it is damaged.

Stealing a line from my local newspaper - is there anyone who does not think the way service employees are compensated in this country needs reform? I for one would like to see servers compensated fairly by there employer, the cost built in to prices and tipping eliminated. But that will never happen . . . except in places like WDW and cruise ships where there is a captive audience.

So, I'll continue to tip for meals and other services where it is an expected part of the compensation package, pay the service charge (by whatever name) where it is imposed when I choose to patronize that establishment and get on with enjoying my vacation.

Page 5 - out of here at 6

[Tekneek]

Stealing a line from my local newspaper - is there anyone who does not think the way service employees are compensated in this country needs reform? I for one would like to see servers compensated fairly by there employer, the cost built in to prices and tipping eliminated.

I can see that. I don't think that you only get good service because of the carrot (the tip) dangling at the end of a stick (the payment at the end of the meal). You get good service because the server likes their job and enjoys providing good service. This is far better than the confrontational situation that can develop when the 'tip' is based on the price of items ordered. It's why servers may attach a 'cheap' label to people who order water to drink, don't order appetizers, don't order desserts, or even choose to have an appetizer as an entree...

[Ian]

I suspect that, in the mind of somebody internally, they are "losing money" on every discounted meal.If that's the case, and I agree it probably is, then just do away with the discount for heaven's sake.

Why pull a stunt like this that's guaranteed to do nothing but anger everyone??

[mudpuppysmom]

DH and I discussed this "issue" last night after I got off the net and for once he was VERY animated about how Disney can dictate how HE tips! I mentioned buffets and while we still tip pretty well, we don't tip the same that we do at TS establishments. Let's take Crystal Palace and Narcoossees for example. These are two places that we have gone. Do I for one minute think that I am going to get the same service at both places??!!?! No we don't get the same level of service, not EVEN close! We have had the same server at Narc's twice and we like him, we trust his recommendations and he has ALWAYS been on top of our meal and our needs without us even throwing a glance out (like, where are our refills on wine/drinks? --Never has this been an issue there!). Now at Crystal Palace, DS and I went there once for dinner. The server was NONEXISTENT! We got one beverage (and I drink a TON of water). Our empty plates were never cleared and our bill was presented after flagging him down! Did this server deserve the same tip at our server at Narcoossees? Not even in the same league if you ask me!

Now, Disney is telling all of us that when we sit down we are going to be assured prompt service in exchange for an 18% gratuity/tip.

I think not. I HIGHLY think not.

I believe this is going to come down to a personal pride thing with MANY of the servers. They will do their job the same way they have been doing their jobs and hope that maybe we'll leave an additional tip for them in excess of the 18% (which we will if our service warrants it). I also will be speaking to the manager at Biergarten when we eat there about this tip charge unless the service there warrants what we feel is worth 18% (which at buffets we typcially tip 15-18% anyway, so it won't be that much difference).

Sorry for more ranting, but this is just like being robbed, and by Disney no less, the makers of all the magic!

This already has DH saying that "see why we rent a car......now we can go elsewhere and eat dinner, we don't have to stay in the parks to eat, and this tip charge just cemented it for me." For him to say let's go offsite -- which to him is actually a hassle to leave, get in the car, decide where we're going to eat and then wait for a table -- it's just not his style, but I guess he's willing to change!

[GoinGoofyPlanninThisTrip]

So, if you are one of the ones who got on the Bounceback offer, where you are already getting the DP for free, then it would make sense to upgrade to the DDP to avoid all this and get a lot more for your money? :mickey:Avoid what? Even with the DDP your party (regardless of size) will be automatically charged the 18% "tip".

Apparently over $800 million in profits last quarter wasn't quite enough!

I'm with you Ian...worst PR move in a long time. I don't have a degree in PR, but I can see this isn't going to work.

[luvdiznee]

Avoid what? Even with the DDP your party (regardless of size) will be automatically charged the 18% "tip".

Apparently over $800 million in profits last quarter wasn't quite enough!



I just thought the TIP was already included with the Deluxe Dining Plan. :confused:

[JPL]

I suspect that, in the mind of somebody internally, they are "losing money" on every discounted meal.

There is no doubt that the restaurant division has to being showing fewer profits since the inception of DDP. But what might be being missed is the people spending more money other places. If you are paying Ract rates for rooms in order to get the DDP some of the profits are now showing up there. If you save on food using free dining or even the regular DDP plan you might buy a few more souvenirs and the extra profits are showing up there.
I mean let's do the simple math here the DDP is around $40 a day ( Ichose the round Number for easy Math)

CS average cost is around $10
So the plan money is down to $30
Snack Credit is worth $4
Plan Money is down to $26
Buffet at Boma is around $30 (Not including Tip) Around $36 including an 18% tip
that leaves a $10 deficit in what you would have paid OOP.
However if you had an AP and the rates for a room were $69 but you chose the DDP you would pay the Rack rate of $89-$109 which in fact would increase their profits $20-$40 but it would show up under hotel profits not restaurants. So again the extra profit is there just not showing in the restaurants bottom line.

[VAdizneefan]

I just emailed them too. Maybe there will be a change if enough people show them that this latest decision was insane. We can hope I guess. :(

[GoinGoofyPlanninThisTrip]

I just thought the TIP was already included with the Deluxe Dining Plan. :confused:It is currently, but it is not included starting in 2008.

[TinaAndGlenn]

With our upcoming trip to WDW the news of the 'tip hike' is not welcome news. The fact that Disney had record profits does not benefit the food servers at all, just the higher ups. For all of you voicing your views on how well you tip, there are probably many more people out there who tip poorly or not at all. These are people who have spoiled it for all of us, who believe in leaving a good tip. I am sure that this was not an easy decision for Disney to make, but they have raised theme park tickets for years. Do we get any more at the same theme park with each ticket increase? No, same rides, same parades, same parks. Take a look at the news people, those of us lucky enough to take our families on vacation should not complain. I'll even take you one step further...I work at a school with disabled kids. I am sure that any of their parents would trade problems with any of us for a day. Put the 'tip' issue into perspective.

[luvdiznee]

It is currently, but it is not included starting in 2008.

WOW...Thanks....:(

[Tekneek]

Do we get any more at the same theme park with each ticket increase? No, same rides, same parades, same parks.

Depending on how you think about it, you could easily say that you often get less with each ticket increase as more things seem to go away over time. I know there are fewer things to do in the parks currently than there was 6 years ago.


Take a look at the news people, those of us lucky enough to take our families on vacation should not complain. I'll even take you one step further...I work at a school with disabled kids. I am sure that any of their parents would trade problems with any of us for a day. Put the 'tip' issue into perspective.

No matter what is going on, there is almost always going to be somebody in a tougher situation than you. I'm not sure how that means you should be happy about other negative news items. I understand it isn't anything to completely freak out about, but to seem to say they should be accepted without comment is a bit misplaced for me.

[Hammer]

Here is the letter I sent (thanks Frank for posting the email address):

I have just read that an automatic 18% gratuity is to be added to every table service meal regardless of party size. I do not approve of this action. This is yet another move your company has made in regards to dining which I feel is only meant to increase the Disney Corporation’s profits. First you have an 18% gratuity included as part of the Dining Plan allowing companies which are not Disney owned be participants of this plan but allow them to not pass on the full 18% gratuity based on the full meal price, pocketing the difference, is wrong. If a restaurant could not apply the rules the same as Disney owned restaurants, THEY SHOULD NOT BE ALLOWED TO OPERATE ON PROPERTY.

Now, this new move. This was not ordered by the union, as I am sure you are going to try and spin. That contract has already been ratified and if this point was in there, the Sentinel would have included it in its coverage of the agreement long ago. I am pretty sure there isn’t any provision in the new contract that the workers will receive this entire 18% gratuity, as you thought to spring this after ratification. I noticed the way that the announcement was worded there is nothing that says the full 18% gratuity will be given to the wait staff, just that it will be charged. This is a calculated move by your corporation to increase your profits, not the wages of your workers.

I am an excellent tipper, but let me control the tip. It is very rare that I would give less than 18% at a traditional table service non-buffet restaurant, but let me make that decision.

[JPL]

Great Letter Christine

I have fired one of myself :thumbsup:

The only way we may see a change is if everyone this effects on the site also follows through with a letter. Let's all take 5 minutes out of the day and send one off :thumbsup:I'm sure if enough people from sites like this send in complaints we can at least Disney know we aren't happy.

[chick20679]

My, my, aren't we being miserly?
I mean, aren't we talking about $2-3 extra dollars for an average meal for a family of four? :confused:

I understand that it's frustrating to be 'told' what you 'have' to leave, but to quote another poster:


Stealing a line from my local newspaper - is there anyone who does not think the way service employees are compensated in this country needs reform?


If you really think about it, isn't 18% what you should be leaving anyway? If you recieve poor service - speak to the manager! That's what they're there for and trust me ~ they WANT to know if you've had a particularly miserable server.
If you get great service, leave extra, just as you always would have, and get on with enjoying your vacation. You ARE at Disney World after all!!! :mickey:

[jonsmom]

This policy doesnt really change a thing as far as the servers go....they will be guaranteed 18% tip regardless of the service, why would they give you service that was any different than with the tip included with the Dining Plan.

We had a couple of servers who didnt deserve a tip, but it was included so why put themselves out.

I think this is the same thing. I would have to reevaulate whether or not I would use the plan.

[kbean]

I can see 18% for a party for two or three is a little high. But you are on vacation. Plus, I like tipping 20% because I remember what it was like working for tips at a car wash.

[LibertyTreeGal]

I'll even take you one step further...I work at a school with disabled kids. I am sure that any of their parents would trade problems with any of us for a day. Put the 'tip' issue into perspective.

I'm one of "those" parents, and I'm complaining. I hate the guilt trip going on here, and I hate my status as a special needs parent being used to manipulate the emotions of people exercising their first amendment rights....

And I sincerely apologize for going off topic.

[Ian]

My, my, aren't we being miserly?
I mean, aren't we talking about $2-3 extra dollars for an average meal for a family of four? :confused:

I understand that it's frustrating to be 'told' what you 'have' to leave, but to quote another poster:


If you really think about it, isn't 18% what you should be leaving anyway? If you recieve poor service - speak to the manager! That's what they're there for and trust me ~ they WANT to know if you've had a particularly miserable server.
If you get great service, leave extra, just as you always would have, and get on with enjoying your vacation. You ARE at Disney World after all!!! :mickey:I don't see how this is relevant at all (nor do I see how the fact that some people have special needs children means I shouldn't be upset by this is relevant, but I'm not going there!) ...

The point isn't that I don't want to tip 18% ... or 20% ... or whatever. The point is I DON'T WANT TO BE TOLD BY DISNEY THAT I HAVE TO TIP.

Last time I checked, tipping was voluntary. It's supposed to be something that servers earn in return for giving excellent service. It's not something that supposed to be forced on patrons.

Look, I normally tip 20% minimum. And I won't lie ... I rarely if ever give less than that, even if the service is just okay. I will leave less if service is bad, though, and I don't want to lose that ability. And to say I have to "speak with a manager" if I don't want to pay the 18% is ridiculous. I should NOT have to take time out of my vacation to wait around for a manager to show up so I can take time to explain to him why I don't want to leave an 18% tip.

I mean how many people can envision a sudden shortage of managers when you want to talk to one? They know you're not going to wait around, so magically one won't be available when you need one, right?

Look ... if this is such a great idea, why the heck do no other restaurants anywhere in the U.S. do it?? I'll tell you why ... because it completely and totally flies in the face of what a "tip" is supposed to be!

[garymacd]

I don't understand why Disney would eliminate the automatic tip from the Disney Dining Plan and add it to the Disney Dining Experience card. Didn't Disney remove it from the plan because it wasn't a good strategy?

I agree. I find that odd.

By the way, where can I get more information on the DDE?

[JPL]

I
I mean how many people can envision a sudden shortage of managers when you want to talk to one? They know you're not going to wait around, so magically one won't be available when you need one, right?


And even if you do get to talk to one quickly I would still bet the response will be something like this:

I am so sorry you had bad service I will talk to the server and note it. I can not remove the 18% charge since it is not in my power it is company policy. I f you would like to go over to guest relations maybe they will be able to help you. Have a magical Day!

[JPooh]

Does this includes the counter service too. I mean like the food court at Pop Century or Pesco Bills?

[Vinny]

Thanks for posting this news. I have been contemplating joining the DDE since returning from our last trip a couple of weeks ago. After reading this though, I won't be doing that anytime soon.

[CandleontheWater]

I'm not too happy about this also. I recieved the e-mail in my inbox yesterday, but I was on the phone with the DDE people 2 days ago re-newing my membership and NO ONE said anything to me about the changes. I don't know if it would have changed whether or not I would have renewed my membership, but I would have liked to have all the information up front before I made my decision.

I think it is very sneaky and un-Disney to sneak in such a major change at the bottom of an e-mail, like it was an afterthought. Maybe they thought people wouldn't notice it!

I'm also upset about how confusing this is all going to be. We know what is going on because we're obsessed with Disney, but what about the casual guest. Will the servers be sure to mention how the tip is included before they bring the check, or will it lead to more confusion and over-tipping. I don't like these changes at all because I think it makes dining really complicated and confusing. Its a vacation, I really don't think that you should have to have advanced calculus training to figure out what you are or are not being charged for on your restaurant bill!!

[CleveSJM]

I can almost guarantee they will change their policy. They won't call it a gratuity because their legal department will know that will open them up to a huge class action lawsuit eventually. It'll be some kind of "dream service charge."

Also, based on what I've read on this thread, they really have to watch their accounting or they are going to get into big trouble. Each portion of revenue has to be properly accounted for. If the purchaser is thinking that 18% of their bill is going to the servers, the restaurant cannot take that as profits. They can withhold taxes but that's it. Anything else and someone might as well be working at Enron...

Your biggest fans hate this Disney, please think twice about it. Compromise. A mandatory 5% service charge and let us tip. That'll get your servers another 15-20% and you'll get your guaranteed margin.

[jodijo]

If tips is "TO INSURE PROPER SERVICE," then why do you give it at the end of the meal? We all know you can't insure your car or house after it is damaged.


I looked it up and I was wrong. It is:
To Insure Prompt Service, a possibly-apocryphal synonym for "gratuity."

In this acronym, "insure" is defined as: To make sure or certain of something.

I hope that clears it up!

[chick20679]

Obviously, alot of folks have had bad service at WDW... otherwise this 18% thing really wouldn't be an issue. That's unfortunate. Fortunately, I haven't ever had terrible service at any of the restaurants I've eaten at in WDW, and I don't mind having an 18% gratuity added on - it's what I would leave anyway, and this way I don't have to do the math - it will be right there in black and white.
Now, I do understand that taking the time to speak to a manager about horrible service takes time out of your vacation, (I'm all for having the most time in the parks as possible) and that maybe the managers won't be given the power to reverse the 'auto tip', but all the while - if a just few people take the time to say "hey, 'joe server' is really terrible" then next time you dine at that establishment 'joe server' probably won't be your server anymore. Consider it sort of 'paying-it-forward' for other diners who come after you. If you just leave a small (or no) tip, it only makes the SERVER think you're stingy... it doesn't let their boss know they stink at their jobs. Just as you would if you encountered a rude CM at a splash or if your room was messy after is was supposedly cleaned - tell someone. No ones boss can always know they aren't doing a satisfactory job unless someone tells them they aren't.
It's just a thought.

[WheresWalt]

I just emailed Disney expressing my dissatisfaction.
For those of you who wish to convey your thoughts, here's the email address:

[email protected]

I figure the more they hear from us, the better our chances...

Thanks for posting this email address. I will be sending my "not very happy with Disney right now" letter presently.

[magicofdisney]

I can almost guarantee they will change their policy. They won't call it a gratuity because their legal department will know that will open them up to a huge class action lawsuit eventually. It'll be some kind of "dream service charge."

Also, based on what I've read on this thread, they really have to watch their accounting or they are going to get into big trouble. Each portion of revenue has to be properly accounted for. If the purchaser is thinking that 18% of their bill is going to the servers, the restaurant cannot take that as profits. They can withhold taxes but that's it. Anything else and someone might as well be working at Enron...

Your biggest fans hate this Disney, please think twice about it. Compromise. A mandatory 5% service charge and let us tip. That'll get your servers another 15-20% and you'll get your guaranteed margin.
It's been called a gratuity on the DDP since it's inception and no legal problems have arisen (to my knowledge).

Additionally, there WERE restaurants that were NOT giving the server the full 18%. From what I read here on Intercot, those servers may have only received $5 per table (in the DTD area).

[AVITWeb]

Obviously, alot of folks have had bad service at WDW... otherwise this 18% thing really wouldn't be an issue. That's unfortunate. Fortunately, I haven't ever had terrible service at any of the restaurants I've eaten at in WDW, and I don't mind having an 18% gratuity added on - it's what I would leave anyway, and this way I don't have to do the math - it will be right there in black and white.
Now, I do understand that taking the time to speak to a manager about horrible service takes time out of your vacation, (I'm all for having the most time in the parks as possible) and that maybe the managers won't be given the power to reverse the 'auto tip', but all the while - if a just few people take the time to say "hey, 'joe server' is really terrible" then next time you dine at that establishment 'joe server' probably won't be your server anymore. Consider it sort of 'paying-it-forward' for other diners who come after you. If you just leave a small (or no) tip, it only makes the SERVER think you're stingy... it doesn't let their boss know they stink at their jobs. Just as you would if you encountered a rude CM at a splash or if your room was messy after is was supposedly cleaned - tell someone. No ones boss can always know they aren't doing a satisfactory job unless someone tells them they aren't.
It's just a thought.

That is the one thing I worry about. Wait staff just kind of sitting back and saying to themselves "Why go all out?? I am getting 18% anyway"
The automatically tacked on part does not phase me in the least. As a matter of fact, it will not change what I do at all. When my wife and I went last year and the year before, we were on the DDP. I was appauled in 05 when our bill was under $100 and the tip listed on the plan was 15%. 15% was what I was tipping back in 1999!!! If the bill was over $100, it went up to 18% (still sad!)
We did not have bad service AT ALL so I left cash on the table to make up the difference to get it to at least 20% some times more!
I used to be a waiter, and I know how it can be. People stiffing you only because they can or they want to be rude. I do not buy the whole "I didn't realize it wasn't included" scenario. If you buy the DDP or it is free, you should know about it BEFORE you use it. And people should be tipping a MINIMUM of 18%. I just really hope that this does not cause a SERIOUS decline in service.
If the service is bad, I will make sure to let someone know about it BEFORE i get the check, because I am sure that there will be some folks out there that will try to fake a bad experience just so they do not have to pay. Mind you, those type of people are few and far between, but with the amount of people who go to Disney each year, I bet it happens quite a bit.

[Victor Kelly]

I would say that 15% is good and required. I also think that the 18% should only be encouraged. Anything over 15% should be the choice of the diners and their view of the level of service.

If the servers have no intiative to be outstanding, like they now will be, then qualtiy of service might take a nasty hit, which will in turn mean that attendance at those places will drop.

I am all for over-tipping as my girlfriend and I almost always do. But we only frequent places with good service too.

[DisneyCrazyET]

I don't agree with being told what to tip.
We recently had a server(at ESPN) who took our order, gave us our drinks and never returned to our table. We saw him at other tables and tried to get his attention. Another server dropped our food off and that was then end of our service. (We were not on any dining plan) We had to go after him for our check. We informed the manager. He was no help. I'm glad we didn't have to argue about the tip. This was our first experience with terrible dining service at Disney.
Enjoy your day!

[amorillo]

I just emailed Disney expressing my dissatisfaction.
For those of you who wish to convey your thoughts, here's the email address:

[email protected]

I figure the more they hear from us, the better our chances...


I just sent out my email. Just wondering.... has anyone received a response? I'm sure they won't be in a hurry to get back to us! :shake:

[Tekneek]

There appears to be some debate on what the real etiquette of gratuity/tipping is. Some say 18% should be the minimum, while others claim 20%, some 15%, and so on. Clearly Disney has an 18% gratuity in mind, but is that what is normal for Central Florida?

[thejens]

I feel compelled to clarify that I don't know if the unions had anything to do with this policy and they may not (I can't help but suspect this was part of deal, but certainly don't know.) But I do not understand how all the gratuity would not go to the servers??? It seems to me WDW decided to increase their profits by keeping the tip portion of the plan and making us pay separately hoping we wouldn't figure this out and removed some of the food and pretended it was due to OUR preference to pay more for less. Now, (or perhaps this has been in the works since before the contract was ratified???) due to concerns from servers that we will take out our anger on the servers or "misunderstand" and not tip appropriately they are making it a requirement. I can't imagine being treated more disrepsectfully. Since WDW apparently thinks we are stupid I really feel like skipping the parks for a few years. If they had simply increased the price of the DDP I would not have been upset! I think we all understand that prices go up, Disney has to make a profit etc. but when it seems sneaky, inconvenient and greedy it rankles. I feel like they are spoiling the magic. Wahhhh!

[AVITWeb]

There appears to be some debate on what the real etiquette of gratuity/tipping is. Some say 18% should be the minimum, while others claim 20%, some 15%, and so on. Clearly Disney has an 18% gratuity in mind, but is that what is normal for Central Florida?

It depends on where you are from i guess. Here in the northeast, and from a former waiter, 20% is and has been the norm for quite a few years (5 min.) Some other places, like, say, the midwest, might be 15%. I think that 18 is a good compromise.
Please, lets not all forget, that these waiters/waitresses, make an hourly rate of anywhere from $2 to $4 per hour. Their tips are what bring them to something more of a good salary, and a really good one coule make quite the living if they really excell.
As far as them getting the entire 18%, in today' society, that just does not happen. Some tips are pulled, usually a percentage, to go to the food runners, bus boys, hosteses, etc. (at least in most other places, I do not know for sure at Disney)

[brownie]

I think this is wrong; the amount of tip should be up to me and should be based on the service received. You're taking some of the incentive away from the servers to strive to provide excellent service. I normally tip 20% for superior service, so if this policy remains in place, you can bet that I won't be adding to the gratuity.

[dlpmikki]

There is currently some question over whether this 18% applies only to DDE purchases and large parties. If it is actually a universal charge then I think it is reasonable for people to be concerned what may happen to service levels.

If it is just DDE then you need to make a judgement call whether you think you will get the relevant level of service / benefit to justify buying the card in the first place.

[GrmGrninGost]

That's crazy! I leave a tip according to the service I receive! I have no problem leaving a 20% tip or even more if the service is excellent. However, for poor service I may leave 15% or even less. I don't feel obligated to pay someone for poor service! I won't do it outside of WDW and I darn sure don't expect to have to do it at WDW! When we return in Feb., it will be a major issue for me to go straight to a manager if my waiter isn't all that I expect. I hate to be that way, but again I have to say, tips are earned not an obligation!

[Ian]

There is currently some question over whether this 18% applies only to DDE purchases and large parties.Question answered ... Disney already responded to my email ... their answer is below:


Dear Mr. Mitchell,

Thank you for contacting us.

We appreciate your interest in the policy change regarding gratuity at
our food and beverage locations. We apologize if the information
created some confusion. The 18% gratuity will be included when Guests
are parties of six or more enjoy dining experiences at our Table Service
locations or if Guests are members of the exclusive Disney Dining
Experience, a dining discount program for eligible Florida Residents and
Annual Passholders 21 years of age and older.

Your comments are very important to us and we assure you that they have
been shared with the appropriate areas. We look forward to showcasing
our finest food and beverage experiences with you.

Thank you once again for taking the time to contact us.

Sincerely,

Executive Offices
Walt Disney World ResortEmergency's over ... disaster averted ...

[medic9016]

On our Sept 07 trip, we purchased the DDP. We had the worst service at Crystal Palace for DD's 13th birthday. No way did he deserve an 18% tip for a buffet. We pre-ordered a B-day cake, we had to ask 4 times for him to bring it out. We only got refills once after asking a few times.

[LibertyTreeGal]

I got the same letter that "Mr Mitchell" got -- only difference was that they sent it to "Tyler Dawn" -- but I still don't like that they are doing that to DDE!!!

[ljv1975]

I have also received the same e-mail reply. It looks as though the 18% gratuity won't apply to the dining plan or those paying out of pocket for their meals.

[Hammer]

Question answered ... Disney already responded to my email ... their answer is below:


Quote:
Dear Mr. Mitchell,

Thank you for contacting us.

We appreciate your interest in the policy change regarding gratuity at
our food and beverage locations. We apologize if the information
created some confusion. The 18% gratuity will be included when Guests
are parties of six or more enjoy dining experiences at our Table Service
locations or if Guests are members of the exclusive Disney Dining
Experience, a dining discount program for eligible Florida Residents and
Annual Passholders 21 years of age and older.

Your comments are very important to us and we assure you that they have
been shared with the appropriate areas. We look forward to showcasing
our finest food and beverage experiences with you.

Thank you once again for taking the time to contact us.

Sincerely,

Executive Offices
Walt Disney World Resort


Emergency's over ... disaster averted ...

Thanks, Ian, for posting the response! This puts my mind at ease. As I will probably buy an AP if I buy into DVC, I'll still add a DDE. When I had a DDE card, I used it primarily for the discount on alcohol, and I tipped the discount amount. I've not had bartender make me a bad drink at WDW, so 18% for them is fine!

Still glad I wrote my email, as I think it is wrong that the non-Disney owned restaurants abused the Dining Plan and I'm glad I said it to them.

[missbunny]

I also do not like having a tip automatically added to my bill. I believe it should be up to me to decide if and how much of a tip the server receives. I am already paying for the food. I should be able to reward service on my own.
I know that the wait staff in any restaurant earns a low salary, my mil is a manager of a sports bar, but this shouldn't be passed on to me. If Disney believes that their wait staff deserves 18% of each bill, then Disney should be paying them more money.
I think we all can say we work hard for the money we earn, but should it be mandatory for tips to be included before hand. If that is the case then maybe everyone who receives tips should do this. My dh sometimes gets tips at work, he's a building superintendent. He should consider an 18% fee added on top of the salary he already receives for the work he does for his tenants. It would make saving for vacations easier.
But seriously, I don't agree and I sent my email to Disney. It is making me think about the benefits of annual passes and the DDE card. What once was a great way for my family to go to Disney is becoming less of a great deal. But thats my two cents.

[John]

As a DDE user, I usually tip 20-25% but I think it's bad business to force ANYONE to tip unless it's a large party.

I encourage all DDE members to complain about this. Gratuity is EARNED - period. Otherwise, it's what is called a TAX.

Remember, those who are DDE members PAY to be that and still deserve quality service. Now, where's the incentive to give me good service?

[disneymom2000]

I just did the math pulling my costs from my two previous trips using the dining plan and what it costs extra to get it. Then I ran a sample of a 2008 trip without choosing the dining plan extra and figuring about what I would spend on food and one with the dining plan extra plus the 18% and it is a better deal not to buy the dining extra package. But at this point, I believe my trip in December will be my last for a very long time unless I get an unexpected windfall. I suspect it will become harder and harder for families to afford Disney vacations in the future if this type of behavior continues. I am a 20% gratuity giver as well, and it shouldn't be held against the servers if Disney keeps changing the rules.

[John]

Question answered ... Disney already responded to my email ... their answer is below:

Emergency's over ... disaster averted ...


Nope - it's just a disaster on a much smaller scale now. It's still bull.

[dlpmikki]

As a DDE user, I usually tip 20-25% but I think it's bad business to force ANYONE to tip unless it's a large party.

I encourage all DDE members to complain about this. Gratuity is EARNED - period. Otherwise, it's what is called a TAX.

Remember, those who are DDE members PAY to be that and still deserve quality service. Now, where's the incentive to give me good service?

I agree with you totally John. I did email DDE as soon as I got their email but, unlike Ian, I haven't had a response. I am concerned about the quality of service issue.

[Piglet822]

While I'm not happy with this either, DBF just had a thought.
Was the gratuity included automatically on the DDP? I know Disney pushes DME and constantly states everything is free. Our tips, bellmen's tips, and skycap's tips went way down when DME started.
Is it possible that this is their answer to their servers not being tipped? :confused:
Just a thought.

[Deesdisney]

I rec. the same letter after writing my concerns. I am happy because we do not have dde or the ddp (to much food for us). I am sorry for the dde though. I am going in Jan. so this has eased my mind. Even though I tip better than 20%. I want to be able to tip accordingly.

[Figment!]

Here's a summary of the recent statments issued by Disney Agencies:

The Disney Dining Experience Team has announced to its members a new policy change for obtaining membership cards, as well as, a new gratuity policy.
Greetings from the Disney Dining Experience Team!

As 2008 quickly approaches, you will begin to see some exciting new developments for the Disney Dining Experience Membership Program. You asked and we listened! Effective November 11, 2007, you will no longer have to wait 3 – 6 weeks to receive your permanent membership card(s).

Guest Relations locations at Epcot®, MAGIC KINGDOM® Park, DISNEY’S ANIMAL KINGDOM® Theme Park, Disney-MGM Studios, DOWNTOWN DISNEY® West Side, and DOWNTOWN DISNEY® Marketplace will now be able to print permanent Disney Dining Experience membership cards for immediate use. This service is designed for existing and new members. Cards produced at the Guest Relations locations will be printed on paper stock similar to the annual pass tickets.

The Disney Dining Experience office will still be available to take applications for current and new members, via the phone, fax or mail for those who do not want to take advantage of the in-park service. Membership cards ordered through the Disney Dining Experience office will be received within 2 - 3 weeks of purchase.

All Guests who have ordered their Disney Dining Experience membership cards prior to November 11, 2007 date will have to pickup their temporary cards at the main entrance Epcot® Guest Relations. Your permanent card will be sent through the mail and arrive in 3-4 weeks from the date of purchase.

We would also like to inform you that the Walt Disney World® Resort will be implementing an across property policy change regarding gratuity at all food and beverage locations. Effective January 1, 2008, 18% gratuity will be added to all transactions, regardless of party size. Thank you for your continued support.

Cheers!


The Disney Dining Experience Team

The Disney Dining Experience Team has released the following blanket statement to provide further clarification to their orgional issue:
Many of you have expressed concern about the 18% gratuity that will be added to all Disney Dining Experience transactions. When using your Disney Dining Experience membership card the assessed gratuity will be added to all table service restaurant locations and lounges for all transactions regardless of party size. Gratuity will not be added to any counter service, food cart or quick service locations. In the past, gratuity was only implemented for larger parties of 8 or more for guests utilizing their Disney Dining Experience membership.

This adjustment to the program has been implemented in order to align the Disney Dining Experience Program with other dining experiences where gratuities are included. Effective January 1, 2008, when utilizing your Disney Dining Experience discount 18% gratuity will be added.


If you have any further questions or concerns we would ask that you send an e-mail to our Executive Offices at [email protected].

Thank you,

The Disney Dining Experience Team

Additionally, Walt Disney World Guest Communications has released the following blanket statement in order to clarify the automatic gratuity:
Thank you for contacting us.

We appreciate your interest in the policy change regarding gratuity at
our food and beverage locations. We apologize if the information
created some confusion. The 18% gratuity will be included when Guests
are parties of six or more enjoy dining experiences at our Table Service
locations or if Guests are members of the exclusive Disney Dining
Experience, a dining discount program for eligible Florida Residents and
Annual Passholders 21 years of age and older.

Your comments are very important to us and we assure you that they have
been shared with the appropriate areas. We look forward to showcasing
our finest food and beverage experiences with you.

Thank you once again for taking the time to contact us.

Sincerely,

Executive Offices
Walt Disney World Resort

[vamaggie]

I wrote an email earlier today and got the following response. It seems the 18% will only be added to the DDE patrons.

Thank you for your inquiry regarding the recent e-mail communication
detailing enhancements to the Disney Dining Experience Membership
Program.

We apologize if any of the information provided to Disney Dining
Experience members created some confusion. The e-mail communication
sent to the Disney Dining Experience members included information about
a change in the program gratuity policy.

As you may be aware, the Disney Dining Experience is a dining discount
program for eligible Florida Residents and Annual Passholder who are 21
years of age and older. For Guests who are utilizing a Disney Dining
Experience membership card, the assessed gratuity of 18% will be added
to all Walt Disney World table service restaurant and lounge experiences
for all transactions regardless of party size. This policy change only
applies to members of the Disney Dining Experience Membership Program.

[DisneyGiant]

This change is fine by me - helps me in figuring out the tip - also saves me a few bucks as we usually tip 20%.

Quite frankly, its not really a change for us per se - as we travel in a pack of 8 - and most restaurants automatically added the tip to our bill.

Les Chefs in France did not - and he got a little bit more than 18%.

We also use the DDE.

[WheresWalt]

Are any other customers with a restaurant discount like DVC members or annual passholders being charged this mandatory "gratuity"?? We are both and have heard nothing so...

You would think that if one discount plan is getting charged then they all should since the point is supposed to be the assurance that wait staff get a fair tip off the original total. Hmm.

[Donalds Duckie]

I also received the "second" email re DDE stating that many DDE members had expressed concerns over the new 18% gratuity policy. They reiterated that it would be applied to TS meals only but that it would be applied.

The email also stated that this policy is being implemented "to align the DDE with other Disney dining plans that include gratuity." So, does this mean that as of 1/1/08, DDP guests will also have the 18% gratuity added to their TS bill and THEY will be responsible to pay it since DDP will no longer cover gratuity in 2008?

I find it all very interesting. It appears that only those paying OP will be able to tip according to the service they receive dining at WDW.

Interestingly, I cancelled our April 2008 trip just this week because of Disney's ever rising costs. Receiving the DDE email only made happier that I cancelled our trip. It's my personal opinion that there is so much more to see and do in this world besides DisneyWorld. So, that's what we're going to do the next few years.

[4myprincesses]

Food for thought from a waitress of 15 years.

This stinks! Here's what I am writting to Disney regarding the new DDE "tipping" policy:
I recently learned that as a DDE member, my meals and drinks will now be subject to a mandatory 18% service charge. I have no problem tipping my servers 18%, in fact I usually tip above that. However I have a few concerns about this program.

As a server I would be bothered. As a server of 15 years, rarely do I ever add on a gratuity to a bill of 6 or more (policy at my place of employment.) I am much better off taking what they give me at least 90% of the time. Yes, there are a few regular crowds that I remember to add this onto as they simply do not tip at all and on their bill it is listed as a service charge for large party. I'd be insane to add a tip onto my regular tables of 2 or 4...my tips usually are 18-20% here. As a server, I also wonder how much of this tip goes to the server...are they going to mandatory tip out bussers from this, cooks, dishwashers, etc?

As a consumer I am mad. We made the switch to Disney Dining Experience from the Disney Dining Plan because we were getting poor service when we told servers we were on the dining plan. We had an awful experience at Cali Grill, Crystal Palace went from drink refills and pre-bussed table to our first round of drinks and a bill. As a consumer I like being able to give a great tip! Now the 18% will be commonplace and the extra few $'s I would normally add on for great service will seem a bit ho-hum to the server as there will be other tables leaving a $20 on the table in cash.

As a server you are constantly making choices, where to go first, who gets what when...it isn't just cut and dry, you have to prioritize. At my job, I know the people that tip good and when I have two trays of food for two different tables that came in at the same time guess who gets their food first. I am not saying I give poor service to others...I stated before that I average above average tips for our area. There are servers, however, that take it to the extreme of "why bother when I get it no matter what?" What you will start seeing is mediocricy at the TS restaurants for those on DDE. They will take care of you good enough for the 18% not to be removed, but won't go that extra step that they might have before (not all servers, some will still do it because they love their job and honestly believe people will (and it does happen) tip above the 18%.)

Frankly, I have a hard time seeing who wins in this situation as neither the server nor the consumer wins. What is up with this Disney?

[Figment!]

The email also stated that this policy is being implemented "to align the DDE with other Disney dining plans that include gratuity." So, does this mean that as of 1/1/08, DDP guests will also have the 18% gratuity added to their TS bill and THEY will be responsible to pay it since DDP will no longer cover gratuity in 2008? Actually, the follow-up (as posted a few posts up) reads "dining experiences" not "dining plans". There are currently other dining experiences like pre-paid meals, private dining, and special dining programs that do automatically include a gratuity--it seems likely that these are the "experiences" the statement is referencing.

[busterthebronco]

all this is why i just stay away from any "plans" or "deals".
i guess im just weird but i just want to see the menu, choose my dinner, pay for it, and tip accordingly.
its the american way!
if the prices are too high i'll go somewhere else.
if the food isnt good i'll take my money elsewhere.
if the service stinks i'll leave less tip.

[Sunshine1010]

Let me get this straight.....am I correct in saying?

1. The 2008 basic dining plan (DDP)
- 1 TS, 1 CS, 1 snack
- no more appetizer
- dessert is included
- tip is out of pocket
- $1.00 less per person, per pay

2. The 2008 Disney dining experience (DDE)
- 20% off food
- tips are now 'billed' to you at 18% instead of you choosing the tip and paying out of pocket
- tips billed on table service only
- tips billed on ALL parties, regardless of 1, 2, 8 people at table

I can honestly say that I now feel as though my health insurance plan is giving me a better deal than Disney. he he. I'd freak out if they started telling me that not only do I need to pay a co-pay, but THEY would choose my procedures, bloodwork is no longer included, and charge me for any extra time I waited in the waiting room.

(...and I mean this in a light-hearted way)

[JasonH]

All I can say is WOW!! My family and I have been going to WDW since I was 7 and that was 23 years ago and there have been a few times we had considered going with the vacation packages that included dining plans or purchasing a dining plan with our resort reservation, but found it was always best to just go where and when we wanted without having a set limit on what we can get b/c sometimes we may have wanted more than what was offered. Now this confirms another part why we didn't get the plans what with the "tip" being included no matter what. Now that our family has grown from a fam of 4 to a fam of 7, we now check first to see if "gratuity" is included or not but at least with the restaurants that don't automatically include "tip", we're in control of what our server receives which is at the least a 10% tip coming from a family that is on a budget, even moreso now with gas prices back on the rise, but that's a whole other topic in itself. lol I guess this just means our fam will have to see if a "tip" is included or not for our family size now.

[dlpmikki]

Actually, the follow-up (as posted a few posts up) reads "dining experiences" not "dining plans". There are currently other dining experiences like pre-paid meals, private dining, and special dining programs that do automatically include a gratuity--it seems likely that these are the "experiences" the statement is referencing.

Thanks for that Jason - I was wondering what on earth they were referring to. I did notice that their standard reply did not answer the main concern of service. I wonder if they will start asking if you are DDE now in the way they do for DDP?

[Tekneek]

They should call it a "convenience fee." ;)

[ariel03]

ok I have questions. So they first took the tip out of the disney dining PLAN and now it is back or not? I have free dining for next year. Am I still having to tip out of pocket or is it included again? :confused:

[LibertyTreeGal]

ok I have questions. So they first took the tip out of the disney dining PLAN and now it is back or not? I have free dining for next year. Am I still having to tip out of pocket or is it included again? :confused:

Tips are not included on the 2008 DDP, that's a separate issue entirely from this new development with the DDE which is just for Florida Passholders. So yes, you tip out of pocket.

[ariel03]

Thanks. I got confused reading thru all the posts. :mickey:

[Maleficent's Dad]

Jason, Thank you for the updates.

As far as the DDE "mandatory tip" is concerned, I emailed Disney AGAIN, reiterating my concern over this policy.

In my email, I included the fact that the DDP now does not include the tip and the DDE does - so Disney's now "aligning these plans?" (I know, Jason clarified the wording above.)

Also, I stated that I felt it unfair to just assume the percentage for a 'gratuity.'

Percentage-wise, are the servers at V&A's (who are exceptional) subject to the same amount as those at H&V? Please!

I also informed Disney that in most cases, we used the DDE's discount as our tip, so the servers would now be losing money.

I find it incredulous that Disney is forcing this upon us.

Perhaps they found that by allowing AP holders to purchase the DDE, there have been too many discounts?

It's the principal of the matter which is upsetting me. I do not like to be told how much I have to tip.

Once upon a time ~ not too long ago ~ the DDE was the best bargain around. I'm pretty upset by the new mandated policy. What will happen to the level of service now? And will servers be asking us before the meal if we have the DDE? (Similar to what they do now with the DDP?)

[wonderalice23]

:confused:Now I'm wondering...since this says table service....does the policy include buffets? I just know how confusing the Disney wording on restaurants is. If so, I won't be using my DDE at a buffet where I pretty much serve myself!
Also, since they will be discounting then adding on 18% - does this equate to about a 2% discount that I'm paying for? Sorry, frustrated and confused still !

[Jared]

First, for an absolute PR monster like Disney, it's amazing nobody in the company can write a decent release. We should have read the original statement and understood the new policy, not starting a crazy discussion and needing clarification.

More importantly, I'm glad to hear the automatic tip applies only to groups using the Disney Dining Experience cards, but I still can't believe this change. A gratuity is a reward to a server for good work, not an extra charge simply built into the bill. Why should servers work hard with parties with the card? If the 2007 Disney Dining Plan is any indication, they won't, and people using the new plan and paying out-of-pocket will receive the best service.

Jeanne, I understand your concerns, and it's completely unfair bus drivers and other folks are losing their deserved tip money, but there has to be another way.

[DVC Mike]

Once upon a time ~ not too long ago ~ the DDE was the best bargain around.

The value of the DDE has not changed at all. If you typically left an 18% tip before this policy change, there is no loss of value.

We have the DDE card and will be renewing it when it expires.

I understand your concerns about a possible loss of service. However, I believe those on the DDP (where the tip has been included) typically got great service.

[missbunny]

Dh had a question and idea about the service you receive when using the DDE card after the new year. First, do you think the server will ask to see the DDE card before you order like when they ask if you are on the DP. If not, then only use the card when you are happy with the service. If you receive poor service then pay out of pocket, that way you can decide the tip on your own.
Also if you do complain about poor service, and I do that when it is really bad, do you think that Disney will give you back the 18%, I don't believe so.
Lastly, with this new program policy, you will only save about 2% off your dining bill, I am not positive its going to be worth it especially for a small group.

[dlpmikki]

The value of the DDE has not changed at all. If you typically left an 18% tip before this policy change, there is no loss of value.

We have the DDE card and will be renewing it when it expires.

I understand your concerns about a possible loss of service. However, I believe those on the DDP (where the tip has been included) typically got great service.


Dh had a question and idea about the service you receive when using the DDE card after the new year. First, do you think the server will ask to see the DDE card before you order like when they ask if you are on the DP. If not, then only use the card when you are happy with the service. If you receive poor service then pay out of pocket, that way you can decide the tip on your own.
Also if you do complain about poor service, and I do that when it is really bad, do you think that Disney will give you back the 18%, I don't believe so.
Lastly, with this new program policy, you will only save about 2% off your dining bill, I am not positive its going to be worth it especially for a small group.

Mike is right about the value of the discount being the same if you already left a tip of 18%. I'll be interested to see if they start asking before you start eating if you are on DDE as they don't currently.

I am concerned about service because for the last couple of years I have been getting more and more occasions of poor service. I have been voting with my feet and have found many extremely good restaurants offsite. I'll almost certainly continue that way now so won't be renewing my DDE next year.

[AVITWeb]

ok I have questions. So they first took the tip out of the disney dining PLAN and now it is back or not? I have free dining for next year. Am I still having to tip out of pocket or is it included again? :confused:

Ariel...how did you get free dining already for next year?

[SurferStitch]

I can't help but think that there was a good percentage of people with the DDE card that tipped based on the discounted price. Then, while everyone here says they are big tippers, there are still plenty of other people who tip the minimum 15%, and even then, on the discounted price, so I'm sure servers got stiffed from time to time.

So now, an automatic 18% gratuity on the non-discounted price gives those servers a fair tip. You STILL get a 20% discount like always, and you STILL pay a generous tip (like always, right?).

If poor service is such a problem with everyone here, then perhaps you should complain to Disney about service, not an automatic gratuity. I have gotten exactly the same high quality service whether I paid OOP or was on a dining plan or used DDE. I have also gotten the same quality food every time.

While it's odd that Disney would be able to get away with this new policy, it is in place, so you have to decide whether or not you will let it ruin your vacation. I, for one, will not let it ruin mine, and will purchase the DDE for our trip next month. It's still a great deal saving 20% on everything a TS meal has to offer, and I'll be making out with only having to pay 18% on the non-discounted bill for a tip (since we usually tip 20-25% of the non-discounted bill since service is so great at WDW).

And, a percentage is a percentage, so a V&A server can get 20% just like a 50's PT server deserves, but at V&A that 20% is around $80 instead of $15. Although, at V&A we give about 20% to each server, not just a total 20%.

[Momof2boys]

But if a tip/gratuity is not legally required, what should it matter if people tip nothing or 20% ? If servers don't feel like they are getting enough tips then they need to evaluate their position. People say that servers only get a few dollars an hour but I didn't force them to take that job. You can go to McDonald's and start at $10 per hour. I don't like it when people say that I have to make up for peoples job choices.

For the record, when we were at Disney a few weeks ago we tipped based on the original cost, not on the 20% discounted DDE price. But we also tipped based on service - anytime I need to flag down another server or get up to find ours, his/her tip drops. And we're pretty patient people. We don't tip because it's expected, but because our server has earned it.

BTW, I got both emails from the DDE . . . with our renewal notice in the mail the same day the first email came out. With a family of 4, I think we'll be passing on the DDE going forward.

[CandleontheWater]

I too got the clarification e-mails that all of you got, but I'm still not happy. I'm especially not happy that the 18% is going to applied at lounges as well. I may be stingy, but when I order at a bar I usually give a dollar per drink, which I think is pretty standard and fair. I don't see why a bartender need 18% to pop the top off my beer.

[Reedy Creek Buccaneer]

I have only had one bad Disney Dining Experience, and that was at Disneyland. The server was too interested in the Lakers in the NBA Championship. I always give 20% for excellent service, 15% for average, and 10% for poor. They will be cheating themselves with me.

[mudpuppysmom]

My major concern with this is that Disney is telling me I have to tip 18% and it's mandatory, period! Telling people they HAVE to do something makes it all the more less attractive to everyone in the group.

I think that it's personal discretion what to tip.

Again, there is no clarification on whether buffets are subject to this mandatory charge or not. I think I MIGHT feel a little bit better knowing that I can still choose the tip at a buffet place (for servers who only bring drinks and clear plates --if they even clear the plates!).

I'm still upset that Disney is TELLING me that I HAVE to tip 18% and they are doing it for me!

I don't expect that I'll receive less than acceptable service at the places we dine, but on the off chance that we do (and we have already had less than stellar service at Jiko before), I'd like to be in control of what the server gets for a tip.

[FlaTinkRAMESAM]

I wrote an email earlier today and got the following response. It seems the 18% will only be added to the DDE patrons.

Thank you for your inquiry regarding the recent e-mail communication
detailing enhancements to the Disney Dining Experience Membership
Program.

We apologize if any of the information provided to Disney Dining
Experience members created some confusion. The e-mail communication
sent to the Disney Dining Experience members included information about
a change in the program gratuity policy.

As you may be aware, the Disney Dining Experience is a dining discount
program for eligible Florida Residents and Annual Passholder who are 21
years of age and older. For Guests who are utilizing a Disney Dining
Experience membership card, the assessed gratuity of 18% will be added
to all Walt Disney World table service restaurant and lounge experiences
for all transactions regardless of party size. This policy change only
applies to members of the Disney Dining Experience Membership Program.

Then why did I get charged 18% when I booked at CRT for Jan? I don't have the DDE (am looking into it though...) but when I called to clarify the charges, she said it was tax and 18% gratuity to the 35.99 lunch charge.

[Tekneek]

Some people sound like Mr. Pink in here, but there is some truth to it. If nobody would take those jobs that were dependent on the customers picking up portions of their salaries, then the pay scale/system would have to change. Putting the customers into a guilt trip because they chose to take a job that pays below minimum wage is hardly the right way to go about it.

If Disney is upset that their employees are being mistreated by guests because of DDE, why even offer it at all? Some of the arguments don't seem to add up here. If I cared about my employees and felt they were being taken advantage of by a discount program, I would dissolve the discount program and therefore resolve the problem. The problem must not be DDE in itself, since it is continuing on.

[FlaTinkRAMESAM]

I have also sent an email because I was charged the 18% but according to the various email responses DDE members have received, it doesn't appear as though I should have... I will let you know what they tell me.

[disneydad04]

Over the years we have used almost every dining plan at some point. Most included gratuities and the nice thing was not having to leave extra cash at then end of the meal. But that cost is included in the plan so you pay it either way. With the change do the DDE it actually might save me a couple of dollars as we usually tipped at least the amount of the discount. If we ever have a meal where we feel servie is not acceptable, I will get a manager during the meal and complain that has worked every time. We have gotten adjustments or extras with any unsatisfactory service. Some people leave little or no tip and don't realize that the server has to share the tip with a number of other people.

[Tekneek]

Some people leave little or no tip and don't realize that the server has to share the tip with a number of other people.

Playing Devil's Advocate here, but why should the customer be responsible for the business model of the restaurant? Why not just raise the cost of every menu item by 18% and spread 18% of the daily take amongst all the help and then there won't be any bad guests to blame?

[Dsnygirl]

As a DDE user, I usually tip 20-25% but I think it's bad business to force ANYONE to tip unless it's a large party.

I encourage all DDE members to complain about this. Gratuity is EARNED - period. Otherwise, it's what is called a TAX.

Remember, those who are DDE members PAY to be that and still deserve quality service. Now, where's the incentive to give me good service?

I, too, got my e-mail response from Disney, and was very glad to hear it's not an "across the board" policy, as we aren't DDE users, nor do we plan on using the DDP, based on the service issues I've heard. But - we ARE prospective DDE users, as we may get an AP in the future. Although we, like John, usually tip well, I don't want to be FORCED into it if service is poor, and I also would hate to see the service become worse & worse as the servers become less & less "enchanted" w/ all these dining plans/experiences they have to deal with. It'll be interesting to see how this plays out next year... and it'll sure help our decision on DDE easier next fall!!

[sleepingbooty]

I have also sent an email because I was charged the 18% but according to the various email responses DDE members have received, it doesn't appear as though I should have... I will let you know what they tell me.

Cinderella's Royal Table has their own policy. You pre-pay your meal there - it has nothing to do with this change to the DDE.

I like the idea on poster suggested: If you received terrible service, don't present your DDE card. Of course, you won't get your discount, but you won't have to pay the set tip. You'll end up close to even, but you'll have made your point. Its still probably a better idea to talk to management - before the bill is brought. I worked as a waitress in college, and trust me - the management is very concerned about the level of service that is provided by their staff, and they are watching. I really don't think that we are going to see an across the board drop in service due to an automatic gratuity. I didn't see it with the Dining plan. On our last trip, we had all decent to excellent service. Trip before that, the same. The one before that, we only had one negative experience (and it wasn't that bad). The year before that, it was all fine. So thats about 21 table service restaurant visits, one with poor service, the rest good to great! Thats a better track record than we have for the last 21 dinners out here at home, I'm sure! And three out of 4 of these trips were during free dining promotions.

This is not to say I'm happy with these changes. I'm not. I think its a really bad idea to charge an automatic gratuity. But, as others have mentioned, they can't actually force you to pay it. I'm interested to see if all the complaint letters we're writing will have any effect. Probably not as much as if DDE membership dropped off dramatically, or table service patronage lagged! I say we just put our money where our mouth is!

[Stu29573]

I recently was at a Mexican food place where they added 20% and didn't say anything to us about it. The service was NOT wonderful, by the way (I never did get a refill of water) I looked over the menue, etc, and there was no mention of this policy, so I simply took my reciept, deducted what I thought was fair and paid that. I was expecting to be hassled, but I wasn't. I don't think they can legally "charge" you a "gratuity." They just hope everyone will fall in line and pay it. I'm not big on "falling in line."

[Figment!]

Then why did I get charged 18% when I booked at CRT for Jan? I don't have the DDE (am looking into it though...) but when I called to clarify the charges, she said it was tax and 18% gratuity to the 35.99 lunch charge.

Currently, the following food purchases automatically include a gratutity regarless of party size:


Food and beverage purchased at prepaid venues
Food and beverage purchased at special Pre-paid events
Food and beverage purchased from Golf Carts, Pizza Delivery and Private Dining.Cinderella's Royal Table is a prepaid venue.

[FlaTinkRAMESAM]

Currently, the following food purchases automatically include a gratutity regarless of party size:


Food and beverage purchased at prepaid venues
Food and beverage purchased at special Pre-paid events
Food and beverage purchased from Golf Carts, Pizza Delivery and Private Dining.Cinderella's Royal Table is a prepaid venue.

THANK-YOU SO MUCH FOR THE CLARIFICATION!!! :D

[Pirate Granny]

We've quit going to the Rose & Crown because of the horrible service...and not once or twice, but probably out of ten trips...one good server and that was the week between Xmas & New Years...I'm pretty upset about being charged 18% across the board...I find using DDE the service can be spotty to begin with...and of course for the first time, I've got free dining for September 08 and bad enough we lost the appitizer and the tip...even though it's free...Doesn't disney make enough money with the high increases in park passes each year?
:pirate:

[Iluvpooh]

I recently was at a Mexican food place where they added 20% and didn't say anything to us about it. The service was NOT wonderful, by the way (I never did get a refill of water) I looked over the menue, etc, and there was no mention of this policy, so I simply took my reciept, deducted what I thought was fair and paid that. I was expecting to be hassled, but I wasn't. I don't think they can legally "charge" you a "gratuity." They just hope everyone will fall in line and pay it. I'm not big on "falling in line."


We had a problem kind of like this at Olivia's at OKW this past week. We were on the DDP-we ordered our food and my daughters wanted one of those light up Tinkerbell drinks. Our waitress told us they were not included on the DDP-we said no problem and ordered them anyway. She was a terrible waitress-She never came back and we had to get drink refills from another guy and another waitress actually brought out our food. So basically after we ordered we didn't see her again until she brought the bill. Anyway we got 2 bills one for the DDP meal and one for a room charge for my daughter's drinks. She had added the 18% tip to BOTH bills. I refused to pay the $2.50 tip on the 2 drinks after she didn't even bring them to us. I was so upset with the service I tried to get the manager to transfer our tip to the nice guy who refilled our drinks and she said they couldn't do that, but she wished that she could because you should be able to choose to whom your tip goes. Needless to say the waitress tried to pull one over on me and if she had been any better I wouldn't have minded, but I thought the idea of tipping yourself is a little tacky! BTW_My husband gave a couple dollars cash to the nice guy who refilled our drinks.

[Jared]

I think mudpuppysmom said it best: Everything seems less attractive when it's mandatory. Many people tip at least 18 percent for good service, but they have the authority to decide whether or not the server deserves such graciousness. Now, cardholders simply have no choice, which takes away the only weapon patrons have against poor service.

Also, it's ridiculous servers at a nice restaurant like California Grill will now receive the same tip as the people at the buffets. Working at a upscale table service establishment requires so much more work and effort than someone who clears plates at Hollywood & Vine. It doesn't sound fair to the guy who adequately serves a three or four course meal with wine.

[Maleficent's Dad]

Food and beverage purchased from Golf Carts, Pizza Delivery and Private Dining.
Jason,
When you say "Golf Carts," are you referring to the carts that serve food & beverages on the golf courses? If so, I was completely unaware that they automatically receive a gratuity. :confused:

[Maleficent's Dad]

The value of the DDE has not changed at all. If you typically left an 18% tip before this policy change, there is no loss of value.
I must disagree.

Tipping at a buffet does not have to be 18% unless you receive excellent service. Now it is mandatory.

Go into a lounge - such as Rose & Crown, Raglan Road, Tune Inn Lounge, Tambu Lounge, or Gurgling Suitcase to name a few - and now you're paying almost $2 extra per beer you order.

I'm just really upset that the tip is now automatic. I just appreciate when I get to decide on the amount. I won't leave less than 20% under normal circumstances, but I feel cheated with the new policy. I want to be in control. I want to dictate where my money goes. I just sincerely feel that WDW is really milking their customer's wallet for all it's worth.

Anyone remember about 4 years ago, when the economy and travel industry was poor? Disney was giving people a 7 night stay when they paid for 3. My, how quickly times change... :unsure:

[ResQRanger82]

I have mixed feelings about the change. Like many others, we almost always give 20% to great servers (or more to the exceptional!). Still, I agree that the guest should be in control. When I heard to the possible change, I figured that if I had good service, I would use my DDE card, and possibly give a little extra to that special cast member. If the service is poor, I think I would be inclined to not pull out my DDE card and rather pay the full price and cut down on the gratuity. Still not the greatest deal for me, but at least I would have the satisfaction of not giving a poor server the same gratuity I would give a good server. I still think that the DDE is a good deal and we can all hope that they may change their minds back sometime in the future.

[Crow]

so
i got an AP my last trip.
i guess i could
pay the reg price & tip accordingly
get a DDE card & use it if the service was good to get a 20% discount on food & alcohol (or 2% if u figure automatic gratuity)
or just use my AP 10% discount for lunches & tip then. but alcohol not included.
ummmm now i dont know if i will get DDE for next yr

[dudeman1975]

I am just upset over the whole dining plan in general in 2008. I enjoyed not having to bring a whole bunch of cash with me to restauraunt for tip. I actually spent more on other items such as souveneirs.

The whole idea of the dining plan to me at least seemed to be a way to pre-pay for the dining and not having to worry about carrying money around with you. Wait until people realize they have to leave a tip, have no cash or credit card, what will Disney do make you dress up as Goofy and do the dishes.:cool:

[caryrae]

Maybe next Disney could automatically charge us $2/per day per person for groups of 5 or more for the Mousekeepers tips at the Resorts too.

[Disney_Barbie]

Us too, Linda. We've always put the 20% back into the tip, rounding so that the bill is an equal amount. Now we'll save a few bucks per meal if they're going to automatically include it.

I agree that I am very happy about this, it will make my life easier to not have to worry about the math, just sign and get back to having WDW fun!
I am also very happy for the WDW wait staff.
"customary" gratuity varies a lot in different cultures. And I'm sure with guests from all over the world I'm sure there is much confusion. In some cultures 10% is standard, but as a former server I would have considered 10% a Great insult! This new standard will make sure that the hard-working servers get the gratuity they deserve. And after all, if by some chance you happen to end up with less than Disney type great service, let management know. And if you do get typical Disney amazing service, for heavens sake, they deserve that 18%!

[Ian]

I'm interested to hear if folks agree with me on this or not ... This really relates more to the DDP changes for '08 than it does the DDE, but I'll ask anyway.

As opposed to Disney lopping off the tip, wouldn't you rather they just have upped the cost of the DDP?

I mean clearly the reason for dropping off the tip and the appetizer is because they thought they weren't making enough money on it, right? So why not just increase the cost?? Me personally, I'd MUCH rather pay even $50 a day for the DDP and still have it include the tip (the appetizer I can do without) than have it this way, because (as others have mentioned) it was really nice not having to worry about carrying all that cash around with us.

I'll be shocked if most people don't agree. And really, if Disney thinks they're somehow fooling people by lowering the cost by $1 they're sadly mistaken. Everyone sees this for the massive price increase it is, right? I mean best case, this is probably raising your costs by a minimum of $30 a day. That's $10 for the appetizer and $20 for the tip on your TS meal.

Seems like Disney could have done some better market research on this before making this change.

[Hammer]

I'm interested to hear if folks agree with me on this or not ... This really relates more to the DDP changes for '08 than it does the DDE, but I'll ask anyway.

As opposed to Disney lopping off the tip, wouldn't you rather they just have upped the cost of the DDP?

I mean clearly the reason for dropping off the tip and the appetizer is because they thought they weren't making enough money on it, right? So why not just increase the cost?? Me personally, I'd MUCH rather pay even $50 a day for the DDP and still have it include the tip (the appetizer I can do without) than have it this way, because (as others have mentioned) it was really nice not having to worry about carrying all that cash around with us.

I'll be shocked if most people don't agree. And really, if Disney thinks they're somehow fooling people by lowering the cost by $1 they're sadly mistaken. Everyone sees this for the massive price increase it is, right? I mean best case, this is probably raising your costs by a minimum of $30 a day. That's $10 for the appetizer and $20 for the tip on your TS meal.

Seems like Disney could have done some better market research on this before making this change.


Hmmm, I would be okay with your plan but this would have to include a provision that the full 18% gratuity is passed on to the wait staff regardless of if you are a WDW owned restaurant or not. The way it they word the gratuity inclusion says that an 18% gratuity is charged; nothing that says the restaurant needs to give that gratuity to the wait staff. If Disney made the non-WDW restaurants give the full gratuity, I would be on board.

I don’t understand why everyone seems to think they will need to carry all this cash for tips. I know currently there isn’t a place to put additional tip on a Dining Plan check, but I would think that should be changed for 2008. I never leave cash tips anywhere. I always add it using the tip line on my non-DDP items like alcohol and sides, then it is charged to your room key.

[Tygger7]

I'm interested to hear if folks agree with me on this or not ... This really relates more to the DDP changes for '08 than it does the DDE, but I'll ask anyway.

As opposed to Disney lopping off the tip, wouldn't you rather they just have upped the cost of the DDP?

I mean clearly the reason for dropping off the tip and the appetizer is because they thought they weren't making enough money on it, right? So why not just increase the cost?? Me personally, I'd MUCH rather pay even $50 a day for the DDP and still have it include the tip (the appetizer I can do without) than have it this way, because (as others have mentioned) it was really nice not having to worry about carrying all that cash around with us.

I'll be shocked if most people don't agree. And really, if Disney thinks they're somehow fooling people by lowering the cost by $1 they're sadly mistaken. Everyone sees this for the massive price increase it is, right? I mean best case, this is probably raising your costs by a minimum of $30 a day. That's $10 for the appetizer and $20 for the tip on your TS meal.

Seems like Disney could have done some better market research on this before making this change.

I totally, 100% agree with you. I would have MUCH rathered they increase the per person/per day cost of the DDP, rather than going this route. Also, the primary appeal to me was not having to worry with budgeting for meals and carrying additional cash/credit cards...one less thing for me to worry about while I'm on vacation. Now, what's the point? I think this whole thing is a perfect example of the saying, "Pound wise and penny foolish" on Disney's part. Just be straight with your guests and don't try to act like you're doing us a favor by "dropping" the price and then taking away the features that made the plan appealing. I think this move will cost Disney a LOT of business in the future.

[Tygger7]

I don’t understand why everyone seems to think they will need to carry all this cash for tips. I know currently there isn’t a place to put additional tip on a Dining Plan check, but I would think that should be changed for 2008. I never leave cash tips anywhere. I always add it using the tip line on my non-DDP items like alcohol and sides, then it is charged to your room key.

Regarding cash tips....the reason I only leave cash tips is because two little things called "skimming" and "identity theft". A couple of years ago, while eating at a local sit down restaurant, I gave the waiter my card to pay for my meal. I filled out the tip, and when it appeared on my statement, the dollar amount of the tip had been changed. I also received a phone call saying that there had been excessive charging on my card, which turned out to be things not purchased by me or my husband. Long story short, the only place we could trace it back to was this restaurant, as it was the only time our card was out of our direct sight. I loved the dining plan because my credit card stayed locked up in the hotel safe, and I can review my hotel bill daily to make sure the charges are accurate. I REFUSE to allow a server to take my credit card out of my sight now, and primarily pay for my restaurant meals with cash to avoid the hassle. Can't speak for others, but that's why this whole DDP tip thing really irks me. :mad:

[Hammer]

Regarding cash tips....the reason I only leave cash tips is because two little things called "skimming" and "identity theft". A couple of years ago, while eating at a local sit down restaurant, I gave the waiter my card to pay for my meal. I filled out the tip, and when it appeared on my statement, the dollar amount of the tip had been changed. I also received a phone call saying that there had been excessive charging on my card, which turned out to be things not purchased by me or my husband. Long story short, the only place we could trace it back to was this restaurant, as it was the only time our card was out of our direct sight. I loved the dining plan because my credit card stayed locked up in the hotel safe, and I can review my hotel bill daily to make sure the charges are accurate. I REFUSE to allow a server to take my credit card out of my sight now, and primarily pay for my restaurant meals with cash to avoid the hassle. Can't speak for others, but that's why this whole DDP tip thing really irks me. :mad:


Okay, I totally understand your hesitation, as I had an issue with a gas station a few years ago, but do you put a credit card to allow charging on your room key? If so, you could use it for tipping. The credit card number does not show on the room key card so you should be able to safely use it just like using it to buy something at one of the park shops.

[UnknownMouseketeer]

I think have all of this DDE 18% business figured out. I was told by a concierge castmember 3 weeks ago that the DDE is a privately owned company. That is why they are M-F 9-5. We left our card at home and could not use it. Because we were there on the weekend, no one could verify that we were DDE cardholders. The castmember told us that at the beginning of the year things will be different because Disney was taking over the program. So if we have a problem in the future, they (or somone in company) could look up your information and there would be no problems. I'm wondering if this is a direct "taking care of our own" from the parent company. I'm sure that a lot of people tip on the DISCOUNTED amount and not the origional bill. It wasn't the castmemebers fault that you are a DDE cardholder. Why should they lose the extra tip and with 20% off could be quite a lot of money.
Unfortunately, they are losing money where I am concerned. In my experience, Disney wait staff has ALWAYS been pleasant and attentive. I'm sure a lot of customers tip accordingly and up to 20-25% or even more.... on the un-discounted bill; and may not add to the tip if it is already included.
Probably a wash..

[Jared]

Okay, I totally understand your hesitation, as I had an issue with a gas station a few years ago, but do you put a credit card to allow charging on your room key? If so, you could use it for tipping. The credit card number does not show on the room key card so you should be able to safely use it just like using it to buy something at one of the park shops.
I suppose I'm naive, but I'll give a server my credit card, especially at Disney, and trust he will appropriately swipe the card without writing down my number. I've dined at tons of restaurants in my life and haven't had any problems.

But I understand your concern, and that's where Christine's suggestion works. Your credit card number does not appear anywhere if you charge items to your room key, and you can still leave a non-cash tip on the bill.

I completely agree with Christine's point. There are ways to avoid leaving cash tips, and charging meals to the room is probably the best and easiest.

[Ian]

Yeah, but there are plenty of people (myself included) who prefer not to use credit cards if they can avoid it. I try and pay cash for everything when I'm in WDW.

Yes ... I could just leave it on my card and then pay cash for it on check-out, but I'd be less than honest if I said that was likely to happen. I'd probably spend the cash on something else and end up with the tip on my card.

[AVITWeb]

I'm interested to hear if folks agree with me on this or not ... This really relates more to the DDP changes for '08 than it does the DDE, but I'll ask anyway.

As opposed to Disney lopping off the tip, wouldn't you rather they just have upped the cost of the DDP?

I mean clearly the reason for dropping off the tip and the appetizer is because they thought they weren't making enough money on it, right? So why not just increase the cost?? Me personally, I'd MUCH rather pay even $50 a day for the DDP and still have it include the tip (the appetizer I can do without) than have it this way, because (as others have mentioned) it was really nice not having to worry about carrying all that cash around with us.

I'll be shocked if most people don't agree. And really, if Disney thinks they're somehow fooling people by lowering the cost by $1 they're sadly mistaken. Everyone sees this for the massive price increase it is, right? I mean best case, this is probably raising your costs by a minimum of $30 a day. That's $10 for the appetizer and $20 for the tip on your TS meal.

Seems like Disney could have done some better market research on this before making this change.


Bring on the price increase...I would GLADLY pay extra to have those things included. I don't think its absurb at all to pay say $50 a day per adult to add an appetizer and tip...We were spoinled...last year we got it for free, but the year before, for our honeymoon, we paid for the DDP and i would have gladly done it again...Once you get over the sticker shock, and work out the numbers, you realize just how much of a benefit it is. I would much rather not carry the cash or travellers checks, just so that I can leave a tip.

[Tygger7]

Okay, I totally understand your hesitation, as I had an issue with a gas station a few years ago, but do you put a credit card to allow charging on your room key? If so, you could use it for tipping. The credit card number does not show on the room key card so you should be able to safely use it just like using it to buy something at one of the park shops.

Only one reason why I don't allow charging on my room key: I have a teenage daughter that would lose her head if it weren't attached. We also take one of her friends, and sometimes they sightsee for a couple of hours on their own. I usually keep all the room keys, but sometimes she needs to carry it to get FastPasses. Yes, she has lost her room key before...in fact, on our last trip. It's not a big deal, but even if the card were lost for one hour before we could notify Disney, someone could charge stuff to my room/credit card. We take traveller's checks and use those 95% of the time. I know it seems like a pain, but it's a bigger pain trying to find stuff she loses. :mickey:

[Disneyatic]

I 100% agree with Ian, I would rather have seen the price increase and the tip still be included so that the plan still offered the ease of everything being paid in advance.
That was the main advantage of the plan for us, having everything already paid for and the only thing we needed to worry about was having money for souvenirs!

[LibertyTreeGal]

I 100% agree with Ian, I would rather have seen the price increase and the tip still be included so that the plan still offered the ease of everything being paid in advance.
That was the main advantage of the plan for us, having everything already paid for and the only thing we needed to worry about was having money for souvenirs!

DITTO! And I'd willingly pay twice as much for the kids DP if they had kid portions of the adult menu options. :thumbsup:

[magicman]

I 100% agree with Ian, I would rather have seen the price increase and the tip still be included so that the plan still offered the ease of everything being paid in advance.
That was the main advantage of the plan for us, having everything already paid for and the only thing we needed to worry about was having money for souvenirs!

I also agree.

One note regarding the premise that everyone can just charge tips to their room which I've read in some other posts: That will only work under the assumption that everyone is staying on-site.

Also, this new change shoots one of the "espoused advantages" to the change to the 2008 DDP, which was ostensibly so that the wait staff would once again have an incentive for exemplary service.

Another thing, am I the only person who feels that paying 18% at a buffet (like Hollywood & Vine) for a server who brings me drinks is a rip-off???

The ONLY benefit I am seeing to all the changes...advanced dining reservations should get very easy to attain 2008 for those willing to succumb to the structure and mandates that Disney is kindly calculating and providing to me.

[Scar]

One note regarding the premise that everyone can just charge tips to their room which I've read in some other posts: That will only work under the assumption that everyone is staying on-site.
I believe the discussion of charging tips to their room began as a response to this post:
The whole idea of the dining plan to me at least seemed to be a way to pre-pay for the dining and not having to worry about carrying money around with you. Wait until people realize they have to leave a tip, have no cash or credit card, what will Disney do make you dress up as Goofy and do the dishes.In order to be eligible for the DDP, you must be staying onsite.

[adamsfam5]

Sounds like everyone (nearly everyone) is unhappy about the changes?:thedolls: What are you going to do about it?

Anyone called or emailed?:thumbsup:

[LibertyTreeGal]

Sounds like everyone (nearly everyone) is unhappy about the changes?:thedolls: What are you going to do about it?

Anyone called or emailed?:thumbsup:

I think you ought to read the whole thread before you ask a question like that :D LOL

Not only have we called and emailed, but many of us got answers, which is why we aren't so uppity about it anymore....

[Maleficent's Dad]

I think you ought to read the whole thread before you ask a question like that :D LOL

Not only have we called and emailed, but many of us got answers, which is why we aren't so uppity about it anymore....

Not entirely true...
I'm still upset about the DDE requirement and have emailed yet again!

[princessgirls]

Quite frankly, I think it's really greedy pure and simple.

I had read somewhere that the waiters at Disney had to claim all of their tip income (oh, my heart bleeds...) on their taxes because it was almost all reportable income due to the invention on the DDP.
Now I just think it's greed on all ends. People really liked the dining plan for the convience and the servers were making out well on every table. I can tell you that if any server encountered my wicked sister-in-law they would only get a buck or two in a tip, no matter how much the bill was.
We were lucky to be able to go to WDW twice this year, but it may be a long time before we can go back.
I hope this issue resolves itself. Like any other company, Disney will tweek their product until their profits reflect that people are annoyed.
FYI~ I just read that Disney posted record profits for this past quarter.
Julie:mickey:

[CPT Trips]

;)Does wicked SIL eat more than once at any restaurant;)

[DizneyRox]

To add insult to injury, let's also not forget about the new Holiday Surchage that will apply to buffets during the upcoming holiday seasons.

Turkey Week - Nov 18th - Nov 24
Santa Weeks - Dec 16 - Jan 5
Bunny Weeks - Mar 16 - Mar 29
Memorial Months - May 25 - Jul 5

Expect an additional $4 per seat added to your bill. Currently it appears this is just buffets, BUT I can't imagine this not also applying to regular TS locations as well.

I really do wish they would grab me by the ankle and shake me upside down at park entry to get all my money. At least they would tell me it's a new ride and I would think I was getting my money's worth.

[frakers]

I am all for emailing to voice displeasure with whatever the subject may be and I've done it many times but Disney isn't going to change anything as long as they get more money. However, we can all speak VOLUMES with our wallets. If they want to speak in numbers only, we as the customers can easily be in the drivers seat. Disney is taking power from our hands so I am choosing to take (at least my family's) money from theirs in the dining arena. Does Disney not realize the multitude of dining options that abound right outside their doors? Those places would LOVE to take any dissatisfied Disney business and we'd be charged lower prices to boot! Do they think we are so completely enamored with the TS options that we will just "get over it" and go along with anything they want no matter what they try to force on us? Get over yourself Disney. We always eat all of our meals on property with at least 1 TS meal per day but that will no longer be the case.There will be no TS plans for us on our next trip, we'll be going off-property for all our larger, expensive meals. WE are the customers, we get to choose where our money goes and how much of it too. If enough people take this stance we will see changes because they will have no choice. Once the bottom line shows a negative change, trust me, they'll change. Take the power from us Disney? We can take our business from you. We aren't nearly as powerless as you think.

[caryrae]

I hope this issue resolves itself. Like any other company, Disney will tweek their product until their profits reflect that people are annoyed.
FYI~ I just read that Disney posted record profits for this past quarter.
Julie:mickey:

It's just like all big companies, they want to make profits but not just small profits but record profits every year and it's just sad. It's all about the almighty dollar but the U.S. dollar ain't that mighty these days.

[magicman]

I am all for emailing to voice displeasure with whatever the subject may be and I've done it many times but Disney isn't going to change anything as long as they get more money. However, we can all speak VOLUMES with our wallets. If they want to speak in numbers only, we as the customers can easily be in the drivers seat. Disney is taking power from our hands so I am choosing to take (at least my family's) money from theirs in the dining arena. Does Disney not realize the multitude of dining options that abound right outside their doors? Those places would LOVE to take any dissatisfied Disney business and we'd be charged lower prices to boot! Do they think we are so completely enamored with the TS options that we will just "get over it" and go along with anything they want no matter what they try to force on us? Get over yourself Disney. We always eat all of our meals on property with at least 1 TS meal per day but that will no longer be the case.There will be no TS plans for us on our next trip, we'll be going off-property for all our larger, expensive meals. WE are the customers, we get to choose where our money goes and how much of it too. If enough people take this stance we will see changes because they will have no choice. Once the bottom line shows a negative change, trust me, they'll change. Take the power from us Disney? We can take our business from you. We aren't nearly as powerless as you think.

It makes me sad, but I agree. It might be time to consider the possibility that WDW won't be an annual destination for my family's vacations.

[CleveSJM]

It makes me sad, but I agree. It might be time to consider the possibility that WDW won't be an annual destination for my family's vacations.

Ditto and I also agree. I also think Disney knows this and is doing it on purpose. The TS restaurant's are almost fully booked throughout the year. They need to throw cold water on it to slow it down and maximize effectiveness. I've experienced and read numerous complaints about how the service is slipping. That could be because they are running at 100% capacity for too long. I think they do want to reduce the number of diners hitting the TS restaurants. To do that, they have to make it less attractive. I see it like a golf course. Is a TS supposed to be like a public course, getting overplayed and abused, or would they rather have it like a country club, limited play and maximize the experience...

[Marker]

It's just like all big companies, they want to make profits but not just small profits but record profits every year and it's just sad. It's all about the almighty dollar but the U.S. dollar ain't that mighty these days.

What else would we expect it to be about? Disney is a business.

I guess it would really be a magical place if they were not concerned with profits.... but then they wouldn't stay in business very long.

DDP is still an option, not an entitlement. If it works for you, great. If not, don't buy it. Seems simple enough to me. Certainly not something I'll choose to get upset, or hostile, about.

[KylesMom]

Is a TS supposed to be like a public course, getting overplayed and abused, or would they rather have it like a country club, limited play and maximize the experience...
Interesting you put it this way, since the 18% surcharge is directed towards the folks they extended a DDE Membership invitation to - Florida Residents and Passholders. If they were trying to throw water on TS dining to slow it down, I would have guessed that they would have simply terminated the DDE - or the DDP - or both.

I can see how reducing the DDP as they have will slow down TS meals . . . but I honestly don't see what adding 18% automatically to the DDE will do, except anger their membership. Heck, it's not like the membership is free . . . That being said, I would still like a CHOICE on what to tip my servers.

Perhaps buffet dining among these members will go down (or not), and lounge visits may decline a bit (18% surcharge per drink?) but I don't believe a majority of cardholders will drop the program. After all, you're talking about people who visit frequently or for extended periods of time.

We've determined that DDE between 2006 and 2007 for our two trips easily saved us over $500. There may have been one or two circumstances where we tipped under 20%, but those instances were far and few in between (I think both times were at Ohana in '06). While I can't stand the idea of Disney mandating a tip schedule, the DDE is saving me a bunch of money - enough to buy an A/P and then some!

I'll be curious to see how it plays out. I really don't expect them to change their recently broadcast e-mail - although I did send a vehement letter to them stating that I object to the mandated surcharge on my bill. But will it terminate my relationship with Disney? No. As stated, the DDE is still saving me a ton of money. :marg:

[caryrae]

What else would we expect it to be about? Disney is a business.

I guess it would really be a magical place if they were not concerned with profits.... but then they wouldn't stay in business very long.

DDP is still an option, not an entitlement. If it works for you, great. If not, don't buy it. Seems simple enough to me. Certainly not something I'll choose to get upset, or hostile, about.

I know that's what it's about. I was just saying it's all about getting RECORD PROFITS. It shouldn't be about how to squeeze every last penny out of everyone.

[DVCWDWMEMBER]

we are DD members through our annual pass and have been for a number of years. Do I like having the 18% added to my bill? I really don't mind at all. We always tipped 20%. 2 of our children have worked as servers at some very exclusive restaurants and were jipped out of tips on numerous occasions by people who could afford to leave a tip. Most people tip the server even when they could have done a better job serving but it is the few that always spoil it for the many in any situation in life. Will I stop bying the DD card? No I will continue to get it every year. No matter what we still end up saving money in the long run.

[frakers]

Obviously the DDE isn't an entitlement, why would we pay for an entitlement? :confused:
It was an option for us to purchase the DDE card when we did, in September. However, Disney changed the plan that we bought in to. If we had known they were going to announce this change less than 2 months into our membership, we would not have purchased the DDE. Also, I hate to tell you this but just wait, the next step will be making that mandatory 18% fee for all TS meals. They started by dropping the DDP tip, now adding this on the DDE, so next will be that all TS meals will include this, essentially, non-negotiable charge. I think some folks are thinking we are bothered by having to tip 18% and that's far from the truth. Our objection is Disney deciding for us how we should compensate our servers for services not even yet rendered and us having no say-so in the matter.

[NJGIRL]

I read a large portion of the 11 pages of posts to this thread and II'm still not sure if this applies to out of pocket customers? Can someone let me know.

[Jared]

I read a large portion of the 11 pages of posts to this thread and II'm still not sure if this applies to out of pocket customers? Can someone let me know.
The automatic 18 percent gratuity applies only to guests using the Disney Dining Experience card. I think everybody was confused when the news first broke a few days ago.

[Scar]

I read a large portion of the 11 pages of posts to this thread and II'm still not sure if this applies to out of pocket customers? Can someone let me know.From one of Figment!'s posts:
Thank you for contacting us.

We appreciate your interest in the policy change regarding gratuity at
our food and beverage locations. We apologize if the information
created some confusion. The 18% gratuity will be included when Guests
are parties of six or more enjoy dining experiences at our Table Service
locations or if Guests are members of the exclusive Disney Dining
Experience, a dining discount program for eligible Florida Residents and
Annual Passholders 21 years of age and older.

Your comments are very important to us and we assure you that they have
been shared with the appropriate areas. We look forward to showcasing
our finest food and beverage experiences with you.

Thank you once again for taking the time to contact us.

Sincerely,

Executive Offices
Walt Disney World Resort

[Scar]

It shouldn't be about how to squeeze every last penny out of everyone.They can't do it without your permission.

[Jasper]

They can't do it without your permission.

Ummm, I am not exactly sure what you mean when you say they can’t do it without your permission so let me apologize in advance if my response does not match your intent.

If you meant that the restaurant can not charge you the 18% without you telling them they can then I believe your statement is not correct. Several years ago I read about a lawsuit that happened in Kentucky when a patron of a restaurant sued because they did not like the service they received but were charged a gratuity anyway because of the size of their party. The verdict was in favor of the restaurant.

In announcing the verdict the judge said that as long as the restaurant had properly informed their patrons of the gratuity policy then they could basically do what they wanted and they only choice the patron had was to take their business elsewhere. The definition of properly informing the patrons of the policy was that they had to post the policy on the door of the restaurant, list in the menu, and in those restaurants where the patron pays at a cash register then they had to post it there as well.

While laws can certainly vary from state to state, I suspect that this one is probably pretty similar in most states. Just my two cents worth.

[Scar]

Ummm, I am not exactly sure what you mean when you say they can’t do it without your permission so let me apologize in advance if my response does not match your intent.

Thank you.

Actually, I believe we are on the same page here. I understood the poster I quoted to be saying that Disney is trying to “maximize profits across the board”, not just with this particular change. My response was a simplified way of saying what others here have said, “If you don’t like it, then stop giving Disney your money.”

I believe that Disney is in their right to implement these specific changes and the best recourse we have, as customers, is to stop giving Disney our money.

Just for the record, I will continue to give them my money.

[DizneyRox]

I haven't run the numbers yet, but a replacement for the DDE might just be to get the DDP and just not leave a tip. The problem is still going to finding a good value combination on the plan.

Sure, it punishes he servers, but might just send the message. On the DDP, tipping is still up to you, as it should be.

[DVC Mike]

get the DDP and just not leave a tip.
Sure, it punishes he servers, but might just send the message. On the DDP, tipping is still up to you, as it should be.

Wow, I am amazed that anyone would suggest not tipping! If you can afford to go to Walt Disney World and spend $$$ on transportation, hotel, tickets and food, I'm sure you can afford to tip your server for a job well done.

[DizneyRox]

Wow, I am amazed that anyone would suggest not tipping! If you can afford to go to Walt Disney World and spend $$$ on transportation, hotel, tickets and food, I'm sure you can afford to tip your server for a job well done.
Yes, you are right, but my point was mostly that tipping IS an option on the DDP. And, if service is bad, then no tip is an option. For me, it is an appropriate way to punish bad service.

The problem is though, the DDP isn't a very good value so I'm guessing that the DDE is still the best value overall. I'd like to mention though, I've never had a time under the DDE that a bad tip was necessary, but I do think that is partly do the fact that I could yank a tip from a server if the service is bad. Automatic gratuity is not a good thing.

[Rodders]

Restaurant tipping here in the UK is typically 5% - 15%. If service is bad then frequently no tip is left. In my experience, service in the US is generally better and IMO this is linked to the tipping culture differences.

There are significant exceptions to this such as a Chinese restaurant near to me :thumbsup: and some of the servers at some other theme parks in Florida that I won't name :secret:

[CleveSJM]

Wow, I am amazed that anyone would suggest not tipping! If you can afford to go to Walt Disney World and spend $$$ on transportation, hotel, tickets and food, I'm sure you can afford to tip your server for a job well done.

I agree with Mike that we all should be prepared to tip at least 15% for good service. But I continually sense this sense of entitlement to a tip regardless of what happens. A tip should never be assumed (or made automatic). Raise the cost of the food and pay the servers better if you want that. Leaving no tip should always be considered an option to show displeasure.

As other's have mentioned, tipping is a cultural thing as well. In Japan, you are insulting your server if you leave a tip. You are saying "here is extra money, go take a class on how to do your job." But WDW is in the US and it's US customs so everyone should know a tip for good service is expected but everyone should also know that not leaving a tip for poor service is part of the process as well. Do not reward poor service or poor restaurant management.

[Ian]

Hmmm, I would be okay with your plan but this would have to include a provision that the full 18% gratuity is passed on to the wait staff regardless of if you are a WDW owned restaurant or not.Agreed. I'd like to see that be a provision, as well.


Bring on the price increase...I would GLADLY pay extra to have those things included. I don't think its absurb at all to pay say $50 a day per adult to add an appetizer and tip...:ditto:


Another thing, am I the only person who feels that paying 18% at a buffet (like Hollywood & Vine) for a server who brings me drinks is a rip-off???No, I totally agree. An 18% tip for a buffet server is ridiculous.


To add insult to injury, let's also not forget about the new Holiday Surchage that will apply to buffets during the upcoming holiday seasons.

Turkey Week - Nov 18th - Nov 24
Santa Weeks - Dec 16 - Jan 5
Bunny Weeks - Mar 16 - Mar 29
Memorial Months - May 25 - Jul 5

Expect an additional $4 per seat added to your bill. Currently it appears this is just buffets, BUT I can't imagine this not also applying to regular TS locations as well.Right now they're saying buffets only, but I agree ... it's highway robbery.


I am all for emailing to voice displeasure with whatever the subject may be and I've done it many times but Disney isn't going to change anything as long as they get more money. That's not entirely true. Disney has, in the past, reversed unpopular decisions when they received enough guest emails about it. And that's regardless of the potential fiscal benefits.


I know that's what it's about. I was just saying it's all about getting RECORD PROFITS. It shouldn't be about how to squeeze every last penny out of everyone.Agreed. I'm a die-hard capitalist, but how much is enough??

[Jasper]

Wow, I am amazed that anyone would suggest not tipping! If you can afford to go to Walt Disney World and spend $$$ on transportation, hotel, tickets and food, I'm sure you can afford to tip your server for a job well done.

As others have already said it is not about having the money or not wanting to spend it. Rather, as others have said, it is about the entitlement mentality that goes on with such a “forced” gratuity.

The whole point of a tip is to reward good service. When a restaurant automatically adds the tip then the incentive to provide first rate service drops way off. It is also about feeling like we are being “shook down” by the company by forcing us to pay for something that is traditionally based on quality of service.

I would love to see more restaurants pay a better wage to their wait staff and then do a truly good job of supervising that wait staff and using things like pay raises and continued employment as incentives to good service rather than using gratuities for this function.

When we visit friends who live in a small town on the Illinois border north of Chicago we always visit a restaurant there that is a mid priced table service place that does not allow tips to be paid. Instead they pay their wait staff above minimum wage and then manage them closely to assure quality service.

I have to say as a patron that I love this idea. They have very little turnover in their wait staff, the wait staff seem to be basically happy and most importantly we have never had a bad experience with their service in the last 10 years that we have been going there. And before you say that if we lived there and went more often that our experience might be different I can say that our friends go there an average of at least twice a month and have never had a bad experience.

My point is that if restaurants really want to do things different it can be done!!

[dlpmikki]

Restaurant tipping here in the UK is typically 5% - 15%. If service is bad then frequently no tip is left. In my experience, service in the US is generally better and IMO this is linked to the tipping culture differences.


And there was I thinking that in our country the minimum was 10% but quite often restaurants add 12.5% automatically as a service charge and then expect you to tip too!

It is a different culture and one tips differently in the US. In the US the level of service reflects the level of tip. I can see the advantages there. I can also see the advantages of having a better minimum wage.

From comments going around some of the boards saying servers can get $50-80 thousand including tips I suspect some servers in the UK might like to change systems. Remember in the UK we hate complaining so an auto tip is less likely to be challenged by us. I have to admit after a lot of trips to the US I am more willing to say when I am not happy with service - in the US or the UK.

[Rodders]

And there was I thinking that in our country the minimum was 10% but quite often restaurants add 12.5% automatically as a service charge and then expect you to tip too!

I have met people who just flat out don't tip. I have also met people who tip 20% unless the service is awfull. I think it depends on where you are and who you are with. If somewhere adds a service charge then I won't tip on top of that 9 times out of 10. The service charge is optional and you are well within your rights to subtract it from the bill. I have never done this but if the service was appalling then I certainly would.


It is a different culture and one tips differently in the US. In the US the level of service reflects the level of tip. I can see the advantages there. I can also see the advantages of having a better minimum wage.

From comments going around some of the boards saying servers can get $50-80 thousand including tips I suspect some servers in the UK might like to change systems. Remember in the UK we hate complaining so an auto tip is less likely to be challenged by us. I have to admit after a lot of trips to the US I am more willing to say when I am not happy with service - in the US or the UK.

I agree, things are totally different with advantages and disadvantages to each system.

[Tekneek]

What else would we expect it to be about? Disney is a business.

I guess it would really be a magical place if they were not concerned with profits.... but then they wouldn't stay in business very long.

I don't think the issue is not wanting them to be a profitable enterprise. The issue is with Wall Street demanding that profits be LARGER each quarter, not simply that profits be posted at all. IMO, any business that posts a profit is getting the job done and those with losses are coming up short. According to Wall Street, if your profits are lower than last quarter, the same as last, or not quite as high as they expected, then you're a bad business.

[Crow]

im not entirely happy w this. and the buffet is a little much. i do tip some at buffets but not the same as full service.
i havent received any bad service that i really remember. and the 2 times i was on DDP it seemed still good.
just have to complain if you get bad service i guess.
and somehow do need a way to make sure its the waiter/waitress getting the tip

[Nurse Kim]

I have many years experience as a waitress. I have worked in TS, buffet and fast food type services. I hate to brag but I am an excellent waitress and I have had people not tip no matter how good the service is. I have had others tip more than the average but when that is your living one doesn't make up for the other. At a buffet I don't expect the normal gratuity when all you do is take the customer a drink and take plates off the table. We are taking our first trip to disney in March an this doesn't make us happy at all. We have always tipped well because I know what it is like to try and make it on waitress wages. I am sure they are much higher at Disney than it's here.

[DizneyRox]

We have always tipped well because I know what it is like to try and make it on waitress wages. I am sure they are much higher at Disney than it's here.
That's funny... Disney doesn't pay well across the board, I'm positive wait staff is no exception.

[doodleboy]

That is definitely not right! They are basically raising the price of each meal by 18% and there is nothing you can do about it. If that is the case they might as well really raise prices by 18% and eliminate tips, it's the same thing they are doing now! Tipping should be determined by the diner, not the management. Also, I do NOT feel that tipping should be 18% at buffets where I have to get my own food, sure I appreciate you getting my drink, but really... I got up and got my own food! The nickel and dime-ing that is going on at Disney is getting out of hand. :mad:

I am also pretty much a straight 20% tipper or better with good service,and I tip on the pre-discounted meal. But I do not do this for buffets. The buffet server should not expect 20% as they are typically waiting on double the amount of tables (8-10 rather than 4-5) as a regular menu ts server, and only clearing plates and bringing drinks. 10% is customary in a buffet setting, although I usually tip more.

The point is, where is the motivation for the server who knows he/she is getting a set tip? Some of them are not even motivated when a tip is not set in stone. I used to hide my DDE card until the check came to avoid the wait person knowing I even had a discount on my meal for fear of not getting the same service.

[DDuck66]

Well after 11 pages I might as well put my two cents into the pot. I still believe that the DDE is a good deal, but like many I do not like the automatic gratuity. I think service can and will suffer. I plan on judging my service and if it is lacking, I will be sure to take it up with the management. I have never really had bad service before, but at times, the wait staff was not as attentive as I would have liked. I used to judge my waiter/waitress by how long my drink glass remained empty and adjust their tip accordingly. I guess now, I will judge it by the same standards and decide whether to lodge a complaint if it does not live up to expectations.

[Zippy 1]

We just returned fromWDW on Friday. We did notice that at all the TS restaurants we ate that 18% was added to our DDP receipt and to our out of pocket receipt (drinks). It took us 2 meals to realize that the tip was already added in when we received our OOP bill because there was a place to add an additional tip. We did not see this at CS. We were only a party of 3 not the larger parties they said they would add this to. Just thought I would let people know our experiences. Will add our trip report in the next few days.

[Jared]

We just returned fromWDW on Friday. We did notice that at all the TS restaurants we ate that 18% was added to our DDP receipt and to our out of pocket receipt (drinks). It took us 2 meals to realize that the tip was already added in when we received our OOP bill because there was a place to add an additional tip. We did not see this at CS. We were only a party of 3 not the larger parties they said they would add this to. Just thought I would let people know our experiences. Will add our trip report in the next few days.
This thread is discussing future changes for the Disney Dining Experience card, not the Disney Dining Plan. This year, the plan included an automatic 18 percent gratuity at all table service meals. In 2008, though, the Disney Dining Plan will no longer include the tip, while all table service meals paid for with the Disney Dining Experience card will include an 18 percent tip.

[Sunshine1010]

Soooooo.....basically, the changes are:

2008 DDP
- tip not included, and we can choose the tip
- no appetizer
- dessert IS included
- $1.00 less

2008 DDE
- tip of 18% is billed to you at TS

??????.....do I have that correct?

[Scar]

Sounds right.

Also,

2008 Across the board all parties of 6 or more

- 18% gratuity billed at all TS locations.

[Jared]

Soooooo.....basically, the changes are:

2008 DDP
- tip not included, and we can choose the tip
- no appetizer
- dessert IS included
- $1.00 less

2008 DDE
- tip of 18% is billed to you at TS

??????.....do I have that correct?
Yep, I think you have it right!

:tasty:

[knhund]

When I read this, I was astonished and outraged! While I do understand large groups do take more work and understand that gratuities are almost always added to parties of six or more, I do not agree the 18% should be added to “all” transactions, regardless of party size.

Gratuity has always been given based on the service provided. Anyone with any decency or manners is aware of that fact. My husband and I have always left 15 to 20 percent, or more gratuities for good service. Normally we leave at least 15 percent even if the service was not great. It is however, a rare occasions we have ever had to leave less that our usual amount.

A good example would have been while vacationing at WDW in mid September of this year. We ate at Rose and Crown in Epcot. Our service was horrible. The entire dining experience at that night was deplorable and frustrating. While our server was adorable, I have no idea what happened to her memory because she constantly forgot to bring drinks, rolls, etc. Sad thing was, the restaurant was less than half-full when we arrived and it never did fill up. There was plenty of staff on hand. We did say something to the manager, but were basically blown off! A staff member later said we should write to the President of Epcot and tell him about our experience. I am sorry to say, I never did that due to my hectic work schedule.

My husband and I look forward to our annual vacation at WDW all year. This year was anything but a “magical” experience and we will not be going back in 2008. We normally spend ten days and there were so many mistakes during our vacation that it left us wishing we had not gone at all. Let alone for our usual ten days. It was horrible for us.

Disney has always been about SERVICE. Other companies model themselves after they way Disney does customer service. That said, I believe if WDW is adamant about initiating this new policy, service will suffer drastically. There will be nothing to motivate the servers because they know they will be getting their 18 percent no matter what. BIG MISTAKE WDW!!!

K Hund

[BriarRose]

I emailed Disney asking whether they are expecting a tip in addition to the 18% gratuity added onto the bill, since we usually tip a minimum of 20% and do tip more for exceptional service and this is the response I received:

Dear Ms. Smith,

Thank you for contacting us. Our Guests' impressions are very
important to us, and we appreciate the time you took to share your
thoughts.

Although we regret your disappointment with the adjustments made to the
Disney Dining Experience Membership Program beginning January 1, 2008,
we want to assure you that your remarks have been shared with the
appropriate individuals.

As is our current practice, the gratuity will be assessed on the full
bill, and then the 20% will be discounted. This applies to all food and
beverage locations excluding counter service, food court, or quick
service locations. If Guests' wish to leave an additional gratuity for
exceptional service, they are welcome to do so.

We hope this information is helpful, and we look forward to future
opportunities to entertain you.

Sincerely,

Executive Offices
Walt Disney World Resort

It seems to me that they are trying to discourage people from using the service. It reminds me of the Magic Kingdom Club. First, it was free, then they charged a membership fee, then they did away with it altoghether.

[DizneyRox]

It seems to me that they are trying to discourage people from using the service. It reminds me of the Magic Kingdom Club. First, it was free, then they charged a membership fee, then they did away with it altoghether.
I agree, it does seem that they want to make the program less attractive so weed out people, then when they cancel it, everyone will have such a bad taste in their mouth they won't care.

DDE is relatively new, and I think was in response to try to get more locals, etc into the parks (around 9/11). Now that it's not necessary, the program is not useful. If they can get people into the DDP or just pay straight cash, it's more money in the profit column.

I wouldn't be surprised to see an increase in price to participate in the program, then a complete removal of it.