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Ian
10-29-2007, 08:21 AM
You know it really pains me to say this, because I've actually been a pretty big fan of both Tom Brady and Bill Belichek over the years. I've always admired the way they conduct their business up there, their dedication to excellence, and (of course) their success.

But this year man ... I don't know what's going on. Starting with the whole cheating scandal and the way Belichek handled that and now with this whole running up the score thing.

I mean there's a definite unwritten rule in the NFL that you DO NOT run up the score. Ever. Under any circumstances. Yet yesterday, in the 4th quarter, when they were up by nearly 40 points on the 'Skins and pitching a shutout, Belichek has Brady passing all over the place.

There was no doubt he was trying to score more points. That's just totally inexcuseable in my book. Very classless.

To me, it almost invalidates all the records and everything they're going to set this year because there's a reason no other team put up these kinds of numbers ... they had respect for their opponents. :mad:

JPL
10-29-2007, 08:46 AM
I think this is in response to the cheating scandal. It's Belichek making a statement saying look how good we are we don't need to cheat we can score at will. I will admit it's very classless and eventually another team will get fed and start taking cheap shots at Brady or another star knocking them out of the game or season.

Tygger7
10-29-2007, 09:32 AM
I totally agree with Ian & JPL's posts. I have a hard time respecting anyone in that organization at this point. Many will say (in regards to the cheating scandal) that "everyone does it". So just because "everyone does it", that makes it okay? I don't think the whole cheating thing was the issue...they are just mad that they got caught and are now trying to show how "superior" they are above everyone else in the NFL. I think the way the Redskins game was handled showed a complete lack of class. When you're that far ahead, why not rest your starters and give some of the 2nd & 3rd string guys a chance to play. Giving them experience would serve the TEAM better in the long run. The whole thing just leaves a bad taste in my mouth. :ack:

ibrowse17
10-29-2007, 09:43 AM
As a coach, I can some what see the point of the other team's defense having to stop you. That being said, I do not agree with that fake kill the clock play which they have run two weeks in a row. I had always respected the Pats, and thought they had played the game with a lot of class. While I question their class, it can not be questioned that they are by far the best team on the field everytime they play. Let's see if it stays that way in the coming weeks. However, the NFL is a much different game than is the high school brand of football I have spent the past 17 years coaching.

dolphinmickey9170
10-29-2007, 10:10 AM
What do you want them to do? Just stop playing offensively and hand the ball over to the other team so they can score a few points? Why would you do that? I see nothing wrong with scoring all those points. I don't agree with the cheating episode either, but what is wrong with scoring when you can?

Donald A
10-29-2007, 10:19 AM
Honestly, I look at the Patriots as a classless group of losers. I am not a sore loser and am not jealous. In fact, I have nothing to be jealous about since how can I be impressed by this football team. If you are talented enough to win without cheating, then why did you cheat? If everyone does it, then why were the Patriots the only ones caught? I am sick of the excuses the organization makes and nauseaed by their lack of class.

SBETigg
10-29-2007, 10:32 AM
Oh please. We need another "we hate the big mean Patriots" thread? Why not combine this with the other thread? It doesn't seem like we need a whole new thread on it when we have that one.

Maleficent's Dad
10-29-2007, 10:49 AM
What do you want them to do? Just stop playing offensively and hand the ball over to the other team so they can score a few points?
I don't think Ian was suggesting "playing nice" and giving the other team the ball. His point was that the Pats could have run the ball, eaten time off the clock, and probably still scored a bunch. It was the manner in which they won. It did seem as if the Pats were going for greater numbers.

Oh please. We need another "we hate the big mean Patriots" thread?
I by NO MEANS hate the Patriots. And if you look at Ian's original post, neither does he. The Pats just seemed to show their true side yesterday.

It may be to pad the numbers for the "Brady vs. Manning" (Peyton) debate. :fball:

Next Sunday should be an interesting game! I'll be at the ESPN Club on the BW to catch some of it! :football:

Hammer
10-29-2007, 10:50 AM
What do you want them to do? Just stop playing offensively and hand the ball over to the other team so they can score a few points? Why would you do that? I see nothing wrong with scoring all those points. I don't agree with the cheating episode either, but what is wrong with scoring when you can?
What they could have done, as most professional sports teams do in this situation, is bring in the second and third string players to finish out the game once they are up by 4 touchdowns. There were plays that could have been done to eat up the clock, such as running the ball as Frank suggested. And even if the 2nd or third string QB throws an interception (as happened in the Miami game), you don’t immediately yank him. You had a comfortable lead and you were playing the 2007 Dolphins, not the ’72 version. I’m pretty sure the lead was still safe.

This coming week we are going to see how the coaches of 2 undefeated teams handle themselves. Tony Dungy, in my opinion, is the epitome of class, even when he was faced with heavy personal problems, and makes sure his players act in the same manner. If you can’t do that, you will not be on the Colts for long. You really can’t say the same about Bellichek and some of the comments or attitudes they have had.


Oh please. We need another "we hate the big mean Patriots" thread? Why not combine this with the other thread? It doesn't seem like we need a whole new thread on it when we have that one.


Sherri, this is a seperate issue with the Patriots. The other thread had to do with the videotaping issue.

SBETigg
10-29-2007, 10:55 AM
Sherri, this is a seperate issue with the Patriots. The other thread had to do with the videotaping issue.

Which has come up again here in multiple posts. Every other forum seems to combine threads that mention similar though not the same exact topics. It seems to make more sense to do it here, too, considering the way the conversation started and continues.

SBETigg
10-29-2007, 11:09 AM
I mean there's a definite unwritten rule in the NFL that you DO NOT run up the score. Ever. Under any circumstances.

Ian, unwritten rules are not definite. If so, they would be written. Just saying. ;)

Ian
10-29-2007, 11:43 AM
What do you want them to do? Just stop playing offensively and hand the ball over to the other team so they can score a few points?Not sure how much football you watch, but for ... oh maybe the last 100 years or so ... when teams have a big lead they RUN THE BALL!

I mean it's not like they had a small lead that could slip away. They were up by 40 POINTS in the 4th quarter. The game was put away and had been for a long time. Yet they still threw the ball downfield and even went for it on FOURTH DOWN at one point.

Look ... you can be a Pats fan and defend them if you want, but I can 100% assure you that virtually everyone on the planet knows that what they're doing is wrong and totally classless. It's been wrong in the NFL as long as the NFL has existed (and before that, as a matter of fact). It's not a grey area. You don't run up the score. Period.

And I'll tell you something. At some point, they're going to go up against the wrong coach or the wrong player and they're going to be made to pay. Someone's going to take a cheap shot at Brady or Moss or something. They're as complicit in this whole thing as Belichek is.

And something else ... the Colts show everyone how it's done. This season, even though they're the defending champs, they've had to sit back and listen to everyone talk about the Patriots. They haven't said a peep and have just gone about their business.

This coming weekend, when the two teams play each other, you can bet I'll be solidly behind the Colts. They may not win the game, but (as Christine already said) they won the class battle a long time ago. Tony Dungy has more class in his pinky finger than Belichek has in his entire body.

SBETigg
10-29-2007, 12:12 PM
And something else ... the Colts show everyone how it's done. This season, even though they're the defending champs, they've had to sit back and listen to everyone talk about the Patriots. They haven't said a peep and have just gone about their business.

The Colts haven't had to say anything. They don't have people looking to take them down or making threads about how it's so unfair that they score points in a game. Even as defending champs, they don't have the same kind of Superbowl record in recent years to bring out the haters.

You didn't jump out to accuse the Colts of the same thing in week one, when they kept on scoring against a defeated New Orleans 41-10. And not a word when San Diego handed Denver their most lopsided home loss since '66, 41-3. But the Patriots keep on scoring and it's a big terrible thing to do? I agree that it did seem a bit much and the Redskins were clearly outplayed, but wouldn't it have been insulting for the Patriots to give anything less than their best on the field?

dolphinmickey9170
10-29-2007, 12:18 PM
Not sure how much football you watch, but for ... oh maybe the last 100 years or so ... when teams have a big lead they RUN THE BALL!

I mean it's not like they had a small lead that could slip away. They were up by 40 POINTS in the 4th quarter. The game was put away and had been for a long time. Yet they still threw the ball downfield and even went for it on FOURTH DOWN at one point.

Look ... you can be a Pats fan and defend them if you want, but I can 100% assure you that virtually everyone on the planet knows that what they're doing is wrong and totally classless. It's been wrong in the NFL as long as the NFL has existed (and before that, as a matter of fact). It's not a grey area. You don't run up the score. Period.

And I'll tell you something. At some point, they're going to go up against the wrong coach or the wrong player and they're going to be made to pay. Someone's going to take a cheap shot at Brady or Moss or something. They're as complicit in this whole thing as Belichek is.

And something else ... the Colts show everyone how it's done. This season, even though they're the defending champs, they've had to sit back and listen to everyone talk about the Patriots. They haven't said a peep and have just gone about their business.

This coming weekend, when the two teams play each other, you can bet I'll be solidly behind the Colts. They may not win the game, but (as Christine already said) they won the class battle a long time ago. Tony Dungy has more class in his pinky finger than Belichek has in his entire body.

My comment wasn't meant as a derogatory remark toward you. I didn't know I needed to be scolded, which is how you have come across. I wasn't trying to be sarcastic or obnoxious. I was just asking a simple question. I have only the basic knowledge of football, I guess. I have been a fan since I was a yong girl. I appologize for not being completly knowledged on everything...and will furthermore, keep my thoughts and comments on football to my immediate family.

Donald A
10-29-2007, 12:19 PM
And something else ... the Colts show everyone how it's done. This season, even though they're the defending champs, they've had to sit back and listen to everyone talk about the Patriots. They haven't said a peep and have just gone about their business.

This coming weekend, when the two teams play each other, you can bet I'll be solidly behind the Colts. They may not win the game, but (as Christine already said) they won the class battle a long time ago. Tony Dungy has more class in his pinky finger than Belichek has in his entire body.

My heart has always been with the Browns (I grew up in NE Ohio) and I actually haven't got on the Colts bandwagon. It's funny too, because the Colts practice like 3 miles from my house.

One thing I can say about the Colts is I have never, ever questioned their class. About the only thing you can say bad about Tony Dungy is he is not emotional enough, but even that isn't a bad thing as, honestly, there are more important things in this world than football. Everyone I talk to (including patients who go to his church) say Coach Dungy is the same on the field as off.

Sunday is probably going to be one heck of a football game. If I was a betting man I would say the Patriots are probably going to win. I know it sounds like an elem. school pep talk, but the Colts are the true winners because the class and character they have is much more important to me than a stupid game with one winner and one loser.

I should say, I have read these posts and there is a lot of passion there. I want to assure everyone who reads my posts that I am not saying anything bad about the Patriots fans and certainly nothing bad about people who frequent this board. I think what happens is people are passionate for their team and take stuff personal. First and foremost, I want everyone to know I mean no personal disrespect. This is just discussion from someone who thinks the way the Patriots operate is wrong.

dolphinmickey9170
10-29-2007, 12:36 PM
The Colts haven't had to say anything. They don't have people looking to take them down or making threads about how it's so unfair that they score points in a game. Even as defending champs, they don't have the same kind of Superbowl record in recent years to bring out the haters.

You didn't jump out to accuse the Colts of the same thing in week one, when they kept on scoring against a defeated New Orleans 41-10. And not a word when San Diego handed Denver their most lopsided home loss since '66, 41-3. But the Patriots keep on scoring and it's a big terrible thing to do? I agree that it did seem a bit much and the Redskins were clearly outplayed, but wouldn't it have been insulting for the Patriots to give anything less than their best on the field?

I agree Sherri.

Ian
10-29-2007, 12:36 PM
The Colts haven't had to say anything. They don't have people looking to take them down or making threads about how it's so unfair that they score points in a game. Even as defending champs, they don't have the same kind of Superbowl record in recent years to bring out the haters.

You didn't jump out to accuse the Colts of the same thing in week one, when they kept on scoring against a defeated New Orleans 41-10. And not a word when San Diego handed Denver their most lopsided home loss since '66, 41-3. But the Patriots keep on scoring and it's a big terrible thing to do? I agree that it did seem a bit much and the Redskins were clearly outplayed, but wouldn't it have been insulting for the Patriots to give anything less than their best on the field?I can tell based on your responses that attempting to sway your opinion on this is fruitless. You're clearly a Pats fan and will defend your team regardless of what they do or say.

Therefore, I don't really think it's going to be productive for me to respond to your post point by point. Suffice it to say that there are times when it is reasonable to continue scoring in a game and times when it isn't. The Pats do it when it isn't.


My comment wasn't meant as a derogatory remark toward you. I didn't know I needed to be scolded, which is how you have come across. I wasn't trying to be sarcastic or obnoxious. I was just asking a simple question. I have only the basic knowledge of football, I guess. I have been a fan since I was a yong girl. I appologize for not being completly knowledged on everything...and will furthermore, keep my thoughts and comments on football to my immediate family.I didn't intend to scold you. Your post sounded to me like you were defending the Pats by saying it was okay for them to run up the score.

If you weren't aware that running up the score his highly frowned upon in the NFL, then I apologize. I must have mis-interpreted your tone.

#1donaldfan
10-29-2007, 12:41 PM
All I can say is "every dog has their day" !!!! We may not see it for years, but eventually it'll come and when it does, I may just sit back and laugh.......

Jeff
10-29-2007, 12:47 PM
Here's the reason why the Pats are still throwing with the starters in during a blow-out:

Bill Belichek has Tom Brady on his Fantasy Football Team.;)

dolphinmickey9170
10-29-2007, 12:48 PM
Ian, your appology is accepted. And no, I was not aware that running up the score was a problem. And I also wasn't trying to imply a "tone" either. As previously stated, I am not totally up on of all the rules. I still have to ask my DH what something meant, especially since they are using new terms when they call the penalties. So I understand your point now. Next Sunday's game will be very interesting. I just hope it is a fair and non-injury laden game. You can bet I'll be watching.

Not only has my comment been construed wrong here, but as well in the Red Sox thread. So, I guess I just need to stay out of these. This way, I don't get myself into trouble.:blush:

Maleficent's Dad
10-29-2007, 12:48 PM
Apparently Ian's not the only one thinking that what the Pats did was wrong.

ESPN ripped them today. There's quite a piece by Mark Schlereth which absolutely lambastes Belichick for his calls during the game. And that's just one segment.

There's plenty about it online, otherwise check out Sportscenter on TV.

Most seem to agree on this much: The Patriots are a GREAT team. But their on-field actions on Sunday were low-class.

Hammer
10-29-2007, 12:48 PM
You didn't jump out to accuse the Colts of the same thing in week one, when they kept on scoring against a defeated New Orleans 41-10. And not a word when San Diego handed Denver their most lopsided home loss since '66, 41-3. But the Patriots keep on scoring and it's a big terrible thing to do? I agree that it did seem a bit much and the Redskins were clearly outplayed, but wouldn't it have been insulting for the Patriots to give anything less than their best on the field?

Sherri, I just went on NFL.com and read the recap of both games you mentioned. Honestly, don't know what Norv Turner was thinking, but I rarely ever do. I was rooting for Denver in that game. With the Colts first game of the season, the score was 24-10 at the start of the 4th quarter. Nice lead, but hardly insurmountable. Viniteri kicks a field goal, making it 27-10. The Colts scored a touchdown after eating up close to 3 minutes on a 5 play drive. The Indy defense scored the final TD on 83 yard interception return.

Maleficent's Dad
10-29-2007, 12:51 PM
Here's the reason why the Pats are still throwing with the starters in during a blow-out:

Bill Belichek has Tom Brady on his Fantasy Football Team.;)
:funny: :rotfl: :funny:

Ian
10-29-2007, 12:59 PM
Here's the reason why the Pats are still throwing with the starters in during a blow-out:

Bill Belichek has Tom Brady on his Fantasy Football Team.;)You know you laugh, but while it's certainly a lesser consideration, I do find it annoying that Tom Brady wracks up all these fantasy points largely because they're throwing when they shouldn't be.


Not only has my comment been construed wrong here, but as well in the Red Sox thread. So, I guess I just need to stay out of these. This way, I don't get myself into trouble.:blush:Now see the Red Sox are a team I can get behind. They're my AL team all the way. I was totally rooting for them to win the Series.

And as far as being misconstrued goes, don't let it worry you. That's the risk that comes with communicating in writing sometimes. Tone can be very difficult to discern. That's why email is so dangerous!

Ian
10-29-2007, 01:05 PM
Honestly, don't know what Norv Turner was thinking, but I rarely ever do. I was rooting for Denver in that game.With the Colts first game of the season, the score was 24-10 at the start of the 4th quarter. Nice lead, but hardly insurmountable. Viniteri kicks a field goal, making it 27-10. The Colts scored a touchdown after eating up close to 3 minutes on a 5 play drive. The Indy defense scored the final TD on 83 yard interception return.There's a huge difference between 24-10 and what amounted to 40-0.

As far as the San Diego game, I'm not excusing what they did, but it was also vastly different from the Pats game.

First of all, it was the first game of the season where the Chargers really got anything going. I think Turner may have let things get away from him a little bit in his excitement.

Remember, they were 1-3 at that point and had scored over 20 points only once. Conversely, their defense had given up 30 or more points in three of those games. Turner had a legitimate reason to give himself a cushion.

Also ... and this is a very important distinction ... the Chargers and Broncos are not only in the same Conference, they're in the same division! That's a huge difference from being an undefeated team, who's outscoring opponents by 3 touchdowns a game, playing a non-Conference team.

Edited to add two points:

1. Apparently, the Patriots also pulled the old "Oops the opposing team's headsets mysteriously stopped functioning." trick again. ESPN reports that. "
To make matters worse, Gibbs and the coaches lost their communication system during the game. They couldn't work the headsets."

2. Belichek is rampantly unapologetic. This is what he said when he was asked about it:

"I've been coaching too long," Belichick said. "I remember being on that side. When I was coaching defense it was my job to keep the score down, not theirs. When you're playing defense it's your job to stop them. It's not [the offense's] job to not score. It's like I tell the offense, what the [expletive] do you think I send you guys out there for? To punt? We have a punt team for that. That's not your job. Your job is to go out there and score points. If you come off the field and you haven't scored points you haven't done your job."

Classy, Bill ... very classy ... :rolleyes:

PirateLover
10-29-2007, 01:21 PM
Hmm. I opened up this reply box out of habit, I guess but I have to think about what I say. First of all, didn't there used to be a sticky in this forum with the rules? I believe it gave a warning that sports debates could get heated, don't take things personal etc.

The nature of sports, on every level, is that is super competitive. The fans are sometimes more competitive than the players! As a Philly fan, I have been on the side of being hated. Unfortunately for me, in my lifetime we have never been hated because we had good teams, just because people see us as fans to be boorish drunks who do nothing but cause problems. And yes I get my back up against the wall and defend my city any time it is maligned. So in a way I get the impassioned responses from Pats fans.

Prior to this year, I was a Pats admirer. Now I am just left really confused. Is Belichik simply a genius, or a nefarious mastermind? I have heard a theory that they might've been caught on purpose cheating, to give the team something extra to fight for. That he knew with Mangini gone to another team the truth would come out eventually and it was better to let it get exposed and then have something to prove to the world in going undefeated. I don't know that I believe this theory, but certainly since that incident the Pats have just been on a tear and play every game like it's the Super Bowl. Not that that's a bad thing, I wish my team would play like that, but it's just rare in pro sports these days.

As far as running up the score, it is frowned upon in every level of sports. Youth leagues often have "mercy rules" where the game is simply ended when you've reached an insurmountable lead.
Lets look at their scores this year:
38-14, 38-14, 38-7, 34-14, 34-17, 48-27, 49-28, 52-7.

The last one is by far the worst, and I don't think you can argue that they ran up the score. You are free to argue whether that is a sign of class or whatever, but if 52-7 isn't running up the score, I don't know what is. Yes, I think every team has a game where they get carried away and score a lot of points. Heck the Eagles had a game this year in which I believe the final score was 56-28. But look at the rest of their abysmal season. It was a fluke. Same goes with most of the other examples one could come up with. But the Pats do it practically every week. No one is saying that they shouldn't score points, and their prolific offense honestly didn't bother me much until this week. But they downright embarrassed the Redskins, and at the end of the day, I think it was wrong.

OK I'm done!!!!

Ian
10-29-2007, 01:30 PM
Heck the Eagles had a game this year in which I believe the final score was 56-28.In fairness, though, that game was closer than the score would make it appear.

Once they knew they had it salted away, they brought in Kevin Kolb, rested McNabb, rested Westbrook, etc.

PirateLover
10-29-2007, 01:38 PM
In fairness, though, that game was closer than the score would make it appear.

Once they knew they had it salted away, they brought in Kevin Kolb, rested McNabb, rested Westbrook, etc.

Correct, that was kind of my point but I don't think I was clear enough. Lots of teams have games in which they score many points, but it is the fashion in which it is done that is the difference. The final scores aren't always indicators of how the entire game went. I actually remember the commentators in that game saying something about how you don't want to start running up the score and then voila, in comes the backups.

GothMickey
10-29-2007, 01:43 PM
Bill Belichek and class do not belong in the same sentence. Belichek is the most classless, trashiest, and bush league coach in football. They have a good team. There is no need to run the score up.

SBETigg
10-29-2007, 01:51 PM
I can tell based on your responses that attempting to sway your opinion on this is fruitless. You're clearly a Pats fan and will defend your team regardless of what they do or say.

If you weren't aware that running up the score his highly frowned upon in the NFL, then I apologize. I must have mis-interpreted your tone.

I am a fan, and a little defensive, but I was just as horrified and embarrassed by the earlier cheating allegations as anyone else, not defending that at all. This is different for me. You said it was an unwritten rule, which means it's really not a rule and not frowned on in any official way. Unofficially, perhaps, and I can agree that it just doesn't seem nice. I also think that people look for things to sneer at with the Patriots that they will easily forgive in other teams. I still don't think this would have even been an issue for you if it wasn't the Pats.

In the spirit of good sportsmanship, I can also add that Belichick could at least wear a nice sweatshirt to games. So he isn't a suit guy, okay, but the sweatshirt with cut-off sleeves, no less? Sheesh, Bill, I wouldn't wear that to the grocery store let alone in a professional environment. :blush: Okay? Better? :thumbsup:

dolphinmickey9170
10-29-2007, 02:08 PM
Ok, so this is a "Help me to understand" question. If the running up the score is frowned upon, doesn't it also mean it isn't a written rule? And is this just feelings? Now that I have been schooled and understand what running up the score is, I want to know the written or just understood rules. If it is something that is frowned upon, than I completely and whole-heartedly agree with you. However, if it is a written rule that no team shall run up the score, than why isn't something done about it? Are there penalties given? Please help me understand?!?

Again, I am asking in the "teach me" sense. Thank you all for your teaching the unlearnable:D!! That would be me!!

PirateLover
10-29-2007, 02:15 PM
Kristen, there are no official rules or penalities associated with running up the score in th NFL. When we use the term "frowned upon" it just means that the general sporting population thinks it is bad practice and should not be done. However there is no punishment and teams are free to do as they wish, but generally once you've reached a certain lead, teams will change their strategies or put in 2nd stringers so as not to continue scoring needless points and embarrass the other team.

Ian
10-29-2007, 02:24 PM
This is different for me. You said it was an unwritten rule, which means it's really not a rule and not frowned on in any official way. Unofficially, perhaps, and I can agree that it just doesn't seem nice. I also think that people look for things to sneer at with the Patriots that they will easily forgive in other teams. I still don't think this would have even been an issue for you if it wasn't the Pats.Truth be told, it's not an issue for other teams because other teams don't do it.

Unwritten rules are, in many cases, more important than the written rules. Sportsmanship is something that's taught from Little League on up. Apparently, Bill skipped that class at Evil Genius U.


Ok, so this is a "Help me to understand" question. If the running up the score is frowned upon, doesn't it also mean it isn't a written rule? And is this just feelings? Now that I have been schooled and understand what running up the score is, I want to know the written or just understood rules. If it is something that is frowned upon, than I completely and whole-heartedly agree with you. However, if it is a written rule that no team shall run up the score, than why isn't something done about it? Are there penalties given? Please help me understand?!?

Again, I am asking in the "teach me" sense. Thank you all for your teaching the unlearnable:D!! That would be me!!It's really all about sportsmanship. You don't humiliate another team and run up the score on them, because it's classless and wrong. I don't think the NFL feels they need a rule on it, because everyone except Belichek gets it.

The stories on ESPN are clear. He's explicitly doing it on purpose because he's having a temper tantrum about being outed as a cheater.

And yesterday's game was made even worse by the fact that he insulted a Hall of Fame coach who's universally regarded as one of the greatest (and classiest) head coaches of all time. Heck, Gibbs wouldn't even say anything bad about the way Belichek treated them!! Although his team certainly had something to say about it.

The ironic thing is is that Belichek may think he's bulletproof in all this, but it could very easily bite him down the road. Wait until his Hall of Fame ballot comes up and see how quickly the sportswriters are ready to send him to Canton.

dolphinmickey9170
10-29-2007, 03:05 PM
Thanks, Ian and PirateLover! I appreciate your helping me understand. Since you put it that way, things seem clearer as to what you were saying. I now understand what you are saying.

goofhook
10-29-2007, 03:25 PM
Just to bring another side in ( don't know if someone mentioned it, because everyone wrote about 5 paragraphs ) but how could the Patriots manage to score all the points on the Redskins? I think the D just gave up, and to a point where the Dolphins could of probably put up 50 points.

goofhook
10-29-2007, 03:29 PM
I forogt how to edit a post, but the only thing the skins could really do good is stop the run, and knock you out with their safties. So, I think the Pats made the right decision. ( I make these kinds of decisions of running up the score in Madden too. )

JPL
10-29-2007, 03:45 PM
There is only 1 occaision in the NFL where running up the score is acceptable and that the final game of the season if you know your playoff position relies on the point differential tie breaker and this is so unlikely to happen that it would take a major alignment of the planets.

For those of you who regularly watch football you understand the concept of taking a knee. How many times is a team up by more than 8 points at the end of the game get the ball in either field goal range or in the red zones on downs. What do they do? Take a knee and relax and let the clock run out. If there is more time left in the game you take out your starters and rest them to prevent injuries and help out the morale of your 2nd and 3rd string players by giving them playing time as a reward for their hard work. I hate to wish injuries on anyone but maybe a key player going down will wake up the Pats.

Epc0tphr34k
10-29-2007, 03:49 PM
i'm of 2 minds on this. on one hand you don't let off your opponents throat when having a lead. rememebr the monday night game when the buccs were up huge on the colts and let off the gas. on the other hand when you are up like that you can modify your strategy if your not gonna run then run some high percentage pass plays, screens and 5-10 yard slants and come backs. I think the smug looks on brady's face and bellichek's face were a little much. Like i said in a past post the Pats have let success go to their head, they think they are untouchable. They have gone from the lovable everyman to the bully.

Ian
10-29-2007, 04:13 PM
They have gone from the lovable everyman to the bully.Honestly, I think this is why it upsets me so much.

As I mentioned in my original post, I used to really be a Patriots fan. I hotly defended Tom Brady whenever anyone would say he wasn't the best QB in football. I openly admire the Pats franchise and, on numerous occasions, said to friends and family members how I wished the Eagles could be as successful as they were.

Now, though ... I'll take the Eagles losing with class over what the Pats are doing any day of the week.

goofhook
10-29-2007, 07:47 PM
Honestly, I think this is why it upsets me so much.

As I mentioned in my original post, I used to really be a Patriots fan. I hotly defended Tom Brady whenever anyone would say he wasn't the best QB in football. I openly admire the Pats franchise and, on numerous occasions, said to friends and family members how I wished the Eagles could be as successful as they were.

Now, though ... I'll take the Eagles losing with class over what the Pats are doing any day of the week.
I'll second that, unless if we lose with class to a team such as the dolphins. ( can't help but keep picking on them. )

Tiggerdog
10-29-2007, 08:58 PM
As a Bronco fan ( I can still name every player from the 1978 Superbowl team :blush: ), I feel the need to chime in on the Bronco - Charger game:

The Broncos deserved it. They needed a good kick in the rear. I did not hear one person complain about the Chargers running up the score, and I work with even bigger Broncomaniacs than I am. While we haven't given up on the team this year, we have been very disappointed by the play on the field and the behaviors off the field.

And may I add, why did I pass up Brady in our Fantasy Football league? :mad: ;)

battlefield2freak
10-29-2007, 09:41 PM
The Colts haven't had to say anything. They don't have people looking to take them down or making threads about how it's so unfair that they score points in a game. Even as defending champs, they don't have the same kind of Superbowl record in recent years to bring out the haters.

You didn't jump out to accuse the Colts of the same thing in week one, when they kept on scoring against a defeated New Orleans 41-10. And not a word when San Diego handed Denver their most lopsided home loss since '66, 41-3. But the Patriots keep on scoring and it's a big terrible thing to do? I agree that it did seem a bit much and the Redskins were clearly outplayed, but wouldn't it have been insulting for the Patriots to give anything less than their best on the field?

thank you for pointing out that game with the colts just racketing up points agaisnt new orleans. i watched that game yesterday and they didnt run the score up. first of all the brought brady out of the game as usual and like they said on MNF countdown you dont just stop and give washington the ball. yes the patriots could have gone for the shut out by keeping brady in the game but no they brought him out and put cassel in which allowed the washington TD.

and they arent running the ball very much lately for a big reason. maroney is coming off groin injury, morris just suffered a chest injury so tats basically or running game. also what aout the defense? 3 forced fumbles (1 returned for a TD) and 1 INT aslo complimented by 3 sacks so stop targeing only the offense when the defense are stoping them every down amost. as a side note 17 pts. off those fumbles

im really under the impression many people on intercot just hate the patriots and will be as nasty as they can be to their fans and i dont appreciate that at all. you all need to understand that just because there is a football team that knows how to get the job done on both sides of the ball and dominate teams because they have some of the best players in the NFL dont get mad at us fans if you got a complaint take it to the NFL not here so stop trying to bring up the same old stuff again and again.

dolphinmickey9170
10-29-2007, 09:43 PM
thank you for pointing out that game with the colts just racketing up points agaisnt new orleans. i watched that game yesterday and they didnt run the score up. first of all the brought brady out of the game as usual and like they said on MNF countdown you dont just stop and give washington the ball. yes the patriots could have gone for the shut out by keeping brady in the game but no they brought him out and put cassel in which allowed the washington TD.

im really under the impression many people on intercot just hate the patriots and will be as nasty as they can be to their fans and i dont appreciate that at all. you all need to understand that just because there is a football team that knows how to get the job done on both sides of the ball and dominate teams because they have some of the best players in the NFL dont get mad at us fans if you got a complaint take it to the NFL not here

Well said Austin!!

battlefield2freak
10-29-2007, 10:05 PM
Well said Austin!!

thank you very much. because nohing gets under my skin more then haters. i can go on for days and thats only what i was able to say in a few minutes of furious typing. for one there is no proof of running up the score at all so thats what really sets me off when people can go out and make allegations of running the score up with no proof then adding fuel to my fire making direct hateful atacks on me and the other patriots fans jsut for defending our favoite team which just so happens to be beating everyone else in the NFL and are on a course to win superbowl and the only team that can heavily contest a patriot win would be the colts. when i first heard the schedule this year i thought it would be chargers, cowboys, colts, ravens but things have been turned around drastically. just so you get the point, ME nor any other patriot fan on the intercot site appreciates how you all can make all these comments on us but when we defend outrself a mod tells us to calm down ad not a thing was done about the personal attack toward us.

PirateLover
10-29-2007, 10:25 PM
battlefield2freak- I'm sorry, but you are overreacting. First of all, I just went back and re-read this entire thread. I think that almost everyone has gone out of their way to say that they are not attacking Pats fans. This is a sports board and we are debating the practices of the team and the organization, not the fans. In fact almost every single one of us has said we LIKED the Pats, but question their tactics this year. Is the spotlight on them more? Of COURSE it is! How can it not be with the cheating scandal, and Belichick's smug attitude the whole season. But Ian DID give examples of why he thought they ran up the score. Please quote all of these "hateful" attacks that you speak of because I only saw maybe one or two posts in the entire thread that might be considered hateful, and one poster even came back on later and clarified their statements. So I take offense to you labeling us all as nasty haters just because we have something negative to say about your favorite team, because I see no evidence of that.

JPL
10-29-2007, 10:42 PM
ME nor any other patriot fan on the intercot site appreciates how you all can make all these comments on us but when we defend outrself a mod tells us to calm down ad not a thing was done about the personal attack toward us.

Nobody has attacked Patriot fans in this thread they attacked the organization and it's questionable practices this season. I did not see a personal attack on you or any other Pats fan. If you feel you have been please point it out to me and I will look at the post.
Do I hate the Patriots? not really and I really have nothing against their fans. I have to say that being a Giant Fan I was always routing for Belicek since he did help us win a Superbowl. But I have lostll my respect for him and the organization as a whole after the action this season.

Look at this way Pats fan are now in the same league as Yankee, Cowboys and basically any other team that has been successful and done something controversial.

DizneyFreak2002
10-29-2007, 10:48 PM
Battlefield, I had a post removed in the Red Sox thead, and it was rightfully removed.... I read this thread and saw no attacks on the Patriots fans... But, after getting caught, how can someone not question Belichik??? He has never displayed any class... Even when he resigned as "HC" of the Jets.... The mods do a great job on this board.... If they saw something that attacked you, or the fans, they would have removed it...

JPL
10-29-2007, 10:52 PM
Moderator Note:

Let's get this discussion back on topic please. Just remember people have differing opinions on the subject at hand and as far as I can see it has been discussed very respectfully. Let's not head down a road where this topic has to be closed.

Maleficent's Dad
10-30-2007, 09:56 AM
Okay, while I don't agree with it entirely, ESPN is now coming to the defense of Belichick. Here's one of the "articles" posted by Matt Mosley on ESPN's website. I believe it was written in jest! ;)

League To Discuss Pats Mercy Rule
October 29, 2007 2:31 PM

In order to protect teams from Bill Belichick, the league is considering a rule that would prevent the Patriots from throwing passes longer than five yards once they gain a four-touchdown lead.

If the opposing team makes it a three-score game, the Patriots would be allowed to file an appeal for "more creative routes," but receivers Randy Moss and Wes Welker are no longer allowed to be on the field together in the second half.

League officials hope the new rule, dubbed "The Other Brady Bill," will provide more acceptable final scores, and improve the self-esteem of players across the league.

JPL
10-30-2007, 10:21 AM
I understand it was written in jest but making a joke of it also doesn't help the situation. I believe it actually makes it worse.

Maleficent's Dad
10-30-2007, 11:00 AM
I understand it was written in jest but making a joke of it also doesn't help the situation. I believe it actually makes it worse.
Sorry Jeff, I was just trying to lighten the mood here! :blush:

JPL
10-30-2007, 11:06 AM
Sorry misunderstood I thought ESPN worte it in Jest I know they sometimes do things like especially in the editorials. This is what happens when you are posting half asleep at work during a boring day :blush:

Ian
10-30-2007, 11:33 AM
Folks, there's a big difference between criticizing a team's behavior (which is what's being done here) and personal attacks or attacks on their fans (which has not occurred here).

My suggestion is if you don't want to read negative things about your team, don't read a thread called "Patriots and Running Up the Score." or any other thread with a similar title.

I will say that if anyone can point out a personal attack, on either side, in this thread, I or one of the other forum mods will gladly address it.

Lastly ... this is the Sports forum. As has been mentioned many times previously, the rules are a little different in here than they are on the rest of our boards.

Again ... if you don't want to play by the modified rules, don't visit this board.

caryrae
10-30-2007, 01:18 PM
All I can say is "GO VIKINGS

Oh wait my teams is only 2 and 5. I guess I don't have to worry about them running up the score.:(

battlefield2freak
10-30-2007, 03:19 PM
battlefield2freak- I'm sorry, but you are overreacting. First of all, I just went back and re-read this entire thread. I think that almost everyone has gone out of their way to say that they are not attacking Pats fans. This is a sports board and we are debating the practices of the team and the organization, not the fans. In fact almost every single one of us has said we LIKED the Pats, but question their tactics this year. Is the spotlight on them more? Of COURSE it is! How can it not be with the cheating scandal, and Belichick's smug attitude the whole season. But Ian DID give examples of why he thought they ran up the score. Please quote all of these "hateful" attacks that you speak of because I only saw maybe one or two posts in the entire thread that might be considered hateful, and one poster even came back on later and clarified their statements. So I take offense to you labeling us all as nasty haters just because we have something negative to say about your favorite team, because I see no evidence of that.


no im including the thread over the cheating scandal from week 1 against the jets, and there is more examples than that aswell. and why do we need to show the mods these hateful attacks its your job to find them isnt it? and i read this because this involves my favorite team. you would read the same thing if the title was htis for example "(insert fav. team here) and Running Up the Score" now wouldnt you

Epc0tphr34k
10-30-2007, 03:41 PM
let me solve the mystery. I am sure austin is referencing my observations of NE sports fans in general in the previous post. pretty sure i was also spoken to by one of the mods in a PM about the comment. also believe that i stated it was not directed at anyone here

let me also say i appologise for anything i said in the past it was not meant to offend was meerly an observation

battlefield2freak
10-30-2007, 03:52 PM
let me solve the mystery. I am sure austin is referencing my observations of NE sports fans in general in the previous post. pretty sure i was also spoken to by one of the mods in a PM about the comment. also believe that i stated it was not directed at anyone here

let me also say i appologise for anything i said in the past it was not meant to offend was meerly an observation

well yes i was reffering to that and something else. i just realized why is everyone complaining about this when the nfl hasnt even said a thing.

one observation u can make from that game was the redskins kept giving the patriots the ball and they was playing with a new QB so this really wasnt a big surprise to see them rout the redskins. when you get the ball your intentions are to score points even if you are out in the lead.

Epc0tphr34k
10-30-2007, 04:03 PM
one observation u can make from that game was the redskins kept giving the patriots the ball and they was playing with a new QB so this really wasnt a big surprise to see them rout the redskins. when you get the ball your intentions are to score points even if you are out in the lead.

given. i don't think anyone expected the skins to beat the patriots. its more of a respect thing however you don't dial up a homerun ball kinda pass when you are up that far. You let the other team attempt to keep some dignity. we're not saying they should't beat them. its more of saying you don't kick a man when he is down. and as i said in the last post had the eagles or the buccs smuggly tried to run up the score i would be ashamed to say i was a fan. You pointed out earlier how well the Defense was doing well if you are that confident in your defense you can run the ball with your 3rd string guy just to kill clock that is more of what is being said than they should have put on the breaks. and there are several sports reporters showing disdain for the act as well.

you would prolly be surprised to know i cheered for the pats in 2 of their 3 superbowls and also the only team i hate and will cheer for under no circumstances is the skins. it made me sick when laverneus coles was there because he is one of my favorite players

battlefield2freak
10-30-2007, 04:10 PM
given. i don't think anyone expected the skins to beat the patriots. its more of a respect thing however you don't dial up a homerun ball kinda pass when you are up that far. You let the other team attempt to keep some dignity. we're not saying they should't beat them. its more of saying you don't kick a man when he is down. and as i said in the last post had the eagles or the buccs smuggly tried to run up the score i would be ashamed to say i was a fan. You pointed out earlier how well the Defense was doing well if you are that confident in your defense you can run the ball with your 3rd string guy just to kill clock that is more of what is being said than they should have put on the breaks. and there are several sports reporters showing disdain for the act as well.

you would prolly be surprised to know i cheered for the pats in 2 of their 3 superbowls and also the only team i hate and will cheer for under no circumstances is the skins. it made me sick when laverneus coles was there because he is one of my favorite players

well i dont think anyone picked them either. but the one person that lit the fuse for me is that redskin who was mad at belichick beacuse he was just doing his job and they are geting paid to stop the patriots and vice versa and there was plenty of times washington could have stoped the patriots around the end when they brought brady out

Ian
10-30-2007, 05:47 PM
and i read this because this involves my favorite team. you would read the same thing if the title was htis for example "(insert fav. team here) and Running Up the Score" now wouldnt youNo one is begrudging you the right to read the thread.

What I am begrudging you is the right to read the thread and then get so angry that some people hold these opinions about your team that you flip out. If you can't handle justifiable criticism of your team then you need to avoid these threads.

And just to be clear ... I reviewed this entire thread and saw not one post that I considered a personal attack. That's why I asked you to point them out to me.

The Reservoir Dog
10-31-2007, 04:15 PM
I've been reading these comments with much interest and even more surprise. I never new of any unwritten rule of "Running up points" but I really do not see anything wrong with it.

I'll put it this way. If I'm going to spend £50 to go and see my team play i want to see them obliterate the opposition. If it's my team that's being obliterated then so be it. Patriot fans must be revelling in their teams performances every week and good for them. If the other team aren't good enough then it's tough luck. It's up to the other team to improve.

I'm a Raiders fan so I've got nothing to crow about but if we beat another team by 50 points, majestically spraying the ball to wide receivers in the end zone I certainly won't be worrying about the other team.

I don't believe in "unwritten rules" It goes along with armchair quarterbacks who predict the outcome of the game the day after it's played.
There are rules and that's it.

caryrae
10-31-2007, 04:40 PM
I think it's the fans that worry about this more then the players. Sure they would love to win every game and the Super Bowl but win or lose even lose big time but they still get to go home to there Mansions and big expensive cars and put there huge diamond earrings on. Maybe if ya look at like if NE plays their best the whole game it gives the other teams more of a chance to learn how to play them and it gives the starters more of chance to get hurt.

RAIDER
10-31-2007, 04:47 PM
These players earn alot of money probably more than us will probably ever earn in our lifetime. So there paid to do a job . I have absolutley no problem with the Patriots or infact any other team showing how good they are .Infact it means all the other teams have to step up another level to which that can only be good for the game .

People pay to see their team win and neutrals like to see a team inform .... To say or hint that a team should go down a gear or feel basically sorry for that team and stop scoring or stop their game plan is the most ludicrious thing i have heard ..especially in a team sport

The only time i would possibly agree to something like that is in a one sided boxing fight or something along those lines .

:twocents:

caryrae
10-31-2007, 04:54 PM
Look how many College and High School football games are totally lopsided. Seems like every week there's scores like 50-60 to 7 or something like that.

Look at some of these scores from college games, 42-9, 56-3, 58-10, 64-12, 48-3, 58-0 but I never here anything about those teams running up the score and I only looked at 2 weeks worth of games.

Here are some of the most lopsided scores this year 59-0, 59-3, 63-6, another 59-0, 79-10, 73-10. Why is what the NE Pats did worse then these games? I don't see much difference between College football and the NFL.

battlefield2freak
10-31-2007, 05:21 PM
i can remember one high school games i went to just recently. the score at the start of the 3rd: 63 - 7 the final ended up being 85 - 10. i agree with raider completely. i mean the players are getting paid to play there very best so they arent going to stop to let up on them.

Ian
10-31-2007, 05:40 PM
Look how many College and High School football games are totally lopsided. Seems like every week there's scores like 50-60 to 7 or something like that .... I don't see much difference between College football and the NFL.Actually, there's a huge difference. It's called the BCS.

In college football, margin of victory is a key stat that's taken into account in the BCS rankings, therefore, running up the score is not only acceptable it's necessary to ensure good Bowl positioning.

Don Banks wrote a great column today at SI.com discussing why it's not accepted in the NFL:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/don_banks/10/30/pats.running.up/index.html?bcnn=yes

caryrae
10-31-2007, 06:03 PM
Actually, there's a huge difference. It's called the BCS.

In college football, margin of victory is a key stat that's taken into account in the BCS rankings, therefore, running up the score is not only acceptable it's necessary to ensure good Bowl positioning.

Don Banks wrote a great column today at SI.com discussing why it's not accepted in the NFL:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/don_banks/10/30/pats.running.up/index.html?bcnn=yes

A little :offtopic:I am not a big watcher of college football so I don't know many of the rules. Why can't the rules be closer to the same as NFL rules since most or all of NFL players played college football. Is it different (like having so many bowl games compared to 1 in the NFL) because college players only play a short number of years?

Epc0tphr34k
10-31-2007, 06:11 PM
i don't think anyone is asking the players to play half speed. I certainly wouldn't ask them to do that because being an ex athlete and being injured in that particular way i know that when you go half way its that is when the injuries come. as much as there are several players i would like to see take a a big pop in the mouth or driven into the ground i don't want anyone hurt seriously. the running up the score comes from questionable calls like going on 4th when you are up big to "give the other team a chance to stop you" instead of kicking the feild goal or dialing up a 50 yd pass play when up big, you don't need to do that. Play hard but play smart and respectful.


The above quote was based from a sports reporter not the patriots


huh, i think this is one of the first times Ian and I have been on the same side of a debate. Even debates on our shared favorite team

Epc0tphr34k
10-31-2007, 06:23 PM
Why can't the rules be closer to the same as NFL rules since most or all of NFL players played college football. Is it different (like having so many bowl games compared to 1 in the NFL) because college players only play a short number of years?

some of the rules are to make it easier to account for the broader spreading of talent. as far as the way the bcs is its based off the fact that you have so many teams and so many divisions how can you know who truly is the best you can't play everyone. A tourrnament style play off brings up the same question and in a contact sport its hard to do something like march madness without dragging the season out too far. the bcs is based on a formula rather than opinion and as Ian said margin of victory is part of that formula this kind of tells you mathematically who is the best team cause it also takes in to account strength of schedule and other factors. hope that explains it better, the bcs is kinda complicated and but it basically breaks down to more teams makes it more complicated to find a true number 1 team without bringing opinion into it

Ian
10-31-2007, 06:25 PM
A little :offtopic:I am not a big watcher of college football so I don't know many of the rules. Why can't the rules be closer to the same as NFL rules since most or all of NFL players played college football. Is it different (like having so many bowl games compared to 1 in the NFL) because college players only play a short number of years?Honestly? The real answer is money. Bowl games = huge money for colleges and they want opportunities for the maximum numbers of teams to play in Bowls.

RAIDER
10-31-2007, 07:00 PM
For me The New England coach is paid big bucks to win the superbowl ..He has not cheated in the last game ( to which i think we all agree ) apprantley the only crime he has commited to some is "break a rule that ACTUALLY doesnt exist in the nfl rule book " ...By scoring loads of points in whatever fashion ....

If i was a Patriots fan and they do go out and get revenge on the Colts away from home and make a statement and the tactic of winning in the fashion that they did last week motivates their players ... Then i take my hat off to the NE coach .For he has motivated his team and his fans and also surely put the Colts on the backfoot on their own turf ....

I applaud him and i applaud New England players for having the skill to win in such fashion ...Cos i wish my team ( RAIDERS) could ....

Again i state these people are paid alot of money to entertain and play at their best ...Its up to the rest of the teams to step up to their level and not whinge

The Reservoir Dog
10-31-2007, 07:08 PM
This brings the question that if a team goes 40 points up why should they then lower their standards.

Raider makes a good point. These players are paid alot of money to entertain and we the supporter pay alot of money for the pleasure.
The New England team should be applauded for giving their fans and football lovers as a whole the sparkling entertainment. After all this is what we pay our money for.

battlefield2freak
10-31-2007, 08:57 PM
this brings up the colts. the patriots have alot of respect for their opponets wether they show it or not. take the cowboys game in week 6 they was all out there having a good time romo talked with a couple of patriots, same goes for the colts. raider jsut emphasizes more on what i said previously, its up to the other team to stop the patriots because thats what they are paid to do and the patriots are just out there to play football.

i know this is off topic but when that one redskin player was yelling at bill after the game for having no respect what respect did he show for his team and his own self? same for that chargers playoff game last season

JPL
11-01-2007, 10:44 AM
This brings the question that if a team goes 40 points up why should they then lower their standards.


I'm not saying a team should lower their standards and stop playing but this is a great time to get you backups more game experience and rest your starters to protect them from injury.
Let's take a scenario that could happen.
So you the Pats and up by 40 points with 5 minutes left in the 4th and you have your starters in. They driving down the field to score a meaningless touchdown your Starting QB gets drilled and takes out your starting RB's knee in the process both are gone for the season. I can garauntee you every fan who was defending the Pats running up the score would be saying how stupid it was and why were they in the game up 40 points. Now you lost you 2 key starters and are relying on backups who got very little palying time when they had plenty of oppurtunity to get into games that were by all accounts over.

So this isn't only about professionalism and sportsmanship it's about looking past your egos and doing what's good for the team and organization as a whole.

As far as entertainment value that was also mentioned I find nothing entertaining about a blowout in any sport and will even change the channel when my teams are blowing someone out.

SBETigg
11-01-2007, 11:19 AM
Don Banks wrote a great column today at SI.com discussing why it's not accepted in the NFL:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/don_banks/10/30/pats.running.up/index.html?bcnn=yes

Ian, thanks! That was a great article. It wasn't actually discussing "why it's not accepted in the NFL" as much as it was a nice pro-con examination of the Patriots season and their flaunting. Nicely done. I found his word choice interesing, in the first paragraph:

We can argue the pros and cons of their no-holds-barred approach. We can moralize or philosophize about the message it sends or the long-term wisdom of employing such a strategy. But there can be no debate about whether the New England Patriots are running up the score on their out-classed opponents this season.

Out-classed opponents. Hmmm. That would be the opposite of your opinion, of course. But I now have a better understanding of the running up the score debate and I ended feeling very "Go, Patriots!" And I hope it's a good game against the Colts.

RAIDER
11-01-2007, 01:32 PM
I'm not saying a team should lower their standards and stop playing but this is a great time to get you backups more game experience and rest your starters to protect them from injury.
Let's take a scenario that could happen.
So you the Pats and up by 40 points with 5 minutes left in the 4th and you have your starters in. They driving down the field to score a meaningless touchdown your Starting QB gets drilled and takes out your starting RB's knee in the process both are gone for the season. I can garauntee you every fan who was defending the Pats running up the score would be saying how stupid it was and why were they in the game up 40 points. Now you lost you 2 key starters and are relying on backups who got very little palying time when they had plenty of oppurtunity to get into games that were by all accounts over.

So this isn't only about professionalism and sportsmanship it's about looking past your egos and doing what's good for the team and organization as a whole.

As far as entertainment value that was also mentioned I find nothing entertaining about a blowout in any sport and will even change the channel when my teams are blowing someone out.

So basically put on your second team /backups on when your winning by lots ...... Dont you think that could be viewed as more of an insult to the other team? ..

I hear were your coming from on the injuries and its a fair point and if it backfires the manager can only be held responsible for his over indulgence .However i really believe in this case NE were sending out a message to the Colts

But again i have no problem with teams going for an out an out win as long as its under the rules

At the end of the day NE are playing for their fans and their entertaining their fans who basically pay a certain percentage to their teams wages so i am sure that when they were winning by a huge amount and in this manor i doubt very much they turned off .

Yes a blow out can be boring to watch i agree on that point. But if it was my team then no i wouldnt find it boring and lets be honest NE werent playing to the neutrals at that point they were playing for their fans.

What they did last week ups the anti in this weeks game with the colts in my view. The Colts will have to up their game and if they do win then the playoffs between these 2 teams will be explosive if they end up facing each other again

JPL
11-01-2007, 03:04 PM
So basically put on your second team /backups on when your winning by lots ...... Dont you think thats more of an insult to the other team? ..

That is not an insult to the other team at all because your best players are still that ones that beat the team.

battlefield2freak
11-01-2007, 04:03 PM
actually for the past 2 weeks including week 8 they have put in matt cassel and this week their new rookie QB they are both 2nd and 3rd string QB's.

in relation to sending a message to the colts i dont think so really. they are just playing like they have been for the past 4-5 weeks

Ian
11-01-2007, 05:54 PM
Out-classed opponents. Hmmm. That would be the opposite of your opinion, of course.I'm sorry ... I'm very confused. How is that the opposite of my opinion?? :confused:

SBETigg
11-01-2007, 06:02 PM
I'm sorry ... I'm very confused. How is that the opposite of my opinion?? :confused:

That the Patriots are out-classing their opponents? You said you feel they are lacking class. Outclassing their opponents would mean the Patriots have more class, the opposite of your reaction. :) No worries. I believe he meant outplaying them, not necessarily a statement on class. I was enjoying the word choice, just having fun. ;)

PirateLover
11-01-2007, 06:07 PM
*It seems as though Sherri herself responded as I was formulating my own thoughts with a similar answer :)



Out-classed opponents. Hmmm. That would be the opposite of your opinion, of course.


I'm sorry ... I'm very confused. How is that the opposite of my opinion?? :confused:

Let me try to answer (although this is sometimes the worst thing you can do on a message board!)
Sherri is referring to you calling the The Patriots organization/Belichick classless. However when I read that article, I took out-classed to mean that the other teams aren't in the Patriots class- Pats are in a league of their own so to speak. I don't think he meant that the Patriots are a classier organization than the other teams they played, because it doesn't fit with the rest of the article. The uses of the word aren't necessarily interchangeable.

Outclassed: decisively surpassed by something else so as to appear to be of a lower class

Classy: of high class, rank, or grade; stylish; admirably smart; elegant.

Ian
11-01-2007, 07:24 PM
That the Patriots are out-classing their opponents? You said you feel they are lacking class. Outclassing their opponents would mean the Patriots have more class, the opposite of your reaction. :) No worries. I believe he meant outplaying them, not necessarily a statement on class. I was enjoying the word choice, just having fun. ;)Ahh ... gotcha ...

Melanie
11-19-2007, 01:21 AM
I am in no way, shape or form an Eagles fan, but I will be pulling for them with all my might next week.

No one will ever convince me that the Patriots aren't running up the score this season. It's disgusting.

WDWfanatic742
11-19-2007, 03:55 AM
Bills have the ball on their side of the field with 10 seconds left and after kneeing the ball I believe the Patriots take a time out when they are up by 28 or something like that. What would have been funny if the Bills would have completed the Hail Mary on the next play.

I'm still going to pull for the 0-14 Dolphins to pull the ultimate upset and beat the 14-0 Pats in Week 16 :D

SBETigg
11-19-2007, 06:25 AM
Okay, enough. I really hated watching yesterday's game. It just felt wrong. I really hate to say you all were right, but I'm beginning to agree that the Patriots need to tone it down a bit. You know it pains me to admit it.

Ian
11-19-2007, 08:15 AM
No one will ever convince me that the Patriots aren't running up the score this season. It's disgusting.Yep. Last night's game might have been the worst example of it, too.

If the Pats do win the Super Bowl, they're going to be met with a deafening silence.

They may win every game, but at the end of the season they'll still be a classless bunch of losers.

JPL
11-19-2007, 08:39 AM
I turned the game off in disgust so much for TV ratings with this flex game :rolleyes:

I donm't think asnybody on the planet enjoyed watching that game and to think they bump the Jets/Steelers game in favor of that mess :shake:

RedheadWriter
11-19-2007, 08:55 AM
I missed the game (family function) but I am guessing from the posts this morning, that there was no real reason to watch the Pats play. I feel bad that there is such a level of disgust for them as this is really the first year I have developed much of an interest in football in general and the Patriots in particular. And there I was 3 weeks ago proudly wearing my Patriots sweatshirt at Disney. :blush:
Rachel

Donald A
11-19-2007, 09:01 AM
I turned the game off in disgust so much for TV ratings with this flex game :rolleyes:

I don't think asnybody on the planet enjoyed watching that game and to think they bump the Jets/Steelers game in favor of that mess :shake:

I agree that Steelers / Jets game was a heck of a game. My wife (Steelers fan) was disappointed but being a Browns fan myself our exciting win yesterday brought the Browns within one game of first place.

The Patriots continue to prove what they are. I wonder what they will say if Brady gets hurt "accidentally" when they try to run up the score.


They may win every game, but at the end of the season they'll still be a classless bunch of losers.

Sorry, but my thoughts exactly. What are we teaching our children when we show them winning is everything. Lack of class and disrespect are the hallmark of Patriots football. Just look at Mike Vrabel's disrespect in calling Don Shula an "old, washed up coach" when Don Shula "dares" question the tarnishing of the Patriots possible undefeated season.

Ian
11-19-2007, 09:38 AM
Just look at Mike Vrabel's disrespect in calling Don Shula an "old, washed up coach" when Don Shula "dares" question the tarnishing of the Patriots possible undefeated season.As far as I'm concerned Mike Vrabel is old and washed up ... but that's another story.

And in my mind, there's no "question" about it ... this season is tarnished. All these records or whatever they're going to come out of this season with? To me they're no more valid than any of Barry Bonds' records. I won't pay the slightest bit of attention to them when people talk about them in the future. To me, it will be like they never even happened.

Why? Because they shouldn't be happening!!! Example ... the Pats were up by THIRTY-FOUR POINTS heading into the fourth quarter of last night's game. Yet, there was Brady ... in there slinging the ball around. He had no business being in there with the score that lopsided and no business throwing the ball. Ergo, those stats should never have been recorded, ergo I will be ignoring them.

And yeah, that whole Shula thing, that was obviously tone from the top. Rudeness, classlessness, and arrogant behavior is the rule of thumb for the Hooded Grey Sweatshirted One.

Jeri Lynn
11-19-2007, 10:02 AM
I'll almost afraid to wear my Patriots shirt next week when I am in WDW on Sunday...

RedheadWriter
11-19-2007, 10:21 AM
Nah Jeri Lyn, wear it. I will when I am back there in January.
Rachel

PirateLover
11-19-2007, 11:05 AM
I'll almost afraid to wear my Patriots shirt next week when I am in WDW on Sunday...

Wear your colors proudly. Remember, just because someone has a problem with the Pats this season doesn't mean they have a problem with fans. The only time I rib a stranger for wearing something is if my team is playing them (and it's usually good-natured)

RedSoxFan
11-19-2007, 11:08 AM
Yes, wear your Pats clothing proudly. My kids wore the Pats jerseys to school this morning and I have my Pats hoodie on. Proud to be a Pats and a Red Sox Fan!!

Donald A
11-19-2007, 12:07 PM
Yes, wear your Pats clothing proudly. My kids wore the Pats jerseys to school this morning and I have my Pats hoodie on. Proud to be a Pats and a Red Sox Fan!!

The issue is not about the Pats fans it is about the Pats organization. I heard a story about the Boston fans claping for the Cleveland Indians after beating them this past ALCS because of the effort and excitement the Indians demonstrated, I am not sure this happened. However, I would like to think that it was the fans showing the class that they have.

I have always said that I do feel sorry for the fans of the Pats that are hurt by the actions of the Pats organization. Even in this thread, people are talking about being ashamed to wear their Pats clothing. It is a natural feeling to like your local team, after all, as a fan you have no part in running it. You should wear your team's clothing with pride.

goofhook
11-19-2007, 03:14 PM
They are not running up the score, they just knew my fantasy team was being beat and that I owned Randy Moss, and needed some fantasy points.

battlefield2freak
11-19-2007, 05:48 PM
I turned the game off in disgust so much for TV ratings with this flex game :rolleyes:

I donm't think asnybody on the planet enjoyed watching that game and to think they bump the Jets/Steelers game in favor of that mess :shake:

well i enjoyed watching the game last night. they are just playing the sport they love - football and im not ashamed of being a patriot fan because its not there fault they get the ball so many times i mean its turnover or 3 and out when pats defense is on the field. i mean these people are getting paid to stop the other team and win it all. i mean i dont see how this is running the score up when thats nothing compared to college level and alot of this is due to the fact at college nad pro level they pit a really good team agaisnt a struggling team all the time. i wear my colors proudly every sunday and monday even if they lose

SBETigg
11-19-2007, 05:52 PM
I don't always agree with the leadership and Brady, though talented, has never been a personal favorite of mine. But I still love and support my team. I'll always adore Tedy Bruschi. It just takes away some of the fun to see them dominating so much. The Colts game was fantastic because it was close and had me on edge.

JPL
11-19-2007, 05:53 PM
i mean i dont see how this is running the score up when thats nothing compared to college level and alot of this is due to the fact at college nad pro level they pit a really good team agaisnt a struggling team all the time.

You can't compare College and Pro as it has been discussed earlier in this thread since Point differential make up a part of the BCS ranking and bowl games mean big money for colleges to fund their programs.

Having Brady in the Game throwing passes in the fourth during a blowout is running up the score any way you slice it. He should have been resting on the bench and they should have had second and third string players in the game gaining valuable experience.

From an entertainment stand point last nights game had Zero entertainment value. I know many loyal watchers of Sunday football who are football fans not just fans of a particular team turned off the game.

battlefield2freak
11-19-2007, 06:04 PM
You can't compare College and Pro as it has been discussed earlier in this thread since Point differential make up a part of the BCS ranking and bowl games mean big money for colleges to fund their programs.

Having Brady in the Game throwing passes in the fourth during a blowout is running up the score any way you slice it. He should have been resting on the bench and they should have had second and third string players in the game gaining valuable experience.

From an entertainment stand point last nights game had Zero entertainment value. I know many loyal watchers of Sunday football who are football fans not just fans of a particular team turned off the game.

ok well sorry i dont read the other 3 or 4 pages.

and brady, moss, and marroney was benched in the fourth so you cant really say thats the cause for running the score up by having them in during the fourth. and this is an excerpt from the NFL artcicle:

"Coach says he puts you out there to score when you touch it," Brady said. "He doesn't put you out there to punt."

and i who played football for 4 years for my high school (but declined scholarship) believe in that very statement and i love that kind of talk from a coach because thats how you win and i think any other coach or player would have to agree with me

after reading the article a little more i saw this: Belichick declined to go for a fourth-and-inches from the Buffalo 30 with 3:56 left, choosing to punt instead.

"I have no problem with that," Jauron said of the earlier fourth-down tries. "It's our job to stop it."

see that just backs up my statement that its the other teams job to stop the other team

i didnt turn my TV off just because the patriots were playing at thetop of there game i watched it because there was entertainment value in it for me.

Melanie
11-19-2007, 06:30 PM
Weren't the Patriots last two offensive touchdowns made on 4th down?

WDWfanatic742
11-19-2007, 06:38 PM
Alright, but still college and even high school are different then the NFL. In College you run up the score to try and get a better ranking and you are playing for bowl games and money to your school. NFL has no ranking system and is all about record's to make the playoff's. There is no playoff system in college and until they come up with one, teams have to run up the score and play all out all the time because they need to in order to make the Chamionship. There is no reason to beat a team by 40 points and still have your starters out on the field with 8 minutes left in a 40 point blow out. A win is a win in the NFL and it doesn't matter if you win by a point or 40 points. When you win by that much it disgraces the NFL, and makes a horrible and boring game to watch. I'd much rather watch a Baltimore - Browns type game or a Jets - Pittsburgh game then a blowout like that.

JPL
11-19-2007, 08:01 PM
. There is no reason to beat a team by 40 points and still have your starters out on the field with 8 minutes left in a 40 point blow out. A win is a win in the NFL and it doesn't matter if you win by a point or 40 points.

Exactly and if I was a Patriots Fan I would be screaming at my TV to take them out so there is no chance of injury. Also they should be resting them so they don't burn out after a long grinding a season.

How many times do you see a team up in a game with the ball in scoring position and they take a knee to run out the clock? When they could easily try and score a touchdown or atleast kick a field goal.

The Patriots are a classless organization and I don't hold fans responsible for that.

Epc0tphr34k
11-19-2007, 09:44 PM
I'm still going to pull for the 0-14 Dolphins to pull the ultimate upset and beat the 14-0 Pats in Week 16 :D

funny david i have been preaching the same thing. The fish have yet to fail in defending their crown. I am pretty sure the 85 superbowl champion bears were supposed to run all over miami too and yet they lost at home.

Scar
11-21-2007, 09:20 AM
Has anyone seen the point spread for the Patriots / Eagles game?

23 points... TWENTY-THREE POINTS!

Now even the bookies are taking “running up the score” into consideration when making the line. :shake:

If that isn’t proof enough, I don’t know what is.

JPL
11-21-2007, 10:27 AM
There was also an article about why Vegas Hates the Patriots :shake:

Scar
11-21-2007, 11:00 AM
There was also an article about why Vegas Hates the Patriots :shake:Could you please post it? I would like to read it.

JPL
11-21-2007, 11:22 AM
Funny they changed the title of it Yesterday it was titled why Vegas Hates the Patriots or something similar to that.


Pat's Article (http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/7467484)

Scar
11-21-2007, 11:53 AM
So disregard coaches and players who say it's not personal. It's very personal, and none more so than the Patriots' date with the Jets Dec. 16 in Foxborough. The line is already 22, a number owing much to the fact that the Spygate whistle-blower was Jets coach Eric Mangini, a former Belichick protege.

"We definitely factor that in," said Van Patten, "Belichick wants to kill these guys. He'll put up 100 if he can."This is funny. I was listening to an interview with Belichick by a New York talk radio host, and huge Jets fan. Three times he begged him to “keep the score under 80.” Belichick was just silent and never answered.

On a side note, I thought he was very nice and answered all the other questions. Definitely not the jerk everyone makes him out to be.

discjoker
11-21-2007, 01:43 PM
It is funny to read all of the venom toward the Patriots. They are the hated team right now. Jealousy causes hatred. They are an unstoppable force. If someone was able to stop them they would not have such wide margins of victory. It's just that they are that darn good. Trust me if the team of your choice were scoring as many points as the Pats there would be a major change in attitude.

There is nothing wrong with scoring lots of points. You are out on the field to play and score. Unfortunately as a society we have become very soft. Little leagues not keeping score for fear of hurting feelings, high school football coaches being punished because their team scored too many points, schools no longer publishing honor roll lists in the newspaper for fear of causing competition and hurt feelings, etc. It scares me to think of what our society will be like in 20 years. Very scary stuff.

Oh, and this is all from someone is a casual football watcher. Not a huge Pats fan either (even though I am from the Boston area). If it were any other team my feelings would remain the same.

Ian
11-21-2007, 03:52 PM
I have to laugh at what seems to be an ongoing debate over whether or not the Pats are, in fact, running up the score, and if they are whether or not it is acceptable to run up the score in the NFL.

There are definitive answers to both those questions ... yes and no. They've basically admitted they're trying to prove a point by running up the score and it's well-known, to anyone who's followed the NFL even remotely, that running up the score is a huge no-no.

The fact that the opposing coaches aren't ripping Belichek for it is merely an indicator that they have a whole heckuva lot more class than he does.

battlefield2freak
11-25-2007, 04:01 PM
There are definitive answers to both those questions ... yes and no. They've basically admitted they're trying to prove a point by running up the score and it's well-known, to anyone who's followed the NFL even remotely, that running up the score is a huge no-no.


if its a no no then where are the fines against them and the rules in the NFL rulebook about it then? also they never said they was trying to prove a point

goofhook
11-25-2007, 05:28 PM
I think they mean it is a unwritten no-no, like if someone finds a parking space in a crowded parking lot, and they are half way in, and you zoom around the corner and beat them to it at the last second, that is not too nice is it? Its just like the Patriots having a 40-point lead and then putting up more scores late in the 4th quarter.

SBETigg
11-25-2007, 06:02 PM
It's not something I like to watch, because it does take some of the fun out of the game-- but as other teams have said, it is up to them to stop it. I wonder if there has ever been a team who could dominate to this extent, whether or not it's a polite practice? Yes, other teams may have had the class not to run up the score, but could they have? To this extent? Week after week? At this point, I think it's interesting to see if they can be stopped and who will stop them. The Colts came so close.

The running up the score debate seems to be a moot point by now. Obviously, the Pats plan to do it as often as they can, right or wrong. It will be a matter of time now for other teams to start doing it, too. The Patriots may have changed the way the game is played, and I'm not saying I'm for that or it's a good thing. But the point now seems to be how far it will go and who will end it? I wouldn't mind the Dolphins getting a crack at it. Wouldn't that be a game to watch? Can the Eagles do it today?

goofhook
11-25-2007, 06:05 PM
Well, my Eagles could do it but that would only be if they have McNabb, who just happens to be injured. I think that Westbrook will have a huge day, he will make a lot of mismatches the whole game.

kakn7294
11-25-2007, 08:59 PM
It is funny to read all of the venom toward the Patriots. They are the hated team right now. Jealousy causes hatred.
It's not always a case of jealousy and it's not definately not for me. There are some teams you just hate and the Patriots are one of them for me - I always have since I started watching football. I also hate the Browns, Bengals, and Ravens - just a Steelers fan thing, no jealousy involved there either.

SBETigg
11-25-2007, 11:19 PM
Oh, look at your Eagles go, Goofhook! Looking good out there. Good game!

PirateLover
11-25-2007, 11:39 PM
so close.......so close.........:unsure:

kakn7294
11-25-2007, 11:43 PM
What a great game! Too bad Feely threw that pick at the end - the Eagles had them where they wanted them and were so close to tying or winning!

Epc0tphr34k
11-26-2007, 06:44 AM
The Eagles had them beat and Feeley threw to the clear out route, and a bad ball at that. if he had just just thrown the ball to LJ Smith who was coming across the field wide open i could have actually slept last night.

Ian
11-26-2007, 11:45 AM
The Eagles had them beat and Feeley threw to the clear out route, and a bad ball at that. if he had just just thrown the ball to LJ Smith who was coming across the field wide open i could have actually slept last night.Aside from Feeley's bad decision on that throw, the entire play call was ridiculous.

They're only down by 3 and they're already in field goal range. They ran on first down and got 6 yards. Why in the world do you go deep on that play??? What's the upside?? Even if you score you're only up by 4 and you've just given the ball back to the most potent offense in NFL history with more than enough time to beat you.

It's so painfully obvious to anyone who knows ANYTHING about football that the play there is run on 2nd down and see what you get. If you don't convert, then you throw and preferably an in route that just over the 1st down marker. Those ins were there all night.

I know I should just feel good that it was such a close game, but I don't. I'm really frustrated that they blew a game that was, if nothing else, winnable.

Epc0tphr34k
11-26-2007, 11:55 AM
They're only down by 3 and they're already in field goal range. They ran on first down and got 6 yards. Why in the world do you go deep on that play??? What's the upside?? Even if you score you're only up by 4 and you've just given the ball back to the most potent offense in NFL history with more than enough time to beat you.



take a look at the replay
the play that was called was a drag route to lj smith he was wide open about 4 yds out. feeley was trying to be a hero. he owes an appology to everyone on the eagles. had he run the play as it was designed rather than throwing the deep ball they would have gotten the first
you can see the look on andy's face pretty much stating that he threw to the wrong receiver. and the worst part is the poll on the eagles site the fans still think he should startnot only did he make that bad decision the pick at the begining of the game was the difference in the score

on and to tie this all into the patriots lack of class. did you see brady's post game contents about how it was only close because the patriots didn't play well and they all could have played better

Ian
11-26-2007, 01:38 PM
I'll agree with your last statement ... yes, all the Pats players basically gave zero credit to the way the Eagles played and basically blamed the close game on them not playing well. Although I will credit Belichek because he said some nice things about the Eagles.

I'll disagree with you on your assessment of the final play and on Feeley as a starter. Sal Palantonio was on the radio this morning and he said definitively that that was a called play by Reid ... that you could see AJ in the huddle talking to Curtis and that it was obvious that he was the target from the beginning.

And personally, I don't care that Feeley lost the game for the Eagles (which he did, I admit). This team plays 10 times better for any QB who's last name is not McNabb. It's time for Donovan to go. For whatever reason, his team won't play hard for him anymore.

I'm not saying Feeley is any kind of long term solution at QB, but I am saying that I think we have a much better chance to make the playoffs this year with Feeley under center than with McNabb.

PirateLover
11-26-2007, 03:03 PM
It's not entirely true that the Pats gave the Eagles no credit. Brady's specific quote was "I wish we had played a little better, but I give those guys [The Eagles] a lot of credit." Belichick admitted that he was caught off guard by them. I think they were humbled...just a bit;)

I am really bummed that they lost because at the end, they really had the opportunity to win. But it was an exciting game. My dad and I haven't screamed like that during a game... probably since the Eagles faced the Pats in the Super Bowl! Every incomplete pass to Moss, every Sack on Brady... and of course every TD and every mistake by the Eagles had us jumping out of our seats. It stinks because my dad said in the beginning "The one thing I don't want is for them to lose by 3 points" but what can you do. I'm glad that they played so hard when everyone expected them to get rolled over. I mean a 24 point spread? How insulting is that. My dad and myself were the only people I know who honestly thought the Eagles had a shot at winning. I was the only one in the Intercot Football Fun who picked them to win. I completely agree with Ian that when McNabb is not the QB this team plays exponentially better. It's a bummer because I think the guy has great talent, but he's just not cutting it here. He never turned into a true West Coast QB.

I am happy that the Eagles made the Pats look human, and beatable. I think that the one thing they proved is that you CAN beat the Pats, as long as you don't make mistakes. You have to play them hard, pressure Brady, and play a nearly perfect game. The Pats made some mistakes last night but the Eagles made more, especially towards the end, and that is what ultimately lost us the game.

SBETigg
11-26-2007, 03:31 PM
It's not entirely true that the Pats gave the Eagles no credit. Brady's specific quote was "I wish we had played a little better, but I give those guys [The Eagles] a lot of credit." Belichick admitted that he was caught off guard by them. I think they were humbled...just a bit;)

Thanks for the quote! It's true that the Eagles played a great game but also true that the Pats played badly for them, a lot of sloppy moves, and I don't think Brady's comment was out of line, classless, or one bit insulting. In fact, he has been full of praise for all of the teams they've played every time I've seen his post-game interviews.

goofhook
11-26-2007, 03:33 PM
:offtopic:

Well, it just goes to show the Eagles are one of the elite NFL teams still. Its just a shame the record does not show it. If you ask me, the record should be 9-2 for the Eagles. The teams they should have beat are the Packers, because of horrible Special Teams, Redskins, McNabb could not make a single good pass in this game, and if he completed a late pass to Curtis near the endzone they would have won. They should also have beat, the Giants, the only problem was Westbrook was not there, so Play Action and all the screens did not show up in the game, and then they just blew the Patriots game.

goofhook
11-26-2007, 03:49 PM
The Bills should be still in the race in the AFC East, because what the records don't show is that the Eagles and Colts both lost more than the Patriots won the games. Also, is it just me, or does A.J. Felley seem to be a diamond in the rough?

TinksPixieDust
11-27-2007, 02:12 PM
Go Pats! :)

Juniorunc2001
11-28-2007, 03:37 PM
Pats are beatable, and will get beat. To bad it will be in the AFC Championships by the defending World Champs.

The Eagles, and Colts had them beat and couldn't finish. The Pats can't run the ball, and can't defend the run. They will get beat in January.

RedheadWriter
11-28-2007, 04:10 PM
Win or lose, I'm still a Patriots fan :thumbsup: I just hate to think that ANY team can get so cocky as to think they are undefeatable. Pride goeth before a fall!

Donald A
12-01-2007, 09:44 AM
Watching the Steelers - Miami game last week got me thinking about a scenerio. Say the Pats are undefeated and say the Dolphins are winless when these teams play later this month. I have a feeling running up the score by the Pats would be a bad decision. You might see a Pats star get hurt with some Miami unsportsman-like conduct if the Pats star remains in too long. Hopefully the Pats classless coach realizes this. Miami might go down being remembered as the worst team ever but may also go down as being remembered as something else if the Pats don't show some humility and class.

Some might not think Miami (or any other team) would take a cheap shot, I disagree. When the other team's pride is hurt and you show no respect to another team what keeps a team from making a cheap shot against you?

goofhook
12-02-2007, 08:21 AM
Or the Dolphins could just use a pass rush on the Patriots, it worked wonders when the Eagles and Colts did it. And if the pride is hurt, they could use that to just knock down the O-line and hit Brady as hard as they want to, so it won't be a cheap shot.

SBETigg
12-02-2007, 03:53 PM
As much as so many people hate the Pats and want to call them classless, I would hope that a player or team that deliberately takes a cheap shot intended to hurt someone would be met with double the scorn. That's really low, and no one deserves to be hurt.

TinksPixieDust
12-02-2007, 06:45 PM
maybe we should just start playing pop warner rules. you know so nobodys feelings get hurt. these people are paid to play football and if my team can score id like to see them in the end zone every time. the defense gets paid to stop the offense. running up the score is like pop warner/high school talk. this is the nfl people.

Ian
12-02-2007, 06:54 PM
maybe we should just start playing pop warner rules. you know so nobodys feelings get hurt. these people are paid to play football and if my team can score id like to see them in the end zone every time. the defense gets paid to stop the offense. running up the score is like pop warner/high school talk. this is the nfl people.That would be correct. And for ... oh, I don't know ... maybe about the last one hundred years or so it's been frowned on in the NFL, as well.

Do you really think people would be talking about it at all if it wasn't a big deal??

brownie
12-02-2007, 07:14 PM
If you don't want the score run up, call the game and be done with it. I think that would be a poor decision. Eventually, other teams will get better, and the Patriots will be beat; they won't dominate forever. The fact that they're good and scoring lots of points sets the bar higher for the rest of the league. If we didn't have a few very good teams, we end up with a league of mediocre teams, and that wouldn't be much fun.

TinksPixieDust
12-03-2007, 01:22 PM
its only a big deal because its the patriots and they are undefeated right now. even if someone doesnt regularly watch football they hate the patriots because apparently its the cool thing to do. nobody was making a huge deal about the colts running up the score in 2004. its was okay because it was manning/dungy andthey had lost a few games. i agree with brownie...they arent going to be this dominate forever. you should be enjoying history instead of wondering if maybe brady should be pulled in the 2nd qtr so the defense doesnt feel horrible about themselves.

RedheadWriter
12-03-2007, 01:43 PM
Here's my two cents. Maybe it's too black and white with no gray area:
These players get paid BIG bucks to do one of two things:
1. Offense is paid to SCORE as much as they can
2. Defense is paid to keep the other team from scoring.
So what if they run up the score? A win is a win. Why not point fingers at the defense of the other team who is being paid to keep the Pats from scoring?
I don't take football as seriously as other people, I admit. I am a Pats fan (as a good New Englander), but to see people get all bent about running up the score is a mystery to me. Is it OK to complain about Baseball teams hitting homers and "running up the score" or is this solely a football thing?

Juniorunc2001
12-03-2007, 01:56 PM
The Colts did not run up the score in 2004. When the game was decided, Peyton was handing off (if he was still in the game). If anyone thinks Dungy is that classless, they are crazy

Everyone would be on board w/ the Pats if they didn't get caught cheating, and if their players were classy.

Jeff
12-03-2007, 01:56 PM
running up the score is like pop warner/high school talk. this is the nfl people.

I coach HS football and am actually the D coordinator. I do not get upset at all when someone runs up the score on us. It hasn't happened in many years but has a few times in the past. It's my guys job to stop the O. If we can't, have at us. The O must keep in mind however, if they keep their starters in to get "junk yardage / stats" they are also putting them at risk of getting hurt in a game that is out of reach.

That's my "issue" with the Pats - why keep your multi million dollar players in a game that is out of reach? That I do not get and I like the Patriots. I like Brady and respect the coaching staff.