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Speedy1998
10-16-2007, 08:11 PM
Has anyone seen that there is a group trying to force Disney and Sea World to allow people with disabilities to bring their personnel Segways into the parks.

I see three major problems with this 1.Disney will have to allow all Segways in because they will not be able to say someone is not disabled without being accused of discrimination. 2. Just the fact that most people I have seen riding them are wearing helmets tell me they are at least as dangerous as riding a bike through the parks (I seem to remeber the President falling off one and getting hurt) and 3. The private ones can go 12.5 mph. I can just see someone on a Segway who is late for an ADR or a Show running over someone who is not watching for fast motorized transportation in Walt Disney World.

I agree with the Disney spoke person. They said "Disney is not excluding anyone they are just excluding a mode of transportation."

There are much safe transportation for people with diabilities (both for the rider and pedestrians) that are already allowed in the parks.

tinksmom02
10-16-2007, 08:29 PM
Has anyone seen that there is a group trying to force Disney and Sea World to allow people with disabilities to bring their personnel Segways into the parks.

I see three major problems with this 1.Disney will have to allow all Segways in because they will not be able to say someone is not disabled without being accused of discrimination. 2. Just the fact that most people I have seen riding them are wearing helmets tell me they are at least as dangerous as riding a bike through the parks (I seem to remeber the President falling off one and getting hurt) and 3. The private ones can go 12.5 mph. I can just see someone on a Segway who is late for an ADR or a Show running over someone who is not watching for fast motorized transportation in Walt Disney World.

I agree with the Disney spoke person. They said "Disney is not excluding anyone they are just excluding a mode of transportation."

There are much safe transportation for people with diabilities (both for the rider and pedestrians) that are already allowed in the parks.

I have heard something about this, and I agree with you for all the reasons you mentioned.

Pirate Granny
10-16-2007, 08:53 PM
I agree also...It's a prime example of accidents waiting to happen...once you let one in, then everybody can rent one and it's already bad enough watching little kids drive those electric vehicles sitting on the laps of adults...
:pirate:

DisneyTwirler13!
10-16-2007, 08:59 PM
that is so true!
and then what happens to the people who need to us strollers and carry around big bags with souveiners and stuff like that?
and parking the things when people have to get on rides, and identifying which one is yours... a nightmare waiting to happen!

Seasonscraps
10-16-2007, 09:44 PM
That would be a disaster waiting to happen.

adoptionislove
10-16-2007, 10:02 PM
I completely agree!!

CaptainSad
10-17-2007, 09:22 AM
I believe SEGWAY's are not considered transportation for people with disabilities. It was never made for that. I believe Disney has the right to disallow these in the parks for safety alone. They have the Wheel Chairs and the motorized one's also. It's bad enough getting hit with one of those. It has happened to me and the woman was very rude. She said I should watch where I was going. Funny thing was she hit me from behind and I was bleeding from the back of my leg. They rent those as a service. They don't even have to do that if they don't want. You can always bring your own.

TheMartellFamily
10-17-2007, 09:24 AM
While there are many different modes to use I feel with the speed it could be quite dangerous in a crowded area. I remember seeing CM booking though the parking lots on them going at top notch speed and saying wow I did not know they go that fast. I also remember saying that if they would wipe out boy that would hurt. I could see it being used in a negative way like a plow rather than a mode of transportation as it was intended for. I feel that it could get really bad if not used correctly at park closing time or after a show such as Fantasmic or Illuminations.

brownie
10-17-2007, 10:11 AM
Mobility devices are available from Disney and other businesses in the Orlando area, so people have options. I can understand wanting to use your own, but I can also see the Segway being a problem if it's opened up to people as an option. It's one thing to be used by employees who are hopefully trained and there is some control over, another when you have no idea the person's experience using the Segway.

mcjaco
10-17-2007, 10:19 AM
Obviously, there's many types of disabilities, but I'm confused. If you have trouble getting around, how is STANDING all day on a Segway any easier than walking?

This whole thing sounds like some of America's finest trying to just get their way.

Here we go again...
10-17-2007, 11:03 AM
Obviously, there's many types of disabilities, but I'm confused. If you have trouble getting around, how is STANDING all day on a Segway any easier than walking?

This whole thing sounds like some of America's finest trying to just get their way.

I agree.
Segways are not as easy to ride as it looks either... You have to lean in the direction you want to go. I would think this would be much harder on a person with a disabitity. I can't stand in line for an hour much less stand on a Segway all day.

Tez
10-17-2007, 03:40 PM
This is a big can of worms!

FYI:
Segways are being marketed as a mode of transportaion for the disabled population granted not all disabled people are physically able to ride one. For instance a person might not have the lung capcity / endurance to walk from point A to point B but with a Segway they can get from point A to point B with no problem or maybe a person with a prostetic that can stand but can not walk long distances. The use of a Sageway to some people gives them more dignity, mobility and even seeing things better because of the height than a wheelchair or scooter.

I took the Segway tour last year and they do take some practice although most ambulatory people could pick it up and ride it in no time at all. Having said this, the Segways at the parks do not go as fast as ones that are purchased privately so as stated this would be an issue along with transporting them on the buses but I guess not any different than someone bringing their own scooter from home!

This is something that Disney will have to look into and somehow "Police" or change the policy to allow or not allow them as another mode of transportation for the disabled.

Marilyn Michetti
10-17-2007, 05:02 PM
That would be as bad as letting high school students have them in hallways. I can see them on college campuses for getting around, but NO WAY around massive crowds of kids.

NOPE, I don't think it's going to happen. (Hope not, anyway).

MNNHFLTX
10-17-2007, 06:40 PM
I have been thinking on this piece of news since I heard about it and find it perplexing. While a Segway may be suitable to a certain portion of the disabled population, that portion certainly must be very small. And they could certainly be just as well served by the current modes of transportation available to them at the parks.

I am all for increasing accessibility at Disney World, but the question of allowing Segways seems like opening an unnecessary can of worms.

If it is allowed, I would hope it would be for those who are already experienced and in possession of their own Segway, and not to the general population, where it might be abused.

disneydeb
10-17-2007, 07:03 PM
Jym (Natazu)told me at the meet about a man in Knoxville, who has had a hip fusion surgery. I hope I'm reporting that correctly. Anyway this man has been involved in the court system in Knoxville to be allowed to use his segway in downtown Knoxville. He can not sit in an EVC for his mode of transportation.
I can see it being necessary for some Disney visitors, but please limit it to those with Physician's approval.

wedway76
10-17-2007, 08:14 PM
Disney may be able to keep them out by saying that it offers ECVs for people with handicaps, and in the rare case that the person needs to stand, Disney may have to supply a few Segway type vehicles with speed governors. I don’t think they should let any vehicle in that has the capability to exceed walking speed.

TheDuckRocks
10-18-2007, 08:12 AM
I have been thinking on this piece of news since I heard about it and find it perplexing. While a Segway may be suitable to a certain portion of the disabled population, that portion certainly must be very small. And they could certainly be just as well served by the current modes of transportation available to them at the parks.

I am all for increasing accessibility at Disney World, but the question of allowing Segways seems like opening an unnecessary can of worms.

Thank you Beth for being able to sum up exactly what I have been thinking. As a person who has to use an ECV to be able to go anywhere that requires long walking and prolonged periods of standing I am grateful for Disney's understanding and accommodating people with disablities. But I also think that the need to only be able to use a Segway would be very, very rare and should be granted by Disney to only those few. To open the use of a Segway to anyone who just happens to have and use one because they're fun (ie; David Hyde Priece, Keven Spacey and Ellen) would in my opinion be a merry mess.

CandleontheWater
10-18-2007, 06:35 PM
Holy Cow, I hope they don't allow those things in the parks! Those EVCs are bad enough, the last thing I want is a bunch of people zipping around, running over stray children. The unfortunate thing is that they cannot just allow a select few to ride these contraptions. If they allow one person they have to allow all, per the Americans with Disabilities Act.

Marilyn Michetti
10-18-2007, 09:12 PM
DH did the Segway tour one year. I wasn't allowed to because I have a disability (M.S.) I can't imagine using a mobility insufficiency as a reason to get on a Segway!:(

sagessa
10-19-2007, 07:21 PM
Jym (Natazu)told me at the meet about a man in Knoxville, who has had a hip fusion surgery. I hope I'm reporting that correctly. Anyway this man has been involved in the court system in Knoxville to be allowed to use his segway in downtown Knoxville. He can not sit in an EVC for his mode of transportation.
I can see it being necessary for some Disney visitors, but please limit it to those with Physician's approval.

This is exactly right. He is unable to sit for extended periods of time due to his hip, and the Segway has been a godsend for him. It allows him to go places with his wife that he previously wouldn't because of his disability and to keep up with us when we go somewhere as a group.

As far as limiting it to those with a physician's approval, the ADA does not allow that. Disney is not allowed to question the validity of someone's disability.

Rachel R.

Natazu
10-20-2007, 02:45 AM
Can of worms opened...

I firmly believe the device should be allowed access for the disabled. According to the ADA, any device other than a wheelchair, when used by a person with a disability as a mobility device, is part of the broad class called "mobility aids". In this way, a Segway occupies a legal position equal to canes, walkers, and the like. Some disabled persons have a better quality of life through the use of a Segway. No company has a right to take that away.

What about getting run over by them?
That's a good question. Under the ADA, if a person is operating a device for the disabled in an unsafe manner on your property , they can be told to leave. You can't run over someone with an ECV and then hide behind the ADA. Your service dog isn't allowed to go around threatening people and you can't hit people with your cane. AND, if someone is operating their Segway dangerously, they can be ejected from the park disabled or not!

Aren't ECVs bad enough?
You can stop a Segway (even from 12mph) in less space than an ECV.
You are more visible to others and visible from further away on a Segway than a WC or ECV
You can turn more easily on a Segway than an ECV.
The people in ECVs who run others down should be ejected.

Why can't the parks just offer an alternative to Segway users?
Until you've tried to get an ECV from Disney anytime after 10am, you can't understand how few there are. Plus, after spending $6000 on a Segway, why should you be forced to spend $30 a day on an ECV?

If you're disabled how can you stand on a Segway all day?
First of all, that isn't for anyone to decide but the disabled person. Second, Segways can be easily modified to have a seat. I know a man with no legs who uses a Segway every day.

Why haven't they been sued already?
The way Disney has avoided an ADA lawsuit regarding Segway use thus far is twofold.
One: The Segway is not marketed as a device for the disabled. The technology for the Segway is the same as the IBOT. According to Neal Kamen's contract with Johnson & Johnson, he could not market a device for the disabled using the same technology.
Two: There is no money in it. Until someone pays out of pocket for the legal services to sue Disney over Segways for the disabled, it won't happen. You can't sue for big bucks under the ADA. You can only make them change their policy.

ElenitaB
10-20-2007, 11:07 AM
First of all, thanks to all for maintaining a thoughtful, considerate tone to this thread! :thumbsup:

Second, thank you, Jym, for clarifying some of the main issues! :thumbsup:

I'm not a huge fan of "policing" at WDW but as an ECV rider, I do find certain things do need to be addressed by the CMs. An ECV is NOT another ride vehicle, therefore, children should not be on them. Some people (like me) do not use ECVs on a regular basis and some training is needed. And third, we all need to be more considerate of one another. Stepping off my :soapbox:

mcjaco
10-20-2007, 04:35 PM
Can of worms opened...

According to the ADA, any device other than a wheelchair, when used by a person with a disability as a mobility device, is part of the broad class called "mobility aids". In this way, a Segway occupies a legal position equal to canes, walkers, and the like.

Why haven't they been sued already?
The way Disney has avoided an ADA lawsuit regarding Segway use thus far is twofold.
One: The Segway is not marketed as a device for the disabled.


If the Segway isn't marketed as a device for the disabled, then it really can't fall under the "mobility aids" category. I'd think that could be an extremely strong defense in any case.

Second, canes and walkers help people walk, and stand. With a Segway, you still have to stand on it all day. I don't see how it could be a mobility aid.

I'm not saying that people with disabilities should not be allowed into the parks without aids, but I think demanding use of a Segway is pushing their luck. Disney is still a private business venture, and they can turn people away if need be, especially if these people could be harmful to the thousands of others in the parks. All you need is one "Segway runs over toddler" story, and this could be one huge mess.

Natazu
10-20-2007, 05:11 PM
If the Segway isn't marketed as a device for the disabled, then it really can't fall under the "mobility aids" category. I'd think that could be an extremely strong defense in any case. The Segway has already been added as a mobility aid according to the Federal Department of Transportation. It's only a matter of time before the DOJ does the same.


Second, canes and walkers help people walk, and stand. With a Segway, you still have to stand on it all day. I don't see how it could be a mobility aid. There are many disabled people that can stand all day long.



I'm not saying that people with disabilities should not be allowed into the parks without aids, but I think demanding use of a Segway is pushing their luck. Disney is still a private business venture, and they can turn people away if need be, especially if these people could be harmful to the thousands of others in the parks. The Americans with Disabilities Act specifically prevents private businesses from turning people away based on their need for a disabled device.


All you need is one "Segway runs over toddler" story, and this could be one huge mess.How would that differ from a "ECV runs over toddler" story?

TheRustyScupper
10-20-2007, 06:39 PM
I can see it all now

. . . Andy Grandpa Granatelli
. . . Little Old Lady from Pasedena
. . . Main Street Manny
. . . Castle Katie

And, they'll all be aiming at YOU !

PirateLover
10-20-2007, 11:45 PM
This is a tough one. I understand that there are disabled people who, while they cannot walk long distances, cannot sit for long periods either. What a conundrum. But not all of those people can afford a Segway. I have a neighbor that uses a regular old motorized scooter due to disability. Would he be allowed to use that at WDW? I would guess no. And how do you prove that really are disabled? Where do you draw the line? I really don't know what the answer to this is, but if WDW decided to allow Segways for those who truly need them I wouldn't be too upset.

Natazu
10-21-2007, 12:11 AM
This is a tough one. I understand that there are disabled people who, while they cannot walk long distances, cannot sit for long periods either. What a conundrum. But not all of those people can afford a Segway. I have a neighbor that uses a regular old motorized scooter due to disability. Would he be allowed to use that at WDW? I would guess no. And how do you prove that really are disabled? Where do you draw the line? I really don't know what the answer to this is, but if WDW decided to allow Segways for those who truly need them I wouldn't be too upset.
I can answer a couple of your questions. The old motorized scooter would be allowed. Disney policy prohibits two-wheeled motorized devices.
One does not need to prove that they are disabled.

PirateLover
10-21-2007, 01:04 AM
One does not need to prove that they are disabled.

This is what I thought. So other than honesty, what would prevent anyone from taking their segway? By the way does anyone know how many Segways have been sold? If I'm being honest I haven't ever seen 1 around Philly.

Natazu
10-21-2007, 01:44 AM
This is what I thought. So other than honesty, what would prevent anyone from taking their segway? And lying about being disabled? Nothing. I think that's what people are worried about. If someone wants to fake being handicapped to get their Segway into the park, so be it. What goes around comes around... even on two wheels.

Keep in mind. These things are about $5000 before accessories. I don't see an onslaught of Segways preparing to burst through the gates. Also, they are prohibited in Disney parks but allowed in the resorts, parking lots, DTD, etc. I have seen only two thus far.

Polynesian Dweller
10-21-2007, 01:23 PM
For me, the issue is about the difficulty for people to hear a Segway approach them and take evasive action. Even with the trained cast members, I was startled several times last week by a Segway suddenly passing me. They are almost impossbile to hear. I could also see that almost everyone in the same walkway was equally oblivious to their presence and equally startled. I have never had as much problem with the ECV's. I think that auditory invisibility makes them less safe for everyone else, especially in a crowded park.

If Segways were equipped with something that made a noticeable sound, then there is no problem and they would be safe for all and the objective of increased mobility could be met without the contraversy.

Speedy1998
10-21-2007, 04:07 PM
There are two things that concern me.The first is the honesty issue. (All of us who have been to WDW can probably admit they have seen guest who were dishonest and trying to cheat the system.) This would open the can of worms for people bringing them not because they need them but because they are fun to ride. The second is the potential for harm to other guest. I have never seen a ECV fall over on top of another guest. Just type "Segway Crash" into youtube to see how dangreous these can be. Alot of them involve people trying to stop fast, manuever fast, or just plane hitting a curb. The other thing I found intresting is how many people are wearing helmets while riding them, never saw anyone riding a ECV with a helmet.

TheRustyScupper
10-22-2007, 11:38 AM
. . . You can't sue for big bucks under the ADA. You can only make them change their policy . . .

1) Not quite correct.
. . . you can sue for any injury due to access
. . . you can sue for non-access
2) Each occurance is worth about $4,000.
3) So,
. . . assume 5-access issues daily
. . . assume 10-days at WDW
. . . $4,000 x 5 x 10 = $200,000

NOTE: There are lawyers making millions from Access Lawsuits. There are also handicap folks who wait to find access problems. There is always a con-job activitist or ambulence chaser lawyer. A simple Google brings up over 811,000 examples.

mcjaco
10-22-2007, 05:27 PM
^ Not to get too far off subject, but I once handled a premises claim, where a disabled person, alleged that the raised bump area now found at crosswalks, caused them to slip and fall. They claimed it was poorly constructed, and not within code.

It was actaully an ADA compliant plastic piece.

Natazu
10-22-2007, 05:58 PM
1) Not quite correct.
. . . you can sue for any injury due to access
. . . you can sue for non-access
2) Each occurance is worth about $4,000.
3) So,
. . . assume 5-access issues daily
. . . assume 10-days at WDW
. . . $4,000 x 5 x 10 = $200,000

NOTE: There are lawyers making millions from Access Lawsuits. There are also handicap folks who wait to find access problems. There is always a con-job activitist or ambulence chaser lawyer. A simple Google brings up over 811,000 examples.I was vague and should have been more clear. I forgot there are engineers out there. Allow me to restate:
Disney has made it clear that they aren't going to allow Segways into the park until someone sues and wins. If there's a lawyer out there willing to take on Disney legal over Segway access on contingency, I'll pay the filing fee.