Is Southwest Getting Silly with Dress Code

[thrillme]

Just recently a couple of ladies were asked to leave two seperate Southwest flights or cover up. I didn't see what the second was wearing but the first one was dressed pretty much as normal college girls dress in the summer. I wouldn't have given it a second look.

Of course I wonder if what she was wearing was "exactly" the way she was wearing it on the flight but that's another story. What she wore in the news really just didn't seem like a big deal it's just that she looked really good in it. If she were younger or not as pretty I wonder if anybody would have said anything.

The second one was given a blanket and told to wear the blanket for the duration of the flight which apparently she agreed to do. I never saw her outfit.

Personally I don't have to worry much. I need as much material as I can possibly put on to cover up everything these days.

Is this a real problem or is Southwest being silly. I LOVE Southwest and hate to see anything negative about them.

[Marker]

Of course I wonder if what she was wearing was "exactly" the way she was wearing it on the flight but that's another story.

Seems to me that is precisely the story, for all we know she may have been naked on the plane.

Why is it silly for a business to establish a standard level of dress for it's customers. They are a private enterprise and should be able to establish standards as they see fit. If a customer can't abide by their set standard, they simple choose another carrier. Nothing silly about that at all in my opinion.

[Ian]

Well ... I have mixed feelings on this ...

First off, what is not being reported in the media about the college girl is that Southwest was, in fact, responding to a complaint from another passenger about the way she was dressed. I can sort of see them trying to take some steps to address it, but I'm not sure they handled it as tactfully as they could have.

Overall, I am completely and totally fine with any corporation establishing any dress code they see fit. "No shoes, no shirt, no service" has been a mantra in the restaurant industry for decades.

The bottom line is, if the company is willing to take the hit to their profits (assuming there is one) and their image, then that's their choice. Their company, their jets, they make the rules. As long as they don't violate any laws in terms of discrimination (which this didn't) it's perfectly acceptable.

Now personally, I found nothing offensive about her outfit and thought the whole thing was a little silly. Also, if they're going to continue down this path they should definitely publish a clear, unambiguous dress code so people will know what is and is not acceptable before they arrive.

[SteveL]

If they would like to enforce some kind of dress code, then perhaps they should make the public well aware of it beforehand.

[thrillme]

I'm a little unsure what dress code she would have violated based on what "I" saw her wearing on the newscast. I really can't see the airlines saying the skirt must not be shorter than...

I know that the percentage of airlines have codes that prohibit. "Offensive" T-shirts that might have bad words, some politically or overly suggestive sayings or are "threatening" in some way.

[RBrooksC]

Well, to be honest, if people, especially younger people, would take consideration for what they are wearing, there would be no issues. If people like Lindsey Lohan, Britney Spears and Paris Hilton continue to be role models for young girls, there will be more things like this happening.

When my wife and I fly, we dress in a business casual style. I always wear long pants and a nice shirt. The clothes are comfortable but look nice.

To be honest, if that woman came into my office for an interview wearing that, I most likely would not consider her for the job. If one wants to dress sexy, do it at a club on a Saturday night.

[AvonleaCF]

The woman was on Ellen and wore the outfit she wore on the plane.

There was nothing wrong with it.

The shirt wasn't all that low and the skirt was a typical mini-skirt.

And as Ellen said, where is the line drawn? If another passenger didn't like someone else's purfume should they get off too? If I think the person next to me is too fat can they be removed?

Also the way it was handled was totally off-base. He addressed her in front of the whole plane. Not tactfully at all.

If she had been wearing an "I support hyjacking" t-shirt I could see the problem, but she was covered up. She wasn't even a wearing a tank top.

I think people are way too uptight.

[Clotho]

I may feel differently in a few weeks, but having just come back from WDW where I saw more young women dressing like street walkers than I have ever seen in one place...I say KUDOS to SW for drawing a line in the sand.

The short shorts, and micro-minis, and bare midfriff while walking about the parks...I am a bellydancer by profession, so believe me, I am no prude when it comes to skin showing. But it is about appropriate CONTEXT. I would not have an issue with the same girls out on the town for clubbing (okay,well I would simply because they look SKANKY and it's gross to see them dressing with such lack of respect for themselves, but I wouldn't applaud anyone trying to stop them in that context, certainly).

I say good on them. Thanks Southwest, for taking a stand. I would love to see some dress-code standards on planes, personally, but *shrug* nobody wants a police state.

And I bet dollars to donuts what she was wearing was not exactly what she wore...or more to the point HOW she wore it, if you get my meaning.

[Tinkerfreak]

I too wonder if she was wearing the outfit exactly the same way she was on the plane. She may have had the shirt pulled way down for all we know. I don't see a problem with the outfit the way it was on the news but the one thing I wonder about the skirt is how ladylike was she while wearing it. On the news when she sat down in the chair you could see up her skirt for a quick second even though she crossed her legs right away. I'm wondering if maybe she was flashing people for a minute while moving around and trying to get situated without realizing it.

[kakn7294]

I was an interview with the girl in the white mini-skirt, white shirt, and little green jacket/sweater - I don't know if this is the same girl that you are all referring to, but I felt she was dressed a little too scantily when it came to her skirt. When she sat down in the chair, you could clearly see her underwear when she crossed and uncrossed her legs - that's a bit too short for me. She was definately built to wear that outfit but she shouldn't sit down in it!

[disneydrmr]

From what I've seen her wearing I too don't think there is anything wrong.. but like others have pointed out.. she could possibly have adjusted the outfit to look more suitable for the press... AND.. it was based on someone's complaint... so as one other poster stated.. if a company is gonna use other people's complaints as their 'standard' then we have issues... they need to have a policy in place that is clearly spelled out to the public.. otherwise someone could complain about their seatmates and get them thrown off the plane just so they have the whole row to themselves. I have no problem with places issuing a dress code.. I'm all for it actually! I wish all places would do this as I'm kinda sick and tired of seeing people's underwear cause they wear their pants down around their knees....

[mttafire]

Well, to be honest, if people, especially younger people, would take consideration for what they are wearing, there would be no issues. If people like Lindsey Lohan, Britney Spears and Paris Hilton continue to be role models for young girls, there will be more things like this happening.

When my wife and I fly, we dress in a business casual style. I always wear long pants and a nice shirt. The clothes are comfortable but look nice.

To be honest, if that woman came into my office for an interview wearing that, I most likely would not consider her for the job. If one wants to dress sexy, do it at a club on a Saturday night.
Agreed. :thumbsup:

[Ian]

I say good on them. Thanks Southwest, for taking a stand. I would love to see some dress-code standards on planes, personally, but *shrug* nobody wants a police state.Not to pick nits, but it's not a police "state" if it's a private corporation issuing the standards. That phrase only applies to governmental bodies.

Personally, I don't get why girls today want to dress the way they do anyway. I think it's a shame their parents haven't taught them to respect themselves a little bit more. Fair or not, people treat you the way you appear to them and if you dress cheap they'll treat you like you're cheap.

Anyway, I stand by what I said originally. Southwest is a private company and they can do whatever they want to, just so long as it isn't discriminatory (and people who dress scantily are NOT members of a protected class!).

[January-2007]

Disclaimer: I don't have cable and don't watch much TV so I haven't heard anything about this except for what I read in this thread.

Reaction: My how times have changed! My grandfather worked for an airline and my mom has stories about them being all dressed up waiting hours and hours for stanby seats. Have you seen old movies? Or lived through these times gone by? Even when dressing was more casual at home, people dressed up to fly. I don't know when this changed. I don't like what I'm reading about it being one passenger's complaint having a person kicked off a flight. But I haven't seen any pictures or read any articles. Just an observation.

[BigRedDad]

If she had been wearing an "I support hyjacking" t-shirt I could see the problem

Unfortunately, no matter how apprehensible or offensive that shirt would be to me, I would not have a problem with it due to the First Amendment.

Now, I watched the Today show interview online. At first, I was not against the outfit until she stood up and sat down. Here is where the problem lies. She stood up and the bottom of the skirt was at or above her wrists. She had to pull it down just to get it to where her palms would be if her arms were flat at her side. Then, when she sits down, everything was there to be seen. Any movement she would make, it would all be there for everyone to see. It would be my guess that this is where the problem lies. What would happen if a man 400lb man wore a Speedo and a muscle shirt onto the plane? What would happen if some guy spent the whole time staring up her skirt? Would she try to file harassment suits?

The only issue I see is the location the discussion took place. If it was that much of an issue, the flight attendant, pilot, and some 3rd party should have done it in the boarding ramp where no one else could see or hear it. She was given the option to change, go to a store in the terminal to get something else to wear, or put a blanket over. She made her choice. If it was that big of an issue to her, she should have stayed off the flight to reinforce her position for a lawsuit.

There is only one side of this story, so you can't tell what really happened.

[robyn221]

All this is particularly interesting (and somewhat ironic) when you consider the standard uniform for SWA's air hostesses in the early '70's, which I understand was designed by the first owner/CEO. Granted, they wore hot pants (really not much more than underwear worn on the outside) rather than mucho-micro-miniskirts. If you go to the SWA website, click on "About Southwest," then "Ad Gallery" and scroll to the bottom of the page, you'll find a link to an archive of their Video Gallery and their television advertisements. There you can watch their ads from 1972, featuring their hostesses dressed in the uniform of the day. (PM me and I will send you the link.)

Robyn:mickey:

[SteveL]

Whoever complained to SW obviously has very little to worry about in life.

[RBrooksC]

Unfortunately, no matter how apprehensible or offensive that shirt would be to me, I would not have a problem with it due to the First Amendment


The First Ammendment only applies to the government. The Bill of Rights is Rights we have as citizens that the GOVERNMENT shall not infringe. Private companies have the right to do whatever they want to do within the law.

[Disney Doll]

I have always liked Southwest and this doesn't change my opinion about them. They do publicize a policy which states that they may remove passengers at their discretion for inappropriate clothing. If other passengers can see your undergarments when you sit or stand, your skirt is inappropriate. It's a flight not a night club for gosh sakes. Time and place. The best rule to follow would be- err on the side of caution. If you are unsure whether or not your outfit is appropriate, it's probably not. I think SW was completely within their rights. Hopefully all this publicity will get people to think twice about what they wear in public.

[BelleLovesTheBeast]

Whoever complained to SW obviously has very little to worry about in life.

I have to agree. I wish that was my biggest worry in life.

I haven't seen but one picture and it's the one with the white outfit and green sweater. Since they don't have a dress code posted and it was due to a complaint .....does that mean if I complain about someone talking loudly or a kid that keeps yelling they will tell them to shut up?

[mttafire]

The First Ammendment only applies to the government. The Bill of Rights is Rights we have as citizens that the GOVERNMENT shall not infringe. Private companies have the right to do whatever they want to do within the law.

YEP. If ANY company refused me service based soley on the color of my shirt for example..They are 100% intitled to do so. Southwest did NOTHING wrong here. 100% allowed. Now, If folks dont like it..Then dont patronize that particular company.

[DNS]

Well, to be honest, if people, especially younger people, would take consideration for what they are wearing, there would be no issues. If people like Lindsey Lohan, Britney Spears and Paris Hilton continue to be role models for young girls, there will be more things like this happening.

When my wife and I fly, we dress in a business casual style. I always wear long pants and a nice shirt. The clothes are comfortable but look nice.

To be honest, if that woman came into my office for an interview wearing that, I most likely would not consider her for the job. If one wants to dress sexy, do it at a club on a Saturday night.
I agree. My niece is not very conservative, but she said she would actually now be more inclined to use Southwest because she thought what they did was a good thing. (Her opinion, of course.)

[Ed]

Working in an airport (MCO) for the last five years, I can tell you that the outfits I have seen on some people - women and men alike - push the limits of common decency and good taste over the edge. I have seen MANY cases of passengers being denied boarding unless and until they covered up or otherwise cleaned up their act. And I've seen it with several different airlines, not just Southwest.

When you purchase air travel, at some point in the process you agree to be bound by that airline's "Contract of Carriage", which is virtually identical from airline to airline. In the case of Southwest, following is an excerpt from their CoC (which, incidentally, is 37 pages long):

F. Comfort and Safety - Carrier may refuse to transport or remove from the aircraft at any
point any passenger in the following categories as may be necessary for the comfort or safety of such passenger or other passengers:

(1) Persons whose conduct is or has been known to be disorderly, abusive, offensive, threatening, intimidating, or violent, or whose clothing is lewd, obscene, or patently offensive; [emphasis added]

The various CoC's almost all basically give the airlines the right to refuse transportation to anyone for any reason. And you have agreed to be bound by those provisions when you purchased your tickets.

So, bottom line - - As Ian pointed out, it's their airline, their airplanes, their rules.

[Ian]

Thanks, Ed! I was actually hoping you'd weigh in on this issue, knowing how involved you are with air travel. I wanted to see what an insider's viewpoint was.

[AvonleaCF]

Wow I guess I'm the only one who DOESN'T support Southwest on this one. I really think they were out-of-line and I saw nothing wrong with her outfit. It's not like she was wearing a bikini.

I've never flown Southwest before but I doubt I will now. I wouldn't want to be treated like that.

But it seriously does bring up where the line is drawn. Seriously, if I take offense to anything about the people next to me can I complain? If a child behind me is screaming before the flight takes off can I have them removed for causing me auditory stress?

There are so many bigger things to worry about than someone's clothing. She was flying to Phoenix where it was 110 degrees. Not like she's gonna wear a sweatsuit. And it's not like she was a minor either.

And I like I said in my other post, I saw the outfit. I would never have thought "inappropriate" had I seen her walking through the airport. I honestly don't care how the people around me dress, just as long as they don't smell.

[Ed]

...and I saw nothing wrong with her outfit. It's not like she was wearing a bikini.
...Seriously, if I take offense to anything about the people next to me can I complain? If a child behind me is screaming before the flight takes off can I have them removed for causing me auditory stress?

Let's clarify: you say you saw nothing wrong with her outfit. You are certainly entitled to that opinion, but I am assuming that you are referring to how she looked in the outfit when interviewed on TV where she was seeking public support for what she perceived as bad treatment by the airline. (Does anyone else smell probable mega-$$$ litigation here?) Has anyone really clarified exactly how she looked on the aircraft when presumably she had not primped and prepared herself - and her clothing - for a national audience? Several folks have mentioned that she looked less-than-ladylike when she sat down and/or crossed her legs on TV. Wouldn't that be the same case in the tight confines of the aircraft?

You have an absolute right to complain to the flight crew about anything that you find offensive or annoying, but you do not have a right to demand that the perceived offender be removed from the flight. That decision rests entirely with the flight crew, just as it did in the case that brought about this entire discussion.

By the way, you mention body odor; SWA's CoC specifically addresses that issue and gives the flight crew the right to remove any smelly passengers UNLESS the odor is the result of an unavoidable medical condition. I tell you - they cover almost everything in those 37 pages of legalese!

[AvonleaCF]

By the way, you mention body odor; SWA's CoC specifically addresses that issue and gives the flight crew the right to remove any smelly passengers UNLESS the odor is the result of an unavoidable medical condition.

Heh. I actually said that in jest, but good to know.

I still don't see the big deal. Like I said, there are so many other things in this world to worry about.

But one fact remains clear: the way it was handled was definitely inappropriate. According to her nobody said anything to her until right before take off, and then they brought her to the front of the plane and demanded she leave in front of everyone. That is horribly rude. She could have been approached while waiting or right after boarding, and been told in private. THAT'S what really irritates me and makes me never want to fly Southwest.

Oh, and I work in travel, and have never once seen the CoC of any airlines. Goes to show that these things aren't in-your-face accesable.

[SteveL]

As long as she was wearing undergarments, I don't see what all the fuss was about. You see more exposed skin at any beach or water park and nobody complains about it. Perhaps there is something about being on an aircraft that suddenly makes it offensive.
Personally, I would be happier if the airlines and the DOT put more effort into restricting what can be carried or thrown in checked luggage. Everyday there are numerous hazards such as hair spray, perfume, etc. that are thrown about by the baggage handlers in checked luggage. But apparently the possibilty of catching a glimpse of a passengers panties is a real problem.

[MNNHFLTX]

After seeing all the pictures and interviews revolving around this story, these are my thoughts:

1. The outfit the young lady was wearing was marginally appropriate when she was standing. Unfortunately the scales tipped against her once she sat down.

2. Southwest did not handle the situation as well as it could have.

3. The young lady in question is milking the publicity for all she is worth.

What I find strange is that she states she wore the same outfit on the return trip.:confused:

[BelleLovesTheBeast]

I just think they should have a dress code posted. Put on the website and at the airport what is considered to be appropriate or not. Just like bars and clubs do. For example, hats must be worn facing forward, men can't wear sleeveless shirts, etc. Otherwise it will end up being that one day something is okay and the next it isn't. Then it becomes an issue.

[kakn7294]

Oh, and I work in travel, and have never once seen the CoC of any airlines. Goes to show that these things aren't in-your-face accesable.
Southwest's is rather easy to find if you go to the Travel Tools section of their website then check under policies. It's listed right there. I've looked at it several times for info on luggage restrictions and strollers as luggage.


As long as she was wearing undergarments, I don't see what all the fuss was about.
Actually, we don't know for sure that she was wearing any! Nobody has said she wasn't, but nobody has confirmed what she actually was wearing that was considered offensive and why. I haven't seen any interviews with any of the flight crew or other passenger(s) who considered her dress offensive. We only know her side of the story and I'm betting there's more to it than she's telling!

[NotaGeek]

I don't know. I am particularly more offended by Southwests claim to lower airfares and them standing back on their age-old cattle call for seats as the answer than I was at that ladies mini-skirt.

I think its particularly offensive to have South West Flight Attendants having shorts in their uniform as normal dress. I don't enjoy staring at bare legs from a sitting position and having ANYONES legs brushing against me uninvited is kind of gross. And, to that, on the few times I have flown Southwest in the past few years when price really forced me to climb aboard, I have noticed MANY shorts on both men and women that were too short for my liking actually being worn by their staff. :ack:

But all those posting previously are correct, I usually fly someone else when possible, as it's my choice to subject myself to Southwest, so I don't complain, on board anyway :secret:.

On another note, I think that since September 11 there is SUCH a power trip among some of the flight attendants working for US based airlines. No one is allowed to disagree, interject, say NO to any request, or you run the risk of being arrested. So, if someone pulls you off the plane and tells you you are a disgrace and dressed inappropriately you MUST just agree, apologize and ask if there's any possible way that you can cover yourself in toilet paper and take the disgrace and return to your seat? I think not. I do agree with needing full and proper security in the air. But, a short skirt isn't a security breach just because someone complained. :soapbox:

[JPL]

What I find strange is that she states she wore the same outfit on the return trip.:confused:

I don't find this strange at all. If she spoke to a lawyer before her return trip I'm sure he advised her to wear it. It makes for a stronger case if they want to tear apart the dress code standards. It becomes easier to say she wore thhe same outfit on one of your aircraft and it was ok the first time she was given a problem. It will totally discredit SW's claims of any sort of set criteria for their dress code.

[magicofdisney]

I don't find this strange at all. If she spoke to a lawyer before her return trip I'm sure he advised her to wear it. It makes for a stronger case if they want to tear apart the dress code standards. It becomes easier to say she wore thhe same outfit on one of your aircraft and it was ok the first time she was given a problem. It will totally discredit SW's claims of any sort of set criteria for their dress code.
I think if a lawyer "advised" her to wear the outfit again, you can bet she toned it down the next time.

[2Epcot]

if a company is gonna use other people's complaints as their 'standard' then we have issues... they need to have a policy in place that is clearly spelled out to the public.. otherwise someone could complain about their seatmates and get them thrown off the plane just so they have the whole row to themselves.


If she spoke to a lawyer before her return trip I'm sure he advised her to wear it. It makes for a stronger case if they want to tear apart the dress code standards.

Southwest Airlines has been my primary travel airline for the last 10 to 12 years. I'm usually flying between the LA area and Phoenix, or sometimes to Las Vegas. Once in a while I've seen people who have caught my attention, but they've always been allowed to fly.

I don't remember where these other incidents took place, but it is well known that the flights between Burbank, CA and Las Vegas, are often filled with "entertainers" going to Vegas for the weekend to work. Usually it is not to hard to spot them, just the way the ladies are dressed. If this is a company wide policy, they don't seem to be using the same standards everywhere.

[minnie1956]

I support SWA, unfortunately, she was NOT at the beach. Unfortunately, the Paris' and Lindsey's of our society have lowered the standards so much it's sad. Unless you are showing tons of skin you aren't "hot". You know, we all have the same body parts, arranged differently yes, but they are all the same. I don't want to see yours. I'm sure the men feel differently, but I'm tired of the skin parade. We won't even talk about how trashy a lot of people dress at WDW......
I'll fly SWA anytime.

[harlowandthemermaid]

I do agree that her skirt was too short but there was absolutely nothing wrong with her shirt. A cami is completely normal' on a hot day, I don't think I would've even worn a sweater unless the plane was cold. But I would've worn bermudas or capris, not a micromini. I do think they need to be specific about their dress code, not just say
"offensive to others" because that is too vague. Does anyone know if the "offended " person was male or female?

[Ian]

Has anyone heard their new commerical about this yet??

Am I crazy, or do they basically admit they were wrong??

[2Epcot]

Has anyone heard their new commerical about this yet??

Am I crazy, or do they basically admit they were wrong??

I have not heard their commercial, but I did read their blog on their website. They basically say they don't have a dress code, and it was just a judgement call by the flight attendant.

[Clotho]

I don't believe in "everything must be specific and in writing". That is how the insanely ridiculous law system of our day has come into play. And even if you DID outline it, people would argue it and debate it and complain about it.

I think keeping it more open to interpretation based on the situation is the smartest way to approach it. I mean really...do you think that was an outfit conservative enough to be confusing as to whether it *might** offend someone?? No. That outfit offends probably about 50% of the people who see it and that girl KNOWS it. She works at freaking HOOTERS. She knows...let's not kid ourselves.

[TheDuckRocks]

I don’t know if any of you saw her on the Dr. Phil show but it was a very eye opening experience. Dr. Phil was very much on her side on the issue of an individual being allowed to wear what they want, kind of surprised me. Her mom and her lawyer were with her. Mom was wearing a skirt that hiked up as far on her as the girl’s did as she sat there with her legs crossed.
Dr. Phil bluntly asked her what it was she wanted from the airline. She replied that she only wanted an apology. Dr. Phil then asked her if she got one would that mean she would not be pressing any further legal action. She replied that that was what she wanted just the apology. Dr. Phil then got a big smile on his face and told her that Southwest had contracted them and he read an official apology to the girl. After a shocked look at her lawyer all of a sudden she started back tracking and saying well maybe she would have to think it over because of how badly they made her feel and maybe there still would be a law suit. Dr. Phil just looked at her, shook his head and gave her his “You’ve got to be kidding me” line.
Very, very interesting.

[thrillme]

Heck...we know she doesn't just want an apology...she wants a free trip to Disney :mickey:

[DMApixie]

Dr. Phil was very much on her side on the issue of an individual being allowed to wear what they want, kind of surprised me. Her mom and her lawyer were with her...Dr. Phil bluntly asked her what it was she wanted from the airline. She replied that she only wanted an apology. Dr. Phil then asked her if she got one would that mean she would not be pressing any further legal action. She replied that that was what she wanted just the apology. Dr. Phil then got a big smile on his face and told her that Southwest had contracted them and he read an official apology to the girl. After a shocked look at her lawyer all of a sudden she started back tracking and saying well maybe she would have to think it over because of how badly they made her feel and maybe there still would be a law suit. Dr. Phil just looked at her, shook his head and gave her his “You’ve got to be kidding me” line.

Looks like Dr. Phill pulled a bait and switch. I love it! Just shows me that she is after the $$.

I recall seeing an interview on the local news with somebody from SW who stated that they took her off the plane and discussed the issue on the boarding ramp, in private. Anyone else see that interview?