What are schools thinking?

[Tink&Goofy]

I just got a letter from DD High School saying they were starting a new academic program. Sounds hopeful, right? Until I read that it is essentially a tutoring/study hall for a half hour a day solely for those students that have D's or are failing. Freshman are required to go, sophomores thru seniors have to go for the first couple week (regardless of grades). Those that are getting C's or above aren't required. So what do these kids do instead? They get a half hour extra long lunch as a "reward". So the way I see it, since my DD is a good student, she gets a half hour less school a day! Gee, that will help her preparing for college! Why are the good students penalized to raise the level of the lower students? Seems this remedial tutoring should be in place of one of those kids elective, or at a time outside of normal school hours.
I'm furious! I'm even more angry that nothing was mentioned about this prior to this notification, and they had registration just last week! I wonder if this even is allowed by the education requirements of the state! Anyone heard of such a thing?

[PirateLover]

Extra lunch?? Wow. You'd have thought they'd at LEAST make it a regular study hall with more liberties- allowed to do independent study, visit media center to research a project.

[chrisb26]

My High School did something simular to that. If you where getting a D or F then you would be required to go to a special study hall. Everybody had a study hall but those with the poorer grades where required to go to a smaller room where there where teachers and students in the room to help them. It was for a specific class usually. However anybody that needed help reguardless of grade was able to go during their lunch. I do find it strange that they would put an extra half hour to the students that is kind of strange. Is your daughter able to attend the help study hall or is only those with bad grades allowed to go?

[DizneyRox]

Well, with No Child Left Behind, everyone needs to be above a certain point. Those that are already there are great so you need to concentrate on the ones that are not.

In my book it's better than getting a certain average, where you focus on the smart kids to make up for the "dumb" kids.

[DizNee143]

ive been out of school for 6 years now...
i may be young and i may get flamed for this but..i dont see anything wrong with this...
obviously the kids that are doing well will be ready for college and all that stuff..and im sure all the kids who arent doing all that well...will be ready for college too..they just dont get great grades...i never really saw how HS helped you for college anyway...its a totally different experience!!
its just what i think...please dont make this turn into a fight...
remember..
to each his own!!!

[Terra]

I'm curious as to where they found the extra 1/2 hour? Did they shave off time from other classes essentially??

Oh, do they have some sort of PTA meetings there where you could go and voice your concerns with other parents who of similar mind?

The one thing that struck me too was that if I were one of the kids doing poorer, I'd actually feel more singled out with this as well. It's bad enough if you are having "legitimate" problems with academics, but then to be stuck in a class at a particular time so everyone will know what's up.

[MNNHFLTX]

I'm curious as to where they found the extra 1/2 hour? Did they shave off time from other classes essentially??That's what I wondered too.

I agree that this should have been presented to parents long before the school year began. However, I can see that there could be some positive outcomes. In an ideal academic environment, the high school students that need extra tutoring would be able to stay after school to get the help they need. However, in the real world, students often have job responsibilities (in our area, many low-income students help provide for their families), transportation issues or provide after-school care for their siblings. I think it is commendable that the school is providing a venue to ensure that students have time to get help and support. I do agree, though, that there should be a more structured plan in place for students not requiring tutoring, rather than just providing an extra long lunch period.

[Ian]

I can sort of see both sides of this. I kind of agree with DizNee143 in the fact that high school really doesn't prepare you for college all that much anyway and the smart kids are the ones who are probably already closest to being ready anyway.

I mean it's only 30 minutes ...

But then again, as a parent I also see the OP's side of it. I'd be really angry if I was paying the same outrageous school taxes as everyone else and my kid was getting 30 minutes less education a day. I mean with the dismal state of our public school systems and how poorly they're doing already, I'm not sure cutting out class time is the best idea.

[MickeyandTink]

In our school district, this year kids with at least a "B" average will get released one period early and those students below will use that extra period for "tutoring" (that means preparing for the TAKS test, courtesy of No Child Left Behind).

Although DD still has a few years before she will need to start taking those tests, I think it is a ridiculous idea. :mad: I'd much rather have them use the "free time" for PE (most of our students only get it one or two days a week) or for advanced studies (i.e. music lessons, college prep courses, or even how to rebuild an engine). But then again, it's all about the almighty test and not about education.

[DisneyDudet]

When I was in Jr High, we had what was called an Activity Period. That was after lunch usually, and it consisted of 3 different options for Jr High students.

First of which was free time- which was time in the Gym (supervised) to play basketball or sit on the sides and talk, do homework, whatever.

The second option was tutoring. This is the time that make up assignments were to be done if you were absent, retakes, or just if you needed help in a class or wanted a quiet place to do home work.

Third was D-hall or detention- this helped out those in athletics and such, so that you could attend d-hall, if you couldn't make the after school session. Or, if you had quite a few, you could knock out two d-halls in one day.

For those in high school, it was a little different. If you didn't have to attend tutoring or d-hall (if you had an outstanding d-hall you had to attend during activity period, no matter what, unless you had to go to tutoring.. b/c that came first), you could have an extra lunch.

All this actually worked out well. We were a college prep private school.

As a former student and a teacher's daughter, I see no problem in this. If they allow those not requiring tutoring to come in and do homework quietly or could work on projects in the library, I see no problem in this. Although, if it were my decision, anyone w/ an average lower than a B would be in mandatory tutoring.

I would say, they are trying to find a way to boost test scores or it could be something the state has brought out. If you are concerned, attending a PTA or making an appointment with the principal may help answer questions and voice opinions.

[Tink&Goofy]

I'm curious as to where they found the extra 1/2 hour? Did they shave off time from other classes essentially??


Yes - the way it was worded was that the classes before lunch (they alternate "A" and "B" days, so it would affect 2 classes - alternating every other day).


In our school district, this year kids with at least a "B" average will get released one period early and those students below will use that extra period for "tutoring" .

Very similar. I just don't know how they can get away with this. I know that the state sets the total education hours required for a full day. I know most schools set the school day to just meet this standard. If they are letting them leave early, or giving them extra non-class time (lunch) how can they be getting the required hours?

All kids are allowed to go to the tutoring/study hall, but she doesn't need it. She usually gets all of her homework done in class. Seems like they should have something available for the TAG students rather than just wasting a half hour at lunch.

Honestly, I can see both sides - as my middle DD is special needs, and when she reaches high school, this tutoring will be invaluable. However, I honestly believe that students that require this extra tutoring, should be required to take this as one of their "electives", that way they get the help they need, and those who are doing just fine would get the stimulation they need. I would have no problem with my middle DD being required to take a study hall/tutoring as an elective - in fact I would LOVE it. It just seems that they are gearing everything to the lowest common denominator, and that is leaving a large chunk (those doing just fine, thank you very much), out in the cold. It should be about achieving the potential of each, no matter what level they are at.

[DisneyDudet]

The state usually regulates what is counted as an Elective. Also, it would defeat the purpose of the tutoring. If you had to sign up at the beginning of the year, then you may not have the students that require the tutoring in the class.

I would voice your concerns to the principal. Find out how this will affect your child directly.

This could also be just a trial period. You may never see this again.

[Stu29573]

This is NCLB (No Child Left Behind, aka No Child Left Untested, No School Left Unpunished, etc...) plain and simple. Hopefully congress will pass the promised revisions soon.....

[Jeff]

Wow! I can't believe giving kids an extra long lunch is a good plan. I help monitor our lunch room every day - lunch and passing times are where most behavioral problems happen. Longer lunch = longer unstructured time = more problems. No thank you!

I do agree with several others though that it must be an attempt to help meet NCLB and AYP(adequate yearly progress).

The time is probably not an issue as most high schools are over the "required" hours set by the States. It is usually the elementary buildings that have trouble meeting hours and are often close due to weather days.

[snowflakegirl]

I work at an elementary school, so it's a little bit different, but we're doing something simillar this year. Although without the extra down time for students who aren't struggling. It's sort of in response to a number of things, initiaves like Professional Learning Communities, Response to Intervention and of course in some respects No Child Left Behind.

At our school it's going to be implemented in such a way that each day at the same time (it's different for each grade level) there will be a half hour block of time. There will be five "rooms" that the students will be split into. They will be assigned to these rooms for a full week (with the exception of one room, which I'll get to). I'm working with the sixth grade team on implementing their plan and what we're doing for next week is that there is a room for "Math Review" and some specific students who are specifically struggling in this week's concepts will be assigned that room for some extra help/intervention to help get them on the right page. Two other rooms will be "Project rooms" where kids can work on their ongoing projects or start new projects of their own interest. The fourth room is a math project with real world applications, taking what they're learning in class and showing them how to relate it to things they think are important. The fifth room is a quiet reading/writing room. Everyone will be assigned to one of those five rooms (mostly by a sign up system). The sixth room is the room that kids will not be assigned to but will be able to choose to utilize on a given day, and that is a room that is essentially a study hall ... They can start homework, catch up on classwork, or if they didn't do homework the night before it's an opportunity to try to finish it. Each week the room topics may change slightly, but there will always be two project rooms, a study hall, a reading/writing room, an enrichment room, and a review room. We also plan on making sure that the same kids aren't always ending up in the review room and therefore looking at this 1/2 hour block as a punishment rather than another learning time.

This time block will also be used for music lessons and committee meetings for the sixth grade community teams which is a program we do to help foster community engagement and caring.

It's stil in its infancy, this is a brand new initiative at our school this year, so I'm not sure how this will work in practice, but it has promise.

[thrillme]

I can kinda see both sides here. I know my DS HATES it when he's "already in the ballgame" and the class has to slow down for others that don't get it. He's just one of those kids that "usually" learns best when you don't flower things up with artwork or too much explaination. Show him how to add 2+2 once and he'll be able to do the rest...you don't need to put Sally's Apples and Jack's Oranges in front of him. So putting those kids in a class or session to help push them along while giving the others a little WELL DESERVED freedom could be a nice thing.

I'm not all pumped on the "No Child Left Behind" because it really seems to slow down the OTHER children who are ahead of the game. But of course ALL kids will fall behind a bit sometimes...this is normal.

30 minutes off earlier at school sounds pretty cool to me provided they have a ride home. My DS would really love it since Grandma is still picking him up. If no ride is available it seems like it would be beneficial to offer these students "Basketball time", "Game Time" (board games or chess) or "Study Hall" . OR 30 minutes extra lunch...I LOVED socializing with my friends during lunch. That was always a BLAST in high school. I don't have a problem with students that work hard and get good grades to be "rewarded".

I haven't quite figured out somethings about the "system". It seems like too there are soooo many classes a child attends (in middle school at least)...EIGHT classes a day. That could equate to a LOT of homework, 25 minutes reading, 25 minutes watching news, 25 minutes instrument practice, 25 minutes of CLASS homework like science, math and social studies...That adds up a lot. "Study Hall" has been replaced with "Advisory"...which strikes me as STUPID.

Sometimes I think we're putting so much pressure on kids today we're forgetting they're still supposed to be kids...I guess I'd just like to see them out and having some "fun" till the day they graduate and have to become SERIOUS.

[Tygger7]

And this is the reason I pulled my DD out of public schools and started homeschooling. Our district's idea of "challenging" the smart kids was to have them tutor the kids that were having problems. May sound like a nice thing to do initially, but it's not at all fair to the smart kids. They did away with their "Talented & Gifted Program", and this was the replacement. Basically, it's a way for the school to get "free help" and not have to pay for a teacher to work with the smart kids. The school really doesn't give a **** about the kids...just having good test scores so they stay out of trouble with the state and don't get put on probation. I have several friends that are teachers, and they're frustrated with the restrictions they have to work under. As one teacher told me, he spends 90% of his day dealing with 20% of the students, and the other 80% have to sit around and wait on the 20%. I'll get off my soapbox now...:soapbox:I've just had bad experiences with public schools my whole life, both as a student and now as a parent.

[meldan98]

No Child Left Behind is a joke. My mom has worked in the same school for more than 20 years as an assistant, and was required to get 48 units of college in order to keep her job in special ed. My mom looked into it, and she didn't even need 48 unit of early childhood education. It just had to be 48 unit. It could have been in PE and under water basket weaving, it didn't matter. She says that all they do now is teach kids how to pass tests. Most of the kids get all stressed out when it comes to the tests, and some of the really bright students get freaked out and do poorly, because the school is counting on them to bring up their average.