Has anyone else read this?/DDP Changes [Merged Threads]

[luvdiznee]

Tips not included in 2008 Disney Dining Plan. "Folks booking on the 2008 Dining Plan (for trips starting January 1) may find a nasty surprise: some reports claim that no longer will tips be included in the meal." I have read this a couple of times and am just more curious about it. If it turns out to be true, would the DP be worth it to you? :popcorn:

[SBETigg]

With or without tips included, we save money on the DP. The answer is yes, still worth it.

[Caroleh]

I'd have to say yes also. It still saves us money.

[LandFan]

Yeah - I love that I didn't have to budget for anything!! I would still do it in a heartbeat!

[Jen C.]

Yes, it would still be worth it to us. I don't know why, and I understand some would think it's a waste, but we almost always tip 15% above the included gratuity in the DDP anyway.

[wendy*darling]

Yes, this is very likely happening for 2008.
The rumored reason is because even though there is already a tip included in your "bill," your servers are not receiving that tip (or not all of it at least).
Removing the tip from the DDP wil ensure that your server will actually get whatever tip you feel is appropriate.

I have not heard if the price of the plan is changing in any way for 2008.

[Sunshine1010]

Perhaps the service will get better?....

(I've always had good service except for 1 time, but I've heard many other posts/threads saying that they've had bad service)

[droopy d.]

If they are not going to include tipping on the DDP anymore the plan with inflation should be about 13% less than last year. If it's not then your paying a lot more than last year.

[vamaggie]

I have seen rumors of this posted here but cannot seem to find anything official(on this site or the WDW one). Is there somewhere I can go to read about this? TIA

[ElenitaB]

Until I see this on the Disney site or hear it from one of Intercot's reliable sources, I'm not going to lose sleep over it. I probably would continue to get the DDP though, as I like the idea of that part of our trip being "prepaid."

[Mommy2boys]

I dont know too much about the dining plan but from what I know it would still be worth it.

[shan-ash]

While I am still in favor of the dining plan, I am concerned about having the correct amount of cash on hand for the proper tip. Would we be able to charge the tip?

[Mickey91]

If the price of the plan didn't change for the better, we may not purchase it. Think about a $200.00 meal. That would be $40.00 at 20percent. Hardly worth it. If we did do the dining plan without tip, since the employees are the ones who didn't want it, they will be the ones not to get it!:mad:

[Here we go again...]

We would still do it. We also give an additional tip for good service anyway.

Of course we do not carry too much cash, so they would have to find a way to let you charge it to the room. The way it is set up now you have to have cash to tip over because there is no way to add to the current charge after it is closed. I carry $10 or $20 but not $40 or $50!

I tried to book the dining plan for our February trip but was not allowed. They said the plan for 2008 has not been released.

[Hammer]

If the price of the plan didn't change for the better, we may not purchase it. Think about a $200.00 meal. That would be $40.00 at 20percent. Hardly worth it. If we did do the dining plan without tip, since the employees are the ones who didn't want it, they will be the ones not to get it!:mad:

We haven't any proof it was the employees who decided they did not want it, we only have a rumor. Don't be so quick to be angry at the employees. If the rumor is true, though, the workers at many of the restaurants weren't receiving 18%. Some places the server receives as little as $5 per person who ate there with the dining plan, which isn't even close to 18%. Hey, on my restaurant bills, that isn't even 10% which I would be embarrassed to leave at a restaurant! I'm angry at management for selling their employees so short!


All I know is I am dining at Wolfgang Puck's my first night and they only give there employees $5 "tip" per person on the dining plan. As I know we will spend more than $25 per person, I'll leave extra for my server so they will get 18-20% (it is my understanding if a person gives extra tip on the Dining Plan, the server does get that money).

[dbmarie]

All I know is I am dining at Wolfgang Puck's my first night and they only give there employees $5 "tip" per person on the dining plan
Is this accurate? Is this only at Wolfgang Puck's or do other restaurants also give a set tip instead of the 18%?

[Figment!]

I have seen rumors of this posted here but cannot seem to find anything official(on this site or the WDW one). Is there somewhere I can go to read about this? TIANope, cause it is not (yet at least) official.

A few UK Travel Agencies have started to report that the 2008 Dining Plan will contain some changes; however, it is not clear how reputable the information is at this point-in-time.

[Hammer]

Is this accurate? Is this only at Wolfgang Puck's or do other restaurants also give a set tip instead of the 18%?

Well, it was reported by Natazu (Jym) so it is possible he has inaccurate information, but Jym is pretty much on the money when it comes to Dining at WDW. Here is the link (http://intercot.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=108696) to the thread discussing it.

[TBY2225]

I also heard this rumour on a WDW podcast. I also heard of some other changes and additions such as a dining plan with a bottle of wine per day and also a different primium package that included 3 meals a day, 2 snacks and a resort mug. Once again these are rumours, but interesting all the same.

[KevGuy]

Not including the tip is stupid IMO. The servers will get even less now I bet, not to mention all the confusion that will happen as people will not realize the tip is not included and still think it is the old way and not have any moey for it. Plus at Disney prices for food people will start leaving less than 18%, and perhaps a lot less if the service isn't outstanding! If this happens I'm thinking the DME will be the way to go instead...:mickey:

[BMan62]

I would hope that they would restructure the dining plan with an 'a la carte' style - allow the purchaser to design their own plan.

Say I want 2 CS meals a day and no TS, or maybe 2 snacks per day - make it so that I could customize my plan.

With the current cost of the plan being around $40 per adult per day, break it up into component parts: $25 for TS, $12.50 for CS, $2.50 for snack. Then maybe allow 4 snacks = 1 CS or 2 CS = 1 TS.

Of course, this would cause major confusion at the registers as well, but since the plan isn't perfect to start with...

[Bethis26fan]

If they are not going to include tipping on the DDP anymore the plan with inflation should be about 13% less than last year. If it's not then your paying a lot more than last year.

But think about it this way gas prices and everything else has went up, even in our local markets prices have rose due to gas. I'm sure the same effect has happend at disney.

[Polynesian Dweller]

Whether the plan is worth it or not depends on the restaurants being offered. The amount of tip included is less important. With the number of restaurants at DTD being reduced this year it was a close call for us. More reductions in the restaurant list and I don't know. I'll wait to see this all official before I worry about it.:mickey:

[GrmGrninGost]

If the wait staff is not getting the 18%, who is? I have had at least two waitresses tell me not to worry about leaving extra, because the tip was already included in the DDP. I am most confused by this. Would it not be illegal to take my money, tell me it was a tip and then not give it to the waitress? :confused: Can anyone clarify this situation?

[Sunshine1010]

Will the cost of the dining plan decrease then?

[LibertyTreeGal]

still worth it, but I think the servers won't be happy with the results....

[Hammer]

If the wait staff is not getting the 18%, who is? I have had at least two waitresses tell me not to worry about leaving extra, because the tip was already included in the DDP. I am most confused by this. Would it not be illegal to take my money, tell me it was a tip and then not give it to the waitress? :confused: Can anyone clarify this situation?

As Jym explained it in the post I linked above, many of the restaurants at Disney, but not owned by Disney, did not give the 18% tip money they would receive as part of a patron using the Dining Plan, but rather give the waitstaff a portion or a flat fee. I think they could do this, and this is only an educated guess based on my taking of a couple labor management relations classes in college, because the dining plan came after the last labor agreement, before the one which was just passed, did not have any mention on how Dinig Plan tips were to be handled. Thus restaurants could handle it as they saw fit and some decided to keep a portion of the money which they were given for the tips to increase their profits. Now many restaurants were giving their waitstaff the full 18%, so it is quite possible that the waitresses with whom you spoke were from those restaurants.

If this rumor does become true, I think it is possible that many of the non-Disney owned restaurants which currently accept the plan will drop out in 2008 as they will lose the extra money they were getting out of the Dining Plan.

[luvdiznee]

Will the cost of the dining plan decrease then?

There was no mention of this.

[Sunshine1010]

........If they don't lower the price, ....well, more money for disney.

[Marker]

This is destined to be one of those can't win no matter what you do decissions.

I've read countless complaints about the included tips in the Dining Plan including
complaints accusing the included tips for a decline in service.

So, now they're talking about not including tips with the Dining Plan, and letting servers collect tips directly from the patrons...... and guess what, MORE COMPLAINTS.

Nope, they will never win with this one, hopefully the servers will.

[KevGuy]

I think the servers will get less in the end by not having tips included. Many people will be confused that tips are no longer included and forget to bring extra cash for it, also I think that less than stellar service will incur more tip wrath from the customers and in many cases they will get less than 15%. I think they should leave it as is in tems of structure and just charge a few dollars more. It would still be a good deal. But if they charge higher and include no tips, then for me anyway DME may be the new way to go....

[Mickey91]

One of the selling points for DDP is the tip is included. I can understand that servers want to receive their share. If the company is telling guests that there is an 18 percent gratuity included, then the servers should be getting that gratuity. If not, it should not be the responsibility of the guests having to pay more, but of the company keeping its word and giving the gratuity to the servers. If the dining plan stays the same price and gratuity is not included, the savings and appeal will drop dramatically.

[kaylamag]

I just saw in another disney web sites newsletter that beginning in 2008 gratuity will not be included in the dining plan. Also the dining plan will no longer include an appetizer for the table service meal. The table service meal will now only include an entree, dessert, and non-alcoholic beverage. The price per person will decrease by one dollar to 37.99 for adults and 9.99 for children. A new deluxe dining plan will be introduced for 69.99 for adults and 19.99 for children. This plan includes per person per day, three meals your choice of table or counter service (appetizer included in the dinner) two snacks, and a resort refillable mug.
Of course i haven't seen this on Intercot yet so i can't say that it is true, as i don't belive anything until i see it posted on this site!

[GoinGoofyPlanninThisTrip]

I'm interested in seeing if this is true. If so, I'm glad we went the last two years when the plan was "normal".

[frakers]

I had read that, too. So, the "great deal" is no longer so great. It is, effectively, almost a 20% increase in the price. That is unheard of in most any venue. Heck, just raise the price and keep the tips included if you're going to mess with it. At least it would still be convenient having everything included.
We sat around one day figuring which restaurants we would eat at on our trip this September and what we would probably order and the dining plan would have saved just a bit of money. I say this because on our own we wouldn't have ordered an appetizer and probably not dessert. Now the appetizer is gone and the tips are gone and suddenly it costs more than doing it on our own.
I know, lots of folks on here will say they like the convenience of having it all there. Well, that is what Disney is counting on, folks thinking it is easier. But spending more money for less is not convenient to me. Just take the money you'd spend on the plan, sock it away till your trip and when you check in put the cash on your room. Right there you have your own, homemade dining plan, tip included.
A 20% price increase for less reward is ridiculous. No way I would ever do that. Ever.

[Maleficent's Dad]

I just saw in another disney web sites newsletter that beginning in 2008 gratuity will not be included in the dining plan. Also the dining plan will no longer include an appetizer for the table service meal. The table service meal will now only include an entree, dessert, and non-alcoholic beverage. The price per person will decrease by one dollar to 37.99 for adults and 9.99 for children. A new deluxe dining plan will be introduced for 69.99 for adults and 19.99 for children. This plan includes per person per day, three meals your choice of table or counter service (appetizer included in the dinner) two snacks, and a resort refillable mug.
Of course i haven't seen this on Intercot yet so i can't say that it is true, as i don't belive anything until i see it posted on this site!
I just read the same thing from Deb Wills.

Now I know she's not Intercot, but she's pretty darned good. Reading it from her, I take it that it's a done deal.

[MartyS]

1) Gratuity will be removed from ALL 2008 packages that include dining. Tax will be INCLUDED, but the gratuity will not be.

2) The Magic Your Way Plus Dining Plan will no longer include an appetizer in the daily table service meal. The table service option will only include: entree, dessert and non-alcoholic beverage. The price per day per person will decrease by $1, to $37.99 for ages 10 and older; $9.99 for ages 3-9.

3) A new Magic Your Way Plus DELUXE Dining Plan will debut in 2008. This plan will include, per person, per day: three meals, your choice of table service or counter service (appetizer included in the dinner); two snacks; and a resort refillable mug. Signature restaurants will still count as two table service meals. Price, including tax, but NOT gratuity, will be $69.99 for ages 10 and older and $19.99 for ages 3-9.

Other additional rumored changes may also be introduced. Again, this is UNofficial information. Look for Walt Disney World to officially announce the 2008 packages and dining options in August.

[DizneyRox]

... If this happens I'm thinking the DME will be the way to go instead...


... But if they charge higher and include no tips, then for me anyway DME may be the new way to go....

What does Disney's Magical Express have to do with dining?

Also, this appears to coinside with the "tiered" dining approach that I've been hearing about. Different than I thought however. Appears the TS places will be VERY busy in 2008! Good thing I like the chicken fingers...

[tinksmom02]

I got the same newsletter today, and this info made me pause. Theoretically (since it hasn't been announced here, it's still a rumor :)) they are taking away the appetizer and the tip, and those two things are worth only $1?? I don't know...the reason I was so excited about the DDP was because it was such a great value. The "new" plan doesn't sound like such a great value. It would be cheaper for us to go back to our "old' way of just one or two TS (breakfasts and lunches are cheaper!), and grab counter service the rest of the time. Which means that Disney will be losing a lot of money from this family!

[PirateLover]

Taking away the included tip AND the appetizer definitely makes the DDP less appealing for me. Maybe I'm weird but I like appetizers. I hardly ever eat dessert, though. On the DDP we would often take a dessert back to the room with us to eat as a snack later in the day, so we still did get the value. But oh well. If this is true then I guess it's back to counter service and one or two TS for us which I'm sure will make some people happy ;)

[Ms.Disney]

I think that the DP would still be worth it....but I was thinking the same thing as another poster, the poor staff maight be making even less because some people dont go by 15 18 or 20 % they only tip one flat price no matter what the bill is. I have seen it. I have even seen people post here that say they tip 1.50 per person at the table! (sorry I guess this turned into a mini rant :blush:)

[BrerStitch]

Well, just like the rest of the people, I have seen the rumored changes to the DDP. I wondered myself why the $1 decrease, seemed a bit odd in light of the fact that I was expecting an increase due to gas prices, travel costs, etc.

Anyway, if you stop to think about it, and maybe this is just my family, the amount of food that you get with the DDP is outrageous. I mean truthfully, think about it, how many of us actually would order all that anyway. I don't think the appetizer thing is such a big deal, you want one, order it.

It was convenient to have the tip included, but as long as you can charge the tip through the room key or regular credit card, who cares?

As for the rumored premium dining plan, WOW! Umm...I don't know about anyone else, but I don't need that much food! The refillable mug would be nice. I guess you could get the premium plan if you plan on eating at a bunch of signature places.

I think we would take a serious look at the cost of the plan and where we wanted to eat, but I think it will still be cost effective next year for us. As for the person posting about DME, perhaps they meant DDE, the Disney Dining Experience, just a thought!

Either way, some people were unhappy with the way it was, some people are unhappy with the way it might become. 'Can't please everyone all the time!:mickey:

[DizneyRox]

It was convenient to have the tip included, but as long as you can charge the tip through the room key or regular credit card, who cares?

Well, I think the DDP has always been about value. While I have never seen the "value" in the plan, others were very happy with it.

The difference would be:

Before, for $38.99 you got a snack, CS and dinner for $38.99. And just estimating, you could get a snack ($4) a counter service ($10) and with the remaining $25 you got a full table service meal with the tip, etc.

Now, you get a $4 snack, still about $10 for the counter service, and for $24 you get a entre and dessert and have to pay a tip to the server. That tip is NOT based on your $24 allowance, it's based on the entire bill, so if you get a $24 meal, you're looking at an additional $3.50 for tip OOP. Say you manage a $60 meal, you should leave $9 for the tip.

This in effect makes the DDP cost $41.50 a day possibly, maybe $47, maybe less, maybe more.

I can't reember the last time I spent $41 a day (average) over the course of a vacation. Certainly not $70 plus tip a day.

In general I'd consider a dessert as a freebe. Whenever there's a problem, I'm always comped the dessert, nothing else is usually offered, but they are quick to offer that. To me, that implies it's the most worthless portion of the meal.

I see no value in the plan anymore, other than overpaying for prepaying for your meals.

[LauraF]

3) A new Magic Your Way Plus DELUXE Dining Plan will debut in 2008. This plan will include, per person, per day: three meals, your choice of table service or counter service (appetizer included in the dinner); two snacks; and a resort refillable mug. Signature restaurants will still count as two table service meals. Price, including tax, but NOT gratuity, will be $69.99 for ages 10 and older and $19.99 for ages 3-9.
Wait a second . . .

If this ends up being the way it goes, then it would cost me much more on the new plan. It would cost me much less to pay cash at all three meals, even TS meals. And I *do* eat appetizer, entree and dessert at all my meals, so I would order one anyway, plan or not.

Example:
On my upcoming vacation, for giggles, I figured the cost of our meals for two people - CS or snack breakfasts, TS dinners, TS or CS lunches and snacks for a 6 night trip for two adults - $781, including gratuity, at a cost of $467.88. ($38.99 (2pp) x6) That's a 40% savings. Good deal! :D

On the new plan, $139.98 (2 pp) x 6 = $839.98. This doesn't work out to any savings. :thedolls: That's all I need to know.

EDIT - the above poster beat me to the calulations on the cheaper DDP sans appetizer (so I've deleted that section in my post), but they're right. You would end up paying more, for less. Let me think for a second . . . NO!

[mulderxcoltrane]

Wait a second . . .

"If this ends up being the way it goes, then it would cost me much more on the new plan. It would cost me much less to pay cash at all three meals, even TS meals. And I *do* eat appetizer, entree and dessert at all my meals, so I would order one anyway, plan or not."

Don't forget - the 69.99 per person is for the deluxe plan - which adds more food (mainly a 2nd TS meal).

[LauraF]

Don't forget - the 69.99 per person is for the deluxe plan - which adds more food (mainly a 2nd TS meal).
Agreed.
I assumed in my total a combination of TS and CS lunches, because I hear many people talk about not wanting a huge lunch. I don't know if I would want that every day either. A $25 CS-sized lunch for 2 is about right. :thumbsup:

[IloveDisney71]

they are taking away the appetizer and the tip, and those two things are worth only $1?? I don't know...the reason I was so excited about the DDP was because it was such a great value. The "new" plan doesn't sound like such a great value. It would be cheaper for us to go back to our "old' way of just one or two TS (breakfasts and lunches are cheaper!), and grab counter service the rest of the time. Which means that Disney will be losing a lot of money from this family!
I was thinking the same thing! I'm glad we are going again this December before they "possibly" do away with the current dining plan.

[LibertyTreeGal]

Yikes! Now the DDP costs too much and the Deluxe provides WAY too much food -- (anyone remember the silver plan :ack:)

Bye-bye DDP for me if this goes through! I can do without all the extra desserts and appetizers anyway and just have myself a nice entree every couple of days.

[dolphinmickey9170]

I just read the same thing from Deb Wills.

Now I know she's not Intercot, but she's pretty darned good. Reading it from her, I take it that it's a done deal.

I have to agree with you Frank, everything I have ever heard come from her has been right on the head of that nail. Not that I like what I hear, but there is nothing we can do about it.

I guess the 20% discount for the DDE would be the better way to go from now on for us.

[crazykids]

I know I'm probably in the minority here, but I'm really looking forward to the deluxe plan. My family really enjoys good food & we go to at least a few of the signature restaurants on each trip. We never look at the prices when we go out to eat, we just order what we want - this typically gets expensive. One night my husband & I dropped around $250 for dinner at Narcoossees! The $70 per person would be a welcomed change.

[kaylamag]

I myself would like the deluxe plan; however, i don't think i could talk my husband into it! I would do some nice table service breakfasts, cs lunch, and then nice dinners! It's nice that it gives you a choice of cs or ts, but i think the only way it would pay would be to do at least two ts per day.

[SignguyTom]

...


All I know is I am dining at Wolfgang Puck's my first night and they only give there employees $5 "tip" per person on the dining plan. As I know we will spend more than $25 per person, I'll leave extra for my server so they will get 18-20% (it is my understanding if a person gives extra tip on the Dining Plan, the server does get that money).



$5 is 20% of $25.00. Sounds like an OK deal for the server for a $25 meal....:confused:

[GoinGoofyPlanninThisTrip]

$5 is 20% of $25.00. Sounds like an OK deal for the server for a $25 meal....:confused:I believe that is what Hammer was trying to say...$5 is good for a $25 tab, but they will be spending more thus he is adding on to that $5.

[CleveSJM]

Not including the tip is stupid IMO. The servers will get even less now I bet, not to mention all the confusion that will happen as people will not realize the tip is not included and still think it is the old way and not have any moey for it. Plus at Disney prices for food people will start leaving less than 18%, and perhaps a lot less if the service isn't outstanding! If this happens I'm thinking the DME will be the way to go instead...:mickey:

You are exactly right. The servers will get even less now. Especially with all the foreign guests that don't tip at home anyway.

As for the servers not recieving their 18% from the DPP meals, that seems very illegal. My bill says I paid 18% for a tip. If the check says 18% and they are not getting it, then I would talk to HR and Legal pretty quick about how they are accounting for that "income." Does anyone want to hear "financial restatement?"

[princessjojo]

ASSUMING the dining plan changes are true, do I think it's worth the cost, absoutly not with regards to what I could pay out of pocket. I will consider it on way too many levels before I purchase it for our trip in June.

That said, it is hard to put a price on convience and from that perspective I can get closer to justification. With our family, the biggest losers here will be the wait staff. DH is a firm believer in the meaning of TIPS (To Insure Prompt Service) and leaves them accordingly. I can remember a handfull of occasions where the wait staff seldom came by our table, though most of these restaurants weren't Disney-owned at the time (ie Wolfgang's:ack:) and deserved minimal at best. I don't carry cash, and if we can't charge it to our room, then we have a problem. I don't want to sit and think about the tip when I'm finishing dinner either.

I don't know next time. I do like having the trip pretty much all inclusive, but this time, I'm not quite sure.

Ya know, when we eat at any of the character meals (CM, LTT, CP) there are no appetizers per say. If I were to do these type of meals, family style & buffets, I still lose the gratuity aspect, but it's a smaller bite off my budget

[starrmomof2]

Another problem with this, unless they change the way you end the bill, several times last year, once we said we were on the dining plan, we didn't get receipt showing the total cost of what we ate; it was a zero receipt with a place to sign. If they do that again, I won't know on what to base the tip. And, like others, if they do this, I hope they provide charging on the room key to clear the tip. I don't want to carry that much cash in the parks for the tip amount needed for TS meals. Saying all that, though, we would probably still buy the plan and enjoy the time we spend doing a TS each day.

[DizneyRox]

... One night my husband & I dropped around $250 for dinner at Narcoossees! The $70 per person would be a welcomed change.
Yes and no.. I see where you're going, and yeah Narcoossees is good way to get value out of the plan, but don't forget.

A. You're not going to eat Narcoossees for every meal during your stay.
B. It's eating up two of your meals per day to eat there.
C. You're paying tip based on the $250 dollar bill, NOT the $70 for the DDP.

Using your math, you're at $90 so far ($70 DDP per day plus the $20 tip on your 1/2) and that doesn't take into account other meals you may have or need that day.

I still don't see any value in the deluxe DDP tier. Unless you're going to be going from restaurant to restaurant all day every day. There will either be lost credits, gained inches, extra OOP, or a combination of the three (most likely).

[luvdiznee]

When I first read about this "rumor" I started thinking how we would have to pay a tip based on food that we hardly ate. Such as the app and desert. And even sometimes the entree, because it was a lot of food for us. Normally when the 3 of us go out to eat, we get maybe one app for all of us and MAYBE a desert for 2 of us and certainly not both app and desert in the same meal. But I would rather pay a tip based on that. Based on what we actually are eating and eating most of it. Not when I order a creme brulee or wings for app and after one bite have had enough. I guess my point is, that if I have to pay at tip aside from the plan it is not worth it. Even if they take the app away and are charged a dollar less but still have to pay a tip I just don't see where it is worth it. On the other hand I have a feeling after this dining exp that I will no longer be intimidated by TS's. That I will still want to do them. Maybe not every night, but every other night. And we will just do it the way we usually do when we go out and be much happier paying a tip based on that. :mickey:

[angedeaile]

Wow…I feel so many emotions! I was looking forward to trying out the Disney dining plan for the first time! I will be SO disappointed if this all turns out to be true.

I don't mind the removal of the tip, since I am a pretty big tipper. 20% is our norm. Although, I am a bit confused at what you would figure the 20 percent from...would it be what your meal would normally cost or what you are paying by being on the DDP?

I think the biggest disappointment is the removal of the appetizer. That was the seller for me. I love appetizers and desserts. Like a previous poster stated, I chose all my January ADRs based on appetizers, entrée and a dessert.

Now, the DDP isn’t worth it to me and neither are all five of my ADRs. I already figured out which three I might be canceling if this is rumor is confirmed.

As for convenience, in my OP, putting my credit card onto my room key and charging it that way instead of using the ddp is just as convenient.

I really think they are loosing sight of what sells this plan to their guests…the value and ease.

And as for the deluxe dining plan, that is way too much food! Are they trying to slow us down? You would be able to pick out who is on that plan by the folks that are looking abit :sick: or those that are waddling down main street!

Yeah. It is decided. If these rumors are true, we aren't adding on the ddp plan to our reservations.

[DizneyRox]

... Although, I am a bit confused at what you would figure the 20 percent from...would it be what your meal would normally cost or what you are paying by being on the DDP? There goes any convenience for me.

Normal meal cost. If the tip was based on the DDP cost, then it would be easy to just add into the plan.

[BritCody]

As with everything change is never good. I have crunched the numbers everyway possible and I will still get the plan. My example is for a family of 4 considering all in the party is over 9 years old and considered an adult on the WDW DDP.
Now for a 7 night stay before the plan was $38.99 a person with 7% sales tax to take it to $41.72 a person a day and a grand total of $1,168.14 for 4 people for 7 seven nights.
Now with the plan being $37.99 a person with 7% sales tax to take it to $40.65 a person a day and a grand total of $1,138.18. A difference of $29.96 cheaper, but now I still have to pay tip.
Let's assume for the 7 nights you use the following ADR list. They are all buffets as it makes the example easier and 7% sales tax is included.
Hollywood and Vine $102.68 for 4
Liberty Tree Tavern $119.80 for 4
Crystal Palace $119.80 for 4
Garden Grill $119.80 for 4
Chef Mickey's $119.80 for 4
1900 Park Fare $124.08 for 4
O'hana $111.24 for 4
The dinners here would total $817.18 for the seven nights. $817.18 times by 18% for tip would be $147.09. So now you are paying $147.09 in tip more but after you deduct the $29.96 for the difference in the cost from $38.99 to $37.99 the difference is $117.13 more you would pay in 2008 verse 2007.
Last year I saved around $400 on the meal plan next year the savings just won't be as much. I'm not happy about the changes, especially the convenience of not having to carry as much $$ on me, but you have a choice either to get the plan or not. If you get the plan in 2008 it seems better to go the buffet route over entre, desert, and drink. Especially without the appetizer you are going to get more for your $$$ at the dinner buffets.

[TheDuckRocks]

IF this rumor is true (remember the website we are going by here has stated that the new 2008 room pricing would be released on June 23 and we haven't seen it yet)!!!
As a retired bookkeeper I spent most of yesterday running the numbers every which way I could think of and for our Jan. 2008 trip the DDP will still be the most cost effective way for us to go.
This year we will be a party of 6 adults on the DDP (me, DH, DD, DSIL, DGS 12 and DGD 10). Because we are bringing the kids with us 5 out of our 8 TS meals will be at buffets or family style venues. The appetizer being gone from the program will only have us paying out of pocket for salads before one meal and an appetizer for the table once. Having just spent the past year losing 67 pounds I know we really don't need the extra calories I would have been eating if I was getting both an appetizer and dessert with every meal.
Am I happy with the changes that are rumored? No! Will it keep us from going to WDW? Are you nuts!:D

[AvonleaCF]

I'm not a fan of the plan at all. I liked it better when no plan existed and people ate where they wanted when they wanted and ADRs were easier to get.

I'm using the plan on my next trip but ONLY because it was free. If I had to pay I wouldn't have gotten it. I did some number crunching on what I like to eat and I prefer grabbing something at CS and getting on with the parks. Maybe I'd schedule 2 or 3 sit downs during my trip, but that's it. And I would never order an app & dessert with my meals every day, esp. not at CS. And I'd do about 1 snack a day.

So, to summarize, the new changes don't bother me. If I go Sept. 2008 and it's free again I'll take it, but otherwise I'm happy to eat CS and 1 or 2 TS and just pay out of pocket.

[4littleboys]

We are making our first family WDW trip in January and I have been reading here like crazy. I was so excited about the dining plan and I have made all our ADR's. The new rumored plan does not sounf like something my husband and I would choose. We go to DL several times a year and the DDP (now and the rumored one) is not how we dine. We usually buy 2 or 3 dishes and all share. However, we have 4 DS's (8,8,6,3) who don't each much but don't usually want to share and who LOVE character dining. So I am torn, we could save money by not using the plan but my kids will have a more magical vacation if we do get it. If I had been there before I would have a better idea of how our family would eat there but I really have nothing to go off of other than the fact that the DDP is a wonderful deal for the kids. Any thoughts?

[Marker]

Not when I order a creme brulee or wings for app and after one bite have had enough

If you're not going to eat the appetizer, or the dessert, then why order it? The DDP does not FORCE you to order appetizers and desserts.

If you feel you have to order them in order to get your money's worth, then maybe the DDP is not for you. The DDP is an option. It is what it is, if that works our for you , GREAT! BUt if that doesn't work for you, you don't have to use it. And if they change how it works, then we'll all need to re-evaluate it and decide if it's right for us or not.

[luvdiznee]

[QUOTE=Marker;1375544]If you're not going to eat the appetizer, or the dessert, then why order it? The DDP does not FORCE you to order appetizers and desserts.

Because if this is what I've already paid for then, I would like to try to get my monies worth even if it is in sample form. And believe you me, after using the DP 2 times, I have always been rethinking whether or not it was for us. :mickey:

[magicofdisney]

I'm thinking most ppl on the DDP choose to dine in the evening at TS to get the biggest bang for their buck. If diners are now required to tip on their own, perhaps more breakfast and lunch ressies will be made because those meals are cheaper. Maybe this new plan will level the playing field and ADRs will be easier to come by?

[r4kids]

If the plan changes in "08 we will not get the plan. We usually go on a budget. If tip was not included it is cheaper for us to eat more CS meals and we are not big tippers either. It basically comes down to priority and tipping large amounts is not one. I would rather spead the money on stuff for the kids. Our family of 6 usually has a $200 bill for our TS dinner meals. Just 10% is $20. I hate not tipping more but I just can;t afford it. The plan allows us the freedom to eat anywhere and the servers get the tip they usually deserve.

[anewvision]

The average person walking thur the turestiles
at WDW is 35 lbs. heavier than 30 years ago.
(thats including childern and infants). Has anyone figured out how many calories are
consumed by this plan in a day. Remenber most
of us adults need aprox. 2500.. When walking around at WDW you are not exercising. By the way World Showcase lake is about 1.25 miles
walking distance. Not the 5 miles most out of
shape people thing..

[TheRustyScupper]

1) Yep, lots of changes.
2) What has really happened is a 25% price increase.
3) At some restaurants, this can be a 35% price increase.
4) This might have been overlooked.
5) Unfortunately, people will still buy DDP.
6) Now, even more people will lose money on the deal.

NOTE: Some people say DDP folks will now use more breakfasts and lunches for TS coupons in order to save the big tips they would shell out. This is pitiful, as they will not be able to even come close to making out on the DDP plan and will lose money over not buying DDP.

[LibertyTreeGal]

The average person walking thur the turestiles
at WDW is 35 lbs. heavier than 30 years ago.
(thats including childern and infants). Has anyone figured out how many calories are
consumed by this plan in a day. Remenber most
of us adults need aprox. 2500.. When walking around at WDW you are not exercising. By the way World Showcase lake is about 1.25 miles
walking distance. Not the 5 miles most out of
shape people thing..

Yeah, but I did the eliptical trainer this morning and then did a zillion crunches and squats so part of my vacation plan is that I've earned one week worth of overindulgence (as long as it isn't salty, I do have HBP).

[princessjojo]

:humph: :down: :nope:
Right now, I don't like anything about it, but what do you do other than not purchase it.

[snifflesmcg]

I hadn't heard that this was a definate plan. I heard they were still talking about it but it wasn't set in stone.

I do like the idea of tip included (although I do reward good servers with extra so they get their 20% or more). You are already paying almost $40 for the DDP. This meal is inflated because you are in a tourist trap and this means you must tip according to the meal price. In the real world you can eat at 3 sit down restaurants and pay less than the $40 (ever see $40-a-day on the Food Network?)

My BF and I run about a $50-80 tab for each meal. This means that, great we get a $2 discount but now we must tip $10-$16 and that's just the two of us. That's an extra $70-$112 just for tips. I can't imagine what a large family would do!

I've been to WDW 3 years in a row now. I think it'll be awhile until we go again. Even with a "deal" you are still paying alot. Next vacation is a cruise where you still have to tip but ALL of the food is included for free.

[sleepingbooty]

Can I ask where you all have found this info about the changes? I haven't seen any official reference to it, except in speculative threads.

[snifflesmcg]

Can I ask where you all have found this info about the changes? I haven't seen any official reference to it, except in speculative threads.

Yes, me too. I'd like to read the article.

[BelleBeauty]

The official release of the new 2008 rates, including the DDP rates and changes were made public this morning.

Magical Journeys posted the information on Intercot this morning. This information is official. You can find that thread with the official information here:

http://www.intercot.com/discussion/showthread.php?p=1378259#post1378259

[Marker]

Sorry in advance, but there's a rant coming. Not meaning to sound "Grumpy", I'm just always amazed.

Amazing how much stink rumors can cause.

Unless I'm mistaken, this is nothing but rumor at this point.

IF they do make a change, does ANYONE suppose it could be in response to customer requests and behavior? It always amazes me that so many seem to believe that eveyone in management at Disney are idiots, and that all of their decisions are intended only to aggravate customers.

Since I was first aware of the DDP, people complained about service declining because of the automatic tip, and the servers not properly receiving the gratuity they were entitled to. And since the servers were apparently ONLY motivated by tips, would never give good service as long as the DDP with it's included tip existed.

SO..... If this is ACTUALLY being addressed, and the tip will no longer be automatically included (which sounds exactly like what people were wanting)... the complaits are now that they are doing this TO US, and how terrible it will be.

If they change the plan, then I'll take a look at it and see if it still works to my needs, if not, I'll choose not to use it. Sounds simple to me.

Oh, and by the way..... I heard that napkins were no longer going to be included and that DDP customers will have to bring their own. :secret:

[BelleBeauty]

Sorry in advance, but there's a rant coming. Not meaning to sound "Grumpy", I'm just always amazed.

Amazing how much stink rumors can cause.

Unless I'm mistaken, this is nothing but rumor at this point.

IF they do make a change, does ANYONE suppose it could be in response to customer requests and behavior? It always amazes me that so many seem to believe that eveyone in management at Disney are idiots, and that all of their decisions are intended only to aggravate customers.

Since I was first aware of the DDP, people complained about service declining because of the automatic tip, and the servers not properly receiving the gratuity they were entitled to. And since the servers were apparently ONLY motivated by tips, would never give good service as long as the DDP with it's included tip existed.

SO..... If this is ACTUALLY being addressed, and the tip will no longer be automatically included (which sounds exactly like what people were wanting)... the complaits are now that they are doing this TO US, and how terrible it will be.

If they change the plan, then I'll take a look at it and see if it still works to my needs, if not, I'll choose not to use it. Sounds simple to me.

Oh, and by the way..... I heard that napkins were no longer going to be included and that DDP customers will have to bring their own. :secret:

Marker - MJ announced the changes this morning. I read the newly released documents for the DDP in 2008 myself. See my link above to the thread announcing 2008 rates and DDP changes. It came out this morning.

Nice rant though - I can agree on principle, but it still stinks. :blush:

[anewvision]

It's never been a deal ($$$). To anyone knowing just a little math. They force feed like you were cattle. If you are not on the plan the
servers make comments like, how much food is wasted. most of you would'nt order all the food they serve you. In jan. 07 at san angels
the server was pointing out all the waste of
the tables on the plan, its bad.

[courtney2006]

Sorry in advance, but there's a rant coming. Not meaning to sound "Grumpy", I'm just always amazed.

Amazing how much stink rumors can cause.

Unless I'm mistaken, this is nothing but rumor at this point.

This is no longer a rumor. It was made official this morning. I think people are getting upset not only that tip is not included but also the fact that appetizers are no longer included in the basic Dining Plan.

[Jen C.]

It's never been a deal ($$$). To anyone knowing just a little math. They force feed like you were cattle. If you are not on the plan the
servers make comments like, how much food is wasted. most of you would'nt order all the food they serve you. In jan. 07 at san angels
the server was pointing out all the waste of
the tables on the plan, its bad.

I disagree with you here. I do the math and it works for my family. We have a child under three who is able to share with us. We choose TS restaurants, and have a tendency towards the "finer things" on the menu. I never feel like cattle, even if I don't eat all of the food. We take a lot back to our resort, but a lot we do not eat that's true. Waste is not good, I agree~but waste is EVERYWHERE. We've never felt like we need to eat everything just because we paid for the DDP. I leave Michigan a size 6 and return a size 6, even while participating in the DDP.

I think what works for some might not work for others. But "the math" in this case would vary from person to person, would it not?:blush:
I do feel sad for those who will no longer consider this an option for them, but would have otherwise. I hate when things like that happen. :( I was just saying that it still works for us...tip or no tip, appy or no appy.

[Marker]

It's never been a deal ($$$). To anyone knowing just a little math.

Hmmm. Well isn't that special.

[Jen C.]

If you're not going to eat the appetizer, or the dessert, then why order it? The DDP does not FORCE you to order appetizers and desserts.

If you feel you have to order them in order to get your money's worth, then maybe the DDP is not for you. The DDP is an option. It is what it is, if that works our for you , GREAT! BUt if that doesn't work for you, you don't have to use it. And if they change how it works, then we'll all need to re-evaluate it and decide if it's right for us or not.


I TOTALLY agree with you Marker. I have no idea why anyone would feel like in order to participate in the DDP they have to clean their plates and eat everything. I also really take offense for the statement regarding calories on the plan and obesity in America. I am 5'5", and weigh 129 lbs. I run 3or 4 miles a day, and do Pilates every day. I also use the DDP. THE HORROR! It works for me. To some, a waste, to me concenience. It doesn't mean I'm overweight, or even overfed. It means the plan works for me. Period.

[Figment!]

Nanci has posted all the new package and Dining Plan information in 2008 room rates and packages now available. (http://www.intercot.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=111976)

To keep discussion in one place, let's continue all further discussion there.

Thanks.