Bad News: Change in room rates for 2008

[mulderxcoltrane]

Hello all - I was reading a WDW info site (not sure if I can post the link here) that is reporting a change to the reservation policy for all reservations for 2008.
Currently, you can book a long stay (say 8 nights) and all nights are the price of the night you checked in. Apparently - this changes in 2008. Your rate is calcuated for each individual night and this site says they WDW may designate some weekends here & there as premium as well.
This info is not yet official, yet this very reliable site says it is coming.

[PirateLover]

Wow. I doubt many people would like that change. I hope that is not true. :(

[DizneyRox]

DVC works this way, I can't imagine why they don't do it for regular reservations.

I have many times paid cash for weekends on DVC as it was "cheaper" to pay cash than it was to use points.

[Seasonscraps]

I was always surprised DW didn't do this already as it seems quite a few hotels do have weekday & weekend rates.

[Carol]

This news was leaked last week.

As soon as the information is no longer 'unofficial' the details will be posted here! Magical Journeys always waits until they can release all information provided, to them by Disney, instead of teasers.


DVC works this way, I can't imagine why they don't do it for regular reservations.Exactly. Disneyland resorts also work this way. You always pay more for weekend stays and Annual Passholder rates don't apply there on those days either.

[Tink1]

We have gotten no official word on this, nor on the actual rates for 2008. I had heard they were contemplating this move the last time I was down at WDW. Since this is the norm in the hotel industry, I am not surprised. Universal, Marriott, etc have done it for years.

I would guess that Disney would like to even out the occupancy levels across the week. Sometimes, clients are turned away from a week long stay at a resort solely because the Fri and/or Sat night is not available. Will this fix that problem? Disney hopes so.

For the family going for their yearly vacation, it should have no more overall effect than the typical yearly room increase. It may actually make availability a little easier on the weekends. For those that do weekend trips, you are basically paying for convenience

The days of looking at vacation cost solely by room cost only ended with the introduction of Magic Your Way. You now need to look at the entire cost (room/tickets/food) to calculate your best value options.

Nanci

[Ian]

One more reason I'm glad I bought into DVC!!

This raises an interesting question, though. Does this new policy also apply to special deals?

Like supposed they offer free dining from August 15th through September 30th and I arrive on September 30th. Will I only be able to get the free dining for the first day of my stay? That seems odd ...

[Carol]

through September 30thThose would be the key words. I don't think it's odd at all.

Folk would need to plan their vacations accordingly. It always seemed to good to be true when 'deals' extended beyond the through date. If the current policy changes the dates would be firm.

[Ian]

I'd have to agree with you there, Carol. It always seemed too good to be true to me, as well.

I'm actually more surprised their computer system can handle ressies this. I've always heard it was very inflexible. They must have gotten some type of upgrade.

[Tink1]

I'm actually more surprised their computer system can handle ressies this. I've always heard it was very inflexible. They must have gotten some type of upgrade.

They installed a whole new system last October. Little by little they are getting the capability programs working:

email confirmations,
no change in res number for resort switch,
deposit amounts must match deposit due post resort change,
now date based pricing.

Nanc

[magicofdisney]

I seem to recall a couple of years ago, many weekends were blocked out from AP or FL resident discounts. When a promo was advertised, it would state something along the lines of "...most night, Sunday through Thursday..." This year, when we got passes again, I didn't see that going on. Now it seems it may become a permanent thing.

[January-2007]

They installed a whole new system last October.

I was there when they were installing this new system, it was such a pain! Our room keys wouldn't work and they couldn't get us new ones, so many troubles. And now to find out it's all so they can charge us more? Yuck. I'll bet this will make the beginning of December so much more crowded because of all the people who usually check in on the last day of value season.

[Catzle]

I read that it probably wouldn't effect a week long vacation, but this does concern me. No promotions or charging more for weekends. We live in NY and fly in once a year from a Sat to a Sat. and I will be dissappointed if they start charging us more for the weekend days, Disney is expensive already without paying a ton more just because you choose to come for a week. If this is the case people might start cutting there vacations down to Monday-Friday to avoid paying the weekend rates? I sure hope this will not be the case.

[frakers]

I am bothered by this announcement. I'm not bothered for my family as we are fortunate to pay a 50% off interline rate since my DH works in the travel industry but I am annoyed by this in general. I can see regular, everyday hotels charging weekend premium rates since they are ONLY in the room renting business and they can even out their revenue this way. However, with Disney, if they have you ON property they are getting money out of you in innumerable others ways. I think charging higher rates for weekends is just rather ridiculous and unnecessary.

[BronxTigger]

As if the resort room pricing matrix isn't complicated enough! I can't wait to see the new matrix, with new weekend prices in addition to preferred, views, and level pricing! Yikes!

[Tink1]

No promotions .

We do not know this yet.

At this point, everything is conjecture.

Nanc

[SallyP]

We live 2 hours southwest of WDW. We frequently, at least every 2 months, drive up on Friday afternoon and return Sunday evening. We try to stay at a Disney Deluxe resort if they are offering a discount for FL residents or passholders. If Disney's prices aren't the best we stay at the Swan or Dolphin. If this new weekend pricing plan goes through it looks like will be spending all of our stays with Starwood. Win some, you lose some. Disney will lose us. I hope it benefits some guests and not just corporate pockets.

[ILive4Disney]

SallyP...I am in a similar situation as you and completely agree....I can only afford to go as often as I do because of the AP/FL resident rates offered. I have kids in school and am a teacher myself so this will definitely put a damper on my trips...and to be quite honest...I don't know that I will renew my AP either...it seems like it might not be worth it. :(

[mulderxcoltrane]

Just to remind everyone - as of now this is "unofficial" news I found on a WDW info site. Maybe it is all rumor.

[DizneyRox]

Just to remind everyone - as of now this is "unofficial" news I found on a WDW info site. Maybe it is all rumor.
There's always a little truth behind every rumor, except maybe that they are building a new park in [insert your favorite town here]. That they already do this in some instances is a pretty good sign that it's workable.

And it's a nice way to disguise a price increase as well. Just like they did with Magic Their Way tickets.

Honestly, the current setup allows all sorts of ways to tweak the system, by extending value season, extending "free" offers, etc. If nothing else, they should shore up those loopholes.

[LudwigVonDrake]

Most hotels do reservations this way.

[playdead88]

i read the same thing on im sure the same website. they mentioned the date of june 23 and what makes me think that this is true is i have been talking to magical journeys about my trip for next year and the agent emailed me and said that she should have some rates coming on june 23rd. who knows maybe if you stay durning the week and avoid weekends you can save some $$ :mickey:

[Carol]

However, with Disney, if they have you ON property they are getting money out of you in innumerable others ways. I think charging higher rates for weekends is just rather ridiculous and unnecessary.As stated above; this is not new to "Disney". Disneyland and DVC already work this way.

[little disney lovers]

Ok, I get why they might put the weekend rates up, but does that mean they might drop the weekday rates slightly. So, If in the current set-up a room is $100 a night / $700 a week, It would be fair to change the rates to $90 on weekdays and $125 on weekends, equalling $700 for the week. That way people who do stay longer are not at a disadvantage. Or maybe if you stay an entire week or more you could get a weekly rate?
WDW is a pretty expensive vacation as it stands, I just hope this will not make it unreachable for some families, It would be a pity for people to miss out on Walt's dream!

[lockedoutlogic]

I'd have to agree with you there, Carol. It always seemed too good to be true to me, as well.

I'm actually more surprised their computer system can handle ressies this. I've always heard it was very inflexible. They must have gotten some type of upgrade.


The reason the program is inflexible is because it was originally designed for las vegas in 1986....it is still DOS based....

They have been trying to convert to a windows based, slightly more modern program, for at least ten years....with a veritable minefield of obstacles in their path.

The problem is: how do you convert such a huge and important piece of software literally overnight.....it's not as though they can take the system down for three months to convert, test, and work out the kinks....

Let alone training the employees....yikes!

[lockedoutlogic]

Ok, I get why they might put the weekend rates up, but does that mean they might drop the weekday rates slightly. So, If in the current set-up a room is $100 a night / $700 a week, It would be fair to change the rates to $90 on weekdays and $125 on weekends, equalling $700 for the week. That way people who do stay longer are not at a disadvantage. Or maybe if you stay an entire week or more you could get a weekly rate?
WDW is a pretty expensive vacation as it stands, I just hope this will not make it unreachable for some families, It would be a pity for people to miss out on Walt's dream!

That would be a nice concept......
But I highly doubt it. In general, there are no price decreases at WDW...only increases.
the exceptions are only when specific venues struggle (wide world of sports, pleasure island, cirque du soleil) and general economic slumps that hurt the business significantly...

The only way they would reduce any room rates is if there was a significant drop in overall business...which is unlikely.

Disney's business analysts have definitely predicted a decline in business...as for several months WDW commercials in the US have gone with the "we can afford to go" theme....
....the slump just hasn't taken hold....yet.

Not to toot the horn....but with the shift in pricing...it only highlights the benefits of DVC....locked in values and upfront costs...to a certian extent

[BrerSchultzy]

First of all, it is just a rumor. Is it probable...I'd say so...I've never stayed at a non-Disney hotel that didn't do this. Is it "Disney"...I don't think so...but WDW Resorts haven't been "Disney" for a while now.
Here's what we DON'T know yet:
1) How much the rates will increase.
2) If Disney plans in enticing Sun - Thurs stays with package discounts
3) If this is even true, or if this is a "policy" that they bend as soon as somebody complains.

What we DO know is that Disney is clearly tired of being in the hotel business. And this just makes the idea of outsourcing the resorts all the easier.

P.S. Thanks Dad, for being a Vet...so we can stay at Shades of Green when we go!

[frakers]

As stated above; this is not new to "Disney". Disneyland and DVC already work this way.

The problem is that the overwhelming majority of the Disney reservations are for WDW and specifically regular room, not DVC, stays. As I previously posted, any possible change won't affect my family since we get interline rates but there are so many people who may now possibly find that this is yet one more thing WDW has done to make a trip for them out-of-reach or no longer do-able. The likelihood of Disney lowering weekday rates to even out a week-long stay is not likely but it would help. I just wouldn't hold my breath for it. There are already a few people in this post that have said that they will be pushed out of Disney trips if this materializes and I just think that is unfortunate.

[mttafire]

Most hotels do reservations this way.
Yep, Im suprised it took Disney this long to do the same. Sure it could add some extra cost to a vacation but thats just the way it is. All good things cost $$, If folks just pay attention to rates and "when to go" it might not add any additional cost to your vacation.:thumbsup:

[Donald Duck]

Most hotels do reservations this way.

But DisneyWorld isn't like any other vacation spot. Most people who stay at Disney stay for 7 or more nights.

With most other vacation spots (Hershey Park, Dutch Wonderland, ...) there isn't a need to saty there more than a couple of days so I can see why the weekend would be more desirable.

Also, most other hotels have a lot of business travelers staying only a night or two.

I think it's just another way for Disney to make more money. Disney has always been an expensive vacation but it's getting to be that middle class families can't afford it anymore.

[Cinderelley]

We live 2 hours southwest of WDW. We frequently, at least every 2 months, drive up on Friday afternoon and return Sunday evening. We try to stay at a Disney Deluxe resort if they are offering a discount for FL residents or passholders. If Disney's prices aren't the best we stay at the Swan or Dolphin. If this new weekend pricing plan goes through it looks like will be spending all of our stays with Starwood. Win some, you lose some. Disney will lose us. I hope it benefits some guests and not just corporate pockets.

Hi SallyP!:hi:
I love Starwood. With our timeshares through them I can either stay at the Swan/Dolphin or get a timeshare right around the corner from Disney. If we don't stay on property, we'll probably go with the timeshare. We've stayed at Cypress Pointe before, and everyone LOVED it. My sister and brother-in-law bought a timeshare because they enjoyed the accommodations there so much.

I guess I could always stay onsite Mon.-Fri. and then switch to the Swan or Dolphin for free on the weekends.

[lockedoutlogic]

But DisneyWorld isn't like any other vacation spot. Most people who stay at Disney stay for 7 or more nights.

With most other vacation spots (Hershey Park, Dutch Wonderland, ...) there isn't a need to saty there more than a couple of days so I can see why the weekend would be more desirable.

Also, most other hotels have a lot of business travelers staying only a night or two.

I think it's just another way for Disney to make more money. Disney has always been an expensive vacation but it's getting to be that middle class families can't afford it anymore.

I see your point...but I would like to bring a couple of other things to light:

We here on the East Coast, and by default the majority of the population density in this country ....view WDW as unique because we take weeklong trips to a location that is only a 2 hour flight away.
That is unusual...but it is also the product of some east coast bias.
If you go to Hawaii, California, Europe, or the Caribbean...most people go for a minimum of a week. It probably tends to seem odd to you because it's right on your front doorstep.
But Disneyworld, and Florida as a whole...is an international vacation destination....overseas travelers, and even those from the Western US...probably don't think it's odd to go to WDW for a week and don't compare it to local, regional destinations like those that you have mentioned.

Disney doesn't have many business travelers ...true. But that's just it...they have recreational demand for their rooms 365 days a year....there are really no other spots in the country where that's true not named "hawaii".
That increase in demand would drive prices up...simple economics.

As far as the middle class...I'm not so sure that it exists anymore....the gap between the haves and have nots...have...gotten larger and changed in dymanics starting with the carter/reagan days....so while WDW features 4 "classes" of resorts to choose from....really there are only two classes when it comes to vacationing at WDW...those that can afford it...and those that can't
sadly....

[lyle21]

I am bothered by this announcement. I'm not bothered for my family as we are fortunate to pay a 50% off interline rate since my DH works in the travel industry but I am annoyed by this in general. I can see regular, everyday hotels charging weekend premium rates since they are ONLY in the room renting business and they can even out their revenue this way. However, with Disney, if they have you ON property they are getting money out of you in innumerable others ways. I think charging higher rates for weekends is just rather ridiculous and unnecessary.


But DisneyWorld isn't like any other vacation spot. Most people who stay at Disney stay for 7 or more nights.

With most other vacation spots (Hershey Park, Dutch Wonderland, ...) there isn't a need to saty there more than a couple of days so I can see why the weekend would be more desirable.

Also, most other hotels have a lot of business travelers staying only a night or two.

I think it's just another way for Disney to make more money. Disney has always been an expensive vacation but it's getting to be that middle class families can't afford it anymore.


good points.

[mttafire]

But DisneyWorld isn't like any other vacation spot. Most people who stay at Disney stay for 7 or more nights.

With most other vacation spots (Hershey Park, Dutch Wonderland, ...) there isn't a need to saty there more than a couple of days so I can see why the weekend would be more desirable.

Also, most other hotels have a lot of business travelers staying only a night or two.

I think it's just another way for Disney to make more money. Disney has always been an expensive vacation but it's getting to be that middle class families can't afford it anymore.
I disagree with the "middle class" comment 100%. A family of 4 can stay at Disney for less than 1600.00 at a Value resort. (tickets included)That IS most certainly affordable for a middle class family. The whole "affordability" thing is way overblown. Saving for a Disney vacation every other year or so does NOT take that much effort. We are IMHO solidly in the middle class i make around 50k a year and my wife makes 25k. We can easily afford a Disney vacation every 2-3 years. We have 1 child with another on the way. Saving just 30.00 per month =1080.00 in 3 years. Thats a long way towards a great Disney vacation. I completely understand the expense of a Disney vacation but to say that middle class families wont be able to afford it anymore is just not accurate. All this is just my opinion, Im not at all trying to argue, I just know that nice things cost alot of money...Thats why you gotta save!!:thumbsup:

[Donald Duck]

I disagree with the "middle class" comment 100%. A family of 4 can stay at Disney for less than 1600.00 at a Value resort. (tickets included)That IS most certainly affordable for a middle class family. The whole "affordability" thing is way overblown. Saving for a Disney vacation every other year or so does NOT take that much effort. We are IMHO solidly in the middle class i make around 50k a year and my wife makes 25k. We can easily afford a Disney vacation every 2-3 years. We have 1 child with another on the way. Saving just 30.00 per month =1080.00 in 3 years. Thats a long way towards a great Disney vacation. I completely understand the expense of a Disney vacation but to say that middle class families wont be able to afford it anymore is just not accurate. All this is just my opinion, Im not at all trying to argue, I just know that nice things cost alot of money...Thats why you gotta save!!:thumbsup:

A middle class family should be able to afford to go on vacation more than once every 3 years.

$1,600 doesn't include transportation which will probably be around $1,000 for 4 and food, another $1,000. So, now your talking about $3,600 minimum. And that's staying at a value resort during the value season.

By your example of saving $30 per month, it would take 120 months (or 10 years) to save $3,600.

[lockedoutlogic]

Woah...we should try not to have this devolve into a class war or a monetary battle...as countless other threads have before.....

But my view on the affordability is as follows:

70's: from 71 to the gas crisis years, WDW and its resorts were affordable...a la disneyland. The exclusive characteristics of that era were that many people still traveled only by car, and to simply get to florida is a long way on the road for most.

Late 70-early 90s: Not only did the prices increase greatly, but inflation and government policies reduced the disposable income for many not in the "upper" class of the day. This was the demise of the american manufacturing base and with it...the traditional 20th century american middle class

90's-00: "new" money and service based economy blossoms and WDW becomes a "fairly" economical choice. Salary increases and investment dividends allow many to travel to WDW, and allows a high number of repeat visits...

00-present: while the economy is still firing, global concerns (the largest being oil prices...not Al Queda) and other factors (rising health care being the easiest) decrease the comparitive value of disney vacations. Salary increases have also leveled off in that period...allowing inflation to catch up to the levels of the booming 90's
Disney, starting in about 99 and through the end of Eisner's reign in 05..also pursued an aggressive policy of increasing the prices of entertainment, parks, and especially resorts.
Having worked at WDW in that period...it was almost like "we've boomed and built you alot of toys...now we want the public to pay back this good will". Expansion of entertainment hit a dead stop and only higher priced hotel rooms were added for over 5 years. WDW errors by completely overshooting it's resort needs at the time and rests it's attraction laurels on two completley incomplete parks: AK and MGM...the cost of new attractions also spiral out of control: Test Trak=$300 mil :confused:

Now where do we go from here? I have no clue. But if you a very frequent WDW customer...you probably noticed that there was a good "value" kind of feel in the late 90's...and that has turned to an "expensive" kinda feel in the last 3 or 4 years.

The fact that WDW is running its "affordable" TV spots and internet adds is proof that either they expect a downturn (probably), or they are using it as cover for continued price increases (again....probably)

[mttafire]

A middle class family should be able to afford to go on vacation more than once every 3 years.

$1,600 doesn't include transportation which will probably be around $1,000 for 4 and food, another $1,000. So, now your talking about $3,600 minimum. And that's staying at a value resort during the value season.

By your example of saving $30 per month, it would take 120 months (or 10 years) to save $3,600.
I didnt say NO vacation,I said a Disney vacation every 3 years. Go somewhere else the other two "cheaper".The 30.00 per month example was just a STARTING point...I stated "towards" a Disney trip. Read text fully..then You'll understand.
I guess the whole point of my "point" is this..If one needs more money to enjoy things....work more. When gas prices went up i just made a decision to work few more hours O.T. everyweek or so. If there is a WILL there is ALWAYS a way.

[Donald Duck]

I didnt say NO vacation,I said a Disney vacation every 3 years. Go somewhere else the other two "cheaper".The 30.00 per month example was just a STARTING point...I stated "towards" a Disney trip. Read text fully..then You'll understand.

No need to shout. I did read it fully. I disagree with you. The bare minimum vacation for a family of 4 at Disney is $3,600. That's a lot of money for one vacation. Disney is very expensive. Most families spend more like $5,000 or $6,000 per visit.

Even if you saved $60 a month it would take 5 years to save for $3,6000.

A middle class family should be able to afford to go to Disney once every two years. It shouldn't take them 5 years to save up for.

My opinion is Disney is a very expensive. It wasn't always very expensive. They have been raising hotel and ticket prices every year now for a long time.

This latest rate change is further proof.

[Tink1]

I am sure that Disney researches out the whazoo what the market will bear with resort pricing. (be sure to add the "FREE" Magical express into the equation - even if you dont use it-you pay for it)

In 1984 I honeymooned at the Polynesian. Rack rate on the room was $115 a night. I was earning about $8 an hour as a Med Tech (full time) .

20 years later in 2004 the rack rate was $299. I was earning about $20 as a Med Tech (Part -time).

In 1984 I would have to work 14.375 hours to pay for one night stay. In 2004 I would have to work 14.95 hours to pay for a night stay.

Pretty interesting how similar it stayed in reality.

Nanc

[mttafire]

I am sure that Disney researches out the whazoo what the market will bear with resort pricing. (be sure to add the "FREE" Magical express into the equation - even if you dont use it-you pay for it)

In 1984 I honeymooned at the Polynesian. Rack rate on the room was $115 a night. I was earning about $8 an hour as a Med Tech (full time) .

20 years later in 2004 the rack rate was $299. I was earning about $20 as a Med Tech (Part -time).

In 1984 I would have to work 14.375 hours to pay for one night stay. In 2004 I would have to work 14.95 hours to pay for a night stay.

Pretty interesting how similar it stayed in reality.

Nanc
Perfectly stated...Sometimes my vice is im not able to put my thoughts down in writing as i would like to. Ive also found that compared to past income..Things at Disney do = out.:mickey:

[Crow]

ive always stayed over weekends as part of my trip. i like starting midweek for better air. my next trip will start on a Friday though.
the weekend more pricing will hurt.

[johnO]

WDW is outrageously priced.

But we still pay the outrageous prices because it's "Disney World".

Those of us who love and appreciate WDW and make low wages, seem to find a way.

[TiggerRPh]

Wow. I doubt many people would like that change. I hope that is not true. :(

Well...almost every hotel in the world works this way. It's actually more fair to all and more realistic.

[SallyP]

It's actually more fair to all and more realistic.

I would define 'fair' as Disney charging the same price for resort services no matter when one stays at a resort. For those of us inclined to take long-weekend trips this (possible but probable) weekend premium pricing is not 'fair'.

[rookie]

I have to disagree with most of the posts. Charging more for weekends is not "unfair" - it is unfortunate for those that choose to stay over weekends. If Disney charges $50 more for a weekend trip, you are adding 100-200 dollars to a week-long trip, so you reduce your weeklong trip by a day if you can't afford the increase. I think it will have more of an impact on those that pick the last day of "value" season to begin a weekend long trip. I also doubt that any pricing change like this will force people to stop going to Disney. Maybe it will shorten vacations, cause people to stay offsite or some other alteration to their historical visits but prices to go up every year and people still keep going.

[SallyP]

I have to disagree with most of the posts. Charging more for weekends is not "unfair" - it is unfortunate for those that choose to stay over weekends. ... I also doubt that any pricing change like this will force people to stop going to Disney. Maybe it will shorten vacations, cause people to stay offsite or some other alteration to their historical visits but prices to go up every year and people still keep going.

Since we are FL residents, and there are quite a few of us that do the weekend thing, we feel it is unfair - not 'unfortunate'. I guess it comes down to semantics and perspective.
We won't stop going to Disney, we just won't stay at their resorts unless they offer weekend rates for FL residents - and then we'll sit back and listen to what others will say about unfortunate versus unfair.

[rookie]

my version of "unfair" is something that is discriminatory, not honest, not lawful or such. Since it is pretty much an industry norm then I view this more as unfortunate that the change in pricing would affect you more than some who doesn't go on weekends.

Now if you define "unfair" as charging different rates for different days of the week then I agree that is unfair. :thumbsup:

[SallyP]

my version of "unfair" is something that is discriminatory, not honest, not lawful or such. Since it is pretty much an industry norm then I view this more as unfortunate that the change in pricing would affect you more than some who doesn't go on weekends.

Now if you define "unfair" as charging different rates for different days of the week then I agree that is unfair. :thumbsup:

Thanks for the clarification rookie. Yes, I'm only talking about the week-end rate changes. I agree it might be a fair industry practice but on a personal level it stinks! :down: It's just one more 'guest' amenity that Disney is doing away with.

[Catzle]

If the prices really do change for weekend rates they will have to change their commercials because it will cost more. You figure most people go a Sat. to Sat. that don't live in Florida so that would be a full weekend of extra money to pay including their usual hike in prices.

[PirateLover]

Well...almost every hotel in the world works this way. It's actually more fair to all and more realistic.

Um, when did I say anything about it not being fair? You know I love those of you just expect everyone to accept this possible change in policy because "Everyone else does it." Ok, so as Cutler Beckett would say "It's just good business", and I can understand that, but the truth of the matter is WDW did NOT operate this way for regular guests in years past, so why am I not allowed to be disappointed that they are changing their policy to one that might affect my pocket more? I understand why it is being done but I'm not going to jump up and down and say "Huzzah Disney! Way to catch up with the rest of the hotel industry!" I'm allowed to not like the change.

[branvy]

Ughhh. We like to stay the weekend before we take our DCL cruise, so this could make a change in our regular vacation time. :( DH has always been iffy on the point of staying on site, this is not going to help my argument any.

Though honestly, I don't get the defense that this is okay b/c it's what most other hotel/vacation spots do things. Why do I go to Disney? Because they're NOT like every other vacation spot. It's not just about the park and the rides, it's about the customer service and the overall feeling you get of being cared about. As we all know, customer service, perks, and affordability for the average family has been decreasing over the years. At what point does Disney truly stop being exceptional? Sometimes it feels like the death by a million tiny cuts.

[chasgooses]

No need to shout. I did read it fully. I disagree with you. The bare minimum vacation for a family of 4 at Disney is $3,600. That's a lot of money for one vacation. Disney is very expensive. Most families spend more like $5,000 or $6,000 per visit.

Even if you saved $60 a month it would take 5 years to save for $3,6000.

A middle class family should be able to afford to go to Disney once every two years. It shouldn't take them 5 years to save up for.

My opinion is Disney is a very expensive. It wasn't always very expensive. They have been raising hotel and ticket prices every year now for a long time.

This latest rate change is further proof.

Last time I checked Disney was not a charity. While it is a sad fact that some people cannot afford a WDW trip as often as others, so long as they are filling the hotels, there is absolutely no reason why they should charge less for their rooms. A trip to Walt Disney World is not a right, it is a luxury. For Disney to treat it any other way and NOT raise their prices every year would be silly.

[Catzle]

I don't understand why it would be considered silly if they don't raise their prices every year. Yes they are out to make money but that doesn't mean they have to raise their prices every year to do that. Not everyone gets a raise every year or gets a better job and makes any extra money. So if Disney keeps raising their prices every year on tickets, room rates, weekend rates, food, etc. and the general public can't support those increases than they may lose money in the end if they can't sell out their rooms all the time. I don't know I guess we'll have to see exactly what happens but I for one personally hope the weekend prices don't go way up and I get priced out of coming.

[Aurora]

But if you a very frequent WDW customer...you probably noticed that there was a good "value" kind of feel in the late 90's...and that has turned to an "expensive" kinda feel in the last 3 or 4 years.


I believe that's because we had more disposable income in the 90s -- and the fact that we pay more (WAY more) now for health insurance, taxes and gasoline has a lot to do with our wallets' getting thinner.

Yes, Disney is a business (I don't think anyone implied it is a charity), but it's one that caters to middle-class families with children, and always has. This group was Disneyland's reason for being, and that has held true for WDW as well.

And it's the middle class that's being squeezed economically right now. So for some of us, it hurts that the squeezor is Disney.

[branvy]

Last time I checked Disney was not a charity. While it is a sad fact that some people cannot afford a WDW trip as often as others, so long as they are filling the hotels, there is absolutely no reason why they should charge less for their rooms. A trip to Walt Disney World is not a right, it is a luxury. For Disney to treat it any other way and NOT raise their prices every year would be silly.

You are absolutely right that Disney as a corporation has every right to consider demand when they do their pricing. Though I find it short sighted. Inflating your prices to take advantage of an economic boom and resulting demand may be rewarding in the short term. But if Disney through price hikes and removal of perks starts cultivating the idea that it's NOT affordable, and is willing to squeeze its loyal customers for every last dime (i.e. it no longer acts like a friend of the average family), what happens when an economic downturn occurs? They may find that the return customers they've always relied upon to pad the fall may have long left the building. I'm not saying that's happening or is going to happen, but it is a chance they're starting to play with. People are VERY loyal to the Disney brand b/c sentimentally they DON'T think of it as a brand but as an Idea. The more Disney acts like a corporation the less people can buy into the magic. And without the magic, they're just a big six flags.

But then, Disney is not alone. Most corporations are alarmingly short sighted.

Lastly, what can be hard for people is that Walt absolutely intended that the average family could enjoy his parks. Sometimes we have a hard time seeing Disney - the Walt vision - being changed by Disney - the corporate vision. My poor sister and her husband are junior high teachers and have two children under 10. There is no way they could afford Disney. I honestly feel that is the sort of thing that Walt would have hated to hear.

[mttafire]

Last time I checked Disney was not a charity. While it is a sad fact that some people cannot afford a WDW trip as often as others, so long as they are filling the hotels, there is absolutely no reason why they should charge less for their rooms. A trip to Walt Disney World is not a right, it is a luxury. For Disney to treat it any other way and NOT raise their prices every year would be silly.
that my friend is 100% correct. IMHO, The middle class "which i am" has plenty of disposable income...IF they MANAGE money wisely. We only have 1 cell phone, that saves us at least 40.00 per month. There is many examples of "things" these days we have"society" but we certainly dont NEED. Disney vacations are in NO way a right or an entitlement. It isnt supposed to be something EVERYone can afford. NOTHING nice in life is. My point from the start is..MOST people CAN afford a Disney vacation every 3 years or so. Some can afford to go MANY times a year. Some can only afford to go once every 5 years or so. Thats called capitalism and a free market society..We all arent the same economically. Im am perfectly happy going once every 2-3 years. We can afford that and EVERYtime we go Disney NEVER lets us down.:thumbsup: We love every minute of it!:mickey:

[rookie]

Lots of excitement over speculation and everyone is viewing this as most defintiely a negative.

What if an announcement comes that weekend rates are going up, weekday rates, park tickets, dining plan etc are all staying the same. Not that it is likely to turn out that way, but If so a family could manage their vacation such that no price increase occurs next year.

This glass :beer: is half-full for the time being.

[Donald Duck]

Last time I checked Disney was not a charity. While it is a sad fact that some people cannot afford a WDW trip as often as others, so long as they are filling the hotels, there is absolutely no reason why they should charge less for their rooms. A trip to Walt Disney World is not a right, it is a luxury. For Disney to treat it any other way and NOT raise their prices every year would be silly.

I didn't say Disney was a charity. I said it's a very expensive vacation.
Do you disagree ?

Why do they have to raise their hotel and ticket prices every year ?

If they do raise them every year as you suggest they do, then don't you think at some point it's going to become unaffordable to most families ?

[Donald Duck]

I believe that's because we had more disposable income in the 90s -- and the fact that we pay more (WAY more) now for health insurance, taxes and gasoline has a lot to do with our wallets' getting thinner.

Yes, Disney is a business (I don't think anyone implied it is a charity), but it's one that caters to middle-class families with children, and always has. This group was Disneyland's reason for being, and that has held true for WDW as well.

And it's the middle class that's being squeezed economically right now. So for some of us, it hurts that the squeezor is Disney.

Excellent points !

:mickey:

[Donald Duck]

My poor sister and her husband are junior high teachers and have two children under 10. There is no way they could afford Disney. I honestly feel that is the sort of thing that Walt would have hated to hear.

I think Walt would be ashamed of his company if he heard this.

[GoinGoofyPlanninThisTrip]

My poor sister and her husband are junior high teachers and have two children under 10. There is no way they could afford Disney.They should teach in our district. They could enjoy Grand Floridian stays at least twice a year. Example: Elementary school librarian = $100,000 for a nine month a year job. :ill:

Disney is expensive, always has been and always will be. You just need to find your family's "best deal". Once you're there, it is worth it.

[Catzle]

Wow! That is a lot of money to be a librarian, I am an assistant librarian and only make about a 1/3 of that. Our head director, the boss, the highest position you can achieve only makes $70,000!

[Cinderelley]

that my friend is 100% correct. IMHO, The middle class "which i am" has plenty of disposable income...IF they MANAGE money wisely. We only have 1 cell phone, that saves us at least 40.00 per month. There is many examples of "things" these days we have"society" but we certainly dont NEED. Disney vacations are in NO way a right or an entitlement. It isnt supposed to be something EVERYone can afford. NOTHING nice in life is. My point from the start is..MOST people CAN afford a Disney vacation every 3 years or so. Some can afford to go MANY times a year. Some can only afford to go once every 5 years or so. Thats called capitalism and a free market society..We all arent the same economically. Im am perfectly happy going once every 2-3 years. We can afford that and EVERYtime we go Disney NEVER lets us down.:thumbsup: We love every minute of it!:mickey:

IMHO, that's a very narrow view of the middle class. There are many people in the middle class who are trying to raise their children, care for their parents, live in areas of the country where the cost of living is higher, etc, etc, etc. I'm glad that it works for you, but for some people, the "plenty of disposable income...IF they MANAGE money wisely" method doesn't work. They do manage their money wisely, but that's to make it stretch as far as possible to cover their life's necessities. I see it all the time at the hospital.

[chasgooses]

I didn't say Disney was a charity. I said it's a very expensive vacation.
Do you disagree ?

Why do they have to raise their hotel and ticket prices every year ?

If they do raise them every year as you suggest they do, then don't you think at some point it's going to become unaffordable to most families ?

I don't disagree that Disney is a very expensive vacation, but I don't think that is necessarily a problem. Disney is under no obligation to make Walt Disney World affordable for everyone. From their perspective, as long as the resorts are full, they should charge as much as they can. Of course there is a point where they would charge too much and occupancy would fall, but they have armies of accountants and computer programs to make sure that they don't do that. As long as they think that people will still come, Disney will continue to raise prices.

Cynical as this may sound, Walt Disney World's main reason for exisitng is to make money. Yes it achieves that by bringing magic and happiness to many people all over the world, but that doesn't change the fact that it exists to make money for the Disney corporation.

[lockedoutlogic]

Alot of good thoughts....

A couple of things I noticed:
1. Disney is, has never been, and will never be...a "right" to the entire public. That is not because someone's trying to be malicious and overly greedy (though they are at times)...it is because WDW is a cash cow that is a significant prop for all the other Disney multimedia enterprises world wide. It's just that simple...they want two things out of WDW: operating capital and brand exposure. and it workds brilliantly. They are a publically traded company...if you have the time to look through an annual report...then you'll see what I mean.
That being said, the businessman that call the shots will never attack the prices at WDW by taking into account "what's fair for everyone". It just won't happen. The cold hard truth...the place was constructed with concrete, steel, fiberglass, wood, and good old fashion sweat.....pixie dust was unavailable due to back order.....

Second, there are two sides to the issue of "affordability"...Disney controls the first: pricing. but the general economy controls the second: cost of living.
If you paid 180 a night for wilderness lodge back in 99...it might have seemed like nothing.
But if you have to pay 215 a night in 2008..even though cost of living increases at work would have far eclipsed that measely little increase on the whole (9 years times 0.03% COL = 27%....as opposed to 180 divided by 215 = a 16.5% increase in hotel rates)...it might seem like a fortune.

Now I know...that math is far too simple to take at face value...but the point is that there are many things that affect how we view the cost of going to WDW....and alot of them have nothing to do with a $2 bump in tickets or a $10 bump in room nights.
Several things in the American enocomy right now are having people rethink how they spend their money: fuel prices (which drives up everthing that we buy except cars), out of pocket health care expenses, and the ridiculous spiraling of education costs....just to name a few....

So right now, the money isn't as free flowin' as it was during the "Disney Decade"....that could change at anytime....and in the future many of us could be laughing at this discussion...

of course.....don't count on rates not steadily increasing....they always have and always will

[Donald Duck]

Cynical as this may sound, Walt Disney World's main reason for exisitng is to make money. Yes it achieves that by bringing magic and happiness to many people all over the world, but that doesn't change the fact that it exists to make money for the Disney corporation.

There's a difference between making a profit and squeezing every last dime out of everyone. My impression of Disney nowadays is the latter.

[Donald Duck]

Here are the prices of a one-day ticket from 1980 to 2007. Disney has raised prices every year except 1984, 1988 and 2007 (although they did raise water park prices in 2007).

1980 - 8.00
1981 - 9.50
1982 - 15.00
1983 - 17.00
1984 - 17.00
1985 - 21.50
1986 - 26.00
1987 - 28.00
1988 - 28.00
1989 - 29.00
1990 - 31.00
1991 - 33.00
1992 - 34.00
1993- 35.00
1994 - 36.00
1995 - 37.00
1996 - 38.50
1997 - 39.75
1998 - 42.00
1999 - 44.00
2000 - 46.00
2001 - 48.00
2002 - 50.00
2003 - 52.00
2004 - 54.75
2005 - 59.75
2006 - 67.00
2007 - 67.00

[MNNHFLTX]

Unfortunately, there are not two, but three things in life that are certain--death, taxes and that Disney will increase their prices each year. (Meant tongue-in-cheek, but true nonetheless). As long as we all keep going, they will continue to do so.

[mttafire]

Unfortunately, there are not two, but three things in life that are certain--death, taxes and that Disney will increase their prices each year. (Meant tongue-in-cheek, but true nonetheless). As long as we all keep going, they will continue to do so.

Agreed....And we ALL WILL keep going!!:thumbsup:

[Pirate Granny]

Personally I like the idea of changing rates...we stayed at the Pop for New Years Eve and New Years Day...the rate changed $50 less for New Years Day...we had to actually check out and check back in to get the cheaper rate...there were many of us in the line...and you had to re-check in (not move luggage, you got the same room) before 10am...but $50 is $50... This was this year, so I don't know about changing the reservation system in October...we still had to rebook if we wanted a cheaper rate...believe me, people were asking what we were doing, and then mad when they found out that they could've had the room for the lower price had they booked two reservations...now, I will admit, I didn't use MJ so possibly they could've helped out...
:pirate:

[rnin02]

Maybe I'm being naive, but if we want Disney to add new attractions every year, keep the old ones looking and running great, hire people that will provide awesome customer service and train them...can't you expect that rates will go up? I don't like it at all, but if gas, food, living in general increases for us on a day to day basis, doesn't it also increase for coorporations, amusement parks, hotels, etc? Do you really expect them to just say, "oh the heck with our increased expenses, lets just keep our income the same!" Now if prices are going from say $90/night to $180/night for the same room at the same time of year...that's ridiculous. But modest increases (say $90/night to $95/night) seem normal and expected.

[little disney lovers]

I agree that it is fair for the prices to go up in line with petrol, etc... I don't like it, But it has to happen if we all want the parks quality to stay the same. The unfortunate thing is that all our compulsory amenities keep going up, but our wages don't go up the same percentage. Companies are putting prices up to allow for petrol, etc... but are not inreases their employees wages. Therefore we don't have as much disposable income.
Anyway, We're all getting worried and worked up about a rumour, a likely rumour, but a rumour all the same.
Intercot is going to explode on the 23rd, Is that when the price release is?!?

[Bruegge]

While I tend to be a realist and understand Disney WILL make money, and more money, and...so on...

I must admit I was under the impression that the 4 different price points (seasons) for hotels thru the year... value,regular, peak, holiday etc....

was in lieu of the "dreaded weekend price hike" we now (probably) face.

IT COULD BE WORSE... In my travels thru north GA... I traveled from Valdosta to Cincinnati several times in the early 2000"s.

I always stopped at a nice New holiday inn express... just north of dalton to break up my trip..

Normally it was 65-68 a nite... no biggie... One June day it was $118.00 ... because of a big softball tourney going on in the neighborhood......

Can you imagine Poly charging nearly 100% more a nite cause Tiger woods is playing golf at the palm/magnolia golf course the week you are there...(it happens every october kids...)

So.. while it does stink.... it is not as bad as I've seen..

Tough it out... and go hug a princess... you'll feel better

Scott

Oh and FYI.... those lite up themed spinny things (kid toys) we bought in epcot in 2002 for $13.00 ... bought one for $10.00 last month... go figure..

[magicofdisney]

Oh and FYI.... those lite up themed spinny things (kid toys) we bought in epcot in 2002 for $13.00 ... bought one for $10.00 last month... go figure..
I bought a pair of Mickey sneakers a couple of years ago at Epcot for $25. Now they're $24.


If one needs more money to enjoy things....work more. When gas prices went up i just made a decision to work few more hours O.T. everyweek or so. If there is a WILL there is ALWAYS a way.Well that's nice you have the luxury of that decision. My husband is salary and O.T. pay is pretty irrelevant.

[mttafire]

Well that's nice you have the luxury of that decision. My husband is salary and O.T. pay is pretty irrelevant.[/QUOTE]

I completely understand that...However, I have a very close friend who works for Honda of America (in Ohio) that is salary. His neighbor payed a lawn service 70.00 per month to have her lawn mowed. He now mows her lawn for 50 per month. That saved her 20.00 and makes him an additional 50 bucks a month tax free. For him that makes up the additonal money for gas. That was my point...If folks need extra money there is ALWAYS ways to make it..Salary or not.

[Dsnygirl]

Although I have to admit I don't like the idea of weekends being priced higher than weekdays, I have to also say I am glad that people will no longer be able to check-in on the last day of a promotion, and basically personally extend the promotion for the length of their stay. That has always been a pet peeve of mine, although I honestly wasn't aware that it happened @ WDW. (I've seen it at other hotels, but was under the impression that Disney didn't allow you to do that, as they have so many specials running all year long.) My personal belief is that if you want to use a special to get a lower price, you should only be able to use it on the days it's specified - and that goes for changes in rates for different times of year, too.
For someone to be able to use the early December pricing for the length of their stay, by checking-in on the last "value season" day and then getting as close as possible to Christmas w/o paying the premium that others pay who check-in a day later during "peak season" later just isn't right, IMHO.
But that's just my :twocents: ... which probably isn't worth much! :blush:
If this allows Disney to even things out a bit, than I guess I'll just have to accept a little higher price for Sat/Sun and just be happy I'm there... ;)