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IDreamofEeyore
11-30-2006, 07:04 PM
I know this comes up every now and then...people are always wondering when and if WDW will add a 5th Theme Park.

My DH's friend just returned from taking his family to WDW. He says he spoke to a cast member who couldn't give any details, but stated that WDW was building a 5th Theme Park to be announced in 2007 or 08.

Can any of our cast member friends confirm this?

Figment!
11-30-2006, 07:09 PM
99.99% No.

Robert Iger has made a number of statements in the past months that the next park Disney builds will be overseas.

Frontline Cast Members typically have no knowledge of future plans, especially on the "new park" level.

PirateLover
11-30-2006, 07:44 PM
Yes, sad to say but CMs do not have a great reputation for being reliable rumor sources. I personally would rather see improvement in the other parks before WDW considers adding a 5th gate.

Supercali
11-30-2006, 11:49 PM
I think that there might be some truth to this. But, I don't believe it will be open before about 2012. Bob Iger did mention at a "town hall" meeting with cast members about "possibly planning for a new park". Then, there is the infamous "memo" that a cast member "intercepted", where Bob supposedly outlined growth for the park division. He mentioned a DVC at the Animal Kingdom Lodge - before it was officially announced to the public. He also told of a third cruise ship, and the fifth park. He supposedly said that it will have a Disney Villains theme and have many thrill rides. - I read on another site where DIsney sometimes has cast members go online and post things, to see what the reaction of Web users will be. :mickey:

plutoboy
12-01-2006, 01:49 AM
Hmmmmmmm!!!??? While I love to see a 5th park built here I weould agree with the others that it's not going to happen for a while. It's the age old argument that they need to fix what they currently have before ever looking into building a 5th Florida Park.

2012 is a little out of the time realm too with 2007 nipping at out heals and then you have to look at the redeveloping ideas for the new park and construction.

I'm not saying it will never happen but I think they Mr. Iger and the Mouse House have other and possibly bigger things in mind. I'll check with my sister in Cali. Imagineering...not that I'll get a straight answer. :mickey:

PirateLover
12-01-2006, 02:04 AM
I'm not debating the possibility that there could, at some point, be a 5th park. But I highly doubt we will see it arrive in 5 years. Also, hasn't the villians idea been kicked around for at least a decade now? I've never looked at a map, but I think it might be a neat idea if possible to tack on a villians area to MGM. I'm not sure they would ever do an entire park themed around villians, though. But then again, you never know :mickey:

vizsla
12-01-2006, 04:17 AM
I would love to see a 5th park, but I don't expect to see that happen for a number of years. A majority of the attractions between the MK, MGM, and Epcot really need updating. I think that should be considered first before building another park.

SpecJoe Magic
12-01-2006, 07:15 AM
I don't believe we'll see another park open at WDW for at least 10 years. How do I know this? Well, I really don't, but there are many obstacles to overcome before it will happen. Disney had been and may still be having a shortage of Cast Members due to the nature of the Orlando area job market. There are a lot of options for people seeking employment, and I don't think that situation will change drastically anytime soon because the area is continuing to expand by leaps and bounds. Therefore, building a 5th park in the near future would cause even more Cast Member shortages. A brand new park is a huge investment, but adding new attractions to existing parks is much more affordable and will probably have a better return on investment. Animal Kingdom, the newest park, isn't even 10 years old yet, and it was a huge financial investment. Some people think that it suffers from lack of budget, but that is not true. It reportedly cost somewhere between 800 million and 1 billion dollars to develop and build and is just now starting to become a more fully developed park with additional funding being put into it.

If and when a 5th park is added, I don't think it will be a villians park. The villians park has been mentioned several times before, and I still say that it isn't a broad enough theme for an entire theme park. Plus, it might not be kid-friendly enough due to the theme. Disney always uses very broad themes for their parks that appeal to all ages and will allow for diverse attractions, and that is part of the reason for their success.

WDW has plenty of entertainment options available right now. It's difficult to see all of WDW even during a week-long stay, and my guess is that a week-long stay is the most time that the average guest will devote to WDW. Adding a 5th park won't necessarily encourage the average guest to extend his or her stay.

valjane
12-01-2006, 08:09 AM
They can't even adequately staff what they have now... I can't see them spreading themselves even more thin.

I'd like to see an expansion of AK (Australia!) before a new park.

Ian
12-01-2006, 10:41 AM
Animal Kingdom, the newest park, isn't even 10 years old yet, and it was a huge financial investment. Some people think that it suffers from lack of budget, but that is not true. It reportedly cost somewhere between 800 million and 1 billion dollars to develop and build ...

When you consider that the costs for a single E-ticket attraction currently run anywhere from $100 million (Mission: Space) to $200 million (Everest), maybe those people who think Animal Kingdom was built on the cheap are on to something ...

4ubie1
12-01-2006, 11:00 AM
Yes, sad to say but CMs do not have a great reputation for being reliable rumor sources. I personally would rather see improvement in the other parks before WDW considers adding a 5th gate.


I agree!! :thumbsup:

mcjaco
12-01-2006, 12:07 PM
There is a ruomor floating around about another park opening in California. I wouldn't put my money on it happening. California Adventure has been a disappointment, so until they get that fixed up, I doubt we'll see a new park in the USA.

IDreamofEeyore
12-01-2006, 12:18 PM
I'd like to see an expansion of AK (Australia!) before a new park.

That would be awesome!

Speedy1998
12-01-2006, 12:28 PM
He supposedly said that it will have a Disney Villains theme and have many thrill rides. -:


Until I read this part, I was in total disagreement with you. But, when added to an article I read not to long ago about how Disney is attempting to monopolize the Orlando vacation dollar, by giving people more and more reasons not to leave Disney property, this actually makes some sence. I mean even on intercot, how many times have you seen people complaining about the lack of thrill rides at Disney.

TheRustyScupper
12-01-2006, 01:00 PM
As it relates to a 5th park rumor:
You know,
. . . heard from a friend, who
. . . heard it from a brother, who
. . . heard it from a maid, who
. . . heard it from a mother, who
. . . heard it from a reliable source, who
. . . heard it from a cousin, who
. . . heard it from a secratary, who
. . . heard it from a person at the meeting, who
. . . heard it from me ???!!!

Ian
12-01-2006, 02:47 PM
... Disney is attempting to monopolize the Orlando vacation dollar, by giving people more and more reasons not to leave Disney property, this actually makes some sence. I mean even on Intercot, how many times have you seen people complaining about the lack of thrill rides at Disney.

True, but I think Disney is going to try and address this by adding new thrill rides in existing parks (Everest, Mission: Space, etc.).

I think Disney realizes the limited appeal a villians theme park would have. They tried to make villians a major franchise awhile back and it didn't go over very well.

BrerGnat
12-01-2006, 04:28 PM
I agree that a villains theme park would not be a great idea. I mean, talk about a limited consumer appeal.

However, I don't discount the possibility of them building more theme parks in the future. They certainly have enough land, and I really think they could at the very least use another WATER park.

I'm utterly shocked that they haven't yet built a "Pirates and Princess" Park. :rolleyes:

Ian
12-01-2006, 05:45 PM
I'm utterly shocked that they haven't yet built a "Pirates and Princess" Park. :rolleyes:

If you throw the other "P" in there (Pixar) it almost sounds like you're talking about Magic Kingdom ;)

I agree with you, though, Nat ... if they build another park it should definitely be a new water park. The other two get really crowded ever since River Country closed.

plutoboy
12-02-2006, 12:22 AM
There has always been the rumor of a third park for Disney out in California but according to my sister (who's in Imagineering in Cali) the third park when built will be a water park and not a full blown theme park. It is supposed to be built on a strawberry field that Disney purchased but has not been able to use due to some agreement they signed until this year (or maybe next).

I saw an article the other day that Garden Grove which is down the street from DL is in negotiations with a company to build a theme park in their part of town. What I found interesting about the article is that ALL of the city leaders have told the company that the new park is to "compliment Disneyland and not meant to be competition. The mentioned that they would like for the park to be similar to Universal Orlando's Island of Adventure. Everything is still in the talking and research stage at this point so I guess time will tell.

Supercali
12-02-2006, 12:56 AM
I read in one of the Orlando papers about some of the proposed 5th parks in the 1990s. The "Villain" park actually had the name or code name of Shadowlands. The paper told how the park would be themed around the darker elements of Disney films. So, it wouldn't be themed just around Disney Villains. That does seem rather limited. - I could see them incorporating the Pirates movies into a themed land. Or, they could have a Monstropolis land from Monster's Inc. - It could be cool if they also had original dark rides on the order of Pirates and The Haunted Mansion. - (Those are my two favorite rides). - Of course, there could also be an American version of DisneySea as the 5th park. - I would love that too! :cool:

LudwigVonDrake
12-03-2006, 11:12 AM
Before they even consider a 5th park, they need to do something with MGM so it's no longer a half day park :mickey:

Donald A
12-03-2006, 02:35 PM
As others have said I would have to think that Disney would have to add to the Animal Kingdom and MGM before adding another park.

Speedy1998
12-03-2006, 07:50 PM
Before they even consider a 5th park, they need to do something with MGM so it's no longer a half day park :mickey:


AAGGGHHH!!!!!! Disney MGM Studios is only a half day park to some people. Animal Kingdom is only a half day park to some people. And believe it or not MK and EPCOT are half day parks to some people. We all have our different taste, just because Disney Studios is not to your taste pealse don't go around calling it a half day park. It gives people who have never been to WDW the wrong impression, they plan incorrectly for their personnel taste, and miss something they may have really enjoyed. I have added up all the show times at the studios, and just seeing all the shows takes half a day. I will get off my :soapbox: now. Sorry for the interuption.

plutoboy
12-04-2006, 01:51 AM
Totally agree with Speedy that MGM is not a half day park....do I spend all day there???? Absolutely not but that's because I go in and so what I want and then leave. I do that with all the parks....one of the benefits of living in Orlando.

In regard to Disney concentrating on Ak and the Studios I would restate the fact that all the parks need a little pixie dust and some TLC...not just one or two of them. Why build a fifth park when all the others have plenty of area for new attractions (with the exception of the studios which is kind of land locked)?

Ian
12-04-2006, 10:43 AM
In regard to Disney concentrating on Ak and the Studios I would restate the fact that all the parks need a little pixie dust and some TLC...not just one or two of them. Why build a fifth park when all the others have plenty of area for new attractions (with the exception of the studios which is kind of land locked)?

Bingo ... while I agree that the Studios and AK need the most attention, I think all the parks are still in need of some sprucing up.

Epcot (which is still my 2nd favorite park) has really gotten some focus lately, but it's still suffering from the lack of popularity of Mission: Space and from the closure of WoL.

MK is actually starting to age ... when was the last good attraction they added to Magic Kingdom? It's been a looooooooooooong while. MK needs something new and shiny ...

AK just got Everest, but to me this is still the park that's the most lacking with anything to do. There are just too many shows and not enough rides for my taste. I think shows get stale fast and just don't sustain like quality rides do.

The Studios is sort of an odd duck ... they've got two of the best rides on property in RRC and ToT, but outside of that not a whole lot going on. This, to me, is a park struggling for an identity ever since they shut down the "Studio" part of the Disney Studios. Is it a thrill ride park, a movie backlot, or what? They just don't seem to know what to do with it. It needs work.

The point of all this is a fifth park, while it might seem like a good idea to some, I think it's a HORRENDOUS idea. They can't staff all the parks and resorts they have now with quality CM's, their operations infrastructure is unwieldly already, and their base cost to keep the lights on is so high that prices keep rising every year. If they add the costs of opening, staffing, arranging transportation to, etc. another theme park, I think it would push a resort that's already too big over the edge.

GrumpyFan
12-04-2006, 12:00 PM
Bingo ... while I agree that the Studios and AK need the most attention, I think all the parks are still in need of some sprucing up.


Hear, Hear! Could NOT Agree More! Fix/update everything, and add more value to what's already there first.

In my opinion, Epcot is in need of a lot of attention in multiple areas.

SpecJoe Magic
12-07-2006, 04:27 AM
When you consider that the costs for a single E-ticket attraction currently run anywhere from $100 million (Mission: Space) to $200 million (Everest), maybe those people who think Animal Kingdom was built on the cheap are on to something ...

It's not like WDW's other parks were full of attractions when they first opened, yet I rarely hear anyone say that any of the other 3 parks were built on the cheap.

I will admit that the MK did have a fairly large number of attractions at opening, but most of those were in Fantasyland, and they were among the least expensive in the park. Tomorrowland only had 3 attractions, and 2 of the 3 were basically films (Flight to the Moon & American Journeys) while the 3rd was the Speedway. Frontierland only had the Diamond Horseshoe, Country Bear Jamboree, and the Davy Crockett Canoes (Unless you also want to count the Shootin' Arcade). Adventureland was without Pirates and Liberty Square has always had only a few attractions.

Epcot had Spaceship Earth, Living with the Land, Kitchen Kabaret, Universe of Energy, and World of Motion (Communicore could maybe be counted) in Future World. World Showcase had the American Adventure and a few films. (El Rio de Tiempo may have been there, but I'm thinking that it was added later).

MGM had Great Movie Ride, Backstage Studio Tour, Indiana Jones Epic Stunt Spectacular, Superstar Televison, Monster Sound Show, and Magic of Disney Animation.

I'm not disputing that AK should have had several more attractions at opening, but I'm trying to show that the other parks weren't much or any better at opening.

I suppose at least some of what is considered cheap is defined by each individual's opinion, but there is no way that I will ever believe that AK was built on the cheap. The theming, detail, and landscaping throughout the park is impressive despite the small number of attractions that it had at opening, and all of that could not have been cheap. In addition, Animal Kingdom had the added cost of state-of-the-art facilities to help care for the animals. Maybe AK's budget wasn't utilized in the best possible way, but I believe that it did have a healthy budget. Compare it to California Adventure. DCA was most definitely a park that was built on the cheap. It has little theming, and many of the attractions are carnival rides. It's clear that AK received much better treatment than DCA. I know that's not saying much, but I'm trying to emphasize that AK's budget was not just a little more, it was a lot more.



I agree with you, though, Nat ... if they build another park it should definitely be a new water park. The other two get really crowded ever since River Country closed.

Even though I disagree with you about AK, I agree that a new water park should be next.


AAGGGHHH!!!!!! Disney MGM Studios is only a half day park to some people. Animal Kingdom is only a half day park to some people. And believe it or not MK and EPCOT are half day parks to some people. We all have our different taste, just because Disney Studios is not to your taste pealse don't go around calling it a half day park. It gives people who have never been to WDW the wrong impression, they plan incorrectly for their personnel taste, and miss something they may have really enjoyed. I have added up all the show times at the studios, and just seeing all the shows takes half a day. I will get off my :soapbox: now. Sorry for the interuption.

I don't believe any of them are half-day parks. I realize that us Disney veterans could navigate any one of them while doing and seeing most everything in half a day, but I doubt that most guests would be able to do that. Plus, I think there are many great things that are missed by rushing through a park.

mm59
12-18-2006, 08:44 PM
You do not koow what you have till it is gone. Like WOM ,Horizons,Figment,etc. So why want to add to the number of Parks ,fix what we have now.

MaizeNBrew
12-20-2006, 01:06 AM
While I certainly wouldn't consider MGM a half day park, I think it would be a crime to build a 5th park without doing some major updating to this park. There isn't any studio's go through anymore....It's laid out extraordinarily wierd....the main icon of the park is now the hat where you can buy things...There's a road goes from the hat to the muppets that looks like something should be there, but nothing's there...This park was obviously the least thought out park put together quickly to try to compete with Universal, but it needs some major work.

gtpooh
12-20-2006, 04:31 PM
I agree with the posts about adding to AK -- there is a lot to do, but a few more non-show attractions would balance out the park nicely.

I also agree that adding some attractions to MGM would be great as well (ideally non-show attractions), but I think AK needs it more at this point.

gresh00
12-22-2006, 05:42 PM
Someone posted earlier that IJSS was at MGM when it opened. I could have sworn it came a few months after the park opened.

Anyone know for sure?

MickeysDad
12-23-2006, 09:57 PM
It doesn't make any sense to build a fifth park. They don't get enough visitors to MGM and DAK as it is. They need to add attractions to those parks in order to increase single day ticket sales before they do anything else. It seems to me that what they have now fills up a week's vacation. I don't see why they would ever build a new park.

A Foolish Mortal
12-30-2006, 12:51 PM
There is a ruomor floating around about another park opening in California. I wouldn't put my money on it happening. California Adventure has been a disappointment, so until they get that fixed up, I doubt we'll see a new park in the USA.

I doubt that we will ever see another park in California at all. I went to DL 2 years ago, and the parks (especially California's Adventure) are so packed in together we could actually see residential areas not to far from the park. DL just doens't have enough room. WDW, however, is another story. I believe there is enough room (with no new hotels and such) for at maximum 5 more parks, if they are reasonably sized, not an Animal Kingdom size.

JPL
12-30-2006, 01:15 PM
The Rumour of another park at DLR was for a water park not an additional theme park like DCA. I think Disney wanted to give guests a reason to stay another day.

A Foolish Mortal
12-30-2006, 03:14 PM
The Rumour of another park at DLR was for a water park not an additional theme park like DCA. I think Disney wanted to give guests a reason to stay another day.

That makes sense. when I went I only stayed for 4 days. 1 downtown disney day, and then 3 for parks. There wasn't much of a reason to stay anymore. The water park, still, would have to be very small.

MickeysDad
12-30-2006, 09:23 PM
The Rumour of another park at DLR was for a water park not an additional theme park like DCA. I think Disney wanted to give guests a reason to stay another day.

That would make sense. It would also be a good place for the rumored Pirates water park

joelkfla
12-31-2006, 12:48 AM
I doubt that we will ever see another park in California at all. I went to DL 2 years ago, and the parks (especially California's Adventure) are so packed in together we could actually see residential areas not to far from the park. DL just doens't have enough room.
The rumored site for the 3rd CA park would be about a mile southeast on Harbor Blvd, out past the Convention Center. They would probably have to put in a monorail or something to link it with the existing resort.

Flower
12-31-2006, 06:34 PM
As much as I would love to see a 5th park, the others could use some changes and new rides,etc.

I love the idea of a Villian themed AREA, but I think a whole park would be too much. MGM already pays homage to the Villains with Fantasmic!, add some villain attractions there.

I love the rumours about a mythical land at AK, incorporate a land there.

As far as a third water park, yes it is very much needed. With all of the pirate theming going on lately, it seems like a logical theme for a water park.

plutoboy
01-01-2007, 12:54 AM
In response to a couple of posts on here.... WDW still has enough land for a 5th, 6th and even a 7th theme park in addition to some hotels and another water park/nighttime entertainment area if they ever choose to do so. This is even with the recent selling of the land that they own on the outskirts of the WDW property. While it is always nice to dream of a 5th theme park happening soon I strongly feel that Mr. Iger and the other top brass at the mouse house have the right approach. Let's fix what we have FIRST and then we can look at a possible US theme park growth. Hence the reason that we hear talk of majorly revamping DCA and the rumored improvements to the parks for WDW.

As for Disneyland expansion the spot for the new park expansion is not on what I would call Disneyland "proper". The area is a strawberry field a few miles away from Disneyland (from what I remember) and per the purchase agreement Disney has was not able to touch the land until recently.

PLease believe that I would love to see a 5th theme park for WDW. As a former long-time cast member of WDW I get just as pumped about new attractions as anyone. However just because the parks have been at capacity for the past week or so is not justification for building a new park....new park attractions YES but not an entirely new park.

Supercali
01-01-2007, 01:10 PM
Here's an idea, why not add to the existing parks AND add a fifth park. I don't buy into the excuse that the theme park market is saturated. I think it's all about creating quality attractions that will entice guests to make return visits. :thumbsup:

Ian
01-02-2007, 09:42 AM
Here's an idea, why not add to the existing parks AND add a fifth park. I don't buy into the excuse that the theme park market is saturated. I think it's all about creating quality attractions that will entice guests to make return visits. :thumbsup:It's not about the market being saturated or return visits, and it's not about whether or not people here think it would be nice to have a 5th park.

The fact is it would be economic lunacy to build a 5th gate at WDW right now. There is absolutely no additional profit to be made from it, so there's no possible way to justify spending well north of one billion dollars to add a new gate. Not when you could spend less than 50% of that, get the same result, and not increase your operating expenses even one iota.

Stu29573
01-02-2007, 11:37 AM
Will there be a 5th park?- Yes
Will it be soon?- No

Supercali
01-02-2007, 09:33 PM
Give me about 6 years and we'll see. :thumbsup:

Donald Duck 224
01-02-2007, 10:30 PM
I think the 5th park will come around 2015

Grizz16
01-02-2007, 11:58 PM
If and when there is a 5th park, it will probably be Pixar related, which would mean no MK full of Pixar rides :thumbsup:

lockedoutlogic
01-08-2007, 11:09 AM
There is a larger issue that is tied to this recurring discussion:

Is it possible that some day (possibly soon) that WDW will become saturated to the point where expansion is not beneficial or realistic?

This is something that has been in the back of my mind since my tenure as a Disney emp.....and it still gnaws at me....

What is the limit to that tract of land....and I don't mean the actual physical space...I mean what is the economic limit? how long before it doesn't make sense to expand further?

It would be nice if someday there is 100 resorts, 10 parks, a subway network, 8 waterparks, and 300 restaurants....but there will be a breaking point long before that....

I'm sure they'll get to 10,000 shops though ;)

Anyway, all this talk of expansion gets my mind off the tracks....though I agree with many posters in thinking that a new gate will only arrive after extensive reinvestment in the existing parks...as it should be.

Instead of new parks (which would undoubtedly run way over budget and open after downscaling - as they all have), I would be much more enthused in largescale development of MGM and AK....which is entirely possible...rather than adding more turnstyles...

Here's my ideas for both:

MGM
Divert the new Pixar market into attractions for the studios...thereby increasing the youth appeal of the park...
Get with Lucas and replace the stunt show...the main argument as to why Indiana Jones hasn't been changed is the amount of volume it handles...in case anyone has ever been to MGM there hasn't been a crowd to handle!!
Time for a real attraction...as in California and Paris...still shocking that this hasn't been done in Florida yet.
Get with Lucas and replace Star Tours with a real attraction...don't care what type...but this may the least imaginative use of an entertainment franchise with as much potential as Star Wars in any theme park on earth....it's time to reinvent

AK

Continue (or start...if not true) the negotiations with the Chinese Government and secure Giant Pandas. This would bring instant credibility, Star Power, and a great conservation aspect to the park....and pandas are so unique that it would suite disney's interests because they are not a "typical" zoo attraction...such as a tiger in a cage....
Develop another themed land...with Australia being a slam dunk and an easy sell to the customer. The animals are fairly adaptive and should provide alot of fun. You could throw another E-ticket in there...I would suggest an adaptation of Soarin'...which would be good for all ages and interesting...and maybe a rip-off Australian Steak/Sea Restaurant......this is easy development by Disney standards
A dedicated children's area....because let's face it: the boneyard and Chester and Hester isn't cutting it...
Speaking of...they should get rid of Chester and Hester...
And finally, MORE RESTAURANTS...nix restraurantosaurus and put at least 2 new quality table service locations...in addition to the new landry's near everest

Surfer Stitch
01-08-2007, 12:22 PM
I wish i had a buck for every time I heard this one. as much as I wish there was a new park I really think improvements are needed at the current parks first. Epcot, MGM and MK could all do with some cleaning up and AK def would benefit from a new addition. I'd rather see the third park if built be here in the US but as Figment said if built it will more than likely be overseas.

Jeany031
01-08-2007, 03:08 PM
i wanted to see disney-pixar studios with a the incredibles live show. I hope it will work.

MickeysDad
01-08-2007, 04:23 PM
There is a larger issue that is tied to this recurring discussion:

Is it possible that some day (possibly soon) that WDW will become saturated to the point where expansion is not beneficial or realistic?




Yes. Its just about here. But like I said earlier they need to make DAK and MGM full day parks first to increase single day tickets

Ian
01-08-2007, 04:52 PM
Is it possible that some day (possibly soon) that WDW will become saturated to the point where expansion is not beneficial or realistic?

That's pretty much what I've been getting at all along ...

lockedoutlogic
01-09-2007, 12:28 AM
That's pretty much what I've been getting at all along ...


I don't think they are quite there yet....but the last 15 years of development have given the public the false sense that things will continue as they have...which doesn't seem realistic


Right now...what other than DVC is under large scale development? It could be quite sometime before a major area is unveiled.
The best we can hope for now are quality attractions that add to the depth of the existing WDW...and erase the ugly memory of Chester and Hester, Magic Carpets of Aladdin, Stitch, and JIYI....
Everest is a good start...but much more is needed.

Ian
01-09-2007, 02:08 PM
I don't think they are quite there yet....I think that, not only are they already there, that they've actually gone a little beyond where they should have.

They have created a very untenable situation in WDW. The resort is too big for its own good. Its caused major staffing issues (both in terms of quality and pure head count), it gives them transportation headaches, and it's created a maintenance nightmare.


Right now...what other than DVC is under large scale development? It could be quite sometime before a major area is unveiled.
The best we can hope for now are quality attractions that add to the depth of the existing WDW...and erase the ugly memory of Chester and Hester, Magic Carpets of Aladdin, Stitch, and JIYI....
Everest is a good start...but much more is needed.I agree 100% ... and I hope it stays this way.

GrumpyFan
01-09-2007, 03:10 PM
While a 5th gate will probably appear sometime down the road, WDW is nowhere near ready to handle it. As mentioned by others, staffing and maintaining the existing structure (resorts, parks, transportation, etc), is already a big task that they're having trouble handling. Just take a look around at what's happening in the parks. Epcot and MGM are in need of modernization/refreshing, probably Epcot more than MGM, but still both need something done to keep them fresh. And, while Expedition Everest was a great improvement for AK, there is still lots of room for that park to grow.

I, for one, would much rather see more improvements to Epcot and MGM, adding another land or two to AK, and making some major changes to the transportation system (monorail, light rail, etc) before they even break ground on the 5th park.

lockedoutlogic
01-11-2007, 11:23 PM
I think that, not only are they already there, that they've actually gone a little beyond where they should have.

They have created a very untenable situation in WDW. The resort is too big for its own good. Its caused major staffing issues (both in terms of quality and pure head count), it gives them transportation headaches, and it's created a maintenance nightmare.

I agree 100% ... and I hope it stays this way.

There is a simple explanation for this problem....
Micheal Eisner and "the disney decade"

In many discussions with longtime employees...it is quite clear that the 1990's...while producing unprecedented growth for disney parks....absolutely killed the workforce's overall quality, skill, and work ethic....
Through the 1980's...working at WDW was generally coveted and considered a privilege...and honor by many....but Mikey Eisner changed that....
Now working for disney is "where should my next job be: Universal, Disney, or Bennigans on 192"....
I'm not exaggerating..the reason why they can't keep staff is because they have lowered their standards in order to squeeze more money out of the operation and in the process...run through the entire available labor pool. They now depend on completely inexperienced and unskilled workers, supplimented by international and american college indentured servitude (i kid not...the "college program" and "international program" are operated basically like a russian feudal era serfdom...mandated work with practically no compensation in return)...they've even killed their management personnel because the pay is generally below industry average and there is in many cases - literally- no opportunity for upward mobility. Managers bounce from location to location to location....laterally...without promotion or sufficient compensation increases...

But WDW is what it is....a pillar revenue source for all of disney's exploits....including supporting the many bad media and technology moves they've made in the last 10 years....and therefore is burdened by the necessity of operating at maximum profit while eliminating as much overhead as possible.

Unfortunately the elimination of money also decreases quality....as it has since the dawn of civilization and will continue to for the forseeable future....

Not2Loud
01-13-2007, 10:01 AM
Ok, I know I am not the expert on this, but why not through in my 2 cents anyways!

Is a 5th park really needed? I don't think so at this point in time. A family has a hard time seeing everything WDW offers today within a weeks timeframe. Some would argue I am sure, but think of all the little things there are to do and see. In fact, these would probably be things I would continue to add and expand. Having things within the complex for families to do without going to parks is a plus. We are staying for 11 days next month (longest trip yet), and honestly, I look forward to the days we don't go to the parks. Then again, I could be happy riding the monorail all day just looking out the windows. I look forward to watching the movies at the campfire at Ft. Wilderness, I look forward to strolling at the Boardwalk, playing with LEGO's, etc. I am glad to spend my money at WDW, but I don't need another park to do so (with the possible exception of a water park where River Country once was).

With all this said, this will be the first time I have stayed on WDW property since '89. I finally decided I hated leaving the "magic" each day. While it may cost a few dollars more, I haven't been this excited about a vacation in quite some time.

I will quite my mindless babbling now, thanks for the space to share!! :mickey:

kai2234
01-13-2007, 10:51 AM
My DH's friend just returned from taking his family to WDW. He says he spoke to a cast member who couldn't give any details, but stated that WDW was building a 5th Theme Park to be announced in 2007 or 08.

Can any of our cast member friends confirm this?

Please realize that an hourly CM that works at a park is most likely NOT going to know this information. I just don't want you getting excited.

Now, if you spoke to an Industrial Engineer for WDI, they may know of projects in the works. The catch? They would not release the information to you.

Just know that the information given to a "front-line" CM is on a need-to-know basis, and future developments/ticket price increases, etc don't fall into this category.

Ian
01-15-2007, 08:02 AM
There is a simple explanation for this problem....
Micheal Eisner and "the disney decade"

In many discussions with longtime employees...it is quite clear that the 1990's...while producing unprecedented growth for disney parks....absolutely killed the workforce's overall quality, skill, and work ethic....
Through the 1980's...working at WDW was generally coveted and considered a privilege...and honor by many....but Mikey Eisner changed that....
Now working for disney is "where should my next job be: Universal, Disney, or Bennigans on 192"....
I'm not exaggerating..the reason why they can't keep staff is because they have lowered their standards in order to squeeze more money out of the operation and in the process...run through the entire available labor pool. They now depend on completely inexperienced and unskilled workers, supplimented by international and american college indentured servitude (i kid not...the "college program" and "international program" are operated basically like a russian feudal era serfdom...mandated work with practically no compensation in return)...they've even killed their management personnel because the pay is generally below industry average and there is in many cases - literally- no opportunity for upward mobility. Managers bounce from location to location to location....laterally...without promotion or sufficient compensation increases...

But WDW is what it is....a pillar revenue source for all of disney's exploits....including supporting the many bad media and technology moves they've made in the last 10 years....and therefore is burdened by the necessity of operating at maximum profit while eliminating as much overhead as possible.

Unfortunately the elimination of money also decreases quality....as it has since the dawn of civilization and will continue to for the forseeable future....You said this absolutely perfectly. I agree 100%!

LudwigVonDrake
01-15-2007, 04:03 PM
Please realize that an hourly CM that works at a park is most likely NOT going to know this information. I just don't want you getting excited..

At least they didn't hear it from a bus driver :mickey:

Jasper
01-15-2007, 04:16 PM
It is not surprising that rumors like this come up every now and then. It is also not surprising when someone says they saw a memo or talked to someone involved in a meeting about new parks or new attractions.

The reason these things are not surprising? Any company that is looking for continued revenue growth is going to be constantly looking at all of their options, including new parks. That means creative people will meet, staff will write memos and reports, and bean counters will analyze the validity of these proposals. That means you will have a never ending supply of opportunity for rumors.

And yes, the change of people in charge of various areas will often times add fuel to the fire because these new people will want to see if they can find an existing plan that may have been overlooked which can allow them to get things moving quickly. Even though this is all a normal part of business it does become more pronounced when it is Disney.

The bottom line? Planning is normal, planning will create opportunities for rumors, don't put much stock in the rumors until there is an offical announcement!

hockeymom
01-17-2007, 10:48 AM
I thought that I heard somewhere that a "Sea World" like park in on the agenda for Florida.

lockedoutlogic
01-17-2007, 10:33 PM
I thought that I heard somewhere that a "Sea World" like park in on the agenda for Florida.

IF you mean a replica of Tokyo Disney Sea...then yes, it has been rumored.......

The only things that will be built at WDW in the next 10 years are more DVC units and new lands/ attractions in the existing four parks....maybe the outside chance of a further expansion at Downtown.....

all of those things are prudent and fine with me

Captain Ed Teach
01-28-2007, 12:26 PM
I would love a park near Downtown Disney/ Saratoga Springs/ OKW. Does anyone golf at LBV golf course? That would be a great location.

MouseDAD74
01-28-2007, 04:53 PM
If anyone has ever read a book on Walt or seen the movie that they sell in the parks, it is well understood that Walt did'nt worry too much about the cost of building his parks, or making a movie. When building Disneyland he is quoted as saying that the whole family was morgaged. I am a huge Disney fan, I also understand economics. Many would argue that spending 7 billion on buying Pixar was bad economics (just follow the stock market). My point is the Disney Company historically has never been afraid to spend money. They're currently spending a bunch of it overseas. Our world is growing rappidly so there will never be a shortage in ticket sales. There will however be less and less space to hold these people within 4 parks. When this happens(most likely sooner than later) they will build the 5th park. When Disney builds it, they will fill it. The expence to refurbish old rides is always built into the buget, so a new park will not take any money away from that. After all we are talking about the biggest entertainment company in the world. :mickey:

HndrdPrcnt
01-28-2007, 04:59 PM
Fix DCA and then you can worry about a 5th park at WDW!!!

BuzzLightbeer
01-30-2007, 11:05 AM
I heard on the radio yesterday that during the Super Bowl, Disney is making an announcement that they are building a new theme park just north of Frisco, TX (which is just north of the Dallas/Ft Worth area.) Seems like a really good spot for a "Midwest" Disney since there are no many large cities within just a few hours drive.

Any validity to this or is it just another rumor?

:mickey:


BUZZ

Stu29573
01-30-2007, 11:46 AM
I heard on the radio yesterday that during the Super Bowl, Disney is making an announcement that they are building a new theme park just north of Frisco, TX (which is just north of the Dallas/Ft Worth area.) Seems like a really good spot for a "Midwest" Disney since there are no many large cities within just a few hours drive.

Any validity to this or is it just another rumor?

:mickey:


BUZZ

Man I SO wish this were true! It actually makes a certain amount of sense due to the fact that all of mid-America would be served. That's probably why this rumor's been around so long. The last time I heard it, they were saying that it would be in the Denison area...But, alas, I'm 99.9999% sure that it's just wishful thinking. :(

AndrewJackson
02-01-2007, 08:48 PM
I heard on the radio yesterday that during the Super Bowl, Disney is making an announcement that they are building a new theme park just north of Frisco, TX (which is just north of the Dallas/Ft Worth area.) Seems like a really good spot for a "Midwest" Disney since there are no many large cities within just a few hours drive.

Any validity to this or is it just another rumor?

:mickey:


BUZZ

This is actually true. Steve Jobs is going to announce it. The name will be iPark.

:secret:

skisurf2
02-02-2007, 06:31 AM
Just got my 2006 yearly report book for stock holders. Funny thing under the park section. They have 2 pages that fold out called dreaming. One picture has "concept for new park." On page with new Pirate adventure and Toy story mania.

Marceline
04-23-2007, 11:53 PM
Just read the whole thread....must chuck my two bits in with the rest, and I will call it....Disney Dream Wishlist:

-Update and modernize the gaping holes in FW in Epcot, replace both WOL and UOE with something GOOD. (wimpers and sheds a tear for Horizons....why Mr. Eisner....WHY???:sob:)

-Integrate Pixar, as previously suggested multiple times, into MGM. Add an E-ride Villains attraction and also replace IJSS with an Indian Jones ride!!! Make ST into something that won't make 90% of the populace nauseous PLEASE! We love wookies, not tossing our cookies.:sick:

-AK is still growing I just feel it. So let it bloom into an Australian area and a Mythical Beastie area. That Dino carnival area stinks...fix it or doze it. (Harsh but true.) Most importantly, MORE TS places to eat. I want to stay in the park longer, but ya gotta feed me something good. I need good Indian cuisine somewhere on property pronto.....doesn't this seem like a good place guys???:cool:

-A third water park is sorely needed, go Pirate crazy if you must, that'd be fine. A revisioned RC would even work as long as you didn't fill it with yucky lake water. :thumbsup:

-Lastly, if you must build a 5th park in FL, please, a DisneySea for the US modeled after the gorgeous Tokyo park is the ONLY way to go. Also incorporate a hotel as the park entrance like the Mira Costa there or the Disneyland Paris hotel, THAT is a brilliant idea.:mickey:

Okay good, well, wishlist rant over, seems like we all agree.....:D ...you have your assignments so get to work, meeting adjourned. :blush: ;)

WDWizard
04-24-2007, 12:55 AM
It's probably not likely that we will see a 5th WDW park. All of Disney's other resorts have 1-2 theme parks and I'm sure Disney has more focus to add a third park to the Disneyland Resort.

It would make sense to add a Florida DisneySea theme park though, to compete with SeaWorld and Islands of Adventure. In that new WDW travel channel special they did hint that
"Animal Kingdom is the fourth and largest of the Florida parks, but certainly not the last"

MickeysDad
04-24-2007, 08:53 AM
[CENTER]It's probably not likely that we will see a 5th WDW park.

I don't think there will ever be a 5th park. Makes no sense at all financially.

PeterPan
04-24-2007, 05:30 PM
I am thinking IF there is a 5th theme park, it will be a long, long time in the future. It has been mentioned, but the LABOR POOL must be considered. Who is going to staff this kind of expansion? They are literally (excuse me I hope this doesn't offend a CM) scrapeing the bottom of the barrel now for workers (apologies to the really enthusiastic, Disney-oriented CM's who actually have a passion for the Disney culture, as opposed to those thousands who simply want a pay check and could not possibly even tell you who Roy Disney is.) Think about it...if they hire even thousands more to run a new theme park - what kind of people will they hire? They used to be very selective. Now, if you can get thru the door, they are putting you to work.

Maybe this is off the subject, but just two weeks ago, I was asking a CM about the themeing in his shop (this was a MANAGER I was talking to...) HE HAD NO IDEA WHAT I WAS TALKING ABOUT. I said "Your shop has a back-story - every Disney shop does - don't you know the story your shop is telling?" Friends, this was a mystery to this dude. No one had ever told him that one part of the shop is the home of a Pennsylvania Dutch Family, one part was the home of a Music Teacher, and one part was the shop of a Woodcarver who makes toys for children. The MANAGER had NO IDEA. Now if this is the kind of managment in place now, what is to become of the future of WDW??? I ask you...

With that kind of thing going on, how can they possibly staff a new park?

Staffing and entirely new Theme Park at WDW is just one issue - there are many more, and many have been brought up on this thread in a truly plausible, intelligent way.

Dream on, friends. Dreaming is a Disney thing. But it will be many, many years before they announce a new Theme Park. When they do, it will be an adaptation of Tokyo DisneySea.

elorac
04-24-2007, 06:04 PM
I don't think there will ever be a 5th park. Makes no sense at all financially.

I find your lack of faith disturbing

I love your quote alongside your signature. :D

gsimpson
04-25-2007, 02:12 AM
While I am certainly not saying I think that Disney is hot on the path to a 5th park I do have one observation.... Has anyone noticed how many more hotel rooms they are building in the next 3 years? The west expansion for value and moderate rooms (4000-5000 rooms), the 4 seasons (1000+ rooms), the DVC contemporary and AK (probably 2000 or more rooms between them), Waldorf and Hilton (I know they are not Disney but they don't just randomly build things either), Marriot World Center (from my rewards news letter they are adding more buildings). Where are they planning to put all these thousands of rooms worth of people during the days?

Does anyone happen to know what the hotel expansion schedule was like in the past versus theme park openings?

Supercali
04-27-2007, 12:04 AM
Jim Hill has said that with the additional expansion of hotels, they will have about 5,000 too many. I can't believe that Disney would be that stupid. Something must be up. If it's not a new theme park, then it could be a round of major new attractions.:mickey: