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dizneyfreek
05-16-2007, 06:49 PM
I was just wondering.......If the VWL has 136 vacation homes, how many actual DVC owners are there for this resort? 136?
With not many "homes" will it be hard to reserve a week(11 months out) even if its your home resort?

vizsla
05-16-2007, 08:34 PM
I don't know how many DVC members own at the VWL, but if you calculate the 136 homes at a week stay for 52 weeks would equal 7072 members based on a one week stay.

CarolMN
05-17-2007, 09:30 AM
I was just wondering.......If the VWL has 136 vacation homes, how many actual DVC owners are there for this resort? 136?
With not many "homes" will it be hard to reserve a week(11 months out) even if its your home resort?I don't know how many owners there are at VWL, either - but DVC resorts are intended to operate at or near capacity every day of the year. But obviously, some dates book up sooner than others

FWIW, I've not ever read any reports that someone was unable to reserve a week at the VWL if they called for the reservation 11 months prior to check out. It can be difficult to reserve there if you have to use the 7 month window, though.

lockedoutlogic
05-17-2007, 10:56 AM
When we bought our 160 points at Saratoga last fall....we became the owner of 0.05% of Unit 897.....

So that's 1/2 of 1 percent of 1 unit out of 700......

So by "owning" at DVC....you are basically in a free for all to get reservations.....there are somewhere near 120,000 owners now spread out over roughly 3000 total vacation club units....

you do the math....the odds of getting a specific resort decreases each day the sell more units (just back from Saratoga...and the sales office was packed with people on a pretty much daily basis)

pshokie
05-17-2007, 01:47 PM
you do the math....the odds of getting a specific resort decreases each day the sell more units (just back from Saratoga...and the sales office was packed with people on a pretty much daily basis)

Have to agree with this one. We just finished our first trip to WDW, and we wanted to go on the DVC tour. The SSR showroom was a virtual ghost town when we arrived at 9:00. by the time we left at 11:00, all CMs were busy (and then some).

When we indicated we did not want to put money down that day, the presentation was quickly but professionally wrapped up.

Kinda of a "NEXT!" feeling to it. But as I said, it was not rude or unprofessional.

We are on the fence (about to fall on the DVC side), and I am getting nervous not so much about the money aspects, but more on the will we use it? aspects.

And the added pressure of just the shear numbers of people looking, not necessarily buying, is causing me some concern.

CarolMN
05-18-2007, 09:47 AM
......(snip)....
you do the math....the odds of getting a specific resort decreases each day the sell more units (just back from Saratoga...and the sales office was packed with people on a pretty much daily basis)Keep in mind that dizneyfreek ( the OP) asked about booking at the 11 month window.

Until the 7 month window opens, you are only competing with the members that also own at your home resort. If you are reserving your home resort at 11 months, the odds of getting what you want do not decrease with more owners! Disney cannot and does not sell more points than the resort has space to handle.

Of course, not everyone can stay at the same time, but everyone doesn't want to stay at the same time, either. Again, I have not heard of anyone getting shut out if they book at the 11 month window.

Some times and unit types do book more quickly than others - for example, BWV owners know that they have to call day by day at the 11 month window if they want to be sure of getting a standard view or guaranteed Boardwalk view without waitlisting. There are a few other examples where day by day is recommended, but the vast majority of stays can be booked with just one call if you use your 11 month window.

Now if you are thinking of the 7 month window and booking a non-home resort, I agree with you. Competition to book the smaller WDW DVC resorts at 7 months is increasing as more owners are aded to the system - at 7 months, a point is a point is a point.

It is definitely becoming more difficult to reserve the smaller WDW DVC resorts (VWL, BCV & BWV) at 7 months, but if you bought where you want to be most of the time, more members is not a problem for you!.

lockedoutlogic
05-18-2007, 12:39 PM
Keep in mind that dizneyfreek ( the OP) asked about booking at the 11 month window.

Until the 7 month window opens, you are only competing with the members that also own at your home resort. If you are reserving your home resort at 11 months, the odds of getting what you want do not decrease with more owners! Disney cannot and does not sell more points than the resort has space to handle.

Of course, not everyone can stay at the same time, but everyone doesn't want to stay at the same time, either. Again, I have not heard of anyone getting shut out if they book at the 11 month window.

Some times and unit types do book more quickly than others - for example, BWV owners know that they have to call day by day at the 11 month window if they want to be sure of getting a standard view or guaranteed Boardwalk view without waitlisting. There are a few other examples where day by day is recommended, but the vast majority of stays can be booked with just one call if you use your 11 month window.

Now if you are thinking of the 7 month window and booking a non-home resort, I agree with you. Competition to book the smaller WDW DVC resorts at 7 months is increasing as more owners are aded to the system - at 7 months, a point is a point is a point.

It is definitely becoming more difficult to reserve the smaller WDW DVC resorts (VWL, BCV & BWV) at 7 months, but if you bought where you want to be most of the time, more members is not a problem for you!.

I agree with all your points...

however, I then have to wonder why someone is asking about the 11 month booking window at a place that sold out in 2002....Wilderness Lodge is no longer for sale....that is where I'm confused.

CarolMN
05-18-2007, 03:31 PM
I agree with all your points...

however, I then have to wonder why someone is asking about the 11 month booking window at a place that sold out in 2002....Wilderness Lodge is no longer for sale....that is where I'm confused.
VWL ( as well as the other sold out DVC resorts) can still be purchased via resale.

Also, even though Disney is not actively selling VWL, you can still get VWL directly from Disney if you are insistent, persistent and willing to wait. Disney repackages & resells contracts it picks up via its ROFR.

Those who want to mostly stay at a specific resort, are well advised to buy there.

Of course, the ability to always stay where you want to be has to be balanced with the longer contracts that can be had at SSR and AKV (assuming those aren't the resorts you prefer to stay most of the time). And if you can't take advantage of the home resort booking window, then it really doesn't matter which resort you choose to buy. At 7 months, you compete with every DVC member for space, no matter which resort you purchased.

MarkC
05-18-2007, 04:53 PM
In addition to the last posts, not all members use their points for their home resorts. You can stay at different Disney resorts, hotels all over the world, Disney cruises, etc. Resorts may be sold out but there still can be availabilty.

lockedoutlogic
05-18-2007, 08:50 PM
VWL ( as well as the other sold out DVC resorts) can still be purchased via resale.

Also, even though Disney is not actively selling VWL, you can still get VWL directly from Disney if you are insistent, persistent and willing to wait. Disney repackages & resells contracts it picks up via its ROFR.

Those who want to mostly stay at a specific resort, are well advised to buy there.

Of course, the ability to always stay where you want to be has to be balanced with the longer contracts that can be had at SSR and AKV (assuming those aren't the resorts you prefer to stay most of the time). And if you can't take advantage of the home resort booking window, then it really doesn't matter which resort you choose to buy. At 7 months, you compete with every DVC member for space, no matter which resort you purchased.

Again...agree with all of these points (i'm just playing devil's advocate here)....

I will never, for the life of me...understand why someone would go the resale "route"....
It just doesn't make any sense. You are cutting twelve or so years....or over 25% of the term of your contract....and paying more for the points than they originally sold for....

This is where you hear the "I really love Beach Club"...type comments.
That may well be....but not only is it nowhere near as good of a deal....it also has the potential of driving up the initial purchase prices of the new locations....If people line up to buy WL at 95 a point....why not make the new contemporary vilas 130 or 150?

The advocation of resale is really...not advisable...in my opinion...unless it can be done at a substantially discounted price.

hubbyofadisneyholic
05-18-2007, 09:56 PM
In the fall of 2003 we bought at OKW via resale for $72/pt. At our age we had no delusions of living until 2054 so the extra years meant very little to us.
Buying OKW we saved roughly $15-20/pt and we like OKW better than SSR.
So for us resale was the way to go.

Maleficent's Dad
05-18-2007, 11:08 PM
Those who want to mostly stay at a specific resort, are well advised to buy there.

Of course, the ability to always stay where you want to be has to be balanced with the longer contracts that can be had at SSR and AKV (assuming those aren't the resorts you prefer to stay most of the time). And if you can't take advantage of the home resort booking window, then it really doesn't matter which resort you choose to buy. At 7 months, you compete with every DVC member for space, no matter which resort you purchased.
I do agree here!
Booking at your home resort is a huge convenience - and becoming more and more important as DVC grows.

The wait list option - while still a good one - is not nearly as reliable as it once was. So if your heart is set on one resort, I'd purchase there.

This is not to say that the wait list won't work, I'm simply stating the facts - that as DVC grows in numbers, your chances of getting a resort other than your home diminishes.

Of course the length of contract does come in to play here.

Just food for thought.

MarkC
05-19-2007, 10:35 AM
As for the comments about not buying resale, that may be true for you but not for me and others. First, I can buy resale for about $7,000 less than buying new and get enough points to use for how we vacation. Our entire family agrees we want to always stay at the Beach Club. However, due to he kids being in school for a few years and being very involved inactivities, we are severely limited on when we can vacation. If we bought into another resort and were not able to get into the Beach Club, our vacation would not be nearly as enjoyable. So for us, buying resale made much more sense than buying new. I'll be 82 when the time runs up, so I'm not worried about the extra 12 years. If I can renew for my family at that time, so be it. However, this works out best for us. To each his own, I guess.

lockedoutlogic
05-19-2007, 04:15 PM
As for the comments about not buying resale, that may be true for you but not for me and others. First, I can buy resale for about $7,000 less than buying new and get enough points to use for how we vacation. Our entire family agrees we want to always stay at the Beach Club. However, due to he kids being in school for a few years and being very involved inactivities, we are severely limited on when we can vacation. If we bought into another resort and were not able to get into the Beach Club, our vacation would not be nearly as enjoyable. So for us, buying resale made much more sense than buying new. I'll be 82 when the time runs up, so I'm not worried about the extra 12 years. If I can renew for my family at that time, so be it. However, this works out best for us. To each his own, I guess.

Indeed....;)

rsumrall
05-19-2007, 11:32 PM
Again...agree with all of these points (i'm just playing devil's advocate here)....

I will never, for the life of me...understand why someone would go the resale "route"....
It just doesn't make any sense. You are cutting twelve or so years....or over 25% of the term of your contract....and paying more for the points than they originally sold for.....

I have to humbly disagree with your point. I just purchased at SSR via resale. We got 210 pts, which are still for sale through Disney for $104 (currently running special for $94) for $85/pt with 295 points banked! We knew what we wanted (the 2054 expiration and around 210 points), and we patiently waited until a contract came available. Sure, we could have bought through Disney sooner, but waiting a month or two saved us $1800+ and gave us a bonus of points in the bank.

I personally think it is wiser to go the resale market. If you look around out there, you'll find any resort you want with a significant discount.

lockedoutlogic
05-21-2007, 02:52 PM
I have to humbly disagree with your point. I just purchased at SSR via resale. We got 210 pts, which are still for sale through Disney for $104 (currently running special for $94) for $85/pt with 295 points banked! We knew what we wanted (the 2054 expiration and around 210 points), and we patiently waited until a contract came available. Sure, we could have bought through Disney sooner, but waiting a month or two saved us $1800+ and gave us a bonus of points in the bank.

I personally think it is wiser to go the resale market. If you look around out there, you'll find any resort you want with a significant discount.

Ok....I'm glad that worked out for you so well...but you completely missed the point.

I'm saying that it is not wise to purchase the OLDER vacation club properties...not Saratoga. In fact, it seems so strange that there are as many resales available at Saratoga as their are. It is probably the same overreaching phenomenon of a couple of years ago that has record numbers of homes going into default on mortgages....eyes bigger than wallet.

Saratoga is still a new property...even if it now has a sooner expiration than AKV.

I'm saying that one should not purchase a location like OKW, Vero, or Beach club at a higher price than they originally sold for....you are basically buying a 25% used product at more than the original retail price.

for the record...as long as the initial prices remain in sight of the resale prices...you are pretty much always going to be better off buying the newest available property.

Of course, the Contemp is going to go up and they will probably increase the prices by 50%...because people are basically suckers for monorails and fiberglass castles.....and prove me wrong.

well see...:thedolls:

MdmMim
05-22-2007, 10:13 AM
I'm saying that one should not purchase a location like OKW, Vero, or Beach club at a higher price than they originally sold for....you are basically buying a 25% used product at more than the original retail price.


For some, the 11 month window is very important, and one of the older resorts may be much more desirable than the newer ones. My vacations are enhanced by staying at a DVC location that I love. :cloud9: If I were shut out at 7 months, I would not be happy. (I do not use the waitlist, as I like to have all my plans in place at 11 months.)

Also, there are many for whom the end date is not a consideration. I'm not interested in purchasing points at a resort just so my kids will have DVC access after 2042. I want a resort that we can fully enjoy now. (If the kids want DVC after the end date, it'll be up to them to purchase.)

CarolMN
05-22-2007, 10:23 AM
...(snip)....I'm saying that it is not wise to purchase the OLDER vacation club properties...not Saratoga. .........

I'm saying that one should not purchase a location like OKW, Vero, or Beach club at a higher price than they originally sold for....you are basically buying a 25% used product at more than the original retail price.

for the record...as long as the initial prices remain in sight of the resale prices...you are pretty much always going to be better off buying the newest available property.......I disagree - what good is it to buy SSR or AKV or whatever if you don't want to stay there? If you want to stay at OKW or BCV or BWV, and buying those gives you the ability to stay there for less than you would pay by booking through CRO (even if you are lucky enough to get a discount), how are you better off buying SSR or AKV?

Resort rooms have gone up in price since those older DVC resorts first became available. It makes more sense to me to compare the resale prices with the amount you'd have to spend to book the same rooms for cash today - saying that you are buying a "25% used product at more than the original retail price" is just as logical as saying you shouldn't stay at the Poly because it isn't new anymore and it costs more this year than last year!

IMHO, you are comparing apples and oranges. Even though the resale prices are mostly a reflection of Disney's desire to keep resale prices at a certain level, resale prices are also about supply and demand.

"Used" or not, lots of people want to stay at the smaller resorts especially during popular times and you can't be sure of getting in if you can't reserve before the 7 month window opens.

What's the point of "saving" a few dollars if you don't get what you want? To me, that would be "wasting" the dollars that I did spend.

Again, JMHO. YMMV (and does, apparently). :)

I only agree with you re buying SSR or AKV if the party buying wants to mostly stay there or doesn't care where they stay as long as they are on property. That's true of some, but it never applied to me.

Why do people pay more to stay at the GF or the Hilton when they will be "better off" staying at All Star Music or Motel 6?

People's personal preferences & wants make a huge difference - otherwise we'd all be buying the least expensive automobile we could find. After all, they all get us from place to place , so why pay more to have a Porsche when a Yugo serves the same function?

At WDW, guests who want to stay at BCV/BC/YC or BWV /BWI and book for cash via CRO are willing to pay more than those who want to stay at AKL or SSR. Why are they willing to pay more if there is no difference? I'm not saying there is anything wrong with AKL or SSR. They are wonderful resorts. I am just among those who prefer the EPCOT resort location and I am willing to pay more to stay there. No way would I be "better off" purchasing SSR or AKV!

MarkC
05-22-2007, 12:37 PM
I also think it's not fair to compare what the original sale price was compared to value today. The nightly rates are so much higher. To use another analogy, someone could argue that you shouldn't pay $300,000 for a 80 year old house because it only cost $5,000 new. However, you can only base things on current value. The market value now may be even higher. This is an individual decision on how much to buy and where. It doesn't matter if you're doing it for financial reasons or lifestyle reasons. Some people like Ford and some Chevy. You can only make the best decision for you.

lockedoutlogic
05-22-2007, 09:55 PM
I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree...though I'm not discounting anyone's points (no pun intended :))

However...the argument that the rooms are "so much more now" is not quite valid. DVC point prices have gone up about $30 a point since 2000...or roughly a 40% increase

Rooms have gone up about 20-40 dollars per night since 2000...or somewhere on the order of 20-25 percent increase on the rack rate.

Just an FYI...though are many different ways to crunch the numbers and angles...

I personally will enjoy the extra twelve years....and wouldn't mind leaving it to my kids....so they can either use it or sell it.

SignguyTom
05-22-2007, 11:04 PM
The number of owners at any DVC resort could vary greatly, actually. If you wanted to, you could calculate the number of points it would take to rent every single unit for a year, and you would end up with some huge total. That's the number Disney uses to base its calculations when they sell the ownership interests.

The actual number of owners would depend on the number of points each one purchased. Small points purchases would equal a large number of of owners and vice versa. The beauty is that as owners use their points at other locations, those unit availability points become available to other owners, Interval International members, etc. That is one of the things that makes DVC so cool. DVC is regulated to never sell more points per resort than could be used in a year if every owner used their points exclusively at their home resort every year.

If you own points at a DVC resort, you are guaranteed to have the opportunity to use them at your home resort at least until the 7-month window arrives. First come, first served, but the points are guaranteed to be available sometime during the 11-month window with advanced planning and maybe some flexibility during certain seasons.