DDP & Tips

[Willowwind]

Some people here have said that they think service is suffering because of the DDP. Do you think that this is directly related to a lack of tips?

I know that Disney says a gratuity is included in the price, does anyone know how much of it the servers see? Once upon a time Disney was a " no tipping zone". I have to wonder if that frame of mind effects what the wait staff is getting in their pay checks.

If that is the case, is there anything that we as customers can do to help ensure legendary service? How does one encourage a server to "care" about their table without insulting them?

[Seasonscraps]

I have to presume the CM's are getting the tips that are indicated on meal checks.

I don't think there's been a real decline in service. Of course there's the occasional bad server but overall I have still received the same service I have come to know at Disney or at any other restaurant.

I think the best way to ensure better service (for lack of a better phrase) is to be friendly and polite.

[JPL]

Service and Tips go hand in hand. It's human nature if the tip is included what motivation does the server have to go the extra mile for the guest. WDW is not the only place I have noticed this problem. Several restaurants I have been to outside of WDW have the tip included for a large party and I notice a drop off in the level service when eating there with a large party. I have found for the most part I'm not saying all the the time or with every server but the garaunteed tip does have a negative on service.

[kjmom]

Tipping is included with the DDP. When we were there in Dec. we had excellent service and couldn't complain. One exception was the AWESOME service we recieved at Mama Melrose from a server named Kevin. He went above and beyond. When we left we tipped him and he caught us at the table and tried to get us to take it back because the tip was included with the DDP. We insisted he keep it because his service was OUTSTANDING!!!!:mickey:

So I say it is not expected and not required to get excellent service at WDW;)

[SBETigg]

I know that Disney says a gratuity is included in the price, does anyone know how much of it the servers see? Once upon a time Disney was a " no tipping zone". I have to wonder if that frame of mind effects what the wait staff is getting in their pay checks.


When was Disney a no tipping zone? Disney TS restaurants have had tipping for as long as I have been going to WDW, since 1981. At some places, the tips were included in the bill, but not all. We've always tipped. We've usually had good service.

[Marker]

if the tip is included what motivation does the server have to go the extra mile for the guest

Pride, honor, doing a job well, doing the right thing.

I have visited on two different occasions using the DDP, 5 nights in July, 4 nights in March, and I had good service without fail, each time. Sure, some servers are better than others, but I can't say I've experienced any BAD service.

[mook3y]

DDP includes 18% tip at all TS. I asked a couple servers and they get to keep it all.

In two trips and at close to 20 TS meals, we had great service at all but one meal and the issues with that meal were taken care of by management.

[Katiebell]

It's human nature if the tip is included what motivation does the server have to go the extra mile for the guest.


Pride, honor, doing a job well, doing the right thing.

Absolutely...and going into the service field in the first place because you are a people person. And wanting to do your job well because you will be seen as a valued employee.

Some Disney servers weren't wild about the DDP when it first came out, but warmed up to it quickly. The guaranteed gratuity is a actually many times a relief. I've read threads on tipping here, and people say they routinely tip 15%, 20% or more. Sadly, that is not the norm. Too often a server busts their rear and gets stiffed on the tip, which is a major part of their wage -- either intentionally by people who are cheap, or unintentionally by those who can't do the math (really easy... 10% + half again is 15%, 10% X 2 is 20%), or who don't understand the custom of tipping. When we visited Ireland, we routinely left tips and got some puzzled looks before our guide explained it wasn't customary -- although always appreciated! The 18% gratuity from the DDP guests is automatically added to the server's paychecks, and has in many cases made a huge difference in their take home pay. The antiquated cash register system might be a hassle from time to time, but over all the servers do appreciate the DDP. At least, that's what I'm being told :thumbsup:

[Bruegge]

I'd love to hear from a server...

years ago I served while in college. One the "little known somewhat illegal perks" was you only had to claim enough tip income to bring your total income for the night up to minimum wage...

The majority back then was cash tips (yes credit cards were around but it was the "cha ching" method dirty carbon copies etc... Am i the only one who remembers) Man, am I old...lol

Back to the topic.

In a nutshell we paid taxes on only about 1/3 of our income... Now a server must claim 7% or 8% of their checks written or something like that... or if credit card tips are larger they must pay taxes on that.

I wonder if the DDP 18% (while they ARE getting the money) has caused some of the server to be frustrated with paying the taxes on the full amount of their income.. Yea, I know they should like everybody else but anyone who served/waited tables knows what I'm talking about.

Scott

[JPL]

Hmm I'm sure the servers have mixed emotions but here is the question do they get 18% of what an OOP customer would pay or do they get 18% of the $24.50 allocated by the DDP?

[mook3y]

Hmm I'm sure the servers have mixed emotions but here is the question do they get 18% of what an OOP customer would pay or do they get 18% of the $24.50 allocated by the DDP?

The receipts from the restaurants show 18% of the total meal. At our meal for Narcoossee's, it was over $45 tip for the server.

[tyandskyesmom]

I've read threads on tipping here, and people say they routinely tip 15%, 20% or more. Sadly, that is not the norm. Too often a server busts their rear and gets stiffed on the tip, which is a major part of their wage -- either intentionally by people who are cheap, or unintentionally by those who can't do the math (really easy... 10% + half again is 15%, 10% X 2 is 20%), or who don't understand the custom of tipping. The 18% gratuity from the DDP guests is automatically added to the server's paychecks, and has in many cases made a huge difference in their take home pay.

See, I am seeing this from the opposite end of the spectrum...

In my eyes, you (the wait staff) chose that job. You had tons of opportunities and you chose to wait tables. You chose that job knowing that the general pay scale was lower than your average minimum wage employee in another field. The tip, as I see it, is not given just because I chose to eat at your establishment and got seated at your table but is given for service above and beyond. I am already paying to eat there and part of eating there is being served. So in my opinion you don't just get a tip because you served me! I did not tell you to take a job that depended upon tips to make up your income...you chose that job. So, that being said, if you want a tip (yes, any tip) you need to earn it! I want smiles, I want a knowledgeable server, I want you to be friendly to my kids, if free re-fills are included with my drink I want it filled when you see it is empty at the end of the table, I do not want mistakes on my order or forgotten items, I do not want to feel like you just cannot wait to get out of there even if you do! Your tip depends on how well you provided these extras because the tip is extra. The 18% is set as a standard for a good, well served (meaning all the things we as customers have come to expect from table service) meal...it is a guideline for diners who think the wait staff deserves a good tip and yet are unsure what that is, not as a manditory fee for eating out. When you wait on my family, you are being judged from the second we are seated. Everything done or not done increases or decreases your tip. Your attitude increases/decreases your tip. Believe me, I have given above and beyond (Artist Point comes to mind) for a tip and I have left nothing. No one tips me because I got their medical bills paid...that is my job! I get kind of tired of hearing about the poor waitresses and waiters and how people are so cheap because they are not tipping so these people cannot pay their bills...we should not (and I don't) feel sorry for anyone who was able to choose a job, and that should not have any basis for the reason you tip. A tip is for good service...PERIOD.

[mjaclyn]

I would think the servers would be glad to get a guaranteed tip of 18% with every meal they serve. In most cases, I think people tip less not more. DH is the exception - he'll tip 20% minimum even if the service isn't great.


Believe me, I have given above and beyond (Artist Point comes to mind) for a tip and I have left nothing.

If a tip is for good service, as you said, why wouldn't you leave one at Artist Point even though you admit service was 'above and beyond'? That, IMHO is very rude. You should definitely tip for good service. As for the rest, it may be the job they chose, but at least in the USA a lot of people take that job FOR the tips. Waiters / waitresses don't make minimum wage. They only make like $2.40 per hour or something - definitely not enough to survive on without tips. Tipping, in my opinion, is PART of the job - so I always leave somthing even if the service was terrible. It's part of eating out.

[Katiebell]

The DDP has increased tip income for Disney servers, in some cases dramatically. The server I spoke with said that previously, before the DDP, the gratuity portion of their paychecks was often wiped out by union dues, taxes, and insurance -- which sometimes ate into their vacation pay and bonuses as well. The figure I was given -- and this was that server's personal opinion and experience -- was that the tips have increased servers incomes 30-50% in the last 2 years, and can make up 50% or more of their paycheck.

Yes, servers are taxed on the full amount, but they are still getting much more than they were before. Part of that increase is definitely due to busier restaurants, customers on the DDP ordering more, and ordering without worrying about the cost of the menu items, but it also is due to the guaranteed gratuity, instead of relying on customers to tip fairly, or appropriately. Which means, although folks who post on "tipping" threads will say they typically tip 15%+, that's not what the majority of the public tips.

I think the magic number for the IRS is 10% -- if a server claims less than 10% on their taxes, then they could be red flagged for an audit. Any tips included on their paychecks are automatically reported in full to the IRS. Just since I've been made aware of this, I've stopped charging tips to my credit card and started carrying cash to tip my servers so they can decide for themselves how much they want to declare. I plan to carry extra money while at WDW, so if a server is exceptional, I can add a little cash tip to the one already included on the DDP.

[Katiebell]

In my eyes, you (the wait staff) chose that job. You had tons of opportunities and you chose to wait tables. You chose that job knowing that the general pay scale was lower than your average minimum wage employee in another field. The tip, as I see it, is not given just because I chose to eat at your establishment and got seated at your table but is given for service above and beyond. I am already paying to eat there and part of eating there is being served. So in my opinion you don't just get a tip because you served me! I did not tell you to take a job that depended upon tips to make up your income...you chose that job. So, that being said, if you want a tip (yes, any tip) you need to earn it! I want smiles, I want a knowledgeable server, I want you to be friendly to my kids, if free re-fills are included with my drink I want it filled when you see it is empty at the end of the table, I do not want mistakes on my order or forgotten items, I do not want to feel like you just cannot wait to get out of there even if you do! Your tip depends on how well you provided these extras because the tip is extra. The 18% is set as a standard for a good, well served (meaning all the things we as customers have come to expect from table service) meal...it is a guideline for diners who think the wait staff deserves a good tip and yet are unsure what that is, not as a manditory fee for eating out. When you wait on my family, you are being judged from the second we are seated. Everything done or not done increases or decreases your tip. Your attitude increases/decreases your tip. Believe me, I have given above and beyond (Artist Point comes to mind) for a tip and I have left nothing. No one tips me because I got their medical bills paid...that is my job! I get kind of tired of hearing about the poor waitresses and waiters and how people are so cheap because they are not tipping so these people cannot pay their bills...we should not (and I don't) feel sorry for anyone who was able to choose a job, and that should not have any basis for the reason you tip. A tip is for good service...PERIOD.

I understand what the points you are making, and I don't leave much of a tip if the service is truly bad (thank goodness that is extremely rare). However, I consider a fair tip as part of the total cost of my meal -- just average service, nothing more.

The minimum wage in Florida is $6.67/hour. But for tipped employees, it is $6.67 minus $3.02 (which, as required by Florida’s Constitution, is the 2003 tip credit existing under the Fair Labor Standards Act) so that's $3.65 as of January 1, 2007. I don't know if WDW pays more than minimum wage to their servers. It's true that I don't get tipped for just doing my job -- but I get paid a living wage, certainly a lot more than $3.65 an hour. I can't even begin to imagine what it would be like to try to pay bills on that. In the US, a fair gratuity is part of the server's basic wage. I know that might seem wrong -- many people feel tips are optional, and equate TIP with To Insure Promptness, but that's not where the word came from. It's probably from the Torah "Nosen lo girumov (Give to him a tip)", literally, throw in a little extra, a little more than the precise amount someone deserves.

In other countries, tipping is often not the custom -- but service fees are automatically added on to bills, and/or workers are paid a higher minimum wage. The cost for a restaurant meal is proportionately higher to cover these things. I really wish that restaurants in the US would just pay servers a fair wage, raise the menu costs 15% if necessary to do so, and then if customers wished to tip a little extra for good service, they could do so. But unless that changes...if a server is not unpleasant, takes my order, corrects it if the kitchen gets it wrong, checks once to see if everything is ok and if I need a drink refill, and checks at the end of the meal to see if I want anything else...then they've done their job, and will get a 15% tip. If they are friendly and do anything at all above and beyond that, then they will likely get more.

To mjaclyn: I agree with your points :thumbsup: I'm not positive, but I think what tyandskyesmom was saying is that she has sometimes left no tip for bad service, and she has sometimes given "above and beyond" as she did at Artist Point for excellent service?

[mjaclyn]

Ohhhh OK. :) I think I read that sentence completely wrong.

[Willowwind]

When was Disney a no tipping zone? Disney TS restaurants have had tipping for as long as I have been going to WDW, since 1981. At some places, the tips were included in the bill, but not all. We've always tipped. We've usually had good service.

Oh god, don't ask me the year! This is a childhood memory of mine though so I'd say probably the mid to late 70's and earlier. I can remember my aunt would trying to tip someone at the hotel and she was told that they weren't allowed to accept them. I'm not sure if we were eating or if it was a bell service, I just remember the guy's reply that it wasn't allowed.

It sounds like the tipping has really improved for the servers since DDP has come about.

[bicker]

Some people here have said that they think service is suffering because of the DDP.Service is suffering because the labor market is very tight, and there really isn't much money to be made doing a superlative job as a restaurant server.


Do you think that this is directly related to a lack of tips? Pretty much the opposite.


I know that Disney says a gratuity is included in the price, does anyone know how much of it the servers see?For the Disney-owned restaurants, CMs get 100% of the 18% gratuity. None of it is kept as restaurant revenue.


Once upon a time Disney was a " no tipping zone".Not in my experience.


I have to wonder if that frame of mind effects what the wait staff is getting in their pay checks.The biggest factor on the wait staff's pay checks is how much we guests are willing to pay for service, regardless of how that money gets from us to them.


If that is the case, is there anything that we as customers can do to help ensure legendary service?Reward great service. Demonstrate through actions that you're willing to pay a premium for better service. Make it worth service providers' time and effort to do a better job.


How does one encourage a server to "care" about their table without insulting them?This is something that needs to be addressed with a long-term view, rather than focused on your own personal experience.

[bicker]

Hmm I'm sure the servers have mixed emotions but here is the question do they get 18% of what an OOP customer would pay or do they get 18% of the $24.50 allocated by the DDP?For Disney-owned restaurants, service staff gets 18% of what is ordered. Some, but not all, of the NON-Disney-owned restaurants work it out the other way.

[bicker]

SThe tip, as I see it, is not given just because I chose to eat at your establishment and got seated at your table but is given for service above and beyond.That's a mistake. The cost of service in US restaurants is split, with the principal responsibility on the diner. A 15% gratuity is expected for "good" service. For "service above and beyond" you may want to tip more, but for "good" service 15% is part of the diner's moral obligation.


I am already paying to eat there and part of eating there is being served.As indicated above, the vast majority of "being served" is intentionally, as a matter of cultural norms, covered by the expected 15% gratuity. A very small percentage of the cost of service is included in the price you pay for your meal.

[bicker]

The DDP has increased tip income for Disney servers, in some cases dramatically.I've read similar reports.

I think the magic number for the IRS is 10%Actually, last time I checked, it was 8% of sales receipts. Anything less than that and they must provide documentary proof, and of course violating that amount is a red-flag to the IRS, so indeed could cause an audit.


Just since I've been made aware of this, I've stopped charging tips to my credit card and started carrying cash to tip my servers so they can decide for themselves how much they want to declare.For the same reason I always charge tips to my credit card. You don't get to "decide" how much of your income to declare. You must declare all your income, and pay tax on all of it. The IRS estimates in 2001 that $345 Billion in taxes was unpaid, mostly due to underreporting of income. That's $345 Billion dollars that the rest of us had to kick in, because we were honest. I don't think we're doing anyone any favors when we help people be dishonest, while we're effectively hurting no one when we don't.

[mjaclyn]

You don't get to "decide" how much of your income to declare. You must declare all your income, and pay tax on all of it. The IRS estimates in 2001 that $345 Billion in taxes was unpaid, mostly due to underreporting of income. That's $345 Billion dollars that the rest of us had to kick in, because we were honest. I don't think we're doing anyone any favors when we help people be dishonest, while we're effectively hurting no one when we don't.

:ditto:

[Katiebell]

IFor the same reason I always charge tips to my credit card. You don't get to "decide" how much of your income to declare. You must declare all your income, and pay tax on all of it. The IRS estimates in 2001 that $345 Billion in taxes was unpaid, mostly due to underreporting of income. That's $345 Billion dollars that the rest of us had to kick in, because we were honest. I don't think we're doing anyone any favors when we help people be dishonest, while we're effectively hurting no one when we don't.

OK, point taken. But I'm refusing to pay taxes for any more bombs or politician's salaries -- only for school lunch programs, community colleges, homeless shelters, and national parks. :humph:

Oh, wait...I don't get to choose how the government spends my tax dollars? Rats. :(

Well, the 18% gratuity for the DDP will be on the servers' paychecks, the IRS will get their cut, and it will be a benefit to the servers' take home pay -- everyone will be happy. And if they are really wonderful, I'll tip them a little extra in cash, and I will trust that they'll do the right thing. :D Or maybe I'll just give them cookies. I'll send the IRS some chocolate chips -- they can make their own darn cookies.

[tyandskyesmom]

If a tip is for good service, as you said, why wouldn't you leave one at Artist Point even though you admit service was above and beyond'? That, IMHO is very rude. You should definitely tip for good service. As for the rest, it may be the job they chose, but at least in the USA a lot of people take that job FOR the tips. Waiters / waitresses don't make minimum wage. They only make like $2.40 per hour or something - definitely not enough to survive on without tips. Tipping, in my opinion, is PART of the job - so I always leave somthing even if the service was terrible. It's part of eating out.

Yes, you misunderstood...

We tiped above and beyond for our awesome service and exceptionally friendly and competent waiter at Artist Point!

And as far as the rest, we'll just have to agree to disagree because you can throw as many numbers at me as you want, I am not taking the financial woes of the wait staff into consideration when I choose to dine out. I consider mine and mine alone....I work too hard for my money at a job I chose to not include tips as part of my income (because to tell you the truth, based upon my intrepretation of tipping, I probably would not make that much! LOL) to worry about my waiter's financial status.

Now, I may sound like the bad guy but look at it this way...if you accept a job as a waiter and expect that part of the income is based on the tips you receive (as many of you have tried to give figures on) then another part of your job is to be friendly, efficient and friendly. If you do all that, then you have nothing to worry about at my table...that is all I ask. So basically, do your job and I'll gladly make up that portion of your income from my table but if you don't (and we're not stupid, we understand there are some things the waiter cannot control but if they handle it at our table competently, efficiently, and friendly that's all good enough!) don't expect me to go out of my way to help you out. I think that's fair! If the restauraunt business assumes that the customer will carry the payroll to an extent then I'd rather you hike up the prices and pay your people more and then I will be able to judge for myself if that's somewhere I will frequent or not. Otherwise, I am basing tip on service.

[mdricks]

First off, I paid my way through college tending bar and waiting tables. My family is a restaurant family and many members of my family still work in the industry.

A server, who at the end of the day, actually gets %18 of the total combined bills is a ROCK STAR. In my experience the average is much less around 10%. In my day I started clearing around 18% only after working somewhere for 4years and doing the vast majority of my service for regulars who asked for me by name.

The moral I guess is that a service job at Disney with a guarantee of %18 and a table turn rate of 4 or 5 per shift is a dream come true.

That being said, there is no excuse for poor service because Disney should take it upon themselves to insure only the best get those jobs. If you hung out a sign that guaranteed %18 you would have a line of applicants around the block. By making that guaranty Disney has taken it upon themselves (IMHO) to insure that only the cream of the crop get the gigs.

Now that being said.....the talent pool is only so deep. At some point you run out of really talented people and you are left with the less skilled or experienced. You put those people in places that will do less damage and keep your fingers crossed.

At some point you reach the level where you have servers that care less about the table and more about the time clock, the 18% only makes matters worse. Hopefully skilled management finds these people quickly and gets them out of the TS biz.

But then you get into questions about “skilled management” and the front of the house which is a monster for a different post………